14:57:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:57:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-irc
14:57:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-media
14:57:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
14:57:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:46 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:57:46 <trackbot> Date: 06 August 2013
14:59:16 <Zakim> HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:24 <Zakim> +pladd
14:59:26 <Zakim> +??P6
14:59:36 <glenn> zakim, ??p6 is me
14:59:36 <Zakim> +glenn; got it
14:59:55 <pal> pal has joined #html-media
15:00:03 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:00:12 <pladd> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see pladd, glenn, [Microsoft]
15:00:15 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:00:38 <davide> davide has joined #html-media
15:00:49 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:00:55 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:01:02 <pal> zakim, I am IPcaller
15:01:02 <Zakim> ok, pal, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:01:16 <Zakim> + +1.303.661.aaaa
15:01:26 <Zakim> +davide
15:02:57 <adrianba> adrianba has joined #html-media
15:03:08 <ddorwin> ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:03:16 <Zakim> + +1.858.357.aabb
15:03:43 <Zakim> +ddorwin
15:05:10 <ddorwin> I can't talk much today.
15:05:58 <glenn> adrian, are you on the call?
15:06:19 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
15:06:26 <adrianba> zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
15:06:27 <Zakim> +adrianba; got it
15:06:46 <johnsim> zakim, who is on the call?
15:06:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see pladd, glenn, [Microsoft], [IPcaller], +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb, ddorwin, adrianba
15:06:54 <johnsim> zakim, [microsoft] is me
15:06:54 <Zakim> +johnsim; got it
15:06:55 <adrianba> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Aug/0005.html
15:06:58 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:06:58 <jdsmith> jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:07:03 <glenn> chair: glenn
15:07:11 <glenn> scribenick: adrianba
15:07:21 <glenn> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Aug/0005.html
15:07:27 <adrianba> Chair: Glenn Adams
15:07:32 <adrianba> Scribe: Adrian Bateman
15:08:20 <adrianba> TOPIC: Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
15:08:28 <glenn> zakim, who's on the call?
15:08:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see pladd, glenn, johnsim, [IPcaller], +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb, ddorwin, adrianba, [Microsoft]
15:08:51 <glenn> zakim, aaaa is Kevin_Kershaw
15:08:51 <Zakim> +Kevin_Kershaw; got it
15:09:18 <pal> zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:09:18 <Zakim> ok, pal, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:09:29 <glenn> zakim, aabb is Niels
15:09:29 <Zakim> +Niels; got it
15:09:40 <pal> zakim, who's on the call?
15:09:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see pladd, glenn, johnsim, [IPcaller], Kevin_Kershaw, davide, Niels, ddorwin, adrianba, [Microsoft]
15:10:19 <niels_thorwirth> niels_thorwirth has joined #html-media
15:10:33 <glenn> zakim, [IPcaller] is pal
15:10:33 <Zakim> +pal; got it
15:10:43 <glenn> zakim, Niels is niels_thorwirth
15:10:44 <Zakim> +niels_thorwirth; got it
15:11:00 <adrianba> TOPIC: Previous meeting minutes
15:11:06 <adrianba> glenn: any comments?
15:11:13 <adrianba> TOPIC: Review of action items and issues
15:11:21 <adrianba> glenn: actions are in the agenda
15:11:27 <glenn> ISSUE-1?
15:11:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-1 -- Consider moving the Clear Key definition into a separate specification -- raised
15:11:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1
15:11:27 <adrianba> ISSUE-1?
15:11:27 <trackbot> ISSUE-1 -- Consider moving the Clear Key definition into a separate specification -- raised
15:11:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1
15:11:54 <ddorwin> We usually just note this and move on.
15:11:57 <adrianba> glenn: any comments?
15:12:08 <adrianba> TOPIC: EME status and bugs
15:12:28 <adrianba> glenn: EME draft last updated jul 16
15:12:31 <adrianba> ... 15 bugs open
15:12:34 <glenn> http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo
15:13:05 <glenn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944
15:13:13 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 20944 - EME should do more to encourage/ensure CDM-level interop
15:13:25 <adrianba> glenn: there were a couple of comments since the last meeting
15:13:31 <adrianba> ... i proposed a way to resolve this bug
15:13:50 <adrianba> ... Robert O'Callahan responded that it wasn't as strong as he desired
15:14:01 <adrianba> ... i responded that he'd have to convince the group of his proposal
15:14:13 <adrianba> ... he's requesting a fairly strong set of information about CDM
15:14:32 <adrianba> ... i'm recommending a voluntary registry in the wiki
15:15:13 <adrianba> adrianba: i'd be okay with the wiki proposal
15:15:28 <adrianba> glenn: does anyone support robert's proposal?
15:15:40 <adrianba> ... does anyone think we should keep it open for longer?
15:15:58 <glenn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20944#c15
15:16:02 <adrianba> ... can we get an action on the editors to implement the resolution in comment 15
15:17:16 <adrianba> johnsim: i'm a little unclear about what we're adding to the spec
15:17:21 <adrianba> ... just a link to a wiki?
15:18:02 <adrianba> glenn: not suggesting making it a recommendation - in order to avoid collisions of key system names you can register here
15:18:23 <adrianba> johnsim: so it would just be a registry of the names?
15:18:31 <adrianba> glenn: there could be a comments field
15:18:37 <adrianba> q+
15:19:34 <adrianba> ack adr
15:19:53 <adrianba> adrianba: recommend glenn creates the wiki page, maybe with an example entry, and adds proposed spec text to the bug
15:20:09 <glenn> Action: glenn to draft wiki page to register CDM key system names
15:20:09 <trackbot> Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.
15:20:59 <glenn> Action glenn to draft spec language for inclusions as note to address comment #15 of bug 20944
15:20:59 <trackbot> Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.
15:21:20 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 20965 - EME results in a loss of control over security and privacy.
15:21:25 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965
15:22:13 <adrianba> glenn: i proposed a section called privacy concerns
15:22:21 <adrianba> ... giving an example from webcrypto
15:22:27 <glenn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20965#c32
15:22:44 <adrianba> glenn: any input on this?
15:23:36 <glenn> adrianba: 2 parts to this issue
15:23:49 <glenn> ... specific information: what are privacy implications?
15:24:15 <glenn> ... does the design support take privacy into account?
15:24:23 <glenn> zakim, who's noisy?
15:24:33 <Zakim> glenn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: johnsim (90%), adrianba (25%)
15:24:44 <glenn> zakim, mute johnsim
15:24:44 <Zakim> johnsim should now be muted
15:25:35 <glenn> adrianba: so is api asynch at right time to be able to ask user for permissions, etc?
15:25:42 <johnsim> my microphone was muted at the time (???)
15:26:47 <glenn> adrianba: we've discussed this in relation to other topics
15:27:11 <glenn> ... between time session is created and session is ready, then user could be prompted if user decides not to allow use of EME
15:27:22 <glenn> ... but haven't exhaustively considered this topic
15:27:47 <glenn> ... henri's comment #9 also talks about storage of data
15:28:32 <glenn> glenn: to adrianba, do you have any recommendations on how to proceed with this bug?
15:28:52 <glenn> adrianba: prompt more discussion on ML ?
15:29:27 <adrianba> glenn: it seems to me that a better way would be to attempt to draft some minimal language that could be used to fill in a section on privacy considerations
15:29:36 <adrianba> ... do we have a section in the document on this right now?
15:29:57 <adrianba> glenn: any volunteers to draft this?
15:30:32 <adrianba> glenn: i will go ahead an volunteer to draft language on potential privacy considerations
15:30:33 <glenn> Action glenn to draft language on potential privacy considerations
15:30:33 <trackbot> Error finding 'glenn'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.
15:31:16 <adrianba> glenn: not an expert on this topic, will probably copy something from somewhere else and then put it on the list to solicit comments
15:31:21 <Zakim> -johnsim
15:31:34 <kkershaw> kkershaw has joined #html-media
15:31:40 <adrianba> ... and also note other editorial comments, for example needing to look at API async
15:31:54 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
15:31:57 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 20966 - EME design trivializes the demanded loss of control of security and privacy demanded.
15:32:02 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20966
15:32:32 <glenn> zakim, [Microsoft.a] is johnsim
15:32:32 <Zakim> +johnsim; got it
15:32:36 <johnsim> zakim, who is on the call
15:32:36 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the call', johnsim
15:33:04 <adrianba> glenn: in february, adrian asked for more information from the submitter
15:33:17 <adrianba> ... comment 1 had asked for spec text to change
15:33:59 <adrianba> ... i propose that we close this issue without prejudice because there is no information provided
15:34:09 <adrianba> ... but it could be opened with new information
15:34:14 <adrianba> ... any objection to this?
15:34:48 <ddorwin> Also note that privacy is being discussed/addressed in bug 20965.
15:35:02 <glenn> RESOLVED: close bug 20966 without prejudice due to lack of essential information; allow reopening only if substantive new info is provided;
15:35:30 <adrianba> glenn: any objections to this resolution?
15:35:47 <glenn> Action adrianba to implement closing 20966
15:35:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-30 - Implement closing 20966 [on Adrian Bateman - due 2013-08-13].
15:36:14 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 21854 - Define MediaKeySession life cycle states and/or events
15:36:20 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21854
15:36:30 <adrianba> glenn: resolution that adrian would implement solution as discussed
15:36:35 <adrianba> ... any progress?
15:37:26 <adrianba> adrianba: no progress yet - still a little discussion in the bug
15:37:39 <adrianba> ... assume the resolution was without the state attribute
15:37:52 <adrianba> ... i wasn't present at the end of the meeting last time
15:37:53 <ddorwin> I don't feel strongly about the state attribute (certainly not as strongly as I do about addressing the bug overall).
15:38:05 <adrianba> ... not clear if the state attribute should be a separate bug or discussed here
15:38:35 <ddorwin> If people have use cases for the state, that's fine. We could always add them later, though.
15:38:44 <adrianba> glenn: david, is there a way to resolve your comment?
15:39:00 <adrianba> ... anyone proposing adding new information?
15:39:25 <adrianba> ... then we should go ahead and act on the action and raise any issues
15:39:35 <ddorwin> s/the state/the state attribute/
15:39:44 <ddorwin> s/add them/add it/
15:39:51 <glenn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855#c5
15:40:40 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 21855 - Avoid network traffic and duplicate sessions for the same key(s)
15:40:44 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855
15:42:04 <adrianba> glenn: sounds like this needs further thought
15:42:17 <adrianba> ... if anyone has thoughts post to the mailing list
15:42:30 <adrianba> ACTION-25?
15:42:30 <trackbot> ACTION-25 -- David Dorwin to and John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 -- due 2013-07-19 -- OPEN
15:42:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/25
15:43:08 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 17673 - Define Initialization Data for implementations that choose to support the ISO Base Media File Format
15:43:13 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673
15:43:20 <adrianba> johnsim: i have not completed this
15:43:33 <adrianba> ACTION-25 due in 1 week
15:43:33 <trackbot> Set ACTION-25 And John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 due date to 2013-08-13.
15:43:57 <adrianba> ACTION-27?
15:43:57 <trackbot> ACTION-27 -- Adrian Bateman to add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close -- due 2013-07-09 -- CLOSED
15:43:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/27
15:44:20 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 17750 - Define the behavior MediaKeySession close() and clearing the keys attribute
15:44:25 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750
15:44:49 <adrianba> glenn: waiting for mark's input - mark's not on the call at the moment
15:45:01 <adrianba> ... joe proposes to keep close but indicate that it is a hint
15:45:14 <adrianba> ... joe's not on the call
15:45:22 <adrianba> ... sounds like we need to defer until the next meeting
15:45:56 <glenn> ACTION-27 due in 1 week
15:45:56 <trackbot> Set ACTION-27 Add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close due date to 2013-08-13.
15:46:25 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 18515 - Provide more details on behavior of the media element when the key for an encrypted block is not available
15:46:38 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515
15:46:50 <adrianba> glenn: david, do you have input on this?
15:46:53 <glenn> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515#c11
15:47:06 <adrianba> ddorwin: i was just clarifying what i think joe had said
15:47:27 <adrianba> glenn: do we have enough information to make progress?
15:47:41 <adrianba> ddorwin: probably need to propose text and then discuss that
15:47:48 <adrianba> glenn: would you like an action to do that?
15:48:03 <adrianba> ddorwin: i probably won't do it in the next couple of weeks
15:48:19 <glenn> action ddorwin to propose text to resolve bug 18515
15:48:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-31 - Propose text to resolve bug 18515 [on David Dorwin - due 2013-08-13].
15:48:45 <adrianba> TOPIC: Bug 21869 - Need clarity on stored keys for CDMs
15:48:51 <adrianba> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21869
15:49:09 <adrianba> glenn: fairly lengthy thread with joe and david
15:49:13 <adrianba> ... status?
15:49:32 <adrianba> ddorwin: i replied to the thread - haven't had chance to look at the reply from this morning
15:49:42 <adrianba> glenn: need to leave this open
15:49:52 <adrianba> TOPIC: Other bugs for discussion
15:49:56 <adrianba> glenn: any others?
15:50:23 <adrianba> TOPIC: Any other business
15:50:28 <adrianba> glenn: hearing none
15:50:38 <adrianba> ... Next EME meeting will be on Tue Aug 13.
15:50:45 <adrianba> TOPIC: Adjournment
15:50:52 <Zakim> -Kevin_Kershaw
15:50:54 <Zakim> -pladd
15:50:56 <adrianba> glenn: thanks everyone
15:51:01 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:51:02 <Zakim> -adrianba
15:51:02 <Zakim> -niels_thorwirth
15:51:04 <Zakim> -davide
15:51:05 <Zakim> -pal
15:51:06 <Zakim> -johnsim
15:51:07 <Zakim> -ddorwin
15:51:11 <adrianba> rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
15:51:15 <adrianba> rrsagent, make logs public
15:51:26 <glenn> trackbot, end meeting
15:51:26 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:51:26 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been pladd, glenn, +1.303.661.aaaa, davide, +1.858.357.aabb, ddorwin, adrianba, johnsim, [Microsoft], Kevin_Kershaw, pal, niels_thorwirth
15:51:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:51:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-minutes.html trackbot
15:51:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:51:35 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-actions.rdf :
15:51:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: glenn to draft wiki page to register CDM key system names [1]
15:51:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/08/06-html-media-irc#T15-20-09