IRC log of osfw3c on 2013-08-08

Timestamps are in UTC.

00:00:12 [James_M_Snell]
but allowing multiple models to be used as needed by implementers, including, is valuable
00:00:24 [tantek]
KevinMarks: "Schema embodies bad practices"
00:00:50 [hhalpin]
Note that the issues around aligning vocabs, etc. should be brought up in final report
00:00:57 [evanp]
Kevin Marks points out that non-open spec development is a "worst practice"
00:01:02 [tantek]
Schema ignores vCard4 for example
00:03:22 [Andrew_Mallis]
00:03:37 [evanp]
hhalpin: I think I've done the scribing incorrectly
00:03:58 [evanp]
I don't see anything in the minutes
00:04:06 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, make minutes
00:04:06 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wseltzer
00:04:07 [AnnBassetti_]
evanp: ALL scribing is helpful
00:04:29 [Andrew_Mallis]
intersting how the devolves into all caps by the end
00:04:30 [evanp]
audience: we will have different layers in social federation
00:04:45 [evanp]
transport, identity, meta-language, vocabularies
00:05:16 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, this meeting spans midnight
00:05:20 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, make minutes
00:05:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wseltzer
00:05:28 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, make yesterday's minutes
00:05:28 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make yesterday's minutes', wseltzer. Try /msg RRSAgent help
00:05:47 [evanp]
wseltzer: thanks
00:06:57 [evanp]
hhalpin notes that most of tomorrow will be around running code
00:07:20 [evanp]
OK, we're going to the bar
00:07:26 [evanp]
James_M_Snell: while I have you here
00:07:30 [evanp]
I think
00:07:39 [James_M_Snell]
I'm still here
00:07:41 [evanp]
I htink
00:07:47 [evanp]
I'm still kind of lost what the goal is then
00:07:55 [wseltzer]
00:07:58 [wseltzer]
00:08:02 [wseltzer]
00:08:13 [gkellogg]
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00:08:16 [evanp]
I think what you're saying is that we're aligning the AS JSON serialization with JSON-LD
00:08:39 [evanp]
But we're not aligning with
00:08:44 [James_M_Snell]
00:08:56 [evanp]
00:09:09 [James_M_Snell]
in the sense that objectType can be viewed as an alias for @type
00:09:32 [evanp]
And we're keeping backwards compatibility to the extent possible
00:09:56 [James_M_Snell]
yes... in fact, I've made it so that every 1.0 thing is still valid in 2.0
00:10:09 [James_M_Snell]
2.0 just provides a few additional options to address some missing pieces... like i18n
00:10:11 [James_M_Snell]
and links
00:10:29 [James_M_Snell]
but those additional things are optional
00:10:53 [gkellogg_]
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00:11:21 [James_M_Snell]
the json-ld alignment just means that it's possible to look at an AS 2.0 thing as if it was JSON-LD, and use that as a means of interpreting it using some other data model
00:11:57 [evanp]
00:12:27 [evanp]
So last question, which might not be appropriate to ask publicly but wth
00:12:36 [James_M_Snell]
go for it
00:12:37 [tantek]
ask away
00:13:06 [evanp]
Is this an alternative to actions, in opposition, or a step in that direction?
00:13:52 [evanp]
I think you showed an example of mixed encoding
00:14:45 [James_M_Snell]
not an alternative.. it's a recognition that there are valid use cases behind that, even if there are problems with's approach to solving them
00:15:35 [James_M_Snell]
AS 2.0 relaxes and simplifies the model, makes it less verbose
00:16:06 [James_M_Snell]
and as a result, it's possible to represent the model in AS 2.0 without breaking compatibility
00:16:38 [James_M_Snell]
originally was heading in a very different direction
00:16:49 [James_M_Snell]
they had an alternative, incompatible json syntax included in the proposal
00:17:20 [jeff_]
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00:17:46 [James_M_Snell]
I pushed back and demonstrated that with just a few tweaks here and there, the existing AS json syntax was more than sufficient
00:17:57 [James_M_Snell]
but really, that's only a small part of it
00:18:20 [James_M_Snell]
for me, the improvements to i18n, links and less-verbosity are far more important
00:18:42 [James_M_Snell]
those are the things IBM's customers and partners have asked for the most
00:19:24 [James_M_Snell]
does that answer the question? :-)
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15:57:15 [wseltzer]
[Day 2: Beginning shortly]
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16:01:15 [Bin_Hu]
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16:02:49 [wseltzer]
Topic: Day 2
16:03:31 [Lloydfassett]
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16:04:34 [wseltzer]
Topic: How Mobile Revolutionizes Social
16:06:30 [bryan]
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16:08:42 [bryan]
do we have a scribe?
16:09:10 [hhalpin]
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16:09:33 [bryan]
not yet
16:09:34 [benwerd]
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16:09:35 [hhalpin]
MarkWeitzel: Intro, schedule
16:09:48 [hhalpin]
MonicaLam: Is there a way to disrupt Facebook?
16:09:52 [hhalpin]
... via the mobile phone?
16:10:01 [hhalpin]
... as the mobile phone has the context and architecture
16:10:06 [hhalpin]
... a few canned social networks
16:10:27 [hhalpin]
... phones are thin clients to social networks, and interaction dictated by cloud service providers
16:10:31 [hhalpin]
... very poor use of a phone
16:10:56 [AnnBassetti]
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16:12:18 [hhalpin]
... the OSM messaging-based network
16:12:25 [hhalpin]
... allows ad-hoc social networks
16:12:28 [hhalpin]
... without servers
16:12:34 [hhalpin]
... the apps consult with phones
16:12:43 [bryan]
no servers anywhere? how does a find b and c?
16:12:45 [hhalpin]
... and then turn into social networks
16:13:13 [hhalpin]
... i'm sure there's servers in the background, just not social network cloud providers
16:13:20 [bryan]
how are messages passed between a and b and c?
16:13:51 [hhalpin]
... this gives a great deal of flexibility towards storage
16:13:58 [Brian_S]
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16:15:37 [hhalpin]
... now for a demo
16:18:05 [hhalpin]
... showing demo of automatic sharing with a group
16:18:10 [hhalpin]
... and group creation on the fly
16:18:20 [hhalpin]
... "Hotspot" group
16:18:57 [bryan]
"this page" implies that there is a server somewhere facilitating the data transfer
16:20:43 [bryan]
the "messaging layer" must require some intermediary system
16:21:37 [James_M_Snell]
Intermediary in theory could be a federated network of independent nodes.. like XMPP or MQTT
16:22:02 [James_M_Snell]
idea is sound, not new, but definitely requires an infrastructure to support it
16:22:16 [aaronpk_]
i'm not clear on how this uses dropbox / gdrive/ whatever to store the data
16:22:19 [hhalpin]
... this leverages the distributed cloudsesrvices but we still own data
16:23:12 [hhalpin]
question: do you have rights management?
16:23:21 [bryan]
what does "sharing" mean - by reference or copy?
16:23:23 [hhalpin]
MonicaLam: Right now we keep it simple, anyone in group can join any other person in group
16:23:35 [hhalpin]
... invite any other person to group
16:23:46 [hhalpin]
... we can also allow pictures to be retracted
16:23:55 [hhalpin]
Ashok: How do you get from email address to phone number?
16:24:01 [AdamB]
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16:24:03 [hhalpin]
MonicaLam: We ask for it on sign-up
16:25:02 [bryan]
sounds like they have replaced one proprietary network with a proprietary app?
16:27:19 [aaronpk]
does it use some sort of peer-to-peer network for communicating or does it still rely on their own service to transport the data?
16:27:31 [hhalpin]
MonicaLam: Always a way to share
16:27:43 [hhalpin]
... existing social networks are good for broad-casting!
16:28:25 [hhalpin]
question: are details of system available?
16:28:37 [hhalpin]
MonicaLam: Company has a propritary version, reserach version is open-source
16:28:42 [hhalpin]
... the API is open of course
16:29:19 [hhalpin]
MonicaLam: We are tackling who holds the data
16:29:26 [hhalpin]
... we are not selling data being shipped through network
16:29:35 [hhalpin]
... we have end-to-end encryption
16:30:09 [hhalpin]
question: where do you store?
16:30:16 [hhalpin]
MonicaLam: We do store and forward, store on Amazon
16:30:27 [bryan]
but they had to disable the encryption as they couldn't provide the same service with it
16:31:14 [tantek]
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16:32:58 [hhalpin]
... how do we communicate with students in a certified way/
16:34:11 [bryan]
many details are unclear here; without a clearly open details on the design and deployment I don't think one could claim that the system, not matter how pretty/functional, is "open"
16:35:17 [MichaelAlexander]
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16:35:20 [bryan]
s/not how/no matter how/
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16:40:23 [hhalpin]
MarkWeitzel: OpenSocial
16:40:28 [hhalpin]
... state of the union
16:40:41 [hhalpin]
AndySmith: We want to share context with app, where it's rendered, but maintain security across iframes
16:41:06 [hhalpin]
MarkW: ActivityStream gets a new expense report, but link jumps me out
16:41:10 [hhalpin]
... lost where I was
16:42:26 [hhalpin]
... we can now keep you in the context
16:42:46 [hhalpin]
... with 2-way bidirectional secure communications that's fundamentally changed the way we get stuff did in social systems
16:42:58 [hhalpin]
... one of the challenge for 3rd party developers, they need to know who the user is
16:43:05 [hhalpin]
... added in API allow developers to extend that
16:43:18 [hhalpin]
... that was 2008-2011
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16:44:05 [hhalpin]
AndySmith: We liked encapsulation of gadgets
16:44:09 [hhalpin]
... challenges to developers
16:44:17 [hhalpin]
... weren't quite like building a normal HTML app
16:44:35 [hhalpin]
... lots of frameworks, so we are interested in HTML5, ShadowDom, etc.
16:44:41 [hhalpin]
... getting some of what we wanted to do with iframes
16:44:46 [hhalpin]
... made things a lot easier
16:44:55 [hhalpin]
... an app model that builds on what browsers provide
16:45:18 [hhalpin]
... how do we share events?
16:46:30 [hhalpin]
.. we are at point where we need to shape those technologies
16:46:38 [hhalpin]
... how do we thoughtfully inject social context and make that available?
16:46:50 [James_M_Snell]
btw, we (IBM) have a working prototype of the web component stuff.. not sure if andy is planning to show it or not... if not, we'll hopefully get it out very soon
16:47:01 [hhalpin]
... what's path to get there?
16:47:14 [hhalpin]
AndySmith: polyfills, what's the gap, partnering with W3C to get there faster
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16:48:02 [tantek]
so where's the OpenSocial presentation gadget?
16:48:16 [James_M_Snell]
tantek: ;-)
16:48:28 [hhalpin]
bethlavender: from Mitre
16:48:35 [hhalpin]
... many of our use-caes are same as we heard yesterday
16:48:37 [hhalpin]
... find experts
16:48:47 [hhalpin]
... situational awareness
16:48:48 [tantek]
James_M_Snell knows dogfooding, do you?
16:49:07 [hhalpin]
... custom social networking site called 'handshake'
16:49:34 [James_M_Snell]
tantek: we use opensocial internally in Notes and Connections
16:49:40 [James_M_Snell]
it needs to improve
16:49:52 [James_M_Snell]
16:50:44 [hhalpin]
... handshake notifications
16:50:47 [hhalpin]
... interesting gadgets
16:50:55 [tantek]
James_M_Snell, but you know my opinion of "use … internally":
16:51:07 [hhalpin]
... integrated activity for the enterprise
16:51:16 [James_M_Snell]
tantek: using internally is how we learn how to best use externally
16:51:24 [hhalpin]
... stream from social networking with business social updates
16:51:36 [tantek]
James_M_Snell - hah - not how standards have flowed in practice.
16:51:37 [James_M_Snell]
we have to get folks to understand it first
16:51:54 [James_M_Snell]
yes, sadly. that's a battle I've been fighting for a while
16:52:15 [tantek]
James_M_Snell - no one has ever won that battle.
16:52:29 [hhalpin]
... we like activities with embeddged gadget
16:52:43 [hhalpin]
... but we still have business portal that lets us look the business at a particular point in time
16:52:54 [hhalpin]
... otherwise, we see the business as activisites occur
16:52:58 [James_M_Snell]
tantek: incremental improvement is best we can hope for. Herd the cats
16:53:02 [hhalpin]
... these are two different paradigms
16:53:11 [hhalpin]
... we do think activitystreams SHOULD be mobile
16:53:20 [hhalpin]
... dealing with things inside encrypted containers
16:53:31 [hhalpin]
... HTML5 browsers
16:53:40 [hhalpin]
... how do we manage noise
16:53:48 [hhalpin]
... subscription process?
16:54:10 [tantek]
James_M_Snell - you're always welcome to join the indieweb: irc:// where we build things incrementally on the open web ;)
16:54:32 [hhalpin]
... we want different versions based on user's amount of time
16:55:18 [James_M_Snell]
tantek: ;-)
16:56:02 [bryan]
will the slides be posted as well as the papers?
16:56:42 [hhalpin]
yes, after the workshop
16:57:04 [bryan]
16:57:04 [hhalpin]
Most people have not sent them in before, thus we can't post them before
16:57:26 [hhalpin]
For example, we got all of these presentations about 2 minutes before panel!
16:57:31 [James_M_Snell]
Sending them in before means folks have to finish them before getting on the plane ;-)
16:57:50 [hhalpin]
Ellen: AppFuisons allows for semi-portable rapid integration
16:58:14 [hhalpin]
... common problems, common issues for document issues
16:59:24 [hhalpin]
... wrking with jive/ibm, and 6 atlassina porduct applications (JIra, stash, ffishaeye)
16:59:43 [hhalpin]
... we've done oAuth/oAuth2 and then Atlassian apps become slave to master of IBM/Jive
17:00:07 [hhalpin]
... our custom applicatin effort we make the standards talk to each other
17:00:59 [hhalpin]
... that is what makes opensocial a huge success
17:02:01 [hhalpin]
... pusing back from Jira to Activitystreams
17:02:55 [hhalpin]
... links that automatically link back to apps
17:04:47 [hhalpin]
... jira/jive integration demo
17:04:59 [tantek]
btw - feel free to add URLs to the presentations to the Etherpad where a bunch of us are taking rough collaborative notes:
17:05:08 [hhalpin]
... works between a number of apps, keeping in one browser
17:05:20 [hhalpin]
... the number of tiles are kinda endless
17:05:33 [hhalpin]
... thanks!
17:07:11 [bret]
Ill log some of this
17:07:20 [bret]
Social api isn't really an api
17:07:23 [bret]
its not really social
17:07:27 [bret]
its just the web
17:07:35 [bret]
in your browser (all slide quotes)
17:08:03 [bret]
put the agent back into "user agent"
17:08:16 [bret]
James_M_Snell: this is for you :)
17:08:22 [hhalpin]
ShaneCaraveo: Mozilla Social API is not really a API
17:08:25 [James_M_Snell]
bret: :-)
17:08:31 [hhalpin]
Scribenick: bret
17:08:40 [aaronpk]
now it's official
17:08:46 [bret]
solve common tasks in the browser
17:09:04 [bret]
how do we make communication capabilities better [in the browser]
17:09:18 [bret]
17:09:46 [bret]
Shane: its all the web, avoid opinions about exiting social networks
17:10:39 [bret]
Shane: did a table session asking the question, if the web browser did x, what would that allow you as an implementer of a social network do
17:10:51 [andybs]
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17:11:08 [bret]
Shane: what could you do if your agent could do more
17:11:15 [James_M_Snell]
Main Question: Have any efforts been made to convince other browsers to pick this up? Work on a standard cross-browser api? How have the other browser vendors responded?
17:11:31 [bret]
Shane: current features, sidebar, notifycations, social bookmarking, share, chat windows, persistent web workers
17:11:37 [bret]
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17:12:12 [bret]
James_M_Snell: from last night, not much yet, but full intentions to do so once its more mature
17:12:36 [bret]
Shane: brought in a number of social networks, including facebook
17:13:22 [bret]
Shane: social bookmarking will be in FF26
17:13:48 [bret]
Shane: FB and google hangouts can be extracted out of a particular browser tab
17:14:16 [bret]
Shane: App tabs become buttons on the chrome
17:14:26 [bret]
browser chrome*
17:14:48 [bret]
Shane: notifications show up on the buttons
17:15:15 [bret]
Shane: each button can have a notification flyout to provide a stream of data
17:16:08 [bret]
Shane: oexchange is used in the share button in FF23 (landed)
17:16:16 [bret]
Shane: examples of chat windows
17:16:35 [bret]
Shane: showing prototype webRTC chat client using social API
17:16:42 [bret]
(slides of prototype)
17:16:59 [Kelvin_Lawrence]
I have the same question that James asked just above about cross browser support etc.
17:17:30 [bret]
I asked shane last night and he says yes, he wants that but he is not actively seeking it yet until the new version is live and working
17:17:42 [bret]
Ok hhalpin I'm all done :)
17:18:12 [Kelvin_Lawrence]
Unless all the browsers pick one approach we are back to #ifdef hell again
17:18:38 [James_M_Snell]
Kelvin: things like polymer and web components can get us part of the way there
17:18:48 [James_M_Snell]
but even those suffer cross-browser issues
17:19:11 [James_M_Snell]
I view this as one of *the* major gaps
17:19:22 [Kelvin_Lawrence]
17:19:45 [mixedpuppy]
I should have said; google hangouts could be extracted out if google supported this
17:19:49 [James_M_Snell]
mozilla is spot on, our user agents need to have a better understanding of our identity, our context and our services and learn to communicate that better to the services we use
17:22:03 [tantek]
OH: "I'm not here as a representative of Google"
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17:23:47 [James_M_Snell]
TODO: reconcile mozilla social API, web intents, Activity handlers, and open social
17:27:29 [tantek]
James_M_Snell, you can drop web intents from that list since Google itself dropped it.
17:28:33 [James_M_Snell]
tantek: I don't care so much about what google has done, the idea is still relevant.
17:28:54 [tantek]
James_M_Snell - nah, it was never a cohesive idea - tried to do to much.
17:29:07 [James_M_Snell]
in that specific form, yes
17:29:21 [tantek]
the relevant use cases are now being developed with Web Actions (buttons on websites) and Web Activities (delegation on/to mobile web apps)
17:29:31 [tantek]
so you may want to check those out (both googleable)
17:29:39 [mixedpuppy]
we have web activities in FFOS
17:29:50 [tantek]
17:29:50 [James_M_Snell]
yep, already on my follow lists ;-)
17:29:55 [mixedpuppy]
it will eventually make it to desktop
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17:47:15 [tantek]
wow, DNT trolling?
17:49:13 [tantek]
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17:53:41 [AnnBassetti]
Lloyd Fassett: cool stuff being done with Open Social .. what's the linkage across apps, HTML5, in future?
17:54:07 [wseltzer]
17:54:20 [AnnBassetti]
answer: that's why we're here .. to figure out what more can / should be done .. Open Social not in HTML5, that's coming
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18:14:48 [AnnBassetti]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:14:48 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate AnnBassetti
18:15:50 [AnnBassetti]
uh oh .. doesn't look like the minutes worked properly ... can someone check, and make sure we don't lose all of this morning's notes?
18:16:06 [bret]
hhalpin: sorry about screwing up the scribe format. I didn't realize there was a standard way to do it
18:16:12 [aaronpk]
it's all there, but it didn't register hhalpin as a scribe for the first part
18:18:24 [wseltzer]
i/Intro, schedule/scribenick: hhalpin/
18:18:33 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:18:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wseltzer
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18:22:13 [AnnBassetti]
demo post
18:22:52 [AnnBassetti]
18:24:51 [AnnBassetti]
s/demo post//
18:25:08 [AnnBassetti]
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Hey all! Sam Goto here, from! I wanted to make sure some of the (extremely valid) questions raised yesterday that I left unaswered were addressed and that an open channel with the community is kept! I invited Guha, a much more informed person than my self, to come up speak at OSF/W3C and I think Harry was able to accomodate to that and is coordinating something! Stay tuned for updates!
18:35:09 [wseltzer]
goto: thanks!
18:37:41 [goto]
I think there has been some confusion and miscommunication on our part, and i sincerely apologize if we are not being clear. I feel personally committed to clarify some of the concerns and comments raised around licensing and the ability to consume data freely, and Guha will hopefully make that clearer to you.
18:38:14 [goto]
I have a plane to catch at 7pm today at SFO, so I might not be able to come join you in person f2f, but I do wanted to make myself available to follow up on any of the technical concerns you may have.
18:38:17 [AnnBassetti]
scribenick: AnnBassetti
18:38:19 [wseltzer]
I'm sure the group will appreciate it
18:38:33 [wseltzer]
Topic: Running Code
18:38:49 [goto]
You can drop me an email at any time and I'm more than happy to come up to the city to meet you on another opportunity! See you all, Sam
18:39:13 [AnnBassetti]
Tantek Çelik ..
18:39:20 [AnnBassetti]
IndieWeb demo
18:39:29 [hhalpin]
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18:39:49 [AnnBassetti]
you need to ownur own data, esp. now with NSA
18:39:50 [AnnBassetti]
18:40:12 [hhalpin]
scribenick: AnnBassetti
18:40:28 [AnnBassetti]
permalinks still can't do on Twitter
18:40:54 [AnnBassetti]
18:40:59 [AnnBassetti]
1. Own your own data
18:41:09 [AnnBassetti]
2. Eat your own dogfood
18:41:37 [AnnBassetti]
'self dogfooding = using your own dogfood, on your own domain
18:41:51 [AnnBassetti]
forces you to simplify, etc
18:41:56 [aaronpk]
once you carry your own ego along with your code by self-dogfooding it helps you figure out what you really care about
18:42:26 [AnnBassetti]
3. POSSE = Publish Own Site, Syndicate Elsewhere
18:42:40 [AnnBassetti]
your info is no good, if people don't read it
18:42:47 [AnnBassetti]
get out of your own silo
18:43:24 [AnnBassetti]
own your own data, but syndicate out to places / silos where your friends 'live'
18:43:49 [AnnBassetti]
he's got apps for these purposes
18:44:03 [AnnBassetti]
this is the core of what "IndieWeb" is about
18:44:42 [AnnBassetti]
Tantek makes plea for people to show their own domain name, on their #osfw3c badges
18:44:48 [AnnBassetti]
18:45:02 [AnnBassetti]
Aaron Parecki ...
18:45:15 [AnnBassetti]
IndieAuth .. distributed identity for web
18:45:38 [AnnBassetti]
you are online all over, you have your own web site ...
18:45:40 [Keith]
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18:46:05 [AnnBassetti]
typically you are asked to authenticate via Facebook, et al.
18:46:05 [AnnBassetti]
BUT .. then you're locked into them
18:46:36 [AnnBassetti]
if you have your own web site .. then that can be your identity
18:47:16 [Ashok_Malhotra]
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18:47:20 [AnnBassetti]
supports new auth mechanisms .. Mozilla Persona, SMS verification, and <1 other>
18:47:25 [AnnBassetti]
18:47:29 [shh]
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18:48:10 [AnnBassetti]
has google authenticator app on his watch ..
18:49:42 [AnnBassetti]
IndieAuth server goes to his personal web site
18:49:53 [AnnBassetti]
looks for known auth providers .. he chooses one
18:50:00 [AnnBassetti]
<see his slides for more>
18:50:38 [AnnBassetti]
now delegating to OAuth provider .. in this case GitHub
18:51:49 [AnnBassetti]
currently this idea relies on IndieAuth server
18:51:58 [AnnBassetti]
yes .. but you could run your own
18:52:36 [AnnBassetti]
you can delegate your personal domain to whichever indieauth provider you want
18:52:48 [AnnBassetti]
more info at
18:53:16 [AnnBassetti]
don't send email; do it online, in order to converse in public
18:53:21 [AnnBassetti]
18:54:17 [AnnBassetti]
Bret Comnes, PhD student in Oregon, participating in IndieWeb
18:54:36 [AnnBassetti]
18:55:00 [AnnBassetti]
indieWeb commenting on static web site
18:55:29 [AnnBassetti] and
18:57:02 [AnnBassetti]
demo making comments on Aaron Parecki's site
18:58:47 [Ashok_Malhotra]
I THINK he is talking about how to add comments to GitHub pages
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18:59:24 [AnnBassetti]
19:00:07 [AnnBassetti]
Evan Prodromou ..
19:00:29 [AnnBassetti]
activity stream server .. models social network with REST api
19:01:59 [AnnBassetti]
every activity has subject / verb / object ... also an audience target
19:02:53 [AnnBassetti]
various types of audiences
19:03:04 [AnnBassetti]
with varying degrees of 'openness'
19:03:18 [AnnBassetti]
streams in are ways of grouping activities
19:03:29 [AnnBassetti]
in reverse chronological order
19:04:03 [AnnBassetti]
separates 'major' and 'minor' activities
19:04:54 [AnnBassetti]
REST api for uses JSON representation
19:05:09 [AnnBassetti]
endpoints for each stream
19:05:16 [AnnBassetti]
all streams readable
19:05:20 [AnnBassetti]
some streams writable
19:05:27 [AnnBassetti]
streams filtered by audience
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19:05:48 [AnnBassetti]
<see slides for more details>
19:06:26 [AnnBassetti]
inbox / outbox / direct inbox
19:07:37 [AnnBassetti]
social graph = who follows whom, contact lists, member of group(s), participation in activities
19:07:51 [AnnBassetti]
social graph changes based on what you send into the system
19:08:35 [AnnBassetti]
social graph visible via REST api
19:09:19 [AnnBassetti] intended to be web-based social network , adding activity stream to apps, embedded activity
19:09:27 [AnnBassetti]
interest from mobile developers
19:09:47 [AnnBassetti]
19:10:33 [tantek]
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19:12:22 [AnnBassetti]
web UI allows OAuth login
19:13:15 [AnnBassetti]
Apache licensed
19:13:32 [AnnBassetti]
python, Java, javascript libraries ...
19:13:39 [AnnBassetti]
19:14:29 [fmondin]
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19:14:39 [AnnBassetti]
Ben Werdmuller ...... Indieweb as minimum viable social platform
19:14:46 [AnnBassetti]
19:14:56 [AnnBassetti]
a social publishing platform
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easy to use, easy to extend, easy to install ...
19:15:19 [bret]
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19:15:26 [AnnBassetti]
grew out of his experience with Elgg
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an open source social networking platform ...
19:15:49 [AnnBassetti]
e.g., in universities, non-profits, govts, .....
19:16:04 [AnnBassetti]
social programming toolkit
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BUT doesn't support modern front-end formats such as microformats
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nor HTML5
19:16:58 [AnnBassetti]
therefore he wanted to replace it
19:17:18 [AnnBassetti]
wanted to re-think, based on what's going on now
19:17:36 [AnnBassetti]
dangers when building social platform in enterprise...
19:17:59 [AnnBassetti]
-- putting technology before usability
19:18:24 [AnnBassetti]
-- investing a lot before testing your ideas
19:18:50 [AnnBassetti]
-- developing neat solutions that don't have a user problem
19:19:04 [AnnBassetti]
-- not shipping; not getting your cool software out
19:19:12 [AnnBassetti]
summary: put your users first
19:19:26 [AnnBassetti]
thus he likes IndieWeb
19:19:35 [AnnBassetti]
no one owns or organizes it
19:19:47 [AnnBassetti]
uses widely-adopted standards
19:20:23 [AnnBassetti]
IndieWeb allowed him to test Idno quickly
19:20:51 [AnnBassetti]
19:21:15 [James_M_Snell]
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19:24:17 [AnnBassetti]
Idno also works well on mobiles ..
19:24:23 [AnnBassetti]
no apps; just HTML5
19:25:11 [AnnBassetti]
19:25:54 [AnnBassetti]
Patrick Deegan .... Open Mustard Seed
19:26:51 [AnnBassetti]
company = ID3 ...
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19:27:39 [AnnBassetti]
develop new social ecosystem of trusted self-healing digital institutions
19:28:27 [AnnBassetti]
Open Mustard Seed (OMS) Trustworthy Compute Framework (TCF) extends core functionality of personal data stores
19:28:33 [AnnBassetti]
REST apis
19:28:46 [AnnBassetti]
<see slides for lots of attributes>
19:29:08 [AnnBassetti]
19:29:29 [AnnBassetti]
sort of an operating system for the cloud
19:29:57 [AnnBassetti]
Trusted Application Bundles .. contain instructions for how to deploy and maintain applications
19:30:28 [AnnBassetti]
App Deployment Pattern .. auto setup by script, creating Trusted Compute Cell
19:31:20 [AnnBassetti]
each Trusted Compute Cell is composed of several applications ...
19:31:33 [AnnBassetti]
persona-based access control
19:31:54 [AnnBassetti]
follows Jericho Forum's identity commandments
19:31:59 [AnnBassetti]
API security
19:32:10 [AnnBassetti]
<all slides have lots more details>
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19:32:48 [AnnBassetti]
native app for authentication
19:34:06 [AnnBassetti]
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19:39:06 [AnnBassetti]
19:39:15 [AnnBassetti]
end of IndieWeb demos
19:39:39 [AnnBassetti]
HarryHalpin: will have working lunch to tease out "next steps"
19:39:52 [AnnBassetti]
19:40:25 [AnnBassetti]
Theodoros __??__ : about access control transform
19:40:54 [AnnBassetti]
Patrick Deegan: <describes how it works>
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19:42:45 [AnnBassetti]
Q: what kind of format to call your rules?
19:42:49 [AnnBassetti]
19:44:09 [AnnBassetti]
EvanP: OStatus was talked about re: federated social web in last few years ... what's up with that now?
19:45:19 [AnnBassetti]
Tantek: looked at some PHP library for security .. was too huge, couldn't trust
19:46:55 [AnnBassetti]
.... because we're doing this stuff for ourselves, has to be super simple ...
19:47:10 [tantek]
looked at PHP library for consuming OpenID was too big, gave up, came up with RelMeAuth, which IndieAuth is based on
19:47:15 [AnnBassetti]
OStatus = suite of protocols used to enable social netoworking
19:47:32 [tantek]
looked at ActivityStreams, was more than we needed for absolute minimum, used minimal microformats instead (h-entry h-card)
19:47:50 [AnnBassetti]
PubSubHubBub ... ... Salmon ... Webfinger
19:47:57 [AnnBassetti]
(EvanP explaining)
19:48:01 [tantek]
though I implemented ActivityStreams on my site, don't know who consumes it
19:48:12 [AnnBassetti]
those are the 4 components of OStatus stack
19:48:15 [tantek]
looked at PubsubHubbub (actually implemented it) but again, not being used in indieweb protocols
19:48:20 [AnnBassetti]
published in 2010
19:48:24 [James_M_Snell]
We definitely need more activitystreams consumers
19:48:31 [tantek]
indieweb is using webmention (evolution of Pingback) instead of Salmon / PuSH
19:48:50 [James_M_Snell]
lots of places can generate Activity statements... very few understand how to use them
19:48:54 [AnnBassetti]
has server API but no client API ... has been an issue
19:48:59 [AnnBassetti]
no distribution control
19:49:06 [AnnBassetti]
.. also a prob
19:49:59 [AnnBassetti]
great as first step, test out some of those protocols ... now people looking elsewhere for next iteration
19:50:35 [AnnBassetti]
Tantek: now looking at WebMention ... replaces some bit of Salmon and PubSubHubbub
19:50:55 [AnnBassetti]
HarryHalpin: gives instructions for working lunch
19:51:28 [AnnBassetti]
how to thread all of discussions this far, together?
19:51:49 [AnnBassetti]
go around room for ideas on topics for discussion
19:51:55 [AnnBassetti]
will continue after lunch in focus groups
19:52:06 [AnnBassetti]
particularly on standards needed
19:52:15 [James_M_Snell]
in reality, how is different from PingBack/TrackBack
19:52:31 [tantek]
James_M_Snell - everything you wanted in PingBack and less :)
19:52:35 [tantek]
19:52:40 [tantek]
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19:53:12 [James_M_Snell]
of course, none of that is actually necessary
19:53:41 [AnnBassetti]
1. Federated Web design patterns ...
19:53:47 [tantek]
feel free to use our Etherpad:
19:53:49 [James_M_Snell]
tantek: have you seen
19:54:12 [tantek]
IETF drafts? dude, way too much boilerplate noise to bother reading
19:54:19 [tantek]
need to put things on a simple & clear wiki ;)
19:54:45 [James_M_Snell]
skip ahead to
19:54:47 [tantek]
please add your names in the right column
19:54:49 [James_M_Snell]
it's even HTML for you
19:54:50 [tantek]
of the Etherpad:
19:55:00 [tantek]
James_M_Snell - will queue it for later reading
19:55:04 [AnnBassetti]
Topics for discussion:
19:55:22 [James_M_Snell]
simple version: LINK /foo HTTP/1.1
19:55:35 [AnnBassetti]
-- Design patterns around Federated Social Web / IndieWeb
19:55:38 [James_M_Snell]
Link: <http://whatever>; rel="tag"
19:55:55 [James_M_Snell]
creates a link between /foo and http://whatever
19:55:57 [tantek]
can we show the etherpad instead since it's collaboriate?
19:56:43 [aaronpk]
topic: how can we make the indieweb for social business?
19:57:00 [AnnBassetti]
-- how to make this all work for social a BUSINESS ... which is not as simple as IndieWeb folks think
19:57:00 [aaronpk]
I think benwerd and tantek and myself would be more than happy to discuss this
19:57:36 [AnnBassetti]
-- how to solve today's probs versus further out?
19:57:51 [tantek]
AnnBassetti - short answer from me - Enterprise ignored HTML+HTTP+URL in 1992 as well - we're in the early days of IndieWeb tech. give it a few years and when it's spread on the open web, it'll likely be mature enough for enterprise as well
19:57:55 [AnnBassetti]
-- gadgets in relation to new web technologies
19:58:29 [AnnBassetti]
-- EvanP: future of Activity Streams
19:58:49 [AnnBassetti]
-- EvanP: federation of social systems across enterprise
19:59:26 [AnnBassetti]
-- identity and profile federation
19:59:31 [AnnBassetti]
-- analytics
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19:59:56 [James_M_Snell]
EvanP: if there's a future of activity streams discussion let's find a way for me to either call in or do a hangout or whatever
20:00:29 [AnnBassetti]
-- how to visualize our social graph / social network analysis
20:00:43 [AnnBassetti]
-- linked data, description of skill sets
20:00:57 [AnnBassetti]
-- property graph
20:01:12 [AnnBassetti]
-- how to represent roles?
20:01:42 [AnnBassetti]
--- how to get on IndieWeb and what are the barriers?
20:01:43 [tantek]
IndieWeb how-to or issues
20:01:57 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Perhaps combine Property Graphs with Analytics
20:10:03 [AnnBassetti]
-- -------------------------
20:10:06 [AnnBassetti]
20:10:33 [AnnBassetti]
rrsagent, make minutes
20:10:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate AnnBassetti
20:31:07 [James_M_Snell]
FYI... just thoughts re: WebMention ...
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22:05:41 [wseltzer]
22:05:56 [wseltzer]
Topic: Return from Breakouts
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22:08:15 [AnnB]
22:08:32 [hhalpin]
scribenick: hhalpin
22:08:50 [hhalpin]
MarkWeitzel: Radical simplification
22:09:00 [hhalpin]
... leverage the Web Components
22:09:03 [hhalpin]
... and the W3C
22:09:09 [hhalpin]
... in turn of apps themselves
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... xml+gadget defintion
22:09:40 [Theodoros]
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22:09:45 [hhalpin]
... where you just built a HTML page generated by Shindig
22:10:00 [Theodoros]
22:10:02 [hhalpin]
... to a situation where you perform AJAX requests directly against the page
22:10:20 [hhalpin]
... where there's a rigidly described set of patterns to a situation where app developers can do whatever they want
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22:10:39 [hhalpin]
scribenick: Theodoros
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22:10:57 [AnnB]
scribenick: Theodoros
22:11:28 [Theodoros]
cross origin management
22:11:33 [Theodoros]
is important
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22:11:47 [Theodoros]
as well as data context within the browser
22:12:01 [Theodoros]
application tags or the equivalent should be supported
22:12:21 [Theodoros]
22:12:34 [Theodoros]
next is property graphs
22:12:38 [Theodoros]
and analytics
22:12:51 [hhalpin]
steve: distinct from rdf
22:12:57 [Theodoros]
the foundamental data model for property graphs
22:12:59 [Theodoros]
should be defined
22:13:03 [Theodoros]
as well as APIs
22:13:12 [Theodoros]
and schemas to help data modelers
22:13:20 [Theodoros]
to define property graphs for their applications
22:13:36 [Theodoros]
work with open social
22:13:46 [Theodoros]
to find out domains for working together
22:13:53 [Theodoros]
and how property graphs can be exploited
22:14:03 [Theodoros]
security, privacy, internationalization
22:14:10 [Theodoros]
are themes for potential cooperation
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22:14:38 [AnnB]
22:14:54 [AnnB]
Tantek .. IndieWeb
22:15:18 [Theodoros]
focus is ux challenge
22:15:41 [Theodoros]
to make it much easier using reply buttons
22:15:52 [Theodoros]
integrated to the indie web
22:16:12 [Theodoros]
what can the browser do for sharing buttons
22:16:25 [Theodoros]
like a web action tag
22:16:45 [Theodoros]
social api share includes an example
22:16:54 [Theodoros]
from mozilla
22:17:10 [Theodoros]
that can be utilized
22:17:15 [Theodoros]
by indie web team
22:17:34 [Theodoros]
visible tags from indieweb will get in the next release
22:17:46 [AnnB]
they asked, "where is next biggest UX pain point, and how can we solve it"
22:18:02 [Theodoros]
22:18:16 [Theodoros]
activity streams is next
22:18:29 [Theodoros]
what are common use cases to be considered
22:18:40 [Theodoros]
one is to handle state
22:18:48 [Theodoros]
some markup will be posted on how to do this
22:19:12 [Theodoros]
from the discussion team
22:19:22 [Theodoros]
a new version of activity streams is proposed
22:19:29 [Theodoros]
to support json-ld
22:19:39 [Theodoros]
(activity stream 2.0)
22:19:55 [Theodoros]
to help consumers of jason-ld through streams
22:20:10 [AnnB]
Monica Wilkinson giving overview
22:20:12 [Theodoros]
using the @ property and alias from jason ld
22:20:56 [James_M_Snell]
activity streams 2.0 aligns with json-ld, but does not depend on it
22:21:13 [James_M_Snell]
that is... the spec details how the two can be used together for those who need it
22:21:22 [Theodoros]
22:21:31 [Theodoros]
profile federation team is next
22:21:46 [Theodoros]
focus of the discussion is roles
22:22:05 [Theodoros]
- the need to federated profiles and multiple personas
22:22:05 [AnnB]
need to federate profiles across systems
22:22:18 [Theodoros]
content federation
22:22:22 [Theodoros]
profile management
22:22:29 [Theodoros]
are example of desired features
22:22:50 [Theodoros]
defining a set of core attributes
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22:23:13 [Theodoros]
inspired by microformats example
22:23:30 [Theodoros]
also standrard attributes can be defined
22:23:44 [Theodoros]
not as part of standardization but their linking to ontologies
22:23:53 [Theodoros]
(skill levels, certifications)
22:24:18 [Theodoros]
federation across systems would be a desired feature
22:24:38 [Theodoros]
pubsub can provide some ideas
22:24:59 [tantek]
22:25:08 [Theodoros]
discussion should follow on the data definitions for extended attributes
22:25:14 [Theodoros]
22:25:32 [Theodoros]
discussion on concensus follows
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22:26:10 [Theodoros]
open social revision will most probably follow
22:26:24 [Theodoros]
activity streams will also be revised
22:26:53 [Theodoros]
there is a lot of interest for domain specific vocabularies for profiles
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22:27:43 [Theodoros]
external data formats will be leveraged
22:28:42 [Theodoros]
discussion about commitment to move forward with next steps
22:29:30 [Theodoros]
questions on whether should be one or two groups to followup
22:29:43 [wseltzer]
hhalpin: activity streams, custom vocabularies (profile data), pubsub, opensocial version next
22:30:14 [James_M_Snell]
Activity Streams 2.0 revision is largely done really, at least in my opinion
22:30:27 [Theodoros]
asha describes plan for property graphs
22:30:53 [Theodoros]
start work about standardizing data and API
22:31:08 [Theodoros]
and then the words/schemas that can be used by web developers
22:31:37 [Theodoros]
a community group will be started for property graphs
22:32:53 [Theodoros]
establish a property graph model and API
22:33:12 [Theodoros]
agree on how to express schema for the property graph so that this is interoperable
22:33:18 [Theodoros]
work with open social
22:33:27 [Theodoros]
to define ontologies related
22:33:30 [Theodoros]
to social
22:33:35 [tantek]
"a schema to describe a property graph that will be interoperable and then terms and ontologies that will be social, and a relationship with RDF, what didn't work, and then there's a bunch of concerns"
22:34:33 [Theodoros]
there will be a break for 15 min
22:34:43 [wseltzer]
22:34:45 [Theodoros]
and then next steps will be discussed for the rest
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22:42:28 [AnnB]
s/asha/Ashok Malhotra/
23:04:32 [Theodoros]
23:04:42 [Theodoros]
discussion has resumed
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23:04:56 [Theodoros]
10 people interested
23:05:05 [Theodoros]
in community group for property graphs
23:06:15 [Theodoros]
8 people are interested in activity streams2.0/JASON-LD
23:06:20 [gkellogg]
+1 to property graphs
23:06:38 [gkellogg]
+1 to ActivityStreams2/JSON-LD
23:06:56 [KevinMarks]
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23:06:57 [Theodoros]
10 people interested in OpenSocial on top of webcomponents with activity streams
23:07:10 [lehawes]
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23:07:41 [Theodoros]
12 people interested in profiles vocabularies and public subscription model
23:07:41 [AdamB]
+1 on Profile PubSub activity
23:07:45 [Bill_Christian]
+1 activity streams
23:08:22 [Theodoros]
11 people interested in SocialBusiness Reference architecture document
23:08:23 [MRC]
+1 on architecture document
23:08:40 [lehawes]
+1 on Profiles and Overall Architecture
23:08:54 [AnnB]
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23:09:29 [Theodoros]
13 people interested to develop vocabularies for social business uses
23:10:16 [MRC]
23:10:23 [Theodoros]
23:10:24 [Theodoros]
final comments on anything leaving out on the joint technical strategy
23:10:48 [DonB_]
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23:11:22 [Theodoros]
push the boundaries on browser cross origin model
23:11:32 [Theodoros]
is interesting for next followups
23:14:03 [Theodoros]
the social business community will be used to invite attendees
23:14:14 [Theodoros]
report will become available in about one month
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23:15:09 [tantek]
please feel free to note that in the minutes
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23:15:32 [Theodoros]
1st week of september will be milestone for the report
23:15:33 [tantek]
add suggestions / requests to for IndieWeb
23:15:36 [AnnB]
Social Business Community Group:
23:15:42 [AnnB]
go join
23:15:43 [KevinMarks]
first week of september is when the next indiewebcamp is as well
23:15:47 [Theodoros]
23:15:57 [Theodoros]
discussion about vocabularies follows
23:16:23 [AnnB]
also put your name in here (IRC), with which subject you want to work on
23:16:48 [Ashok_Malhotra]
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23:17:03 [hhalpin]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
23:17:03 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate hhalpin
23:17:11 [AnnB]
(if you didn't already do a +1 on some subject)
23:17:34 [Ashok_Malhotra]
If you raised your hand for the Property Graphs work please email me at
23:17:43 [steveb] - property graphs, activity streams 2.0, social business vocabularies
23:17:59 [Theodoros]
[OPENi team] Interested to be part of the community for property graphs and social business reference architectrure document
23:18:01 [mgmarum]
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23:18:29 [Theodoros]
discussion about
23:18:37 [AnnB]
I will probably try to find someone else within Boeing for property graphs, Ashok
23:18:51 [Ashok_Malhotra]
Great, Ann!
23:18:51 [AnnB]
(you can put me on the list, but I'm not the best participant)
23:19:33 [Theodoros]
the schema license is for putting data on a page not for parsing
23:20:30 [Theodoros]
the license scope is for vocabularies
23:20:45 [tantek]
people are confused
23:21:30 [Theodoros]
google will followup to make the license terms clearer
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23:22:11 [bret]
A) Why can't they use a more open licence B) Will this FAQ hold up in court?
23:22:21 [bret]
23:22:33 [tantek]
wseltzer_cloud - since Guha confronted someone about not being a lawyer - I think it's up to you
23:23:12 [mfranklin] - property graphs, activity streams 2.0, social business architecture, OpenSocial.NEXT
23:26:40 [tantek]
bret - OGP uses OWFa, so should
23:27:34 [bret]
I, unfortunately, am not fully up to speed on all the license types
23:27:48 [AdamB]
are these the correct terms being discussed:
23:27:53 [James_M_Snell]
Suggestion to the google guys: Go back, review the licensing and how it's communicated, do a rev and make it better
23:27:56 [bret]
someone feel free to bring up the more specific point
23:28:13 [tantek]
AdamB - yeah - commentary here:
23:28:28 [James_M_Snell]
if it's just a matter of not being communicated properly, then work on communicating better
23:28:36 [tantek]
James_M_Snell - yeah - their TOS is highly suspicious right now.
23:29:21 [tantek]
easiest thing would be to adopt a standard license like OWFa rather than a one-off
23:29:32 [tantek]
go Monica
23:29:49 [tantek]
Monica is raising the point that was NOT open about forking ActivityStreams
23:29:54 [KevinMarks]
give monica the mic
23:30:08 [bret]
23:30:29 [tantek]
interesting - asking for folks to come work on the w3c list
23:30:40 [James_M_Snell] Activity proposed emerged over a year and a half ago
23:30:43 [James_M_Snell]
I called them out on it
23:30:55 [James_M_Snell]
told them to go to publicly
23:31:03 [James_M_Snell]
didn't hear anything else about it for a year
23:31:22 [James_M_Snell]
then they still didn't go to community until I kept pushing
23:31:38 [James_M_Snell]
so the process leaves a lot to be desired
23:32:01 [James_M_Snell]
but current end result is at least compatible with AS 2.0 approach, they can coexist peacefully and usefully
23:32:46 [tantek]
James_M_Snell - did the folks themselves use the w3c public-vocabs list for Activities, or did they do it in private?
23:32:49 [tantek]
*their fork
23:32:59 [James_M_Snell]
Yes and no
23:33:15 [bret]
ITs rather arrogant!
23:33:20 [jeff]
The public-vocabs CG is open
23:33:24 [James_M_Snell]
there was public discussion on public-vocabs, but lots appears to have been done off list
23:34:07 [James_M_Snell]
but to their credit, they were very receptive of feedback
23:34:13 [bret]
Put it on github/bitbucket if its open to participation
23:34:14 [James_M_Snell]
and made significant changes when I pushed back
23:34:18 [tantek]
just searched public-vocabs and all I found was your post James__Snell from May 28
23:34:41 [tantek]
23:34:43 [tantek]
zero follow-up
23:35:20 [Theodoros]
23:35:31 [mfranklin]
so not a standards body or legal entity, yet it is called
23:35:45 [lloydfassett]
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23:36:38 [mfranklin]
and people think of it as such
23:36:57 [lehawes]
It's a shame that the rift is casting a dark shadow on the good, positive work that has been accomplished in this workshop
23:37:10 [tantek]
"just 4 companies, and no one has a say"
23:37:11 [lehawes]
Can we please find a way to end on a positive note?
23:37:18 [tantek]
no one *else
23:37:22 [James_M_Snell]
tantek: like I said, their process leaves a lot to be desired
23:37:31 [tantek]
lehawes i hope so too
23:37:38 [jeff]
Good point Lehawes. We'll go to summary after Tantek's question.
23:40:58 [AnnB]
/me +1 Gregg
23:42:01 [AnnB]
Wendy gives lawyers a much better name
23:42:03 [lehawes]
Agree, AnnB, but he shouldn't be so defensive. Coming in with a bit of humility would have gone a long way. :>)
23:42:06 [bret]
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23:42:57 [AnnB]
yes, true .... we could usually all use more humility
23:43:34 [AnnB]
I appreciate Harry's effort to wrap up on a better note
23:43:47 [tantek]
AnnB me too
23:43:49 [jeff]
23:44:00 [Theodoros]
consistent vocabularies with consistent process is the common goal
23:44:07 [tantek]
thank you wselzter
23:44:56 [AnnB]
I also appreciate Guha clearing his calendar to come into the lion's den
23:46:15 [tantek]
AnnB - given Google's market position they're more the lion
23:46:16 [lehawes]
+1 federated profiles
23:46:19 [MichaelAlexander]
+1 (Profile Data Federation)
23:46:38 [AdamB]
+1 I'm in
23:46:39 [lloydfassett]
+1 profiles
23:46:40 [James_M_Snell]
Takeaway: If Google wants to play a key role in this social arena, it needs to do a much better job at clarifying and communicating their position, and about being open
23:46:41 [AnnB]
Mark Bryant = +1
23:46:47 [AnnB]
(from Boeing
23:47:10 [Kelvin]
I'm happy to help drive the graph discussion
23:47:25 [Bill_Christian]
+1 Activity Streams
23:47:28 [MattMarum]
+1 OpenSocial
23:47:28 [mfranklin]
calling for volunteers
23:47:33 [gkellogg]
+1 Activiety Streams
23:47:46 [bret]
James_M_Snell: I think its clear they prefer to just dictate. There is clearly resistance to outside input, and the fact that there is even an outside
23:47:56 [AdamB]
I'll lead the Profile Data Federation
23:48:00 [gkellogg]
23:48:07 [Theodoros]
+1 property graphs
23:48:12 [lehawes]
+1 Social Business Reference Document
23:48:12 [gkellogg]
+1 Property Graphs
23:48:33 [James_M_Snell]
bret: we shall see, they either need to put up or shut up, in the meantime everything else will keep moving forward
23:48:48 [AnnB]
maybe someone from Boeing for property graphs (if I can find someone)
23:49:11 [KevinMarks]
+1 Activity Streams
23:49:24 [tantek]
feel free to use the Etherpad as well
23:49:26 [KevinMarks]
+1 Profiles spec discussion again
23:49:27 [Kelvin]
I am also interested in the schemas/types discussion as it plays into the graph discussion
23:49:32 [MichaelAlexander]
+1 Social Busines Vocab Modelling (Expertise first/focus)
23:49:49 [KevinMarks]
iie +1 Social Business Vocab Modelling
23:50:04 [MattMarum]
+1 property graphs
23:50:20 [AdamB]
+1 Social Busines Vocab Modelling (Expertise first/focus)
23:50:47 [KevinMarks]
what si the URL?
23:50:53 [KevinMarks]
can't see from here
23:51:08 [bret]
I originally put micro data + schema on my site. Besides being a couple pain in the ass, it was a ton of work and literally, the tool set, community, and documentation/samples just didn't exist. In less time than it took remove the MD+schema, I implemented uF2 and have found way more applications for my effort
23:51:16 [bret]
23:51:22 [MattMarum]
23:51:28 [tantek]
bret - you should blog that ;)
23:51:34 [tantek]
23:52:23 [tantek]
"… thanks to the indieweb people for showing up even though the enterprise initially scared them" [LOL]
23:52:24 [tantek]
23:52:57 [bret]
Olds just don't get it :p
23:53:01 [benwerd]
who's scared? I'm ready to embrace!
23:53:17 [bret]
(only teasing)
23:55:57 [tantek]
(aside: thanks to KevinMarks found another thread on public-vocabs: )
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04:51:39 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, make minutes
04:51:39 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate wseltzer
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