IRC log of html-media on 2013-08-06

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:41 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:57:41 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:57:43 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:43 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #html-media
14:57:45 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 63342
14:57:45 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:46 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:57:46 [trackbot]
Date: 06 August 2013
14:59:16 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:24 [Zakim]
14:59:26 [Zakim]
14:59:36 [glenn]
zakim, ??p6 is me
14:59:36 [Zakim]
+glenn; got it
14:59:55 [pal]
pal has joined #html-media
15:00:03 [Zakim]
15:00:12 [pladd]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pladd, glenn, [Microsoft]
15:00:15 [Zakim]
15:00:38 [davide]
davide has joined #html-media
15:00:49 [Zakim]
15:00:55 [Zakim]
15:01:02 [pal]
zakim, I am IPcaller
15:01:02 [Zakim]
ok, pal, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:01:16 [Zakim]
+ +1.303.661.aaaa
15:01:26 [Zakim]
15:02:57 [adrianba]
adrianba has joined #html-media
15:03:08 [ddorwin]
ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:03:16 [Zakim]
+ +1.858.357.aabb
15:03:43 [Zakim]
15:05:10 [ddorwin]
I can't talk much today.
15:05:58 [glenn]
adrian, are you on the call?
15:06:19 [Zakim]
15:06:26 [adrianba]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
15:06:27 [Zakim]
+adrianba; got it
15:06:46 [johnsim]
zakim, who is on the call?
15:06:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pladd, glenn, [Microsoft], [IPcaller], +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb, ddorwin, adrianba
15:06:54 [johnsim]
zakim, [microsoft] is me
15:06:54 [Zakim]
+johnsim; got it
15:06:55 [adrianba]
15:06:58 [Zakim]
15:06:58 [jdsmith]
jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:07:03 [glenn]
chair: glenn
15:07:11 [glenn]
scribenick: adrianba
15:07:21 [glenn]
15:07:27 [adrianba]
Chair: Glenn Adams
15:07:32 [adrianba]
Scribe: Adrian Bateman
15:08:20 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
15:08:28 [glenn]
zakim, who's on the call?
15:08:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pladd, glenn, johnsim, [IPcaller], +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb, ddorwin, adrianba, [Microsoft]
15:08:51 [glenn]
zakim, aaaa is Kevin_Kershaw
15:08:51 [Zakim]
+Kevin_Kershaw; got it
15:09:18 [pal]
zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:09:18 [Zakim]
ok, pal, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:09:29 [glenn]
zakim, aabb is Niels
15:09:29 [Zakim]
+Niels; got it
15:09:40 [pal]
zakim, who's on the call?
15:09:40 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pladd, glenn, johnsim, [IPcaller], Kevin_Kershaw, davide, Niels, ddorwin, adrianba, [Microsoft]
15:10:19 [niels_thorwirth]
niels_thorwirth has joined #html-media
15:10:33 [glenn]
zakim, [IPcaller] is pal
15:10:33 [Zakim]
+pal; got it
15:10:43 [glenn]
zakim, Niels is niels_thorwirth
15:10:44 [Zakim]
+niels_thorwirth; got it
15:11:00 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Previous meeting minutes
15:11:06 [adrianba]
glenn: any comments?
15:11:13 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Review of action items and issues
15:11:21 [adrianba]
glenn: actions are in the agenda
15:11:27 [glenn]
15:11:27 [trackbot]
ISSUE-1 -- Consider moving the Clear Key definition into a separate specification -- raised
15:11:27 [trackbot]
15:11:27 [adrianba]
15:11:27 [trackbot]
ISSUE-1 -- Consider moving the Clear Key definition into a separate specification -- raised
15:11:28 [trackbot]
15:11:54 [ddorwin]
We usually just note this and move on.
15:11:57 [adrianba]
glenn: any comments?
15:12:08 [adrianba]
TOPIC: EME status and bugs
15:12:28 [adrianba]
glenn: EME draft last updated jul 16
15:12:31 [adrianba]
... 15 bugs open
15:12:34 [glenn]
15:13:05 [glenn]
15:13:13 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Bug 20944 - EME should do more to encourage/ensure CDM-level interop
15:13:25 [adrianba]
glenn: there were a couple of comments since the last meeting
15:13:31 [adrianba]
... i proposed a way to resolve this bug
15:13:50 [adrianba]
... Robert O'Callahan responded that it wasn't as strong as he desired
15:14:01 [adrianba]
... i responded that he'd have to convince the group of his proposal
15:14:13 [adrianba]
... he's requesting a fairly strong set of information about CDM
15:14:32 [adrianba]
... i'm recommending a voluntary registry in the wiki
15:15:13 [adrianba]
adrianba: i'd be okay with the wiki proposal
15:15:28 [adrianba]
glenn: does anyone support robert's proposal?
15:15:40 [adrianba]
... does anyone think we should keep it open for longer?
15:15:58 [glenn]
15:16:02 [adrianba]
... can we get an action on the editors to implement the resolution in comment 15
15:17:16 [adrianba]
johnsim: i'm a little unclear about what we're adding to the spec
15:17:21 [adrianba]
... just a link to a wiki?
15:18:02 [adrianba]
glenn: not suggesting making it a recommendation - in order to avoid collisions of key system names you can register here
15:18:23 [adrianba]
johnsim: so it would just be a registry of the names?
15:18:31 [adrianba]
glenn: there could be a comments field
15:18:37 [adrianba]
15:19:34 [adrianba]
ack adr
15:19:53 [adrianba]
adrianba: recommend glenn creates the wiki page, maybe with an example entry, and adds proposed spec text to the bug
15:20:09 [glenn]
Action: glenn to draft wiki page to register CDM key system names
15:20:09 [trackbot]
Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
15:20:59 [glenn]
Action glenn to draft spec language for inclusions as note to address comment #15 of bug 20944
15:20:59 [trackbot]
Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
15:21:20 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Bug 20965 - EME results in a loss of control over security and privacy.
15:21:25 [adrianba]
15:22:13 [adrianba]
glenn: i proposed a section called privacy concerns
15:22:21 [adrianba]
... giving an example from webcrypto
15:22:27 [glenn]
15:22:44 [adrianba]
glenn: any input on this?
15:23:36 [glenn]
adrianba: 2 parts to this issue
15:23:49 [glenn]
... specific information: what are privacy implications?
15:24:15 [glenn]
... does the design support take privacy into account?
15:24:23 [glenn]
zakim, who's noisy?
15:24:33 [Zakim]
glenn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: johnsim (90%), adrianba (25%)
15:24:44 [glenn]
zakim, mute johnsim
15:24:44 [Zakim]
johnsim should now be muted
15:25:35 [glenn]
adrianba: so is api asynch at right time to be able to ask user for permissions, etc?
15:25:42 [johnsim]
my microphone was muted at the time (???)
15:26:47 [glenn]
adrianba: we've discussed this in relation to other topics
15:27:11 [glenn]
... between time session is created and session is ready, then user could be prompted if user decides not to allow use of EME
15:27:22 [glenn]
... but haven't exhaustively considered this topic
15:27:47 [glenn]
... henri's comment #9 also talks about storage of data
15:28:32 [glenn]
glenn: to adrianba, do you have any recommendations on how to proceed with this bug?
15:28:52 [glenn]
adrianba: prompt more discussion on ML ?
15:29:27 [adrianba]
glenn: it seems to me that a better way would be to attempt to draft some minimal language that could be used to fill in a section on privacy considerations
15:29:36 [adrianba]
... do we have a section in the document on this right now?
15:29:57 [adrianba]
glenn: any volunteers to draft this?
15:30:32 [adrianba]
glenn: i will go ahead an volunteer to draft language on potential privacy considerations
15:30:33 [glenn]
Action glenn to draft language on potential privacy considerations
15:30:33 [trackbot]
Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register nicknames at <>.
15:31:16 [adrianba]
glenn: not an expert on this topic, will probably copy something from somewhere else and then put it on the list to solicit comments
15:31:21 [Zakim]
15:31:34 [kkershaw]
kkershaw has joined #html-media
15:31:40 [adrianba]
... and also note other editorial comments, for example needing to look at API async
15:31:54 [Zakim]
15:31:57 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Bug 20966 - EME design trivializes the demanded loss of control of security and privacy demanded.
15:32:02 [adrianba]
15:32:32 [glenn]
zakim, [Microsoft.a] is johnsim
15:32:32 [Zakim]
+johnsim; got it
15:32:36 [johnsim]
zakim, who is on the call
15:32:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the call', johnsim
15:33:04 [adrianba]
glenn: in february, adrian asked for more information from the submitter
15:33:17 [adrianba]
... comment 1 had asked for spec text to change
15:33:59 [adrianba]
... i propose that we close this issue without prejudice because there is no information provided
15:34:09 [adrianba]
... but it could be opened with new information
15:34:14 [adrianba]
... any objection to this?
15:34:48 [ddorwin]
Also note that privacy is being discussed/addressed in bug 20965.
15:35:02 [glenn]
RESOLVED: close bug 20966 without prejudice due to lack of essential information; allow reopening only if substantive new info is provided;
15:35:30 [adrianba]
glenn: any objections to this resolution?
15:35:47 [glenn]
Action adrianba to implement closing 20966
15:35:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-30 - Implement closing 20966 [on Adrian Bateman - due 2013-08-13].
15:36:14 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Bug 21854 - Define MediaKeySession life cycle states and/or events
15:36:20 [adrianba]
15:36:30 [adrianba]
glenn: resolution that adrian would implement solution as discussed
15:36:35 [adrianba]
... any progress?
15:37:26 [adrianba]
adrianba: no progress yet - still a little discussion in the bug
15:37:39 [adrianba]
... assume the resolution was without the state attribute
15:37:52 [adrianba]
... i wasn't present at the end of the meeting last time
15:37:53 [ddorwin]
I don't feel strongly about the state attribute (certainly not as strongly as I do about addressing the bug overall).
15:38:05 [adrianba]
... not clear if the state attribute should be a separate bug or discussed here
15:38:35 [ddorwin]
If people have use cases for the state, that's fine. We could always add them later, though.
15:38:44 [adrianba]
glenn: david, is there a way to resolve your comment?
15:39:00 [adrianba]
... anyone proposing adding new information?
15:39:25 [adrianba]
... then we should go ahead and act on the action and raise any issues
15:39:35 [ddorwin]
s/the state/the state attribute/
15:39:44 [ddorwin]
s/add them/add it/
15:39:51 [glenn]
15:40:40 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Bug 21855 - Avoid network traffic and duplicate sessions for the same key(s)
15:40:44 [adrianba]
15:42:04 [adrianba]
glenn: sounds like this needs further thought
15:42:17 [adrianba]
... if anyone has thoughts post to the mailing list
15:42:30 [adrianba]
15:42:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-25 -- David Dorwin to and John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 -- due 2013-07-19 -- OPEN
15:42:30 [trackbot]
15:43:08 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Bug 17673 - Define Initialization Data for implementations that choose to support the ISO Base Media File Format
15:43:13 [adrianba]
15:43:20 [adrianba]
johnsim: i have not completed this
15:43:33 [adrianba]
ACTION-25 due in 1 week
15:43:33 [trackbot]
Set ACTION-25 And John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 due date to 2013-08-13.
15:43:57 [adrianba]
15:43:57 [trackbot]
ACTION-27 -- Adrian Bateman to add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close -- due 2013-07-09 -- CLOSED
15:43:57 [trackbot]
15:44:20 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Bug 17750 - Define the behavior MediaKeySession close() and clearing the keys attribute
15:44:25 [adrianba]
15:44:49 [adrianba]
glenn: waiting for mark's input - mark's not on the call at the moment
15:45:01 [adrianba]
... joe proposes to keep close but indicate that it is a hint
15:45:14 [adrianba]
... joe's not on the call
15:45:22 [adrianba]
... sounds like we need to defer until the next meeting
15:45:56 [glenn]
ACTION-27 due in 1 week
15:45:56 [trackbot]
Set ACTION-27 Add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close due date to 2013-08-13.
15:46:25 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Bug 18515 - Provide more details on behavior of the media element when the key for an encrypted block is not available
15:46:38 [adrianba]
15:46:50 [adrianba]
glenn: david, do you have input on this?
15:46:53 [glenn]
15:47:06 [adrianba]
ddorwin: i was just clarifying what i think joe had said
15:47:27 [adrianba]
glenn: do we have enough information to make progress?
15:47:41 [adrianba]
ddorwin: probably need to propose text and then discuss that
15:47:48 [adrianba]
glenn: would you like an action to do that?
15:48:03 [adrianba]
ddorwin: i probably won't do it in the next couple of weeks
15:48:19 [glenn]
action ddorwin to propose text to resolve bug 18515
15:48:19 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-31 - Propose text to resolve bug 18515 [on David Dorwin - due 2013-08-13].
15:48:45 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Bug 21869 - Need clarity on stored keys for CDMs
15:48:51 [adrianba]
15:49:09 [adrianba]
glenn: fairly lengthy thread with joe and david
15:49:13 [adrianba]
... status?
15:49:32 [adrianba]
ddorwin: i replied to the thread - haven't had chance to look at the reply from this morning
15:49:42 [adrianba]
glenn: need to leave this open
15:49:52 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Other bugs for discussion
15:49:56 [adrianba]
glenn: any others?
15:50:23 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Any other business
15:50:28 [adrianba]
glenn: hearing none
15:50:38 [adrianba]
... Next EME meeting will be on Tue Aug 13.
15:50:45 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Adjournment
15:50:52 [Zakim]
15:50:54 [Zakim]
15:50:56 [adrianba]
glenn: thanks everyone
15:51:01 [Zakim]
15:51:02 [Zakim]
15:51:02 [Zakim]
15:51:04 [Zakim]
15:51:05 [Zakim]
15:51:06 [Zakim]
15:51:07 [Zakim]
15:51:11 [adrianba]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate adrianba
15:51:15 [adrianba]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:51:26 [glenn]
trackbot, end meeting
15:51:26 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:51:26 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been pladd, glenn, +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb, ddorwin, adrianba, johnsim, [Microsoft], Kevin_Kershaw, pal, niels_thorwirth
15:51:34 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:51:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
15:51:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:51:35 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in :
15:51:35 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: glenn to draft wiki page to register CDM key system names [1]
15:51:35 [RRSAgent]
recorded in