12:50:08 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webtv
12:50:08 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-webtv-irc
12:50:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
12:50:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webtv
12:50:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:50:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:50:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Web and TV Interest Group Teleconference
12:50:13 <trackbot> Date: 14 August 2013
12:51:15 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
12:51:15 <Zakim> sorry, kaz, I don't know what conference this is
12:51:37 <kaz> zakim, this will be webtv
12:51:37 <Zakim> ok, kaz; I see UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM scheduled to start in 9 minutes
12:51:40 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
12:51:40 <Zakim> ok, kaz; the call is being made
12:51:41 <Zakim> UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has now started
12:51:42 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki
12:56:35 <ddavis> ddavis has joined #webtv
12:56:59 <ddavis> Hello there
12:58:21 <PaulHiggs> PaulHiggs has joined #webtv
12:58:44 <Zakim> +??P4
12:58:46 <Zakim> -??P4
12:58:46 <Zakim> +??P4
12:59:10 <ddavis> Zakim, ??P4 is ddavis
12:59:10 <Zakim> +ddavis; got it
12:59:37 <Zakim> + +1.720.934.aaaa
13:00:04 <kaz> zakim, aaaa is Clarke
13:00:04 <Zakim> +Clarke; got it
13:00:30 <Zakim> -ddavis
13:00:33 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
13:00:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kazuyuki, Clarke
13:00:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see PaulHiggs, ddavis, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, trackbot, glenn, timeless
13:00:43 <Zakim> +PaulHiggs
13:00:45 <Zakim> +??P9
13:01:05 <Zakim> +??P14
13:01:06 <kaz> zakim, ??P9 is giueppep
13:01:06 <Zakim> +giueppep; got it
13:01:14 <ddavis> Zakim, ??P14 is ddavis
13:01:14 <Zakim> +ddavis; got it
13:01:23 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
13:01:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kazuyuki, Clarke, PaulHiggs, giueppep, ddavis
13:01:24 <Zakim> On IRC I see PaulHiggs, ddavis, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, trackbot, glenn, timeless
13:01:42 <Clarke> Clarke has joined #webtv
13:01:43 <Sheau> Sheau has joined #webtv
13:01:48 <giuseppe> giuseppe has joined #webtv
13:01:49 <Bin_Hu> Bin_Hu has joined #webtv
13:02:04 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
13:02:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kazuyuki, Clarke, PaulHiggs, giueppep, ddavis
13:02:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bin_Hu, giuseppe, Sheau, Clarke, PaulHiggs, ddavis, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, trackbot, glenn, timeless
13:02:09 <Zakim> + +1.917.693.aabb
13:02:29 <kaz> zakim, aabb is Sheau
13:02:29 <Zakim> +Sheau; got it
13:02:33 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
13:02:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kazuyuki, Clarke, PaulHiggs, giueppep, ddavis, Sheau
13:02:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bin_Hu, giuseppe, Sheau, Clarke, PaulHiggs, ddavis, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, trackbot, glenn, timeless
13:03:06 <ddavis> scribenick: ddavis
13:03:19 <kaz> Meeting: Web&TV IG - Testing TF
13:03:24 <kaz> Chair: Clarke
13:03:27 <kaz> zakim, mute me
13:03:27 <Zakim> Kazuyuki should now be muted
13:03:30 <Zakim> +Bin_Hu
13:03:35 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
13:03:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kazuyuki (muted), Clarke, PaulHiggs, giueppep, ddavis, Sheau, Bin_Hu
13:03:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see Bin_Hu, giuseppe, Sheau, Clarke, PaulHiggs, ddavis, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, trackbot, glenn, timeless
13:04:01 <kaz> Present: Kaz, Clarke, Paul, Giuseppe, Daniel, Sheau, Bin
13:04:02 <ddavis> Clarke: Anything to add to the existing agenda?
13:05:01 <ddavis> Zakim, take up item 1
13:05:01 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
13:05:04 <kaz> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-web-and-tv/2013Aug/0001.html
13:05:07 <ddavis> Zakim, take up item 1
13:05:07 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
13:05:24 <ddavis> Clarke: Looking at the "issues" page, sent to the list earlier.
13:05:28 <Clarke> issues: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/products/4
13:05:51 <ddavis> Giuseppe: There's a link to the tracker at the top of the wiki page in the quick links.
13:06:00 <ddavis> Clarke: Let's go over raised issues first.
13:06:04 <kaz> issue-4?
13:06:04 <trackbot> issue-4 -- Use Case: Service User Interface -- closed
13:06:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/issues/4
13:06:20 <ddavis> Clarke: Starting with issue 62 "Media source extension"
13:06:33 <ddavis> ... They have all been included in the use cases.
13:06:51 <ddavis> ... Bin, have they adequately been addressed?
13:07:13 <kaz> i|Let's go over|-> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Main_Page Web&TV wiki|
13:07:29 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Yes, I think it's already included in the use case document so that's good.
13:09:55 <giuseppe> close issue-62
13:09:55 <trackbot> Closed issue-62.
13:10:02 <giuseppe> close issue-63
13:10:02 <trackbot> Closed issue-63.
13:10:04 <giuseppe> close issue-64
13:10:04 <trackbot> Closed issue-64.
13:11:11 <kaz> zakim, unmute me
13:11:11 <Zakim> Kazuyuki should no longer be muted
13:11:26 <giuseppe> close issue-58
13:11:27 <trackbot> Closed issue-58.
13:11:27 <Zakim> -ddavis
13:12:03 <Zakim> +??P14
13:12:07 <ddavis> Zakim, ??P14 is ddavis
13:12:07 <Zakim> +ddavis; got it
13:12:12 <kaz> zakim, mute ddavis
13:12:12 <Zakim> ddavis should now be muted
13:12:16 <giuseppe> close issue-67
13:12:16 <trackbot> Closed issue-67.
13:12:35 <giuseppe> close issue-61
13:12:35 <trackbot> Closed issue-61.
13:12:45 <Zakim> -ddavis
13:13:05 <giuseppe> close action-108
13:13:05 <trackbot> Closed action-108.
13:13:34 <giuseppe> close action-109
13:13:34 <trackbot> Closed action-109.
13:13:37 <kaz> i|close issue-62|(check the status of issues and actions)|
13:13:40 <Zakim> +??P14
13:13:46 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:13:49 <ddavis> Zakim, ??P14 is ddavis
13:13:49 <Zakim> +ddavis; got it
13:13:55 <giuseppe> close action-110
13:13:55 <trackbot> Closed action-110.
13:14:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:14:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:14:26 <giuseppe> close action-111
13:14:26 <trackbot> Closed action-111.
13:15:04 <kaz> i|Anything to add|topic: issues and actions|
13:15:04 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:15:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:15:23 <ddavis> Giuseppe: Should we use Google Docs instead?
13:15:40 <ddavis> Clarke: The tools we have already do it in the correct format.
13:16:09 <ddavis> Clarke: But I'd be open to do it in Google Docs
13:16:20 <ddavis> Bin: Google Docs works well in my experience.
13:16:39 <ddavis> Giuseppe: With Google Docs you can just share the link and make edits
13:16:48 <ddavis> Clarke: I'm happy to do that. Anybody opposed?
13:16:59 <ddavis> Action: Clarke to move the requirements document to Google Docs
13:17:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-131 - Move the requirements document to google docs [on Clarke Stevens - due 2013-08-21].
13:17:24 <ddavis> s/Bin: /Sheau: /
13:17:37 <ddavis> Clarke: We've now completed and closed the survey.
13:17:41 <giuseppe> close action-112
13:17:42 <trackbot> Closed action-112.
13:17:55 <giuseppe> close action-117
13:17:55 <trackbot> Closed action-117.
13:18:56 <ddavis> Clarke: That completes the action items. Next, let's talk about the table.
13:20:05 <giuseppe> https://www.w3.org/Member/wiki/Webtv/testing
13:20:37 <ddavis> Giuseppe: Did you discuss how to aggregate the results in the last call?
13:20:44 <ddavis> Clarke: No, we wanted to have you here.
13:21:05 <ddavis> Giuseppe: OK, so it should be clear what I've done and how I've put the sum of the votes from the members.
13:21:33 <ddavis> ... I haven't done any normalization or calculating averages.
13:22:06 <ddavis> ... So we have two options - either we create two "mandatory" and "optional" choices
13:22:15 <ddavis> ... or we create a ranking, ordering by priority
13:22:28 <ddavis> Clarke: I like the ranking idea.
13:22:48 <ddavis> ... If it makes sense, we could do ranking and whether it got one or more votes for "mandatory".
13:22:53 <ddavis> ... I think ranking would be most useful for me.
13:23:04 <ddavis> Giuseppe: By the way, the table can already be ordered.
13:23:17 <kaz> i|/wiki/Webtv/testing|topic: Requirements|
13:23:24 <ddavis> Sheau: Would it be useful if we normalized the internal/external vote because at the moment they're very different.
13:23:31 <ddavis> Clarke: I think that would be useful.
13:23:48 <ddavis> Giuseppe: Also, are the votes/ranking the same thing for internal and external?
13:24:04 <kaz> zakim, mute me
13:24:04 <Zakim> Kazuyuki should now be muted
13:24:07 <ddavis> Clarke: Would you suggest doing two separate tables or both ranking numbers in a single table?
13:24:28 <ddavis> Giuseppe: You can have two columns in the same table for external and Web & TV members.
13:24:53 <ddavis> ... You could then have the final ranking based on the sum.
13:25:15 <ddavis> Clarke: That makes sense for the ranking and aggregate results.
13:25:26 <ddavis> ... The columns after the "Category" - do we want to include those?
13:25:39 <ddavis> ... CoreMob is not confidential. Is it useful to have that there?
13:26:00 <ddavis> Giuseppe: We can leave it in because it's something that they (Tobie's group) is already using.
13:26:32 <ddavis> Clarke: So "group", "category", "CoreMob", maybe something that says "mandatory" for anything that got at least one "mandatory" vote
13:26:41 <ddavis> ... then something for external votes, then a composite ranking.
13:26:59 <ddavis> Giuseppe: I'd skip "mandatory" because it's difficult to measure
13:27:23 <ddavis> Clarke: So "group", "category", "CoreMob", internal vote, external vote, final vote.
13:27:48 <ddavis> ... Ranking should be 1 for the highest vote-getter? Or display a percentage?
13:28:06 <ddavis> ... You'd get a little more information if you use percentage.
13:28:28 <ddavis> Giuseppe: We could just leave the numbers how they are, putting them in order, and explain how we got there.
13:28:40 <ddavis> Sheau: I find percentages easier to grasp
13:28:56 <ddavis> ... Numbers feels like having my feet in two separate boats.
13:29:14 <ddavis> Clarke: I don't see any reason to not use the raw numbers (percentages)
13:29:54 <ddavis> ... If we have the total respondents in the header and then below a paragraph or two explaining our methodology.
13:30:34 <ddavis> ... Now on to the Word document.
13:31:12 <ddavis> Giuseppe: Who's going to do the table work?
13:31:26 <ddavis> Clarke: Why don't you go ahead and finish it off.
13:31:48 <ddavis> Action: Giuseppe to finish the table display/columns.
13:31:49 <trackbot> Created ACTION-132 - Finish the table display/columns. [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2013-08-21].
13:32:12 <ddavis> Clarke: On to the next item and there are some changes.
13:32:39 <ddavis> Giuseppe: Regarding the document in general, there seem to be inputs from different mixed groups so I'm wondering how we should organise it.
13:33:41 <ddavis> Clarke: I'll put the doc on Google Docs today and you can make any changes or organisation suggestions on there.
13:34:22 <ddavis> ... Look at section 5.25.11
13:34:41 <ddavis> ... It looks like a requirement was not captured here before. Any comments about that addition?
13:35:14 <ddavis> s/5.25.11/5.2.11/
13:35:31 <ddavis> Giuseppe: What's the point of just listing one or two things for each spec?
13:36:13 <ddavis> ... Maybe there should be a dedicated bit with these specs and why.
13:36:15 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:36:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:36:32 <ddavis> Clarke: Our objective is to look at test tool requirements and communicate that in a logical way.
13:36:48 <ddavis> ... What you're suggesting is a list of requirements and beneath that, a justification?
13:37:01 <kaz> s/topic: Requirements/topic: Feature table/
13:37:05 <kaz> i|On to the next|topic: Requirements document|
13:37:15 <ddavis> Giuseppe: We started listing general requirements but now we have requirements for specific specs.
13:37:32 <ddavis> ... I'm not saying we shouldn't do it but we should say why we're doing it.
13:37:45 <kaz> i|On to the next|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-web-and-tv/2013Aug/att-0002/Web___TV_Testing_Requirements-2013-08-13.docx updated document (member-only)|
13:37:55 <ddavis> ... Also, some specs (EME, MSC) are not in the table
13:37:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:37:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:38:22 <ddavis> ... So there are some requirements here just for EME and MSC - why are we picking things only for these specs?
13:38:30 <ddavis> Clarke: One reason is that they were listed as use cases.
13:38:42 <ddavis> ... Generally we try to take use cases and extract requirements from those.
13:39:02 <ddavis> ... I listed all the use cases we went over in the group. Admittedly they may not be completely normalized.
13:39:12 <ddavis> ... I'm open to other ways of doing this.
13:39:30 <ddavis> ... We had some general overview kinds and then we had some more specific use cases.
13:40:04 <ddavis> ... I agree that it's not ideally presented so would be good if you had suggestions for improvement.
13:40:16 <ddavis> Giuseppe: OK, I'll write something - that would be easier to explain.
13:40:48 <ddavis> ... I'll put it in an email. I think we should have general requirements and for specific specs, a separate section.
13:40:53 <ddavis> ... with an explanation why.
13:41:30 <ddavis> Clarke: What I want to say is that these use cases exposed certain requirements for a test tool that may not have been covered in other use cases.
13:41:55 <ddavis> ... We picked out use cases that were relevant to web on TV in order to expose requirements for this are that may not be in other groups.
13:42:12 <ddavis> Sheau: Is it correct to say this reflects the group's gap analysis?
13:42:34 <ddavis> Giuseppe: Actually, we haven't done a gap analysis.
13:42:58 <ddavis> ... Although this was a bit special, we now have the use cases, we have generated a requirement.
13:43:38 <ddavis> ... Next is to discuss ongoing work to see if there are some requirements not covered, during which we can do gap analysis.
13:44:18 <ddavis> Clarke: In section 6.1.4 there are some comments specific to Media Source Extensions
13:45:12 <ddavis> ... The comments cover splicing.
13:46:07 <ddavis> ... I think our detail is a bit inconsistent - in this case we have a lot of detail.
13:46:31 <ddavis> Giuseppe: The content may be valid, we just need to justify why it's like this.
13:47:17 <ddavis> Clarke: No comments on this section?
13:47:48 <ddavis> ... OK, that's all the additions that have been made.
13:47:57 <ddavis> ... We were hoping to complete this by the end of the month which is still possible.
13:48:42 <ddavis> ... In order for it to be a successful document, we need comments and participation.
13:48:56 <ddavis> ... Let's move on to scheduling and anything general we want to cover.
13:49:04 <kaz> topic: schedule
13:49:14 <ddavis> ... I'd like to have a list of requirements we can sent to the HTML testing group by the end of this month.
13:49:29 <kaz> s/... I'd/Clarke: I'd/
13:49:36 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:49:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:50:03 <ddavis> Giuseppe: We don't necessarily need to wait. We have the table so we could send that out before the requirements document.
13:50:04 <kaz> s/schedule/Schedule/
13:50:05 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:50:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:50:16 <PaulHiggs> PaulHiggs has joined #webtv
13:50:33 <ddavis> Giuseppe: And regarding gap analysis, we can do that later
13:50:55 <ddavis> ... after we've seen how the HTML group is testing, e.g. TV/STB devices which may have special requirements.
13:51:04 <kaz> +1
13:51:24 <ddavis> ... Maybe we should look at that aspect, such as do we need to have support for WebDriver?
13:51:51 <ddavis> Giuseppe: Maybe make a list of things to be aware of or what a device needs to support.
13:52:04 <kaz> s/... Maybe/Giuseppe: Maybe/
13:52:12 <ddavis> Clarke: That would be useful. Do you have any sample docs that could be used as a template?
13:52:20 <ddavis> Giuseppe: No, but we can make it ourselves.
13:52:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:52:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:52:48 <ddavis> Giuseppe: It could start as an index, to have a starting point for the TV aspect.
13:53:01 <ddavis> Clarke: Good idea. Any other comments?
13:53:10 <kaz> q+
13:53:21 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
13:53:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kazuyuki (muted), Clarke, PaulHiggs, giueppep, Sheau, Bin_Hu, ddavis
13:53:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see PaulHiggs, Bin_Hu, giuseppe, Sheau, Clarke, ddavis, Zakim, RRSAgent, kaz, trackbot, glenn, timeless
13:53:26 <kaz> zakim, unmute me
13:53:26 <Zakim> Kazuyuki should no longer be muted
13:53:33 <ddavis> Clarke: Let's get the table normalized and ready for publication before the next meeting in two weeks.
13:53:42 <giuseppe> s/giueppep/giuseppe
13:53:44 <ddavis> ... Any other comments, I'll try to get them integrated by then.
13:54:01 <ddavis> Clarke: We can then publish the requirements after that.
13:54:16 <ddavis> Kaz: Do you want to make the requirements doc into an official note?
13:54:26 <ddavis> Clarke: I think it could be useful published as a separate note.
13:54:44 <ddavis> Kaz: Maybe we could publish it as a note including the whole requirements.
13:55:03 <ddavis> Clarke: There could be a tracking issue but I don't think we'll make changes because it's a survey.
13:55:13 <ddavis> Kaz: If needed we could merge the two notes later.
13:55:26 <ddavis> s/requirements doc/requirements doc and table/
13:55:31 <ddavis> Clarke: Anything else?
13:55:44 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: So we'll talk about the schedule next time?
13:56:07 <ddavis> Clarke: Yes, there are a couple of small things which are achievable in the next two weeks so see where we are after that.
13:56:25 <ddavis> ... The requirements doc may need extra work after that.
13:56:32 <Zakim> -PaulHiggs
13:56:37 <Zakim> -Sheau
13:56:39 <Zakim> -Bin_Hu
13:56:41 <Zakim> -Clarke
13:56:48 <ddavis> Clarke: OK, meeting adjourned - see you in two weeks.
13:56:51 <Zakim> -giueppep
13:56:52 <Zakim> -ddavis
13:57:00 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
13:57:01 <Zakim> UW_WebTVIG()9:00AM has ended
13:57:01 <Zakim> Attendees were Kazuyuki, ddavis, +1.720.934.aaaa, Clarke, PaulHiggs, giueppep, +1.917.693.aabb, Sheau, Bin_Hu
13:57:02 <Clarke> Thanks for scribing, Daniel
13:57:04 <kaz> [ adjourned ]
13:57:08 <ddavis> You're welcome
13:57:17 <giuseppe> zakim, giueppep is giuseppe
13:57:17 <Zakim> sorry, giuseppe, I do not recognize a party named 'giueppep'
13:57:33 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:57:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/14-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:57:40 <kaz> rrsagent, stop