13:30:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:30:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-rd-irc
13:30:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:30:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
13:30:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:30:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start now
13:30:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:30:10 <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2013
13:30:36 <shadi> zakim, this rd
13:30:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this rd', shadi
13:30:41 <shadi> zakim, this is rd
13:30:41 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_RDWG()9:30AM
13:30:49 <Zakim> +Markku
13:30:59 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:30:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P11, [IPcaller], Markku
13:31:06 <Vivienne> zakim, IPcaller is me
13:31:06 <Zakim> +Vivienne; got it
13:31:31 <Yehya> Yehya has joined #rd
13:31:33 <silvia_mirri> silvia_mirri has joined #rd
13:31:39 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:31:51 <silvia_mirri> zakim, IPcaller is me
13:31:51 <Zakim> +silvia_mirri; got it
13:31:55 <Zakim> +Shadi
13:32:11 <silvia_mirri> zakim, mute me
13:32:11 <Zakim> silvia_mirri should now be muted
13:32:41 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:32:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P11, Vivienne, Markku, silvia_mirri (muted), Shadi
13:32:49 <Zakim> +[Fraunhofer]
13:32:51 <christos> christos has joined #rd
13:33:15 <Klaus> zakim,??P11 is me
13:33:15 <Zakim> +Klaus; got it
13:33:38 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
13:33:38 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
13:34:29 <Zakim> +??P33
13:34:39 <shadi> Chair: Abou-Zahra_Shadi
13:34:40 <shadi> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:34:40 <shadi> Agenda+ Next Topic Discussion [justin, silvia]
13:34:40 <shadi> Agenda+ Alternate Weekly Research - Accreditation of Websites for
13:34:40 <shadi> Accessibility - Target 11 Sept 2013 [vivienne]
13:34:40 <shadi> Agenda+ Symposia Timeline http://goo.gl/xK4euz [sharper]
13:34:42 <shadi> Agenda+ PENDING  - Draft Charter http://goo.gl/Dz0nct  [shadi]
13:34:43 <christos> zakim, ??P33 is me
13:34:43 <Zakim> +christos; got it
13:34:44 <shadi> Agenda+ PENDING  - Metrics W3C Note Status  [shadi]
13:34:46 <shadi> Agenda+ PENDING  - Mobile W3C Note Public Release this Week  [shadi]
13:34:50 <shadi> Agenda+ PENDING  - Easy to Read W3C Note Status  [klaus]
13:34:52 <christos> zakim, mute me
13:34:52 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
13:34:52 <shadi> Agenda+ PENDING  - Text Customisation W3C Note Status [shawn/david]
13:34:54 <shadi> Agenda+ PENDING  - User Modelling W3C Note Status [yehya/christos]
13:34:55 <Yehya> zakim, [Fraunhofer] is me
13:34:56 <Zakim> +Yehya; got it
13:34:56 <shadi> Agenda+ PENDING  - Close the Loop on the symposium L&F [shadi]
13:34:58 <shadi> Agenda+ STANDING - Issues and Actions  http://goo.gl/Z7XY3Y [sharper]
13:35:00 <shadi> Agenda+ STANDING - Any Other Business [sharper]
13:35:38 <shadi> scribe: Markku
13:35:59 <shadi> scribenick: mhakkinen
13:36:20 <shadi> zakim, drop agendum 1
13:36:20 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), dropped
13:36:23 <shadi> agenda?
13:36:39 <shadi> zakim, take up next
13:36:39 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Next Topic Discussion" taken up [from justin, silvia]
13:36:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:36:46 <Justin> Justin has joined #rd
13:36:56 <silvia_mirri> zakim, unmute me
13:36:56 <Zakim> silvia_mirri should no longer be muted
13:37:02 <mhakkinen> shadi: Next topic discussion. Calls on Justin and Silvia
13:38:11 <mhakkinen> silvia: we propose eLearning Accessibility. Symposium in mid-December.  Will feed the Wiki.  The idea is to have the CFP in a couple of weeks.
13:39:02 <Vivienne> q+
13:39:04 <mhakkinen> shadi: Early announcement would be great.
13:39:53 <mhakkinen> vivienne: concerned about mid-December date.  Perhaps a couple of weeks earlier?
13:40:05 <Justin> +q
13:41:07 <Vivienne> the International day of people with disabilities is December 3
13:41:36 <mhakkinen> silvia: suggests Dec 9
13:41:45 <mhakkinen> justin: also suggests Dec 9
13:41:46 <Vivienne> December 9 sounds great
13:41:50 <mhakkinen> +1
13:41:52 <silvia_mirri> ok!
13:41:58 <Justin> +1
13:41:58 <Klaus> +1
13:42:03 <christos> +1
13:42:10 <Yehya> +1
13:42:17 <silvia_mirri> zakim, mute me
13:42:17 <Zakim> silvia_mirri should now be muted
13:42:18 <mhakkinen> shadi: Dec 9 is the proposed date.
13:42:21 <silvia_mirri> ok!
13:44:25 <mhakkinen> -q vivienne
13:44:36 <mhakkinen> -q justin
13:44:59 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/CfP_Email_Boilerplate
13:45:15 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Template_for_Symposium_Main_Web_Page
13:45:28 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Template_for_CfP_Web_Page
13:46:17 <mhakkinen> shadi: identifying templates for symposium CFP, announcement, and symposium itself.  This is what will be reviewed by the wg and cg.
13:46:38 <shadi> zakim, take up next
13:46:38 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Alternate Weekly Research - Accreditation of Websites for" taken up [from shadi]
13:48:14 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accreditation_Methods
13:48:31 <mhakkinen> shadi: discuss initially as a small group and then potentially bring in external participants.  Look ahead and develop/exchange knowledge for future topics.  First topic is accreditation of Web Sites, proposed by Vivienne.
13:49:27 <mhakkinen> vivienne: focus on history, current practice, and future.  Asks group to take a look.
13:50:09 <Vivienne> Accreditation is closely bounded by accessibility testing. As a result, all the strengths and weaknesses of accessibility testing are inherited by accreditation methods. To name a few weaknesses:
13:50:09 <Vivienne> - The lack of empirical validity on guidelines.
13:50:09 <Vivienne> - The lack of coverage of guidelines. (see the CHI paper by Power et al in 2012)
13:50:09 <Vivienne> - The over-reliance on tools, which perform badly and rely on dubious guidelines (see our W4A paper)
13:50:10 <Vivienne> - The problem of reaching an agreement with manual reviews (see Brajnik et al. HCI journal paper)
13:50:10 <Vivienne> - The problems of sampling (see Brajniks paper of ASSETS 2007 about sampling methods)
13:50:10 <Vivienne> - etc.
13:50:11 <Vivienne> I miss some scientific references in the wiki too.
13:50:42 <mhakkinen> vivienne: markel has provided comments and suggestions. (pasted into IRC)
13:52:12 <mhakkinen> shadi: take a 5 minute reading break to review.
13:52:21 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Accreditation_Methods
13:55:38 <mhakkinen> +q
13:56:13 <shadi> Mark: does accreditation actually ensure usable end-results?
13:57:37 <Klaus> +q
13:58:06 <Klaus> zakim, unmute me
13:58:06 <Zakim> Klaus should no longer be muted
13:58:06 <shadi> ack m
13:58:11 <shadi> ack k
13:58:36 <mhakkinen> vivienne: 4,7,11 may apply to usability. Will try to adjust questions to address.
13:58:42 <mhakkinen> -q mhakkinen
13:59:12 <silvia_mirri> +q
13:59:39 <mhakkinen> klaus: in terms of references.  Other standards, ISO, BS.
13:59:53 <mhakkinen> vivienne: any questions that should be removed?
14:00:05 <Klaus> zakim, mute me
14:00:05 <Zakim> Klaus should now be muted
14:00:07 <shadi> ack s
14:00:12 <mhakkinen> klaus: no.  maybe look at prioritization.
14:00:20 <silvia_mirri> zakim, unmute me
14:00:20 <Zakim> silvia_mirri should no longer be muted
14:01:54 <mhakkinen> silvia: how to certificate the process for site creation?
14:02:35 <mhakkinen> vivienne:  doesn't BS8788 do this?
14:03:22 <mhakkinen> vivienne: is there anything else that addresses process certification?
14:04:44 <shadi> http://www.econformance.eu/
14:04:51 <mhakkinen> shadi: wcag2 conformance section does mention process that can help meet wcag.  you should have a quality assurance process in place.
14:06:47 <mhakkinen> shadi: EU m376 (eu version of 508) addresses some of this.  The question is "what do we really mean by certification?"  post development certification, 3rd party certification.  Or do we want to be broader?  At this stage, we need to decide on the focus, whether on post dev 3rd party certification vs the broader view.
14:07:02 <silvia_mirri> zakim, mute me
14:07:02 <Zakim> silvia_mirri should now be muted
14:07:14 <shadi> s/addresses/researched
14:07:40 <mhakkinen> vivienne:  we only have an hour, and though would like the broader view, we should focus on the 3rd party accreditation.
14:08:09 <mhakkinen> shadi: intro should be clear on focus.
14:08:35 <mhakkinen> vivienne: will adjust intro to indicate the hour session will focus on 3rd party accreditation.
14:11:08 <mhakkinen> shadi: questions needs to be clear as to focus.  self declaration vs 3rd party.  Think there are some papers on this topic.
14:11:31 <mhakkinen> vivienne: yes, research from UK.
14:12:09 <mhakkinen> shadi: might be work out there that we are not aware of.
14:13:32 <mhakkinen> vivienne: will add suzette keith (middlesex u) research.
14:16:42 <mhakkinen> shadi: questions related to W3C and WAI on accreditation (17-19) should probably state 3rd party accreditation.
14:17:52 <mhakkinen> shadi: any other questions?  This is a good topic.
14:18:11 <mhakkinen> vivienne:  invite judy and shawn to discussion?
14:20:32 <mhakkinen> shadi: shawn is a member of the group.  maybe important to invite others, not just judy.  be considerate of scheduling.  clear on who we invite and why we think their participation is important.
14:21:10 <mhakkinen> vivienne: vivienne will send invite to judy.
14:24:03 <mhakkinen> mhakkinen: edupub workshop http://idpf.org/edupub-2013
14:24:13 <silvia_mirri> thank you
14:24:16 <shadi> agenda?
14:24:21 <Zakim> -Markku
14:25:02 <shadi> zakim, take up next
14:25:02 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Symposia Timeline http://goo.gl/xK4euz" taken up [from sharper]
14:25:09 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/Symposium_Timeline_Calculator
14:25:50 <Vivienne> q+
14:26:43 <shadi> scribe: shadi
14:27:13 <silvia_mirri> yes, you are right
14:28:07 <silvia_mirri> it would be fine
14:28:08 <shadi> shadi: suggest to look closely at the timeline, especially the time between review feedback and final papers
14:28:24 <shadi> Vivienne: also 12 weeks is already next week!
14:28:27 <Justin> we'll be right mate
14:28:55 <christos> zakim, ack me
14:28:55 <Zakim> unmuting christos
14:28:57 <Zakim> I see Vivienne on the speaker queue
14:28:59 <shadi> zakim, take up agendum 10
14:28:59 <Zakim> agendum 10. "PENDING  - User Modelling W3C Note Status" taken up [from yehya/christos via shadi]
14:29:21 <shadi> Yehya: transcript was published and authors were notified
14:30:11 <Zakim> -silvia_mirri
14:30:22 <shadi> ...preparing Editor Draft for end-September as agreed
14:32:05 <silvia_mirri> sorry, having troubles with the phone, trying to fix quickly!
14:33:41 <Vivienne> bye
14:33:43 <Zakim> -Yehya
14:33:45 <christos> goodbye
14:33:46 <Klaus> thanks bye
14:33:46 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:33:48 <Zakim> -Vivienne
14:34:02 <Zakim> -Klaus
14:34:07 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:39:07 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, christos, in WAI_RDWG()9:30AM
14:39:09 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:39:09 <Zakim> Attendees were Markku, Vivienne, silvia_mirri, Shadi, Klaus, christos, Yehya, [IPcaller]
16:20:00 <shadi> regrets: Simon, Annika, Giorgio, Markel, David, Peter. Luz
16:20:02 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
16:20:02 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:20:02 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:20:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:20:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/04-rd-minutes.html trackbot
16:20:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:20:11 <RRSAgent> I see no action items