13:04:31 RRSAgent has joined #webtv 13:04:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/11-webtv-irc 13:04:39 Present: Clarke, Kaz, Mark, Giridhar, Giuseppe, Daniel, Bin, Pierre, Igarashi 13:04:44 Chair: Clarke 13:04:47 Scribe: Mark 13:05:26 clarke: Kaz created a graph for his action item. Kaz will explain. 13:05:41 -> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Testing/survey-results#Graph_generated_using_the_above_results 13:06:03 kaz: I put the graph on the wiki. the graph includes all 53 results from the surveys. 13:06:30 ... The color represents the category of each spec. 13:06:53 ... The color is described in the key below the graph. 13:07:19 ... External survey on X axis, internal survey is Y axis. 13:07:31 +CyrilRa 13:07:33 --- Most important is upper right 13:08:00 CyrilRa has joined #webtv 13:08:02 i/clarke:/topic: Graph of survey results/ 13:08:20 CyrilRa has left #webtv 13:08:57 scribenick: giuseppep 13:09:05 scribe: giuseppep 13:09:30 mark: the teting group now has a TV profile, that came for me as a temporary input waiting for this group to finilize his work 13:09:31 CyrilRa has joined #webtv 13:09:42 s/teting/testing/ 13:09:57 ... we now need to provide something similar, that replace what they have 13:10:02 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-web-and-tv/2013Sep/0000.html 13:10:24 ... if we give them this set of data they would have to do this work 13:10:25 s/his work/this work/ 13:10:43 rrsagent, make log public 13:10:48 scribe: mark 13:10:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:10:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/11-webtv-minutes.html kaz 13:11:08 giuseppe: we are mixing some internal and external list info, FYI 13:11:22 s/tthis work/this work/ 13:11:29 s/ his work/ this work/ 13:11:52 giuseppe: I agree we need to generate a profile, but I think a ranking is more useful than a threshold binary decision 13:11:58 i/Kaz created/scribenick: Mark_Vic_/ 13:12:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:12:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/11-webtv-minutes.html kaz 13:12:49 i/scribe: mark/scribenick: Mark_Vic_/ 13:12:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:12:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/11-webtv-minutes.html kaz 13:13:05 clarke: Agree that it's more useful to have a ranking, but also useful to have a threshold to get a first list 13:14:00 giuseppe: i think we should supply all this data to the testing group, and they can decide what to do. 13:14:42 giuseppe: The coremob list was more from the app POV, whereas the TV list was more regarding devices POV 13:17:25 clarke: does everyone agree with that? [no disagreements] 13:18:50 clarke: we could try more than one approach and compare & decide 13:19:23 clarke: I'd like volunteers to provide columns of priorities 13:20:09 clarke: Clarke & Mark Vickers volunteered to make ranking & threshold columns 13:20:35 giuseppe: do we also include the graph? 13:20:51 clarke: yes [no one disagreed] 13:21:25 giuseppe: so the final result will be a ranking, a threshold and the graph [no one disagreed] 13:22:40 giuseppe: In answer to question on the list, we should send it to Tobie's testing coordination group. 13:23:42 clarke: so, we send to tobie directly & let him distribute from there 13:24:08 clarke: Moving to the paragraph (which is on GoToMeeting now) 13:24:37 i/clarke: Moving/Introductory text/ 13:24:47 giuseppe: change name. take name from wiki or address to tobie 13:24:55 s/Introductory text/topic: Introductory text/ 13:25:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:25:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/11-webtv-minutes.html kaz 13:25:33 giuseppe: second, also explain that this is different from the coremob profile in that it is focused on devices and not applications 13:27:08 q+ 13:27:11 i|clarke: Moving|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-web-and-tv/2013Sep/0001.html Clarke's generated text (Member only)| 13:27:14 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:27:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/11-webtv-minutes.html kaz 13:27:19 giuseppe: mobile was definitely focussed on applications 13:27:20 q? 13:27:52 zakim, who is here? 13:27:52 On the phone I see Clarke, Kazuyuki, Mark_Vickers, gmandyam, giuseppe, ddavis, Bin_Hu, pal, Igarashi, CyrilRa 13:27:54 On IRC I see CyrilRa, RRSAgent, Mark_Vic_, pal, giuseppep, Bin_Hu, gmandyam, ddavis, igarashi, kaz, Clarke, Zakim, timeless, trackbot 13:28:14 q- 13:28:18 Present+ Cyril 13:28:25 Meeting: Web and TV IG - Testing TF call 13:28:45 mav: suggest we explain where data is from but not characterize as device vs. app 13:29:05 clarke: any suggestion on where to publish this? 13:29:15 ddavis: I'll ask tobie 13:29:45 ACTION: ddavis to ask tobie about how/where to publish testing coverage list 13:29:45 Created ACTION-142 - Ask tobie about how/where to publish testing coverage list [on Daniel Davis - due 2013-09-18]. 13:30:01 topic: Requirements document 13:30:02 clarke: giuseppe, do you want to discuss your comments next? 13:30:28 clarke: the comments are grouped into categories 13:31:02 Req. Document: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1zY5_C0ZK4_Z2_WMSf2MSu5pBI8tNAgmL2o-Ua_rv1Jg/edit?pli=1#heading=h.raug22jjh5xz 13:31:19 giuseppe: First comment: Descriptions needed. 13:31:22 clarke: agree 13:31:59 kaz has joined #webtv 13:32:13 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:32:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/11-webtv-minutes.html kaz 13:33:00 giuseppe: About requirements themselves, one thing missing: Do we need the result to be machine readable? Do we need the results to be tamper-proof? 13:33:12 clarke: I'll add that 13:34:12 giuseppe: Some of my comments may be resolved when descriptions are added, so I'll hold off on those 13:34:46 giusppe: Also, not sure why we distinguish general requirements from specific use case requirements 13:35:21 clarke: This just reflects how the requirements were derived, but not sure that evolutionary info is useful in the final report 13:35:39 clarke: In general, I welcome comments on how this report whould be delivered 13:36:42 giuseppe: I feel one general requirement is more useful than the specific/general categories. 13:37:33 giuseppe: For example, there is duplication between the two lists. 13:38:21 giuseppe: On the performance requirements: some may be different for different groups. Should the requirements target which group it is for? 13:38:48 clarke: I like pointing groups at particular requirements 13:39:35 giuseppe: we alos need to be specific what we want from each group. 13:40:18 giuseppe: After the first part of use case requirements, we jump to specific spec requirements (e.g. EME) 13:40:42 giuseppe: It's not clear to me why we have specific requirements for some specs andnot others 13:41:19 s/andnot/and not/ 13:41:20 giuseppe: we also have specific spec requirements for specs that aren't in the priority table (e.g. NSD spec) 13:41:36 clarke: table mostly published specs 13:42:20 giuseppe: Need to explain this in the document. explain why we picked certain specs in ranking. 13:43:12 q+ 13:43:54 giuseppe: for example, the section on specific specs could say: "We're monitoring these specs in development and here are some additional testing requirements..." 13:44:03 q? 13:46:13 bin: If we submit the doc to specific groups, it's clear what we want, but what do we want from tobie's group 13:46:23 q+ to ask if we want to invite Tobie to this call itself (maybe next time?) 13:46:24 TO- kaz - Yes - do they not honor the Zakim queue in this grou? 13:46:53 giuseppe: We want tobie to update the TV mandatory spec list and also use the ranking as needed 13:47:18 q? 13:47:51 (apologize for jumping the queue.) 13:48:43 igarashi has joined #webtv 13:49:03 ack gmandyam 13:49:59 gmandyam: I was in the coremob group and part of the problem was that the specification list wasn't as useful without performance levels. 13:51:21 gmandyam: for example, MSE is an example of a requirement that may not work at the JavaScript performance level in mobile devices. So, are we going to address performance level. 13:51:43 Thanks for summarizing - Mark 13:52:17 giuseppe: I tried to add a general need for performance, but perhaps we also need to address it at the specific spec level, e.g. CSS animation 13:52:42 giuseppe: Of course, performnace spec would require a standard way to test performance 13:53:06 clarke: Is performance level a spec issue or a market issue 13:54:06 gmandyam: My point is that if you're just specifying functionality without performance, you're not doing a full service. Is performance in scope? 13:54:39 q+ 13:54:42 clarke: The group never addressed performance as a scope issue one way or the other 13:54:53 giuseppe: I think we need to address performance 13:55:12 clarke: My hesitation is that performance specs can get very complex 13:56:07 q? 13:56:18 giuseppe: Not sure we need to provide the benchmarks in this group, perhaps just highlight which specs need performance testing and work with the specific working groups on develping performace tests 13:56:28 clarke: running out o f time 13:56:42 clarke: suggest taking performance issue to email list 13:57:01 clarke: we have a number of specific action items on the document 13:57:36 -ddavis 13:57:46 clarke: I'll add action items as formal action items 13:57:55 ack kaz 13:57:55 kaz, you wanted to ask if we want to invite Tobie to this call itself (maybe next time?) 13:58:48 kaz: seems we need even more collaboration with tobie's team, so why not have a joint meeting by phone and/or a joint F2F at TPAC? 13:58:49 ack bin 13:59:05 clarke: clarke & kaz will follow up on joint meetings 13:59:17 http://www.principledtechnologies.com/benchmarkxprt/webxprt/ 13:59:34 bin: Not sure performance is priority of any w3C group now. 14:00:15 bin: there is an external group (link above) that is providing performance test info 14:01:20 gmanyam: decision to deprioritize performance is tobie's decision. I have provided a performance tool that could be used to tobie. 14:01:35 giuseppe: [unintelligible audio] 14:01:44 -gmandyam 14:01:48 -CyrilRa 14:01:49 -giuseppe 14:01:50 Thanks for scribing, Mark 14:01:51 clarke: Let's continue discussion on mail list 14:01:51 -Bin_Hu 14:01:53 -Kazuyuki 14:01:55 -Igarashi 14:01:57 -Clarke 14:01:59 clarke: meeting adjourned 14:02:09 -Mark_Vickers 14:02:11 Kaz, can I send you action items I captured to make sure they get in the notes? 14:02:18 kaz has joined #webtv 14:02:30 [ adjourned ] 14:02:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:02:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/11-webtv-minutes.html kaz 14:03:24 thx kaz 14:03:52 kaz has joined #webtv 14:35:01 disconnecting the lone participant, pal, in UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM 14:35:02 UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has ended 14:35:02 Attendees were +1.303.730.aaaa, Kazuyuki, Mark_Vickers, Clarke, gmandyam, giuseppe, ddavis, Bin_Hu, pal, Igarashi, CyrilRa 15:38:17 kaz has joined #webtv 16:03:33 kaz has joined #webtv 16:12:33 kaz has joined #webtv 16:14:33 kaz has joined #webtv 16:15:10 kaz has joined #webtv