15:01:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:01:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/09/03-dpub-irc
15:01:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:01:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:01:06 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM already started
15:01:07 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:01:07 <trackbot> Date: 03 September 2013
15:01:07 <fjh> zakim, code?
15:01:08 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
15:01:28 <azaroth> scribe: azaroth
15:01:35 <karen> +1
15:02:07 <Zakim> + +1.650.404.aaee
15:02:14 <Zakim> + +44.797.077.aaff
15:02:24 <duga> zakim, aaee is duga
15:02:24 <Zakim> +duga; got it
15:02:32 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:32 <Zakim> -duga
15:02:33 <karen> zakim, aaff is Madi
15:02:33 <Zakim> +Madi; got it
15:02:37 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #dpub
15:02:40 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:02:40 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
15:02:44 <mgylling> scribe: azaroth
15:02:46 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
15:03:12 <Zakim> +duga
15:03:26 <mgylling> regrets: George Kerscher, Ivan Herman
15:03:34 <mgylling> Zakim, who is here?
15:03:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see +44.787.962.aaaa, +1.505.667.aabb, +46.7.06.02.aacc, +1.201.748.aadd, Karen_Myers, Madi, fjh, duga
15:03:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see mgylling, RRSAgent, duga, Zakim, karen, madi, azaroth, tzviya, fjh, GeorgeWalkley, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro
15:03:39 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
15:03:46 <Zakim> +??P34
15:03:55 <Sharad> Sharad has joined #DPUB
15:03:56 <azaroth> zakim, aabb is azaroth
15:03:56 <Zakim> +Bert
15:03:56 <Zakim> +azaroth; got it
15:04:05 <mgylling> Zakim, aaaa is GeorgeWalkley
15:04:05 <Zakim> +GeorgeWalkley; got it
15:04:33 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #dpub
15:04:44 <mgylling> Zakim, aacc is mgylling
15:04:45 <Zakim> +mgylling; got it
15:04:45 <Zakim> + +1.503.456.aagg
15:04:58 <mgylling> Zakim, aadd is Tzviya
15:04:58 <Zakim> +Tzviya; got it
15:05:04 <tmichel> zakim, who is here ?
15:05:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see GeorgeWalkley, azaroth, mgylling, Tzviya, Karen_Myers, Madi, fjh, duga, ??P34, Bert, +1.503.456.aagg
15:05:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see tmichel, Sharad, Bert, mgylling, RRSAgent, duga, Zakim, karen, madi, azaroth, tzviya, fjh, GeorgeWalkley, ivan, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro
15:05:26 <mgylling> Zakim, aagg is Sharad
15:05:27 <Zakim> +Sharad; got it
15:05:54 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:05:54 <Zakim> On the phone I see GeorgeWalkley, azaroth, mgylling, Tzviya, Karen_Myers, Madi, fjh, duga, ??P34, Bert, Sharad
15:05:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see tmichel, Sharad, Bert, mgylling, RRSAgent, duga, Zakim, karen, madi, azaroth, tzviya, fjh, GeorgeWalkley, liam, plinss, trackbot, sandro
15:06:12 <tmichel> zakim, P34 is me
15:06:12 <Zakim> sorry, tmichel, I do not recognize a party named 'P34'
15:06:33 <azaroth> Can we have a volunteer at this stage to scribe while we're discussing the annotation use cases?
15:06:42 <Zakim> +plinss
15:06:54 <tmichel> zakim, ??P34 is me
15:06:55 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
15:07:24 <tmichel> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Sep/0000.html
15:07:28 <azaroth> Markus: Agenda is as we expect it.  Reviewing use cases from the wiki as the main activity. Either new or ones becoming accepted.
15:08:03 <azaroth> ... First about logistics.  Been asked to mention again TPAC again in China in November.  Will be having a work session and also intent to start outreach to other WGs.  If you can attend you should, if you will then you need to register ASAP
15:08:16 <azaroth> ... The reason we are pushing is that visas take time to get.
15:08:32 <azaroth> ... Next, new members. We have George_walkley from Hachette.
15:09:19 <azaroth> GeorgeWalkley: I am the head of digital for Hachette in the UK and commonwealth.  Am responisble for ebooks and other products. SIt on a number of industry standards, chair of UK publishers association digital group that represents most UK publishers.
15:10:03 <azaroth> ... nominated as rep for Hachette globally on this group. Particular areas of interest are interactivity, especially for assessments, and to an extent comics and manga.
15:10:42 <azaroth> Markus:  Thank you George.  The other participant from Hachette is ??? from Paris. He said over email that he has a constant issue with this time/day.
15:10:55 <naitik> naitik has joined #dpub
15:11:08 <azaroth> George:  Will talk with Pierre so hope to represent him when he can't make it
15:11:14 <azaroth> s/???/Pierre/
15:11:46 <azaroth> Markus:  Not the only person to have the timing issue, up to 4 or 5 people, so wondering if we should do a poll to find a better slot.
15:12:12 <azaroth> Theirry: Fine to organize a new time if necessary if we can find a better slot, not easy given global distribution
15:12:24 <azaroth> Markus:  Thierry takes care of a new doodle, including existing day and time.
15:12:41 <azaroth> ... Any suggestions for time/day other than this?  Or just looking at new day?
15:12:49 <azaroth> (tumbleweed)
15:12:54 <tmichel> ACTION thierry to raganize a doodle with new timing, and keeping the existing one.
15:12:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-5 - Raganize a doodle with new timing, and keeping the existing one. [on Thierry Michel - due 2013-09-10].
15:13:04 <azaroth> Brady: Any time other than this is good, as always on a bus
15:13:20 <azaroth> ... 2pm Pacific in IDPF is normally good
15:13:56 <azaroth> Markus:  Very late in Europe, and have a fair number.  Thierry perhaps we could give an alternate time?
15:14:12 <azaroth> fjh: becomes very early in pacific/mountain
15:14:13 <tmichel> any proposal on another slot and day ?
15:14:31 <tmichel> push 2 or three hours ahead ?
15:14:52 <azaroth> Markus:  Would be better in Pacific, so might get better silicon valley attendance
15:14:59 <tmichel> later in europe and of course in California
15:15:04 <tmichel> add an option two hours latter
15:15:05 <azaroth> ... Theirry please add an option for two hours later and we'll see what preferences are
15:15:18 <azaroth> Theirry: that means keeping the same day, or try another day?
15:15:29 <azaroth> Markus:  This time and 2 hours later, every day, so 10 options
15:15:56 <tmichel> 10 options 2 hours latter and current slot every day ...
15:15:57 <azaroth> ... Moving on....
15:16:10 <azaroth> Regrets from a lot of people next week.
15:16:18 <mgylling> regrets: Bill Kasdorf
15:16:41 <azaroth> ... Thierry, can I add multiple regrets, or will it overwrite? There's a meeting with US publishers next week, including myself, so a heads-up that many people will be absent
15:16:42 <fjh> regrets for 17 Sept (in two weeks)
15:16:56 <tmichel> regrets also from Markus next week
15:17:05 <azaroth> ... I suggest we still hold the meeting, unless it doesn't work for you
15:17:12 <tmichel> Keep the meeting next week with Madi chairing
15:17:25 <azaroth> Madi: Okay, but nervious as first meeting chaired
15:17:54 <azaroth> Markus:  How to best funnel requirements from EPUB implementation back to here? How to represent future requests and visions present there
15:18:00 <azaroth> Madi: Have a slide calling for use cases in my presentation
15:18:08 <azaroth> Markus:  With some luck can also get new members
15:18:34 <azaroth> ... Great, Use cases... in order to recap, the activity is all happening on the wiki. George if you don't have a link ...
15:18:38 <azaroth> George: I have it
15:19:10 <azaroth> Markus:  We've laid out things to get started to hone in on a few topics. Those are annotation, which Rob Sanderson is heading up, MathML which JeanKaplansky is working on
15:19:23 <tmichel> refer to http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Template
15:19:30 <azaroth> ... those are the two areas with activity.  I've been scouting for requirements for pagination, Have a lead so hope to get going there as well
15:19:52 <tmichel> and directory http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory
15:19:54 <azaroth> ... That said and remains true for all of us, if there's a particular domain existing or new that you want to work on, it's very welcome to do that
15:20:31 <azaroth> ... There's no prohibitions to working on it, in any state, don't need to seek a blessing. Just putting everything that's added as NEW and will take it through review to get it finalized. Can reject things that are out of scope or insignificant
15:20:44 <azaroth> ... if you have time to spare and expertise, the wiki is your friend.
15:21:20 <azaroth> ... Looking at recent changes, I can tell that last week's requests to refine MathML and structural semantics not done yet, but new ones for annotation from Rob
15:21:32 <azaroth> ... In order to stick with scheme, my suggestion is that we review the new ones
15:21:42 <azaroth> ... before we start, a new scribe?
15:21:51 <karen> scribenick: Karen
15:22:05 <karen> Rob: I put up four new use cases
15:22:12 <karen> ...all of which are reasonably straight forward
15:22:16 <karen> ...first one is reading position
15:22:23 <karen> ...using social reading side of things
15:22:36 <karen> ...there are systems out there that allow you to share where you are in a given publication
15:22:43 <karen> ...with book club, class, yourself
15:22:51 <karen> ...works across multiple devices
15:22:58 <karen> ...so you don't have to rebook mark
15:23:06 <karen> ...also more inclusive W3C groups
15:23:41 <karen> Markus: any questions or comments on first one?
15:24:18 <karen> ...only way to reuse on another device is if you purchase from that vendor
15:24:26 <karen> ...so this book marking is a critical piece
15:24:33 <karen> ...to exchange that data between different vendors
15:24:58 <karen> Rob: second one is highlighting a span of text
15:24:58 <tmichel> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Anno_Specific_2
15:25:05 <karen> ...user wants to highlight for interest
15:25:15 <karen> ...no annotation, just here is some bit of text that is important
15:25:21 <karen> ...this use case does not say how it is to be done
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15:25:32 <karen> ...could change background color, make it bold
15:25:39 <karen> ...another use case describes an approach
15:25:49 <karen> ...need a two points in the range to be highlighted
15:25:54 <karen> ...want to be able to share this piece
15:25:59 <karen> ...with yourself or group
15:26:07 <karen> ...also commonly supported on ebook platforms but again
15:26:16 <tzviya> q+
15:26:19 <karen> ...as Markus said, no agreed upon way to share interoperably
15:26:20 <brady_duga> q+
15:26:23 <mgylling> ack tzviya
15:26:35 <karen> Tzviya: This might seem obvious
15:26:47 <karen> ...but do we need to spell out that this needs to be saved from use to use?
15:26:50 <karen> Rob: that is a good point
15:26:53 <karen> ...I shall add that
15:27:03 <karen> ...that is a requirement for all the annotation use cases
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15:27:05 <mgylling> ack brady_duga
15:27:06 <karen> ...that's a good one
15:27:14 <karen> Brady: my question is how are @ dynamics shared?
15:27:28 <karen> ...imagine and export mechanism to export annotations to other devices
15:27:33 <karen> ...may be ok one device to another
15:27:46 <karen> ...but if you are reading same book on two different systems, is there a dynamic problem?
15:27:53 <karen> Rob: automatically performed?
15:28:06 <karen> ...for highlighting maybe you don't want it synched across devices
15:28:15 <karen> ...reading position you want to close iPad and read on phone
15:28:24 <karen> ...or another tablet and so you would automatically save that position
15:28:29 <karen> ...is that what you mean?
15:28:35 <karen> Brady: even highlighting, I can see
15:28:53 <karen> ...I want as user to get data I have stored
15:28:57 <karen> ...that is export mechanism
15:29:01 <karen> ...data I own
15:29:12 <karen> ...and I use single player or iBooks
15:29:23 <karen> ...and I want to share my reading system and annotations on different platforms
15:29:37 <karen> Rob: I would propose adding an indirection use case
15:29:45 <karen> ...crosses across social and reading indirection
15:29:52 <karen> ...to distinguish export and synchronization
15:30:12 <karen> Markus: that is a very important distinction, thank you Brady
15:30:23 <karen> ...across systems and vendors is a different animal
15:30:30 <karen> ...involving APIs and discovery of service providers
15:30:42 <karen> ...don't need to worry about implementations now, but what users want and need
15:30:48 <karen> ...queue is empty, please move on
15:30:55 <karen> Rob: third new use case is the same as the previous one
15:31:02 <karen> ...with more than just the highlight
15:31:13 <karen> ...then there is the comment of what it should do
15:31:23 <karen> ...HTML or other format; does it require layout or styling assistance
15:31:27 <karen> ...questions on that one?
15:31:47 <karen> ...Last one is slightly more interesting
15:31:52 <karen> ...Annotating the text of publication
15:32:00 <karen> ...imagine an ebook with images, audio, video
15:32:09 <karen> ...may even wish to comment on the style sheets if you are a developer
15:32:19 <karen> ...a mark, a bug, that makes it not render on a particular platform
15:32:31 <karen> ...requirements are that the embedded sources are targeted with annotations
15:32:38 <karen> ...including the ability to solicit resources
15:32:43 <karen> ...may not be @ directly
15:32:52 <karen> ...I put the non-rendered resources in
15:32:56 <karen> ...to provoke a response
15:33:04 <karen> ...not entirely sure that's within scope or useful
15:33:09 <karen> ...we can certainly look
15:33:19 <karen> Markus: that is a discussion to be had
15:33:25 <karen> ...once we move from new into blessed
15:33:26 <karen> q+
15:33:34 <tzviya> q+
15:33:36 <mgylling> ack karen
15:33:39 <azaroth> Scribe: azaroth
15:33:50 <tobie> tobie has joined #dpub
15:33:51 <azaroth> Karen: Not a technical question but understanding the use case for other content from other industries
15:34:13 <azaroth> .. Also support the web and tv and know they have an annotation group. Not sure what they're doing but you might want to chat with those folks. Sounds similar
15:34:33 <azaroth> Rob:  Please send details will follow up.
15:34:35 <mgylling> ack Tzviya
15:34:40 <karen> ack Tzviya
15:34:53 <karen> Tzviya: I think being able to annotate Javascript is an excellent idea
15:34:56 <azaroth> Tzviya:  Being able to annotate javascript etc is excellent idea, but a new use case
15:34:57 <karen> ...two different use cases
15:34:57 <brady_duga> q+
15:35:00 <karen> ...different users
15:35:08 <karen> ...one targets developers one users
15:35:11 <karen> Rob: yes, good point
15:35:15 <karen> ...I can split that up
15:35:21 <karen> Markus: sounds like good idea to me
15:35:31 <karen> ...easier to split up in the upcoming ranking exercise
15:35:46 <brady_duga> q-
15:35:47 <karen> ...looking at links
15:36:12 <karen> ...at future use cases
15:36:21 <karen> ...how is annotating parts of embedded resources different?
15:36:34 <karen> Rob: I really like this image...you should change this Javascript
15:36:42 <karen> ...or drawing a rectangular or polygon
15:37:00 <karen> ...on an embedded resource rather than entrie resource
15:37:04 <karen> ...change more code
15:37:17 <karen> ...way to do embedded resource and describe
15:37:28 <karen> Markus: one thing associated here is annotation of dynamic object
15:37:32 <karen> ...I know this is one of the issues
15:37:36 <karen> ...in education for example
15:37:45 <karen> ..so the user is basically in a context of half state
15:37:53 <karen> ...quiz with ten steps
15:38:02 <karen> ...and wants to annotate an object in a particular state
15:38:08 <karen> ...that is a really scary thing of course
15:38:12 <karen> ...but comes up from time to time
15:38:16 <karen> ...may be something simpler
15:38:22 <karen> ...or annotate a state in advance for user
15:38:27 <karen> ...so you get a tip from your teacher
15:38:31 <karen> Rob: open annotation model
15:38:36 <karen> ...we have @ state
15:38:42 <karen> ...state of resource in which I was annotating
15:38:48 <karen> ...at the time I was annotating it
15:38:54 <karen> ...focused on things that are only cross domain
15:39:02 <karen> ...only two different ways of describing it
15:39:05 <karen> ...first was at this time
15:39:13 <karen> ...annotated home page on 22 July of 2004
15:39:19 <karen> ...second one is to cover content negotiations
15:39:30 <karen> ...these are the http headers I sent to the resource which I then annotated
15:39:34 <karen> ...use cases that you bring up I'm sure
15:39:42 <karen> ...we would need additional descriptive mechanisms
15:40:01 <karen> ...to say I rotated the 3D model by 25 degrees and rotated it
15:40:13 <karen> Markus: user agent does not know...asking for API
15:40:18 <karen> ...wondering if it would be worth
15:40:22 <karen> ...unless you already have it
15:40:25 <karen> ...whether we should add that one
15:40:31 <karen> ...it's important to education people
15:40:39 <karen> Rob: yes, I shall do that and add the advanced use cases
15:40:42 <karen> Markus: beautiful
15:40:50 <karen> ...thank you a lot Rob for your work so far
15:41:00 <karen> ...apart from this being a good and important set of use cases
15:41:13 <karen> ...is that this set of our collection can serve as a role model for the upcoming areas to work on
15:41:18 <karen> ...good to have something complete soon
15:41:22 <karen> ...and be reading for blessing
15:41:29 <karen> ...then we can use this as a basis to help others
15:41:34 <karen> Rob: you are welcome
15:41:38 <karen> Markus: Great
15:41:45 <karen> Scribenick: Rob
15:42:05 <azaroth> Markus: Moving on, we've had no edits to existing use cases, so nothing to discuss there.
15:42:36 <azaroth> ... Next agenda is upcoming focus areas and steps.  We decided to start with anno, pagination and mathml, but there's nothing to stop us looking for people to drive activity in other areas
15:42:52 <azaroth> ... I'd like to ask if there are any suggestions or offers from anyone to start working on a new area?
15:43:20 <azaroth> Madi:  I'm planning to work to pinpoint key folks in Pearson to fill out use cases, one on the structural html5 use case
15:43:24 <Zakim> -duga
15:43:27 <azaroth> ... probably another one regarding accessibility
15:43:31 <tzviya> I've been doing more research around structural semantics as well
15:43:42 <azaroth> ... Would like to get started on one, as there are many
15:43:45 <tzviya> q+
15:44:18 <Zakim> +duga
15:44:23 <azaroth> Markus:  Soudns great. When it comes to structuring, Tziva has added one requirement on sturcutral semantics on the directory page which talks about ... inflecting additional structural semantics on existing html
15:44:39 <azaroth> ... this is a big area which I expect will generate lots of discussion, where this is needed and why, how to do it best
15:44:42 <azaroth> ... definitely welcome
15:44:49 <mgylling> ack duga
15:44:53 <Zakim> -duga
15:45:01 <mgylling> ack tzviya
15:45:10 <brady_duga> That was just me dropping in and out - sorry
15:45:26 <azaroth> Tzivya: Also been doing work with accessibility, hope to have additional use cases. Also structural semantics.
15:45:51 <azaroth> Markus: Great.  Other low hanging fruit is indexes from glossaries, dictionaries, etc. Reading systems want to use the data in them.
15:46:02 <Zakim> +duga
15:46:07 <mgylling> ack duga
15:47:00 <azaroth> ... At this point unless there's offers to get going?  It doesn't make sense to kick off an area without a lead.  There's a few of us who will have more time after next week, so hope to have more contributions coming in a coule of weeks in order to not lose speed
15:47:24 <azaroth> ... I think that's basically it for today. any other business items? Comments from anyone?
15:47:42 <azaroth> ... Okay, good. We thank Rob for scribing and meet again next week.
15:47:44 <Zakim> -fjh
15:47:46 <Zakim> -Madi
15:47:48 <Zakim> -duga
15:47:50 <Zakim> -Tzviya
15:47:51 <Zakim> -GeorgeWalkley
15:47:51 <Zakim> -azaroth
15:47:53 <Zakim> -Bert
15:47:55 <Zakim> -plinss
15:47:57 <karen> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:47:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/03-dpub-minutes.html karen
15:48:22 <azaroth> karen:  I guess that Markus has to edit the minutes page?
15:48:27 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
15:48:29 <Zakim> -mgylling
15:48:32 <azaroth> Or does anyone have the rights on it?
15:48:58 <azaroth> s/Pierre/Pierre Danet/
15:49:04 <azaroth> Thanks GeorgeWalkley
15:49:40 <mgylling> So looking at the output we now know that one cannot add multiple regrets lines.
15:50:09 <mgylling> tmichel, we would need to edit the generated minutes, the regrets got messed up
15:50:21 <azaroth> My regrets for next week also, I'm on vacation with my sister who's visiting us from New Zealand
15:50:32 <mgylling> azaroth, ok
15:51:42 <mgylling> regrets: Bill Kasdorf, George Kerscher, Ivan Herman
15:51:49 <mgylling> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:51:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/09/03-dpub-minutes.html mgylling
15:52:09 <mgylling> nope didn't work
15:52:09 <GeorgeWalkley> quit
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15:52:57 <mgylling> tmichel, strike that, fixed now, no action needed
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16:11:15 <Zakim> -Sharad
16:16:15 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM
16:16:16 <Zakim> SW_DPUB-IG()11:00AM has ended
16:16:16 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.787.962.aaaa, +1.505.667.aabb, +46.7.06.02.aacc, +1.201.748.aadd, Karen_Myers, +1.650.404.aaee, +44.797.077.aaff, duga, Madi, fjh, Bert, azaroth, GeorgeWalkley,
16:16:17 <Zakim> ... mgylling, +1.503.456.aagg, Tzviya, Sharad, plinss, tmichel
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