14:54:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:54:43 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/13-wai-wcag-irc
14:56:01 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
14:56:03 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:56:19 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
14:56:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:56:27 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
14:56:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:56:37 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
14:56:37 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
14:58:39 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
14:58:41 <Zakim> +[Adobe]
14:58:44 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:15 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
15:02:25 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Joshue, [Adobe], Bruce_Bailey
15:02:36 <AWK> Zakim, [A is AWK
15:02:36 <Zakim> +AWK; got it
15:02:38 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:40 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Joshue, AWK, Bruce_Bailey
15:03:22 <Zakim> + +1.978.261.aaaa
15:03:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:34 <Loretta> zakim, ipcaller is Loretta
15:03:34 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
15:03:57 <Zakim> +??P17
15:06:17 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:06:33 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
15:08:37 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Kathy_Wahlbin
15:08:39 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin; got it
15:08:40 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Joshue, AWK, Bruce_Bailey, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic
15:09:05 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013JulSep/0046.html
15:09:31 <AWK> Scribe: Kathy
15:09:31 <Kathy> scribe: Kathy
15:10:01 <Joshue> agenda +  Signing up to respond to open issues
15:10:07 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
15:10:07 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:10:08 <Zakim> 1. WCAG review of Techniques Task Force: ARIA techniques for 21st June [from Joshue]
15:10:08 <Zakim> 2. Continuing Institutional Memory Collection for SC 1.1.1: [from Joshue]
15:10:08 <Zakim> 3. Signing up to respond to open issues [from Joshue]
15:10:17 <MichaelC> zakim, clear agenda
15:10:17 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:10:25 <Kathy> TOPIC: Assigning issues and institutional memory collection for 1.3.1: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13Aug2013/
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15:11:23 <Kathy> Andrew: Can choose more than one.  We want to distribute the work
15:12:05 <Kathy> Josh - we can look at who has done the work and then assign the work out
15:12:28 <Kathy> Kathy - I will write the response for next week
15:12:58 <Kathy> Andrew - it would be good if we can have responses by the end of this week
15:14:14 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
15:15:16 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:15:39 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:15:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:15:43 <Kathy> Josh - take a look at the items not assigned and see if you can respond
15:16:16 <Loretta> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/13Aug2013/results#xq4
15:16:30 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/2790
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15:17:37 <Kathy> Josh - who should respond to LC-2790: Using aria-describedby to provide descriptions of objects
15:18:08 <Kathy> Josh - I will respond to this one
15:18:49 <David> David has left #wai-wcag
15:19:59 <Kathy> Josh - LC-2785: *Labels or Instructions*: Understanding SC 3.3.2
15:20:22 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:20:40 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:20:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see David_MacDonald, Joshue, AWK, Bruce_Bailey, Kathy_Wahlbin, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic, James_Nurthen
15:21:02 <David> am I here?
15:21:36 <Kathy> David - I will take this one and LC-2811, LC-2806
15:21:37 <AWK> Zakim, queue?
15:21:37 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:22:48 <Kathy> Andrew - please get them in by Friday
15:24:11 <Kathy> Loretta - put in WG Notes and resolution.  Submit as proposal
15:24:26 <Kathy> Andrew - submit as proposal changes the status
15:24:32 <David> David has left #wai-wcag
15:24:33 <Loretta> Don't put int WG notes - people usually don't notice them.
15:24:40 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:24:47 <Loretta> WG notes are a better place for keeping WG history about the issue.
15:26:18 <Kathy> TOPIC:  institutional memory collection for 1.3.1
15:26:30 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:27:30 <David> David has left #wai-wcag
15:27:35 <Kathy> Josh - Michael has set up a WIKI page.  Every week we will look at a success criteria and capture the information.
15:27:36 <Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG20/Institutional_Memory
15:28:45 <Kathy> Andrew - we may just want to jot down what the questions are
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15:29:23 <Kathy> Loretta - this is helpful exercise especially for those who were not there
15:30:26 <Kathy> Josh - what are some of the framing questions?
15:30:49 <Kathy> Josh - what do you remember about the development of a success criteria that may not be apparent
15:31:05 <Kathy> Loretta - what is it about 1.3.1 that you have questions about?
15:32:48 <Kathy> Josh - something that I find is front-loaded.  Very important success criteria.  Covers a lot of what we need to do to make something is accessible.  This is a good success criteria.
15:33:58 <Kathy> Andrew - had a review done and had comments on 1.3.1 that were wide ranging.  For example, list of links is not marked up as a list.  Another is headings but not marked up as headings
15:35:53 <Kathy> David - this one is turned in a catch all success criteria.  This one we were trying to consolidate.
15:37:22 <Kathy> David - we could have spent more time on 4.1.2 to articulate it a bit more and clarified the boundries
15:38:44 <Joshue> KW: Different experts in the field categorize form controls under various SCs. So where does it sit?
15:38:57 <Kathy> Loretta - 1.1.1 has reference to form controls
15:39:10 <Kathy> Andrew - are all form controls non-text content
15:39:21 <Kathy> Loretta - we did not define what text is
15:39:30 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:39:37 <Joshue> zakim, queue?
15:39:37 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:39:40 <jamesn> q+
15:39:40 <AWK> Zakim, queue?
15:39:41 <Zakim> I see jamesn on the speaker queue
15:40:12 <AWK> From understanding 1.1.1: For non-text content that is a control or accepts user input, such as images used as submit buttons, image maps or complex animations, a name is provided to describe the purpose of the non-text content so that the person at least knows what the non-text content is and why it is there.
15:40:23 <Loretta> q+
15:40:59 <Kathy> Bruce: Can have a single element on a page for form control that falls under 1.1.1 and 1.3.1.  The major thing for 1.3.1, it is a bucket
15:41:00 <Joshue> ack james
15:41:33 <Joshue> ack loretta
15:41:36 <Kathy> James - it was not the intent that it would fall under 1.1.1.  It could be misinterpreted
15:41:44 <AWK> +1 James
15:42:05 <Joshue> +q
15:42:08 <AWK> s/+1 James/+1 James's comment
15:42:28 <Kathy> Loretta - elements can have to meet multiple success criteria.  This was intentional
15:42:29 <AWK> q+
15:42:49 <Joshue> ack me
15:43:32 <MichaelC> q+
15:43:43 <MichaelC> q+ to say we can put pointer to minutes in wiki
15:43:52 <Kathy> Josh - interesting conversation.  We need a way of capturing this.  We could have everyone put this on the WIKI.
15:44:07 <MichaelC> q+ to say it could be useful to have someone try to distill from minutes, before everyone sticks repeated stuff in wiki
15:44:11 <Joshue> ack awk
15:45:28 <Joshue> ack mich
15:45:28 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say we can put pointer to minutes in wiki and to say it could be useful to have someone try to distill from minutes, before everyone sticks repeated stuff
15:45:31 <Zakim> ... in wiki
15:45:32 <Kathy> Andrew - it was important for technology independence to have 1.3.1 to be less well defined.  It is a difficult balance
15:46:31 <Kathy> Michael - we are scribing the minutes and we can put a link to the minutes in the WIKI. It would be good to have a person to distill the meeting into WIKI and then people can add comments
15:47:17 <Kathy> Josh - for everyone that makes a comment, let's make sure that it is minutes.  That would make it easier for the person to add to the WIKI
15:47:37 <AWK> q+
15:47:46 <AWK> ack awk
15:47:51 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:47:51 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:48:31 <Kathy> Andrew - Loretta, question for you.  We have had a number of discussions on low vision.  There are a number of things that 1.3.1 applies to
15:48:50 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
15:48:51 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:49:06 <Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG20/Institutional_Memory/SC_1.3.1
15:49:46 <Kathy> Loretta - Added it to the WIKI.  The goal of 1.3.1 is to expose it to AT and that the AT would expose this information in the way that they need it.  In the case of low-vision, they may not be using AT.  Tied to what is accessibility support and how far does the author's responsibility go
15:50:41 <Kathy> Josh - Bring back to the logistics, Michael would you be able to look through the minutes and add them to the WIKI.
15:50:57 <Kathy> Michael - yes
15:51:14 <Kathy> Josh - we can take turns adding it to the WIKI
15:51:47 <Kathy> Loretta - have a look at what I have added into the wiki
15:52:33 <Kathy> Josh - 1.3.1 is loaded with so much stuff so it is helpful to have it listed here
15:55:07 <Loretta> q+
15:55:28 <Joshue> ack Loret
15:55:31 <Kathy> Josh- don't worry about categorization, let's get the comment in the WIKI
15:56:09 <Kathy> Loretta - where the pain points are for reviews sparks the discussion
15:56:46 <Kathy> Andrew - reminder we are looking for feedback on the alt information
15:57:05 <Kathy> Topic:  Gathering feedback on alt and HTML5
15:58:00 <Joshue> http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-wai-wcag-minutes#item04
15:58:26 <Kathy> http://dev.w3.org/html5/alt-techniques/
15:58:27 <David> q+
15:59:15 <Kathy> Josh - here is the link for the alt-text: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#alt
15:59:29 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIATechs_Aug6_2013//results
15:59:29 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/embedded-content-0.html#alt
15:59:45 <Kathy> David - already submitted comments as bugs
16:00:36 <Kathy> Loretta - if there is text on the page that describes the image, then aria-labelledby can be used
16:00:53 <Kathy> David - is this an alternative for the image?
16:01:06 <Kathy> Loretta - depends on what is in the label
16:01:22 <Kathy> David - need to check the accessibility support
16:02:19 <Kathy> Loretta - if there is accessibility support then this is a reasonable approach, adding the same information in alt can take longer to load the page
16:03:42 <Kathy> Loretta - it is push back that i have had before.  Also for localization
16:03:58 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIATechs_Aug6_2013/
16:04:29 <Kathy> Josh - we should flag this with task force.  The survey is open for the next couple of weeks.  Take a look at the spec and add in comments.
16:05:57 <Kathy> David - if we are submitting comments, then need sufficient agreement in the group.  We should see what the group feels about aria-labelledby
16:06:43 <Kathy> Michael - aria-labelledby is one technique, less preferred than the native methods such as alt attribute.  But there are reasons for things to be different so the possibility exists
16:06:53 <AWK> q+
16:07:03 <Loretta> q+
16:07:38 <Kathy> Josh - where the advice for localization live?  WCAG but the lines get blurred.  HTML5 needs to have information on creating accessible content
16:07:42 <Joshue> ack Dav
16:07:53 <Joshue> ack awk
16:08:29 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/ARIATechs_Aug6_2013/results#xq4
16:08:44 <Kathy> Andrew - ask Loretta about comment in survey
16:10:37 <Kathy> Loretta - if we look at the 1.1.1 then there are situations where we have a form control where we need a label.  For a generic image, that should be the text equivalent.  Spec does not require the alt attribute
16:10:54 <Joshue> ack Loret
16:11:59 <Loretta> q+
16:12:04 <Joshue> ack Lor
16:12:06 <Kathy> Josh - good discussion and it is good to have the opinions.  Please respond to the survey.  It will be open for a couple of weeks.  May go around in circles with discussions in other groups
16:13:00 <Kathy> Loretta - this information should live .... HTML5 spec has a larger reach.  We need to make sure the information is correct.
16:13:41 <Kathy> Josh - leave this for the next couple of weeks and then we will regroup.
16:14:42 <Kathy> Andrew - remember to respond by Friday to your assignments
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16:15:05 <Zakim> -AWK
16:15:07 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
16:15:08 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:15:11 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:15:12 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:15:12 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:15:13 <Zakim> -Loretta
16:15:17 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:15:18 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
16:15:18 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
16:15:18 <Zakim> Attendees were David_MacDonald, Joshue, [Adobe], Bruce_Bailey, AWK, +1.978.261.aaaa, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, James_Nurthen
16:15:27 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:15:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
16:19:38 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:31:37 <jamesn_> jamesn_ has joined #wai-wcag
18:02:47 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
18:03:28 <MichaelC> meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
18:03:38 <MichaelC> chair: Joshue_O_Connor
18:03:46 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
18:03:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/13-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
18:04:59 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
18:04:59 <RRSAgent> I see no action items