14:38:40 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:38:40 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/13-dpub-irc
14:38:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:38:42 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:38:44 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:38:44 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:38:45 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:38:45 <trackbot> Date: 13 August 2013
14:53:30 <karen_> karen_ has joined #dpub
14:54:03 <duga> duga has joined #dpub
14:54:05 <ivan> zakim, room for 20 at 11:00?
14:54:08 <Zakim> ok, ivan; conference Team_(dpub)15:00Z scheduled with code 26631 (CONF1) at 11:00 for 60 minutes until 1600Z; however, please note that capacity is now overbooked
14:55:56 <duga> 3782#  is not a valid passcode, apparently
14:56:09 <ivan> yes, duga, there has been a hiccup today
14:56:22 <ivan> please, use 26631 (CONF1
14:56:34 <duga> OK, thank you!
14:56:39 <ivan> sorry about that
14:57:36 <Zakim> Team_(dpub)15:00Z has now started
14:57:43 <Zakim> +mgylling
14:57:48 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: PLEASE USE, EXCEPTIONALLY, THE CODE 26631 FOR DIALLING IN TODAY
14:58:01 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:58:01 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:58:02 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:58:08 <Zakim> + +1.650.404.aaaa
14:58:21 <duga> zakim, aaaa is duga
14:58:22 <Zakim> +duga; got it
14:58:38 <fjh> fjh has joined #dpub
14:58:40 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:58:47 <naitik> naitik has joined #dpub
14:58:47 <karen_> zakim, IPcaller is Karen
14:58:48 <Zakim> +Karen; got it
14:58:52 <fjh> zakim, code?
14:58:52 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
14:58:57 <duga> Just so you know, I am on a bus so will have difficulty speaking
14:59:22 <mgylling> duga, okidok
14:59:57 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #dpub
14:59:57 <Zakim> +??P7
15:00:04 <fjh> zakim, ??P7 is me
15:00:04 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
15:00:16 <JeanKaplansky> JeanKaplansky has joined #DPUB
15:00:24 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
15:00:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see mgylling, Ivan, duga, Karen, fjh
15:00:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see JeanKaplansky, tmichel, naitik, fjh, duga, karen_, Zakim, RRSAgent, mgylling, ivan, trackbot, Liam, plinss, sandro
15:00:29 <Sharad> Sharad has joined #dpub
15:01:31 <Zakim> +JeanKaplansky
15:01:39 <mgylling> regrets: Vladimir, George, Rob
15:02:02 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
15:02:04 <karen_> Chair: Markus Gylling
15:02:08 <karen_> Scribe: Karen Myers
15:02:17 <karen_> Guest: Jean (JeanKaplansky) Kaplansky, Aptara
<ivan> Guest: Karen (karen_) Myers, W3C
<ivan> Guest: Tzviya (tzviya) Siegman, Wiley
15:02:36 <ivan> scribenick: karen_
15:03:34 <Zakim> +Bert
15:04:04 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
15:04:17 <tmichel> zakim says 3782# passcode is not valid !
15:04:22 <TomDN> TomDN has joined #dpub
15:05:04 <Sharad> passcode is not working
15:05:12 <Zakim> +TomDN
15:05:17 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
15:05:17 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
15:05:21 <fjh> zakim, code>
15:05:22 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code>', fjh
15:05:23 <karen_> Passcode for today only has chnaged
15:05:25 <mgylling> Sharad, use 26631
15:05:27 <fjh> zakim, code?
15:05:28 <Zakim> the conference code is 26631 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), fjh
15:05:35 <tmichel> I have tried at least 1à times I can't get in Zakim with code 3782# "passcode is not valid !"
15:05:47 <tmichel> what is the code then ?
15:06:14 <Zakim> + +1.503.614.aabb
15:07:00 <Zakim> +??P25
15:07:11 <tmichel> zakim, ??P25 is me
15:07:11 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
15:07:32 <ivan> zakim, aabb is Sharad
15:07:32 <Zakim> +Sharad; got it
15:07:44 <tmichel> OK works fine with code 26631 ...
15:07:48 <mgylling> Zakim, who is here?
15:07:48 <Zakim> On the phone I see mgylling, Ivan, duga, Karen, fjh, JeanKaplansky, Bert, TomDN (muted), Sharad, tmichel
15:07:50 <karen_> Ivan: eventually zakim will learn code...
15:07:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see TomDN, Bert, Sharad, JeanKaplansky, tmichel, naitik, fjh, duga, karen_, Zakim, RRSAgent, mgylling, ivan, trackbot, Liam, plinss, sandro
15:08:06 <karen_> ...apologies for the zakim hiccup; there was an administrative problem today
15:08:39 <karen_> Markus: Shall we get started?
15:08:43 <karen_> Ivan: yes
15:08:56 <karen_> Markus: First thing is of course I forgot to put in the agenda the most fun item of all
15:09:02 <karen_> ...which is to bless or not last week's minutes
15:09:23 <karen_> ...open up floor if there are comments
15:09:36 <karen_> Ivan: or forever hold your peace
15:09:46 <karen_> Markus: sounds like there are not objections, so we're done with that
15:09:56 <Zakim> +Madi
15:10:03 <karen_> ...I thought we could look quickly around to see if we have any new members joining us today
15:10:05 <ivan> For the records, last week's minutes: https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/dpub/2013-08-06
15:10:09 <karen_> Madi: hi everyone
15:10:16 <karen_> Markus: I see one, Brady Duga from Google
15:10:22 <karen_> ...you may not be able to speak
15:10:32 <karen_> Brady: Say hello, I've been around epub for many, many years
15:10:41 <karen_> ...have done liaising with W3C on CSS WG; and I'm on a bus
15:10:49 <karen_> Markus: welcome, Brady, we are glad to have you
15:11:02 <karen_> ...anyone else new who was not here last week?
15:11:16 <karen_> ...While we are speaking about new members, we could go into this topic right away
15:11:19 <madi> madi has joined #dpub
15:11:27 <karen_> ...please keep an eye open to new members you would like to suggest
15:11:30 <karen_> ...please contact me
15:11:39 <karen_> ...Thank you, Jean, for pointing us to Bluefire
15:11:40 <JeanKaplansky> you're welcome!
15:11:42 <karen_> ...we are talking to them now
15:11:53 <karen_> ...Chairs have done a fair amount of outreach over the past week
15:12:04 <karen_> ...Just like we've seen Brady join, we expect to see more folks join
15:12:12 <karen_> ...in large organizations it takes time
15:12:22 <karen_> ...Any other questions regarding membership that anyone would like to speak about?
15:12:32 <karen_> ...Next, a reminder that also email list
15:12:42 <karen_> ...Thierry sent out pointers to the TPAC face-to-face meeting in China
15:12:52 <karen_> ...This group will meet and many other groups in w3C
15:13:00 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
15:13:00 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
15:13:04 <TomDN> +q
15:13:09 <karen_> ...For planning purposes, the W3C is asking everyone to register as soon as possible
15:13:12 <karen_> ack TomDN
15:13:23 <karen_> TomDN: yes, I wanted to ask if there is going to be a telephone bridge to dial in?
15:13:28 <karen_> Ivan: to the TPAC meeting?
15:13:31 <karen_> ...we will try to set it up
15:13:40 <karen_> ...one thing we cannot change is the time difference
15:13:43 <karen_> Markus: right
15:13:48 <TomDN> zakim, mute me
15:13:48 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
15:13:55 <karen_> ...ok, so anything other regarding logsitics that I missed
15:13:56 <karen_> q+
15:14:08 <Zakim> + +1.201.748.aacc
15:14:16 <karen_> Markus: speaking of scribing, Karen is doing so today but will not moving forward
15:14:27 <karen_> ...we should try to identify the scribe in advance of each meeting
15:14:35 <karen_> ...so here is then an order for all of us
15:14:40 <karen_> ...if you are willing to scribe
15:14:54 <ivan> -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2013Aug/0003.html mail on TPAC registration
15:14:59 <karen_> ...identify yourself on the email thread, if this does not work, we will select
15:15:05 <karen_> Ivan: who is from 201 ac?
15:15:13 <tmichel> Good to know in advance people who volunteer to scribe
15:15:24 <tmichel> by responding to the agenda ...
15:15:26 <duga> q+
15:15:27 <karen_> zakim, aacc is Tsviya
15:15:27 <Zakim> +Tsviya; got it
15:15:35 <karen_> Markus: welcome, Tsviya
15:15:40 <ivan> guest: Tsviya
15:15:54 <karen_> Tsviya: I work for Wiley, also work with IDPF, with ePub standards
15:16:15 <karen_> @: TPAC says we will meet with other groups
15:16:27 <karen_> Ivan: Two days are Monday and Tuesday
15:16:36 <karen_> ...CSS plans to meet same days; we can plan to meet with them
15:16:50 <karen_> ...and we'll work with Markus and Madi about what other groups
15:16:56 <karen_> @: so Monday and Tuesday for sure
15:17:11 <karen_> Ivan: yes, but there are other groups meeting and you are welcome to stay for whole week
15:17:13 <ivan> s/@/Brady/
15:17:25 <karen_> q+
15:17:33 <tmichel> Everybody is welcome to attend any meeting during TPAC week as guest
15:17:43 <karen_> Markus: suggest we go to next agenda items about the use case templates
15:17:49 <ivan> ack karen_
15:17:51 <duga> q-
15:17:54 <ivan> ack duga
15:18:19 <mgylling> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Template
15:18:31 <karen_> Karen: emphasize point about need for visas to travel to China
15:18:36 <karen_> ...and need to get letter of invitation
15:18:45 <karen_> Markus: if you can, follow the link on irc
15:18:54 <karen_> ...or in the email sent out a couple hours ago, go to template page
15:19:04 <karen_> ...there are many different aspects to what we need to decide here
15:19:12 <karen_> ...Assume we'll start out with the wiki for the use caes
15:19:17 <karen_> s/caes/cases
15:19:29 <karen_> ...we can move to something else eventually, but let's start there [with wiki]
15:19:36 <karen_> ...Before we start talking about details
15:19:46 <karen_> ...Madi and I have prepared this statement for today
15:19:57 <karen_> ...many of you have been through this type of exercize before
15:20:08 <karen_> ...likely experienced useful and not so useful approaches
15:20:16 <karen_> ...we would like to tap into all of your collective experience
15:20:25 <karen_> ...any suggestions on changes to what we have here is more than welcome
15:20:30 <karen_> ...this is just an early draft to start
15:20:40 <karen_> ...So basically, if you look at the template page
15:20:52 <karen_> ...small chunks like this in these fields is what we would be producing
15:21:02 <karen_> ...many of these use cases will be produced; organized in different ways
15:21:10 <karen_> ...this is one approach to the template
15:21:14 <karen_> ...a quite standard approach
15:21:18 <karen_> ...there is a use case field
15:21:33 <karen_> ...that describes some kind of action or sequence of actions that an actor performs
15:21:41 <karen_> ...Second field is the requirements from the use case
15:21:52 <karen_> ...We've also been discussion...more interesting
15:22:00 <karen_> ...the additional fields that should be provided
15:22:06 <karen_> ...Suggestion for stakeholder field
15:22:12 <karen_> ...which requirement this applies to
15:22:19 <karen_> ...is it stakeholder, retailer, etc.
15:22:27 <karen_> ...could be done in later organization to sort things
15:22:34 <karen_> ...based on stakeholders involved to each case
15:22:42 <karen_> ...Another possible field is @
15:22:49 <karen_> ...will be a lot of stuff over the year
15:22:58 <karen_> ...One of things working groups, once we start approaching them
15:23:02 <karen_> ...is how we rank
15:23:11 <karen_> s/@/ranking
15:23:22 <karen_> ...ranking is difficult to do, so would like to get your input from your experience
15:23:27 <karen_> ...in a way that makes sense
15:23:43 <karen_> ...Next field is relations dependency...to describe how it relates to another use case
15:23:47 <karen_> ...helps to navigate
15:24:00 <karen_> ...Finally we have the field for mentioning which groups we believe to be involved in which use cases
15:24:04 <ivan> q+
15:24:07 <karen_> ...Sometimes we know, other times we do not
15:24:13 <karen_> ...good to see which activity is involved
15:24:18 <karen_> ...So those are the starting point fields
15:24:27 <karen_> ...There are two examples below to describe how we could look
15:24:40 <karen_> ...Look at completely ad hoc examples, not intended to be real
15:24:46 <karen_> ...Stakeholders field is enumerated
15:24:57 <karen_> ...ranking field is left out since we don't know how to do that
15:25:04 <karen_> ...That is a quick 101 on the starting template
15:25:16 <karen_> ...I would like to open the floor for all of you to tell us what you think
15:25:25 <karen_> ...what you like, not, what we should do differently
15:25:26 <karen_> ack Ivan
15:25:32 <ivan> q+
15:25:39 <karen_> Ivan: For those who are new, put yourselves on queue
15:25:48 <karen_> ack Ivan
15:26:00 <karen_> Ivan: what I miss is something which tells me that this use case is here
15:26:12 <karen_> ...because these are the technical problems with the current W3C specifications
15:26:20 <karen_> ...these are the features I need to do that and I don't have them
15:26:32 <karen_> ...we certainly do not want use cases that cannot be solved without current recommendations
15:26:35 <karen_> Markus: exactly
15:26:41 <karen_> ...we won't be adding anything if it's not a problem
15:26:45 <Zakim> -duga
15:26:46 <JeanKaplansky> q+
15:26:55 <karen_> Ivan: later when we have several of those we can group the various entries
15:27:10 <karen_> ...according to problem areas and regroup certain areas and hand over to CSS for example
15:27:13 <Zakim> +duga
15:27:20 <karen_> ...could be 3-4 use cases for example that testify to those
15:27:28 <karen_> Markus: the field you would like to see, how would it look?
15:27:37 <karen_> Ivan: if it's more granular than W3C groups
15:27:42 <karen_> ...the technical feature that you ened
15:27:45 <karen_> s/need
15:27:51 <karen_> ...we don't know in detail, but we need something
15:27:57 <karen_> Markus: ok, make sure I understand
15:28:06 <karen_> ...Looking at examples and requirements listing
15:28:12 <karen_> ...those are feature descriptions to me
15:28:15 <karen_> Ivan: ok
15:28:27 <karen_> ...I see what you mean
15:28:41 <karen_> ...Ok, so we should try to be as specific as possible
15:28:47 <karen_> ...to make the later work easier
15:28:52 <karen_> ...you are right, requirement is there
15:28:56 <mgylling> q?
15:29:01 <karen_> ...we should avoid to give a very high-level requirement
15:29:05 <karen_> ack JeanKaplansky
15:29:13 <karen_> JeanKaplansky: I will be quick
15:29:29 <karen_> ...for people who are invited guests, how do you want to proceed if we have one to offer?
15:29:36 <karen_> ...do we do by proxy, or send themselves?
15:29:42 <karen_> ...I don't have access to the wiki
15:29:44 <karen_> q+
15:29:47 <karen_> Markus: Ivan?
15:29:56 <ivan> ack karen_
15:30:33 <karen_> Karen: best to send to mailing list for now
15:30:47 <Zakim> -Ivan
15:30:48 <karen_> ...two ways to participate are as member or Invited Expert (IE)
15:31:02 <karen_> ...we'll be happy to discuss with anyone in either situation offline
15:31:19 <karen_> Markus: If we get a big corpus, we'll likely move to a data table since wiki will be messy
15:31:34 <karen_> ...point you are raising about making it easier...we want to filter by W3C area
15:31:37 <karen_> ...WG by specification
15:31:41 <karen_> ...agree that the current field
15:31:42 <ivan_> ivan_ has joined #dpub
15:31:45 <karen_> ...where we list something
15:31:48 <karen_> ...is not ideal
15:31:53 <karen_> ...better to be more specific
15:32:12 <karen_> ...For each of these examples there are two reuirements that spawn from use cases; but no way to tell which applies to which WG below
15:32:12 <ivan_> zakim, dial ivan-voip
15:32:12 <Zakim> ok, ivan_; the call is being made
15:32:14 <Zakim> +Ivan
15:32:19 <karen_> ...so that is one thing we can solve
15:32:22 <karen_> ...many ways to do that
15:32:30 <karen_> ...Are there any other comments, thoughts or reactions on this?
15:32:46 <TomDN> q+
15:32:48 <karen_> ...Does it look reasonable to you?  Other experiences that you have had?
15:32:53 <karen_> ...All open to making changes now
15:32:55 <karen_> ack TomDN
15:33:04 <karen_> TomDN: keeping list of use cases easy to go through
15:33:12 <karen_> ...would it be good to have a set number of fields
15:33:14 <karen_> ...that we can enter
15:33:21 <karen_> ...For example, looking at publishers and accessibility
15:33:27 <karen_> ...could we keep a list of those values
15:33:33 <karen_> ...and [cannot hear]
15:33:44 <karen_> Markus: agree; stakeholders field
15:33:50 <karen_> ...also pointer to relevant W3C activity
15:33:58 <karen_> ...So yes, that is a good point; we should do that
15:33:59 <TomDN> s/[cannot hear]/avoid near duplicates/
15:34:08 <karen_> Ivan: it's simple because we can refer to W3C WG that is relevant
15:34:27 <karen_> Markus: when it comes to stakeholders, we could evolve for a while but would need to maintain a list
15:34:31 <karen_> ...publishers-all
15:34:41 <karen_> ...there are certain things of interest to digital publishers
15:34:56 <karen_> ...science publishers have different wishes, so specify that somewhere
15:35:08 <karen_> ...as we get use cases that pertain to a specific group
15:35:19 <TomDN> zakim, mute me
15:35:19 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
15:35:23 <karen_> ...Any other thoughts or comments?
15:35:42 <karen_> ...Again, in my experience, and we'll be talking next about the taxonomy, the higher level organizatoin
15:35:55 <karen_> ...not so critical to get right; that can change over time with multiple views of same data
15:36:06 <karen_> ...but it will be painful to change if we get this wrong
15:36:13 <karen_> ...Good to settle the format for the use cases
15:36:21 <karen_> ...How do we want to proceed?
15:36:28 <karen_> ...Madi, any reactions?
15:36:34 <karen_> Madi: this whole wiki is new to me
15:36:39 <karen_> ...so not at this times
15:36:55 <karen_> Markus: to start generating we could declare a two-week period of trial
15:36:59 <karen_> ...where we test the usage
15:37:05 <karen_> ...and after that we can do a review
15:37:10 <karen_> ...and make any changes needed
15:37:21 <karen_> ...Not too far off from now, I would like to nail down the sytax
15:37:29 <karen_> ...but worthwhile to try it out for a while first
15:37:41 <karen_> ...So unless there are more comments, suggestion is that we will use this layout for two weeks
15:37:48 <karen_> ...depending upon how much progress we make
15:37:50 <ivan> q+
15:37:54 <karen_> ...and return to call two weeks from now
15:37:59 <karen_> ...How does that sound?
15:38:02 <karen_> ack Ivan
15:38:08 <karen_> Ivan: very practical advice
15:38:24 <madi> q+
15:38:30 <karen_> ...because we don't have yet everybody on this call, it's probably worth sending a separate email to everyone on the mailing list
15:38:37 <TomDN> Zakim, who is noisy?
15:38:41 <karen_> ...and maybe even do a small blog on the activity blog
15:38:48 <karen_> Markus: to the structure of the use cases?
15:38:49 <Zakim> TomDN, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: mgylling (79%)
15:38:59 <tmichel> maybe we can have a summary in the minutes email and request for tests cases ...
15:39:01 <karen_> Ivan: the fact that they are there and people should begin to post use cases
15:39:15 <ivan> zakim, mute me
15:39:15 <Zakim> Ivan should now be muted
15:39:25 <karen_> Markus: So before we move on, the ranking field, arguably the most tricky one
15:39:38 <karen_> ...use cases are irrelevant for some, and 'to die for' for others
15:39:45 <karen_> ...how do we do it? Try at all or not?
15:40:02 <karen_> ...It appears that this might be a separate thing all together
15:40:10 <karen_> ...The importance ranking might be better to do later on
15:40:14 <karen_> ...ask stakeholders to rank
15:40:26 <karen_> ...that could be one approach to rank after the use cases are there
15:40:31 <ivan> +1 to postpone
15:40:33 <karen_> ...could be post-ponted to later stage
15:40:34 <tmichel> In the additional info field, we could have links to other technologies dealing with this use case
15:40:35 <karen_> ...not sure
15:40:39 <karen_> ...other suggestions?
15:41:06 <karen_> @: I think post-poning prioritization is ok, but I've learned that timelines and prioritization are related
15:41:06 <TomDN> +1 sounds better indeed (no one will rank their own use case as low-priority ;-) )
15:41:15 <karen_> ...can it be implemented in six or twelve months
15:41:19 <karen_> Markus: yes, we'll see
15:41:24 <karen_> Madi: I agree with what was just said
15:41:30 <karen_> ...we also need to flesh this out
15:41:37 <karen_> ...ranking is one of this group's biggest deliverables
15:41:38 <ivan> s/@/Tzviya/
15:41:43 <karen_> ...we need to prioritize some of the work teams
15:41:54 <karen_> ...and flesh out who has voting rights
15:42:00 <karen_> ...So I vote for separating it
15:42:11 <karen_> ...if we finalize on it; who will be ranking
15:42:22 <karen_> ...and we report where that particular use case or specification
15:42:27 <karen_> ...however we want to do it
15:42:31 <karen_> Markus: right
15:42:51 <karen_> ...so it sounds like we have agreement to post-pone and not have ranking in the use case now but do it at a later stage
15:42:56 <karen_> ...do it when we sort out other things
15:43:04 <tmichel> have the ranking latter when we have a list of use cases
15:43:04 <karen_> ...That is good; one field less to worry about
15:43:08 <karen_> ...To get started then
15:43:28 <karen_> ...An area where we enumerate stakeholder field; anything else?
15:43:33 <karen_> ...I guess that's it
15:43:36 <karen_> ...All right
15:43:55 <karen_> ...unless there are more comments on the use case template, let's move on to the taxonomy
15:43:58 <tmichel> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Categories
15:44:03 <karen_> ...URL is here
15:44:07 <karen_> ...thanks, Thierry
15:44:26 <karen_> ...Again, my personal view is getting the individual structure of use case right is much more important now
15:44:39 <karen_> ...we can have multiple views of same data, but we need one place to start
15:44:47 <karen_> ...we could actually use the categories as a table of contents
15:44:52 <karen_> ...at least one categorical view
15:45:10 <karen_> ...not just be a wiki page with headings; as we add use cases we would add under the headings here
15:45:28 <karen_> ...The purpose here is to have...somebody comes along with new problem area
15:45:36 <karen_> ...we have not thought of; so it's no problem
15:45:43 <karen_> ...if we have to reorganize, it's no problem
15:45:43 <ivan> q+
15:45:49 <karen_> ...in order to help us
15:45:54 <karen_> ...also to see where we are making progress
15:46:02 <Zakim> -duga
15:46:04 <karen_> ...why suggestion here is to use the overarching taxonomy
15:46:16 <karen_> ...these are basically top level, where there are things very likely to be added
15:46:26 <karen_> ...so it's quite a straight-forward approach
15:46:40 <karen_> ...we have added demos for first entries to see how it can be expanded downwards
15:46:45 <karen_> ...We don't have to enumerate now
15:46:48 <karen_> ...See as we go along
15:47:01 <karen_> ...This should be our starting point in the wiki
15:47:06 <Zakim> +duga
15:47:15 <karen_> ...Use cases will be listed here; way to navigate the corpus and see how we are making progress
15:47:18 <ivan> q?
15:47:20 <karen_> ...Any thoughts, suggestions or comments?
15:47:29 <jkaplansky> jkaplansky has joined #dpub
15:47:36 <ivan> zakim, unmute
15:47:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'unmute', ivan
15:47:40 <jkaplansky> jkaplansky has left #dpub
15:47:48 <karen_> ack Madi
15:47:59 <karen_> Madi: actually, it was earlier in conversation
15:48:09 <karen_> ...Now, as a taxonomist, looking at this
15:48:19 <karen_> ...the domain specific content types might be a problem
15:48:30 <karen_> ...each one of those will have dependencies in layout, accessibility
15:48:41 <karen_> ...how to keep this hierarchical and multiple links to different categories
15:48:46 <karen_> ...might be a problem
15:48:54 <karen_> Markus: yeah, I agree; not sure how to do that
15:48:58 <karen_> Madi: give it some thought
15:49:04 <karen_> Markus: one individual use case
15:49:14 <karen_> ...say metadata and infographics
15:49:19 <karen_> ...link to it twice here
15:49:29 <karen_> ...can do in wiki as opposed to dataformat
15:49:35 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #dpub
15:49:36 <karen_> ...keep it up to date in the short term
15:49:49 <karen_> ...content types need to be different
15:49:56 <karen_> ...so any suggestions on how to organize that are welcome
15:49:58 <mgylling> q?
15:50:01 <karen_> ack Ivan
15:50:03 <ivan> ack ivan
15:50:29 <karen_> Ivan: First to react to what Madi said, to have same entry appearing under different headings here seems to be perfectly fine
15:50:41 <karen_> ...not as strict...more a categorization of different aspects
15:50:54 <karen_> ...I think that will be fine to handle problem she [Madi] was referring to
15:51:10 <karen_> ...original reason I was on queue was to ask where we put interaction
15:51:17 <karen_> ...relevant for children's books or educational material
15:51:32 <karen_> ...now with existance of Java Script, SVG, ePub3 opens up for this
15:51:37 <karen_> ...I don't see where this fits
15:51:45 <karen_> ...Interaction for me is a top level category
15:51:49 <karen_> Markus: yes, probably you are right
15:51:56 <karen_> ...I think we should add that
15:52:06 <karen_> ...I was thinking we have the assessments for example
15:52:13 <karen_> ...We could add more specific one
15:52:27 <karen_> ...Scientific interaction need is different from children's books
15:52:37 <karen_> Ivan; yes, it comes back to what Madi said
15:52:44 <karen_> ...several entries will fit in to several categories
15:52:56 <karen_> ...internationalization or accessibility will have overlaps as well
15:53:03 <mgylling> q?
15:53:06 <karen_> Markus: so refresh page and you will see Interaction field
15:53:18 <karen_> ...Good, to summarize then
15:53:27 <karen_> ...we have  trial period for the use case structure
15:53:34 <karen_> ...We have this page which we will probably rename
15:53:44 <karen_> ...entry page for the whole wiki where we link the use casees
15:53:55 <karen_> ...anybody who adds use cases must add it also to the mailing list
15:53:59 <karen_> Ivan: absolutely
15:54:08 <karen_> Markus: adding to mailing list is also required
15:54:16 <karen_> ...any remaining questions or comments
15:54:19 <karen_> Thierry: one detail
15:54:35 <karen_> ...for @...would it be good to have name of author who is entering the use case?
15:54:41 <karen_> ...we could ask person for clarification?
15:54:45 <karen_> Markus: added by, yes
15:54:49 <karen_> ...that could be good
15:55:03 <karen_> ...what is the proper English term?
15:55:10 <karen_> ...submitted by?
15:55:15 <karen_> Ivan: that works for me
15:55:32 <karen_> Markus: Final agenda item
15:55:40 <karen_> Thierry: don't we also need a date/
15:55:47 <karen_> s//?
15:55:55 <karen_> ...if you want to know new and former use cases
15:56:08 <karen_> ...has it been reviewed or not; is it a new draft; has it been discussed by the group
15:56:14 <karen_> ...there will be a workflow for agreement for that
15:56:18 <karen_> ...we can have that later
15:56:27 <karen_> ...But sooner the better because people will fill it in
15:56:36 <karen_> Markus: try to stick with submitted by and dates
15:56:42 <karen_> ...very annoying to do all the down
15:56:45 <karen_> ...becomes stale
15:56:49 <karen_> ...when I tried dit
15:56:56 <karen_> ...In terms of status that is a good point
15:57:08 <karen_> ...What is the formal process?  Will the IG formally bless the case?
15:57:16 <karen_> Ivan: up to us how we organize ourselves
15:57:28 <karen_> Markus: sounds like we should go through the use cases on each call
15:57:34 <karen_> ...List will also be part of the discussion
15:57:45 <ivan> q+
15:57:45 <karen_> ...but show that we are standing behind something as a group is a good thing
15:57:48 <karen_> ...So a status field
15:57:53 <karen_> Thierry: what I tried to mention
15:58:00 <karen_> ...this use case we discussed enough; not reopen it
15:58:12 <karen_> ...but at some point you want to nail down an issue an move on to another one
15:58:24 <karen_> ...so status like discussed or agreed would be helpful
15:58:39 <karen_> Markus: Something like status...under discussion; on-going; accepted
15:58:47 <ivan> ack ivan
15:58:50 <karen_> Ivan: accepted...Also a very practical thing
15:59:03 <karen_> ...not sure how many use cases we will have; but hopefully quite a lot
15:59:16 <karen_> ...anybody adding new use cases should keep information precise
15:59:26 <karen_> ...it's ok to write a separate wikipage with more details
15:59:29 <karen_> ...that's why it's there
15:59:40 <karen_> ..but this page here should be relatively concise
15:59:49 <karen_> ...or else page will become unmanageable
15:59:52 <karen_> Markus: correct
16:00:05 <tzviya> raises hand
16:00:08 <karen_> ...from the categories we would likely have sub-categories for use cases
16:00:14 <duga> duga has joined #dpub
16:00:15 <karen_> ...so all use cases pertaining to Internationalization
16:00:25 <karen_> Ivan: that means what we say...and be clear
16:00:30 <karen_> ...If I open up a new page on the wiki
16:00:40 <karen_> ...we don't have a page with all the use cases
16:00:49 <karen_> ...but each use case should have its own separate page
16:00:58 <karen_> Markus: collection of use cases on one page
16:01:05 <karen_> Ivan: ok, if we have indexes
16:01:21 <karen_> Tzviya: To what extend should we solicit use cases from larger groups
16:01:34 <Zakim> -Sharad
16:01:34 <karen_> ...working with the AAP...American Association of Publishers working on the ePub tree
16:01:40 <karen_> ...I have a large group at my disposal
16:01:48 <karen_> Markus: yes, you know lots of stuff that the industry wants
16:01:59 <karen_> ...and to channel that through that in here is why we love having you here
16:02:08 <karen_> ...yes, go for it
16:02:17 <karen_> Tzviya: I'll add it to my next meeting agenda
16:02:22 <karen_> Markus: Final item is what to do next
16:02:29 <karen_> ...it's to start exercizing our set-up
16:02:45 <karen_> ...We'll need to distribute action items to someone who would like to start populating the wiki accordingly
16:02:50 <karen_> ...Either we ask the chairs to get us started
16:02:59 <karen_> ...but if anybody else
16:03:15 <karen_> ...would like to do a couple in a category of your choice, please raise your hand
16:03:19 <karen_> ...and we'll be happy to guide you
16:03:30 <karen_> Tzviya: once I start gathering use cases I can add them in
16:03:38 <karen_> ...not sure I have access to edit wiki
16:03:49 <karen_> Markus: alright
16:04:01 <karen_> ...we'll ask chairs to take new action to take real use cases to the wiki
16:04:16 <karen_> Madi: yes
16:04:23 <karen_> Markus: any other business?
16:04:28 <karen_> ...great, how do we close action?
16:04:31 <Zakim> -Madi
16:04:46 <TomDN> have to go, bye
16:04:47 <karen_> Ivan: which action?
16:04:51 <Zakim> -TomDN
16:04:55 <tmichel> ACTION: Madi to take real use cases to the wiki
16:04:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3 - Take real use cases to the wiki [on Madi Solomon - due 2013-08-20].
16:05:01 <karen_> Markus: actions 1 and 2
16:05:06 <Zakim> -duga
16:05:07 <fjh> ACTION-001?
16:05:07 <trackbot> ACTION-001 -- Madi Solomon to Create the strawman for the taxonomy -- due 2013-08-13 -- OPEN
16:05:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/actions/1
16:05:10 <karen_> ...you are free to depart call now; thank you
16:05:12 <fjh> close ACTION-001
16:05:12 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-001.
16:05:17 <ivan> close ACTION-002
16:05:18 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-002.
16:05:27 <Zakim> -fjh
16:05:29 <Zakim> -Tsviya
16:06:02 <tmichel> ACTION: Markus to take real use cases to the wiki
16:06:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-4 - Take real use cases to the wiki [on Markus Gylling - due 2013-08-20].
16:06:38 <Zakim> -JeanKaplansky
16:06:51 <mgylling> karen_ yes, we will arrange a scribe, promise
16:07:10 <Zakim> -Bert
16:07:16 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:07:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/13-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
16:10:14 <Zakim> -mgylling
16:10:16 <Zakim> -Karen
16:16:43 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:21:43 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in Team_(dpub)15:00Z
16:21:45 <Zakim> Team_(dpub)15:00Z has ended
16:21:45 <Zakim> Attendees were mgylling, Ivan, +1.650.404.aaaa, duga, Karen, fjh, JeanKaplansky, Bert, TomDN, +1.503.614.aabb, tmichel, Sharad, Madi, +1.201.748.aacc, Tsviya
17:00:09 <fjh> fjh has left #dpub
18:32:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #dpub
21:03:14 <Bert> Bert has left #dpub