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13:55:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/19-ldp-irc
13:55:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:55:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
13:55:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:55:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:55:39 <trackbot> Date: 19 August 2013
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13:59:43 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
13:59:45 <Zakim> +Arnaud
14:00:13 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:00:15 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:00:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:00:42 <Zakim> +SteveBattle
14:00:57 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
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14:01:39 <Zakim> +Steve_Speicher
14:01:55 <SteveS> Zakim, Steve_Speicher is me
14:01:55 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
14:03:20 <JohnArwe> JohnArwe has joined #ldp
14:03:22 <Arnaud> zkaim, who's on the phone?
14:03:28 <Zakim> +TomDN
14:03:31 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:03:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, [IPcaller], SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, TomDN
14:03:32 <mielvds> mielvds has joined #ldp
14:03:38 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
14:03:54 <Zakim> -TomDN
14:04:41 <Zakim> +TomDN
14:05:04 <mielvds> zakim, TomDN is me
14:05:04 <Zakim> +mielvds; got it
14:05:21 <mielvds> mysterie solved
14:05:28 <Arnaud> zakim, IPCaller is Ted
14:05:28 <Zakim> +Ted; got it
14:07:07 <JohnArwe> scribe: JohnArwe
14:07:54 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: approval of aug 5 minutes
14:07:57 <JohnArwe> http://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/ldp/2013-08-05
14:08:10 <roger> roger has joined #ldp
14:08:17 <JohnArwe> RESOLUTION: minutes of August 5 approved without objection
14:08:30 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: Meeting schedule going forward
14:09:14 <Kalpa> Kalpa has joined #ldp
14:09:18 <JohnArwe> Want to resume meetings; will meet August 26, will skip Sept 2 (US holiday), Sept 9 will skip due to F2F4 later that week and Arnuad will be traveling himself.
14:09:32 <Zakim> +roger
14:09:37 <JohnArwe> F2F4: please update your plans to attend, even if not final
14:09:50 <JohnArwe> F2F4 page: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F4
14:09:59 <Zakim> +Sandro
14:10:01 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: Actions/Issues
14:10:28 <JohnArwe> action-82 ?
14:10:28 <trackbot> action-82 -- Miel Vander Sande to Take another look at how LDP and GSP compare and report back -- due 2013-06-27 -- OPEN
14:10:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/82
14:10:37 <JohnArwe> task completed, we can close
14:10:49 <JohnArwe> trackbot, close action-82
14:10:49 <trackbot> Closed action-82.
14:11:33 <JohnArwe> action-49 ?
14:11:33 <trackbot> action-49 -- Cody Burleson to Turn the deployment guide/best practice wiki page into a first draft note for publication -- due 2013-03-21 -- OPEN
14:11:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/49
14:11:47 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:11:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, Ted, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro
14:12:00 <Arnaud> zakim, Ted is Cody
14:12:00 <Zakim> +Cody; got it
14:12:15 <roger> +q
14:12:22 <JohnArwe> Cody: working on it, 8 open items on my list for doc to be complete first pass of wiki content
14:13:15 <JohnArwe> ...5 sections to go through.  plus issues 62, 56, 50 hit document.
14:14:24 <JohnArwe> ... can close action, document exists, not sure if wg considers that done enough.
14:14:57 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: understand it's not done, but if you're converted it to respec we certainly CAN close it.  do you prefer leaving it open as a reminder?
14:15:05 <JohnArwe> Cody: close it, got it.
14:15:14 <JohnArwe> trackbot, close action-49
14:15:14 <trackbot> Closed action-49.
14:15:29 <Arnaud> ack roger
14:15:52 <JohnArwe> action-46?
14:15:52 <trackbot> action-46 -- Roger Menday to Work with Roger to raise an issue on using standard HTTP verbs for finer-grained graph manipulations -- due 2013-03-20 -- OPEN
14:15:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/46
14:16:52 <JohnArwe> Roger: property-level editing of resources.  I think in light of our patch decisions this might come up in the future, but I think OK to close it here.
14:17:26 <JohnArwe> ...best to close it.
14:17:34 <JohnArwe> close action-46
14:17:34 <trackbot> Closed action-46.
14:18:36 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: Status update
14:20:24 <JohnArwe> Cody: Best Practices and Guidelines ... going through wiki section by section filling in copious blanks.  5 sections left to draft.  Trying to hit 1-2 per week, optimistic to finish those over next 2 weeks.  Then several issues to cover.
14:20:52 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: understand time contention; if you need help, email list/people
14:21:19 <JohnArwe> Cody: need to look for omissions next; which BPs should we have that are not there yet at all.
14:23:22 <JohnArwe> SteveBattle: Use Cases + Reqts ... working on Miguel's list.  Traceability issue; thinking about adding number to end of heading.
14:23:38 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: David Wood was supposed to review, contact him.
14:24:11 <SteveS> davidwood, any chance of review UCR your ACTION-41 ?
14:24:16 <JohnArwe> SteveBattle: David gave me verbal comments; think actions might exist on Roger and EricP.  Do we have a date for comments?
14:24:57 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: F2F4 will be partly consumed by normative issues, but everyone should review all the documents in preparation for the meeting.
14:25:13 <JohnArwe> SteveBattle: Battling respec/specref to add informative refs.
14:25:21 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:25:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, Cody, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro
14:25:45 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: test suite - no one appears to be on to represent that work.
14:26:00 <JohnArwe> SteveS: last commit on it was 11 days ago, so has been moving.
14:26:18 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: Access control ... Miguel and Ted to review, Ashok waiting for those comments
14:26:37 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: Primer ... Nandana MIA, but Roger is on
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14:27:03 <SteveS> FYI…list of changesets for primer, test suite, guidance and spec https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ldpwg/shortlog
14:27:41 <JohnArwe> Roger: ReSpec'd it up, restructuring, adding picture for each example, you can show everything in either Turtle or JSON-LD.
14:27:59 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: please try to align with F2F4 dates so WG can review.
14:30:06 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: IETF accept-post ... implementers (whether in LDP or not) should use the email/instructions from ErikW's post to speak up and support it so it moves faster in IETF.  Need not be product or on sale; prototype level of implementation is fine.
14:30:55 <SteveS> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Jul/0105.html
14:31:10 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: Spec comments
14:33:05 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: MUST be diligent in tracking + responding to comments, in order to move past Last Call. every comment on the public list has been captured in tracker, must be disposed of.  Not required that full WG handles it, e.g. for a question the editors could just answer it.  Those requiring spec changes beyond simple editorial ones will need group discussion.
14:33:45 <JohnArwe> ... so far: one probably WG discussion from Mark Baker, several smaller ones from Ashok
14:34:17 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:34:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, Cody, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro
14:34:56 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: editors can suggest order for handling
14:35:18 <JohnArwe> Ashok: how do you want to handle?  wait for f2f, send email, calls?
14:35:48 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: don't wait for F2F; especially for simpler ones, use email list etc.
14:37:55 <JohnArwe> ... practice getting familiar with process by looking at list https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/55082/ldp/
14:38:38 <JohnArwe> ... we'll assign what we can now, have to leave time for PATCH on this call
14:38:53 <JohnArwe> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/55082/ldp/2815
14:41:56 <JohnArwe> first part: existing spec sections cited
14:42:34 <Arnaud> section 5.4.4 "servers MAY allow the creation of LDPCs within a LDPC"
14:45:26 <JohnArwe> second part: if a member is also a container itself, and the outer container orders query results, can that ordering be defined for anything other than a non-member-property of the nested (member) container?  and what if anything does LDP need to say about this?
14:47:39 <JohnArwe> Ashok: add sentence to restrict the ordering to non-member property in this case?  No other ordering is allowed b/c we don't know how it would work.
14:48:41 <JohnArwe> SteveS: not sure this is hard and fast rule; adding special language for this case might add some clarity for this case, but could also confuse people who don't even see the question.  seems informative not normative.
14:49:11 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: say that for the purposes of query, the members are viewed as LDPRs regardless of what other types they might have.
14:49:19 <JohnArwe> SteveS: general section on ordering
14:49:29 <JohnArwe> Ashok: also can hit best practices.
14:50:34 <JohnArwe> SteveS: I'll handle the response
14:51:31 <JohnArwe> Sandro: Don't have to track in-WG comments the same way.  Even if they're posted to the "external comments" list, we can just say "should have been posted to WG list" and not respond further externally, to reduce our overhead.
14:51:45 <JohnArwe> TOPIC: Patch format
14:52:39 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: summarizes history; no "real" solution arrived in time, hope something arrives in time for next spec version; how can we help ensure it really materializes in time for next version?
14:53:37 <Ashok> q+
14:53:57 <SteveS> q+
14:54:03 <JohnArwe> Sandro: CG sounds reasonable.  "We" group can't do much, "we" individuals have to keep it moving.  CG as a way to have a common place for the discussions would be useful.
14:54:30 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: PATCH not part of LDP charter, just need to find home for the discussions.
14:54:55 <Ashok> Why not a task force?
14:55:38 <Arnaud> ack ashok
14:56:04 <JohnArwe> Sandro: competing design goals, e.g. "just use SPARQL Update" is one answer we should expect.  We didn't like that initially.  If we open this up beyond LDP consensus may be hard; there are people on both sides of issues like blank nodes/not, lists/not, re-use RDF syntax(es) or not
14:56:48 <JohnArwe> Ashok: CG has overhead like joining.  Task force can be lighter weight.
14:57:21 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: personally I'd be happy to do that, but mindful of charter.  Team Contacts?
14:58:11 <Arnaud> ack steves
14:58:19 <JohnArwe> Sandro: should be OK to work on it.  It's relevant to chartered work, just not on right schedule for Rec-track work.  Could be a Note.  If you want separate mailing list I can easily create one.
14:59:27 <JohnArwe> SteveS: other options exist?  I like keeping it under our umbrella, have use cases and people interested, not sure aside from that and CG what our options really are.
15:01:42 <SteveS> +1 for new list for patch
15:01:49 <stevebattle4> +1 for new list
15:01:51 <Ashok> +1
15:01:53 <JohnArwe> Arnaud: discussion of mechanics ... manually tag email threads vs new list
15:01:55 <mielvds> +1 new list
15:02:17 <JohnArwe> action: sandro to create new mailing list for patch discussion
15:02:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-92 - Create new mailing list for patch discussion [on Sandro Hawke - due 2013-08-26].
15:02:53 <JohnArwe> Ashok: need to publicize this work, encourage others to join to work on it
15:04:16 <SteveS> +1 for public-ldp-patch mailing list, hardcore RDF patch would just be SPARQL Update?
15:05:29 <stevebattle4> Thanks, bye.
15:05:32 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
15:05:33 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:05:34 <JohnArwe> fin
15:05:35 <Zakim> -mielvds
15:05:37 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:05:37 <Zakim> -SteveBattle
15:05:38 <Zakim> -Cody
15:05:39 <Zakim> -roger
15:05:40 <Zakim> -SteveS
15:05:41 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
15:05:43 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
15:05:43 <Zakim> Attendees were Arnaud, SteveBattle, Ashok_Malhotra, SteveS, JohnArwe, mielvds, roger, Sandro, Cody
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