15:11:14 RRSAgent has joined #mlw-lt 15:11:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-irc 15:11:16 Sorry: I'm in a call. I'll be late joining the GTM session 15:11:53 meeting: LQI editing 15:12:02 presence: phil, arle, yves, christian, felix 15:12:08 present: phil, arle, yves, christian, felix 15:12:58 chair: arle 15:13:08 topic: going through comments 15:13:17 comments 12 - change of "enabled flag" 15:13:57 felix: no need to discuss comments that mean change of markup (attributes, attribute names, values) - we can't do this for ITS2. You can defer such commments right away to ITS2.next 15:15:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:16:07 comment 15 - example of (in) accurate mapping - arle will provide that 15:16:54 comment 16 - the "must" needs to be a "must not" 15:17:24 comment 17 - plural for "informative mappings" 15:17:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:19:33 table for LQI information: was covered during last call. Arle will then re-write the "profile" row. The "enabled" information will be kept (see comment 12) 15:20:02 arle: order of the values is significant 15:20:17 .. we want to leave them as is 15:20:45 arle: we had realized that some issues could be categorized as multiple things 15:20:53 .. so we had a principle that would guide selection 15:20:56 chriLi has joined #mlw-lt 15:21:38 Sorry, my bandwith for GoToMeeting is too limited. It's even unstable for IRC. 15:21:42 topic: lqi type document 15:22:01 [order of values] discussion above is related to this doc 15:22:23 arle: comment 2 - how to identify target and source for "ommission" 15:22:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:22:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:23:48 phil: tend it to be target only 15:25:53 felix: changing it to "target only" would not influence implementations, so I think such a change is ok 15:26:04 .. but you as implementers need to be convinced of that :) 15:26:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:26:57 s/order of the values/comment one in lqi types doc on order of the values/ 15:26:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:27:09 arle: propose to make this "target (t)" only 15:27:33 yves: the problem is here: 15:27:57 .. when we do alignment - e.g. aligning things in which there is only a source, no target 15:28:06 .. or there is an addition to ... nothing? 15:28:27 arle: from the alignment perspective it is different - so you would prefer to leave the target *and* source? 15:28:47 yves: I see errors related to alignment that could need the "source" 15:28:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:29:39 phil: ok to me - so have this as target and source, and have examples, for both source and target 15:29:49 yves will write an example for the source usage, arle for the target 15:30:06 comment 3 15:30:22 would mean a markup change, so leave this as is 15:30:38 s/would/arle: would 15:30:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:30:59 comment 4 15:31:31 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Aug/0000.html 15:31:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:32:20 • A text translated into German systematically uses û, ô, and â instead of the appropriate 'ü', 'ö', and 'ä'. 15:33:41 • A text translated into German erroneously uses û, ô, and â instead of the appropriate 'ü', 'ö', and 'ä'. 15:34:06 The observation could also be made for the source language. 15:34:28 • A German text erroneously uses û, ô, and â instead of the appropriate 'ü', 'ö', and 'ä'. 15:35:39 Thus, the "A text translated into ..." possibly could be changed to "Characters in the source or target language are not appropriate (e.g. due to an encoding issue)". 15:36:27 Christian, for your comment number 5, we can't change the name of the markup at this stage. Are you OK with "formatting" instead of "rendering"? 15:37:58 Could/should we add a comment along the lines of "Strictly speaking, 'rendering' is not the appropriate term. It has been chosen to ..."? 15:38:10 Proposal for issue #4: A German text erroneously uses û, ô, and â instead of the appropriate 'ü', 'ö', and 'ä'. 15:38:23 +1 15:38:29 Christian, I thought you were asking for changing *to* "rendering" 15:38:57 "Rendering" doesn't occur in the text. I'm confused. 15:39:15 And "formatting" is what this is called in general language. 15:39:38 comment 5, see above. Needs to be looked at again 15:39:58 I was still at the "characters" value. Sorry for the confusion. 15:41:10 now looking at comment 6 15:41:21 #6: Some tools may correct for differences in units of measurement to reduce false positives. -> Some tools may correct for differences in units of measurement to reduce false positives (e.g., a tool might adjust for differences in values between inches and centimeters to avoid flagging numbers that seem to be different but are equivalent). 15:41:41 #6: Some tools may correct for differences in units of measurement to reduce false positives. -> Some tools may correct for differences in units of measurement to reduce false positives (e.g., a tool might adjust for differences in values between inches and centimeters to avoid flagging numbers that seem to be different but are in fact equivalent). 15:42:35 [at Arle & all: ommission in the source example - see comment 2 of lqi types doc - is now at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Aug/0043.html ] 15:42:40 now comment 7 15:44:20 We will need to ask for Christian for the source of confusion on number 7. 15:45:44 looking at no 7 again 15:47:36 discussion on what the problem with "pattern-problem" is 15:47:40 Would something like this note work? “A simple example is the use of a regular expression to detect inappropriately repeated words.” 15:47:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:48:17 s/going through comments/going through comments in lqi main section/ 15:48:17 Could we a URL-related example? 15:48:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:49:12 Christian, we can create such an example and add it. We would also add a note that the patterns are up to the implementing application and beyond the scope of this spec. 15:50:58 topic: wednesday call 15:51:06 felix: for the wednesday call Arle will go through the word documents that Christian had sent out http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Aug/0000.html and make changes with change marks. we will go through these during the call 15:51:11 agreement on this approach 15:51:16 topic: lqi types again 15:51:37 comment 8 - non-conformnance 15:51:44 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:52:54 “A system may build a statistical profile of a reference corpus and a new text and use it to note dissimilarities between those profiles. In the event that the new text seems to be out of expected bounds, it may be flagged.” 15:53:05 (As a note) 15:53:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:53:39 What would be a "statistical profile of a reference corpus"? 15:54:27 philr: not sure what part of the concept is hard to grasp for people 15:54:48 arle: my initial difficulty was: I was not sure what (non)conformance against a corpus is 15:54:57 .. because I lack the background 15:55:15 philr: I will try to re-word this to make it clearer 15:55:42 comment 9 - about "other" vs "uncategorized" 15:55:47 arle: both are needed 15:55:57 s/needed/needed values/ 15:56:11 arle: this might require a note to the table as a whole to explain why we have the two 15:56:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 15:56:40 christian: couple of dependencies between the initial values 15:56:57 .. e.g. saying "if you are unsure use the following value: .." is always tricky 15:57:17 Add a note to the table to explain when to use one and the other. 15:57:17 .. so making very clear when to use uncategorized and when to use other would help 15:58:23 now looking through the table at the bottom of the doc 15:58:34 s/doc/lqi types comments doc/ 15:58:51 christian: this is the outcome of a small survey about the understandibility of the categories 15:58:58 .. and the received importance of the categories 15:59:18 .. can be read as: "terminology" is most easy to understand 15:59:32 ... "pattern-problem" was not easy to understand 16:00:48 .. the people who gave input to the table had a look at the whole text in the lqi types section 16:01:11 arle: we will go through this table on the Wednesday call. For the call I will make the changes before the call in the word doc, to discuss them 16:01:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 16:01:29 arle: thanks to all for taking the time, adjourned for now 16:01:43 bye, thanks. 16:01:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 16:13:41 fsasaki has joined #mlw-lt 16:13:48 rrsagent, bye 16:13:48 I see no action items