IRC log of css on 2013-07-31
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:02:26 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #css
- 15:02:26 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/31-css-irc
- 15:02:31 [glazou]
- Zakim, this will be Style
- 15:02:32 [Zakim]
- ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 58 minutes
- 15:02:35 [glazou]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 15:02:43 [glazou]
- glazou has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Jul/0685.html
- 15:40:18 [zcorpan]
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- 15:54:10 [rhauck]
- rhauck has joined #css
- 15:55:06 [sgalineau]
- sgalineau has joined #css
- 15:56:05 [Zakim]
- Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- 15:56:06 [florian]
- florian has joined #css
- 15:56:11 [Zakim]
- +plinss
- 15:56:35 [shezbaig_wk]
- shezbaig_wk has joined #css
- 15:56:47 [Zakim]
- +??P7
- 15:56:56 [florian]
- Zakim, I am P7
- 15:56:56 [Zakim]
- sorry, florian, I do not see a party named 'P7'
- 15:56:58 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 15:57:03 [glazou]
- Zakim ??P8 is me
- 15:57:04 [florian]
- Zakim, I am ??P7
- 15:57:05 [Zakim]
- +florian; got it
- 15:57:11 [glazou]
- Zakim, ??P8 is me
- 15:57:11 [Zakim]
- +glazou; got it
- 15:57:36 [glenn]
- glenn has joined #css
- 15:58:06 [Zakim]
- +c_palmer
- 15:58:25 [shezbaig_wk]
- Zakim, c_palmer is me
- 15:58:25 [Zakim]
- +shezbaig_wk; got it
- 15:58:59 [Zakim]
- + +1.415.832.aaaa
- 15:59:05 [rhauck]
- Zakim, aaaa is me
- 15:59:05 [Zakim]
- +rhauck; got it
- 15:59:12 [lmclister]
- lmclister has joined #css
- 15:59:27 [Zakim]
- +krit
- 15:59:35 [stearns]
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- 16:00:29 [dbaron]
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- 16:00:40 [dael]
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- 16:01:02 [Zakim]
- +Stearns
- 16:01:13 [Zakim]
- +dael
- 16:01:29 [leif]
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- 16:01:40 [MaRakow]
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- 16:01:50 [Zakim]
- +Lea
- 16:01:50 [Zakim]
- +SteveZ
- 16:01:52 [JohnJansen]
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- 16:01:58 [Zakim]
- +SylvaIng
- 16:02:10 [sgalineau]
- Zakim, there is no turkish I in my name
- 16:02:10 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'there is no turkish I in my name', sgalineau
- 16:02:13 [smfr]
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- 16:02:37 [SteveZ]
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- 16:02:38 [oyvind]
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- 16:02:41 [Zakim]
- -Stearns
- 16:02:47 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 16:02:58 [SimonSapin]
- Zakim, ??P19 is me
- 16:02:58 [Zakim]
- +SimonSapin; got it
- 16:03:00 [Zakim]
- +briankardell
- 16:03:11 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 16:03:20 [leif]
- Zakim, I am ??P14
- 16:03:20 [Zakim]
- +leif; got it
- 16:03:23 [Zakim]
- +smfr
- 16:03:29 [Zakim]
- +Stearns
- 16:03:32 [Zakim]
- -Lea
- 16:03:50 [Zakim]
- + +1.417.671.aabb
- 16:03:56 [Zakim]
- -Stearns
- 16:04:05 [glenn]
- zakim, aabb is me
- 16:04:05 [Zakim]
- +glenn; got it
- 16:04:16 [stearns]
- hmm - may not be able to stay on the call
- 16:04:16 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:04:23 [Zakim]
- +fantasai
- 16:04:37 [JohnJansen]
- Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
- 16:04:37 [Zakim]
- +JohnJansen; got it
- 16:05:33 [Zakim]
- +Plh
- 16:05:46 [SimonSapin]
- SribeNick: SimonSapin
- 16:05:51 [SimonSapin]
- ScribeNick: SimonSapin
- 16:06:14 [SimonSapin]
- Topic: Text 3 issues
- 16:06:37 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: on the ML, edits to justification section
- 16:06:44 [glazou]
- see also https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2013JulSep/0092.html
- 16:06:49 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: waiting for SteveZ and jdagget to review and approve
- 16:06:51 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 16:07:03 [tantek]
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- 16:07:08 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: if no comment, next issue
- 16:07:23 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: jdagget wants to continue discussion on the ML
- 16:07:37 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 16:07:51 [koji]
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- 16:08:05 [SimonSapin]
- [discussing what is the 2nd issue]
- 16:08:33 [Zakim]
- +??P3
- 16:08:42 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: proposal: letter-spacing allows justification with space between characters when set to a length
- 16:08:54 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: consistent with impls., some content depends on this
- 16:08:56 [koji]
- zakim, ??P3 is me
- 16:08:56 [Zakim]
- +koji; got it
- 16:09:00 [Zakim]
- +dbaron
- 16:09:06 [fantasai]
- + consistent with word-spacing
- 16:09:14 [Zakim]
- +Bert
- 16:09:19 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: agree to allow some level of justification if letter-spacing is used
- 16:09:32 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: not happy as fixed as a way to turn it of
- 16:09:50 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: letter spacing variation are very small (few %)
- 16:10:22 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: fixed doesn’t correspond to what people find useful: min, mix variation
- 16:10:27 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: one issue at a time
- 16:10:48 [Zakim]
- -koji
- 16:10:51 [Zakim]
- +??P30
- 16:10:58 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: 1 whether letter-spacing: length suppresses justification
- 16:11:15 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: 2. do we have a way to turn this kind of justification off
- 16:11:17 [Bert]
- q+ to suggest the question is the wrong way round: we need a way to turn flexible letter spacing *on* (not off)
- 16:11:31 [Zakim]
- +Lea
- 16:11:31 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: is 2. a way to control it?
- 16:11:39 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: control is more important
- 16:11:52 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: already resolved to not allow min/max spacing at this level of the spec
- 16:12:02 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: if you can’t control it, you shouldn’t allow it
- 16:12:21 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: then content breaks, impls need to change, and this is inconsistent with word-spacing
- 16:12:31 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: lets put min/max back on the table
- 16:12:47 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: not going to CR if you say we need this, and jdagget says we can’t have this
- 16:13:00 [plinss]
- ack bert
- 16:13:00 [Zakim]
- Bert, you wanted to suggest the question is the wrong way round: we need a way to turn flexible letter spacing *on* (not off)
- 16:13:08 [Zakim]
- +Stearns
- 16:13:19 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: the way to turn automatic letter-spacing on could be to use the 'distribute' keyword
- 16:13:36 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 16:13:49 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: maybe not necessary to have control on the limits, but just say there is a limit or no limit on expansion
- 16:14:10 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: maybe not further than twice the normal size is good enough
- 16:14:31 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: new keyword on text-justify, suggested on the ML. 'unlimited'
- 16:14:39 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: this is what fixed does
- 16:14:50 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: the spec does not specify a limit, but gotta be reasonable
- 16:14:56 [koji]
- zakim, [ipcaller] is me
- 16:14:56 [Zakim]
- +koji; got it
- 16:15:19 [cabanier]
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- 16:15:24 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: kinds of limits I was coming across are +/- 5%, much smaller than half
- 16:15:48 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: letter-spacing also applies between CJK characters, in this can you do not want to limit
- 16:16:03 [Zakim]
- -Lea
- 16:16:15 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: CJK task force has a huge table of cases, it’s not uniform at all. Unclear that this works for CJK
- 16:16:27 [stearns]
- thought that 'distribute' is what Bert is suggesting as 'unlimited'
- 16:16:30 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: algo currently undefined, UAs encouraged to do the right thing
- 16:16:56 [Zakim]
- +Lea
- 16:16:57 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: don,t want to have strong limits on what UAs can do: 2.1 says "can not add space between characters for justification"
- 16:17:29 [SimonSapin]
- stearns: 'fixed' keyword is not about not allowing variable expansion, it forbids expansion at all
- 16:17:49 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: goal is to allow CJK to justify correct, so need to lift this limit
- 16:17:51 [Bert]
- (To stearns: yes, and I suggest redfining 'distribute' as including an implicit limit, and 'unlimited' is what 'distribute' does now.)
- 16:17:56 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: also not break content and impls
- 16:18:18 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: in order to get the previous spec behavior: add the 'fixed' keyword, if that’s what you want
- 16:18:22 [stearns]
- Bert: I'd rather leave 'distribute' as is
- 16:18:37 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: impls will have to add it, but does not break content as its opt-in
- 16:18:44 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: can add further controls in the future
- 16:18:54 [SimonSapin]
- plinss: anybody implemented previous spec behavior?
- 16:19:00 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: not that I know of
- 16:19:12 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: I,ve been relying on it. letter-spacing: 0
- 16:19:24 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: people who don’t read specs don’t do that
- 16:19:46 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: content is there for what the spec says, not for future impls
- 16:20:17 [dbaron]
- fantasai^: Implementations don't do justification with spacing between latin letters
- 16:20:29 [SimonSapin]
- florian: if nobody has implemented it, ???
- 16:20:42 [smfr]
- SimonSapin: we can't hear you
- 16:20:47 [SimonSapin]
- florian: I think fantasai’s way forward is more managable
- 16:20:58 [SimonSapin]
- plinss: continue discussion on email?
- 16:21:10 [stearns]
- +1 to fantasai's current wording
- 16:21:23 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: I think there is some agreement to allow letter-spacing to participate in ???
- 16:21:40 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: we’re struggling with how to do that with existing impls/spec/content
- 16:22:02 [florian]
- If nobody has implemented it, I suspect not many people have written stylesheet that conform to the spec in a way that breaks on current implementation, so while it is unfortunate to contradict ourselves, it still sounds like a less painful way
- 16:22:13 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: even if we add min/max, you have to turn those one which doesn’t work with existing content
- 16:22:23 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: unless we have defaults like +/- 5%
- 16:22:29 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: that’s too small
- 16:22:40 [SimonSapin]
- stearns: leave impls. to choose limints
- 16:22:49 [SimonSapin]
- stearns: can have controls for the limits later
- 16:23:05 [SimonSapin]
- stearns: in favor of fantasai ’s proposal now
- 16:23:12 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: I may be ok with that
- 16:23:17 [Zakim]
- +TabAtkins
- 16:23:27 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: what happens if you say fixed and specify a range
- 16:23:30 [glazou]
- TabAtkins, you're super noisy
- 16:23:31 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: you cant
- 16:23:39 [glenn]
- zakim, who's noisy?
- 16:23:42 [glazou]
- Zakim, mute TabAtkins
- 16:23:42 [Zakim]
- TabAtkins should now be muted
- 16:23:49 [Zakim]
- glenn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (9%), SimonSapin (20%), Bert (9%), TabAtkins (21%)
- 16:23:56 [TabAtkins]
- haha, it's not me!
- 16:24:04 [TabAtkins]
- well, i'm still noisy.
- 16:24:05 [glazou]
- sorry had to mute you, too noisy ; yeah it was you
- 16:24:12 [TabAtkins]
- But the echo wasn't me.
- 16:24:13 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: if we add min/max controls in the future, 'fixed' is a shorthand to specify 3 identical values
- 16:24:22 [glazou]
- Zakim, unmute TabAtkins
- 16:24:22 [Zakim]
- TabAtkins should no longer be muted
- 16:24:25 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: never able to combine it with a range
- 16:24:43 [glenn]
- zakim, who's noisy?
- 16:24:44 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: to do this correctly you need a table for CJK
- 16:24:46 [glazou]
- Zakim, who is noisy?
- 16:24:55 [Zakim]
- glenn, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: fantasai (20%), plinss (4%), florian (32%)
- 16:25:03 [glazou]
- Zakim, mute florian
- 16:25:03 [Zakim]
- florian should now be muted
- 16:25:05 [Zakim]
- glazou, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: fantasai (14%), florian (45%)
- 16:25:37 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: table = range of values depending on context
- 16:25:57 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: also priorities between adjustments
- 16:26:20 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: more than %age, more complex in the Japanase Layout Task Force report
- 16:26:31 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: let’s not do that at this level
- 16:26:48 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: concern with 'fixed' is that it restricts this solution
- 16:27:03 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: ??? originally designed for latin
- 16:27:07 [Zakim]
- +[Mozilla]
- 16:27:21 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: hope that UAs do the right thing by default, may take a long time
- 16:27:23 [tantek]
- Zakim, Tantek is in Mozilla
- 16:27:23 [Zakim]
- +Tantek; got it
- 16:27:32 [tantek]
- Zakim, mute Tantek
- 16:27:32 [Zakim]
- sorry, tantek, I do not know which phone connection belongs to Tantek
- 16:27:42 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: fine tuning of this is not something we should do now, if at all
- 16:27:44 [tantek]
- Zakim, mute Mozilla
- 16:27:44 [Zakim]
- [Mozilla] should now be muted
- 16:27:53 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: OK with that, I just don’t like 'fixed'
- 16:28:02 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: can we live without it?
- 16:28:10 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: I’m ok with that
- 16:28:43 [SimonSapin]
- stearns: one of the use case for 'fixed' is German text, disable letter spacing for justification to avoid confusion with emphasis
- 16:28:56 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: ???
- 16:29:20 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: when we see problems, we can engineer the right solution
- 16:29:35 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: 'fixed' seems to be not terribly helpful
- 16:29:43 [SimonSapin]
- plinss: consensus?
- 16:30:25 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: what if you do want letter spacing for justification?
- 16:30:33 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: undefined for now
- 16:30:37 [tantek]
- Bert: "There are newspapers that do that - more than 5%"
- 16:30:47 [dbaron]
- fantasai^: I think not having fixed is what jdaggett originally wanted, so I think we should just resolve on not having 'fixed' and he can object if he wants.
- 16:30:48 [tantek]
- perhaps post screenshots of newspapers that do this?
- 16:30:52 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: we say UAs should "do the right thing"
- 16:31:05 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 16:31:08 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: we need to experiment to see what values/controls make sense
- 16:31:20 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: By default I want that limit at 0 or 5%
- 16:31:59 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: don’t want to leave it completely open. Impls will do letter-spacing without any limit and we won’t be able to get rid of it anymore
- 16:32:07 [tantek]
- Bert: "Would like some way to say, if you use this keyword, then you may use more than 5%"
- 16:32:26 [SimonSapin]
- plinss: the default is to whatever you think is right, 'auto' keyword
- 16:32:39 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: in CJK no one single number gives a good answer
- 16:32:52 [dbaron]
- s/in CJK/when mixing Latin and CJK/
- 16:33:00 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: proposed resolution: accept part one of the proposal
- 16:33:15 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: I do not want to allow that between alphabetic letters
- 16:33:26 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: you have to allow it for 'distribute', need more than 5%
- 16:33:48 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: bert’s proposal is to only relax when you say 'distribute'
- 16:34:01 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: 'auto' means letter-spacing is honored
- 16:34:19 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: I have content with letter-spacing:0 because I don’t want expansion
- 16:34:38 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: existing content that depends on the non-spec behavior of existing impl
- 16:34:56 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: existing content has letter-spacing:0 and expect expansion
- 16:35:18 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: that’s not what the spec says, we don’t have to deal with that
- 16:35:22 [SimonSapin]
- ???: yes we do
- 16:35:28 [SimonSapin]
- plinss: let’s move one
- 16:35:32 [SimonSapin]
- s/one/on/
- 16:35:48 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: my understanding is: consensus except for Bert
- 16:35:54 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: discuss with Bert on the ML
- 16:36:07 [tantek]
- stevez: what is the nature of the existing content that would break
- 16:36:10 [SimonSapin]
- SteveZ: would be helpful to document what existing content would break
- 16:36:24 [tantek]
- fantasai: cjk content that says letter-spacing 0 and expects it to still justify
- 16:36:38 [SimonSapin]
- fantasai: CJK content (no spaces) with 'letter-spacing: 0' that expects expansion
- 16:37:34 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: problem that fantasai mentioned is the cascading problem
- 16:37:44 [SimonSapin]
- Bert: not sure that’s the same
- 16:37:52 [dbaron]
- (fantasai seems to have dropped off the call)
- 16:38:06 [fantasai]
- "hyphenation and justification"
- 16:38:09 [SimonSapin]
- Topic: Conditional Rules
- 16:38:29 [SimonSapin]
- plinss: where are we? Moving the spec forward
- 16:38:37 [SimonSapin]
- dbaron: I don’t really know
- 16:38:47 [SimonSapin]
- plinss: can we look into it and come back to it next week?
- 16:39:04 [SimonSapin]
- dbaron: T&A is higher priority
- 16:39:26 [fantasai]
- Topic: image-resolution: snap
- 16:39:26 [SimonSapin]
- Topic: image-resolution: snap
- 16:39:28 [smfr]
- s/span/snap?
- 16:39:46 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: wrt snap keyword of image-resolution
- 16:39:56 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: It's not really well-defined in CSS what the resolution is
- 16:40:02 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: esp. wrt zoom and transforms
- 16:40:13 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: Consensus on ML seems to be that transforms don't affect snap
- 16:40:33 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: Zoom that changes size of viewport should affect snap, but purely "optical" zoom should not
- 16:41:02 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Need some place that actually defines concept of viewport-zoom vs. other zoom
- 16:41:12 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: This distinction also affects device-pixel-ratio etc.
- 16:41:28 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: The things that 'snap' responds to are same as canvas
- 16:41:34 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Dunno where to define
- 16:41:41 [fantasai]
- fantasai: I think MQ is a good place to define this
- 16:41:57 [Zakim]
- -florian
- 16:42:12 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: What about device-adapt spec?
- 16:42:25 [fantasai]
- fantasai: That might be ok, too. What is the status of that anyway?
- 16:42:35 [fantasai]
- plinss: No WD since 2011
- 16:42:39 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: should poke Opera
- 16:42:58 [Zakim]
- +??P2
- 16:43:10 [fantasai]
- ACTION TabAtkins: Define zooming, 2 types, for insertion into either MQ or device-adapt
- 16:43:10 [trackbot]
- Error finding 'TabAtkins'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Style/CSS/Tracker/users>.
- 16:43:15 [oyvind]
- device-adapt? yes
- 16:43:22 [sgalineau]
- florian: yes, the editor is still at Opera
- 16:43:29 [TabAtkins]
- ACTION Tab: Define zooming, 2 types, for insertion into either MQ or device-adapt
- 16:43:30 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-572 - Define zooming, 2 types, for insertion into either MQ or device-adapt [on Tab Atkins Jr. - due 2013-08-07].
- 16:43:44 [florian]
- Zakim, I am ??P2
- 16:43:44 [Zakim]
- +florian; got it
- 16:43:52 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: visual zoom vs. layout zoom
- 16:44:05 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Define snap to respond only to layout zoom
- 16:44:22 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: Units for image-resolution from-image
- 16:44:24 [dbaron]
- I would *not* use the terms "visual zoom" and "layout zoom" that TabAtkins suggested
- 16:44:38 [dbaron]
- The distinction really has to do with whether there's one viewport or two.
- 16:44:39 [TabAtkins]
- Suggestions welcome, dbaron. ^_^
- 16:44:39 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: 2 values for horizontal and vertical resolution
- 16:44:49 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Think that's out of scope for L3
- 16:45:07 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: When you have from-image, some images can have 2 values
- 16:45:42 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: So CSS should also be able to handle that
- 16:46:18 [fantasai]
- florian: Given from-image is in this level, maybe do it in this level
- 16:46:36 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Could just allow it via from-image
- 16:47:33 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Ordering of dimensions should be same as border-spacing, background-image...
- 16:47:41 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Note it's physical
- 16:47:49 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Well, logical in relation to the image
- 16:47:58 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: Will interact with image-orientation
- 16:48:00 [fantasai]
- fantasai: yep
- 16:48:11 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: Move to ML for details?
- 16:48:23 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Sounds reasonable. Maybe draft up text and bring back to WG?
- 16:48:29 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Anyone else on this topic?
- 16:48:39 [SimonSapin]
- RESOLVED: two X/Y values for image-resolution
- 16:49:04 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: from-image metadata, e.g. png spec has number of image pixels per cm or whatever
- 16:49:12 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: Do we interpret that as CSS units rather than physical units?
- 16:49:14 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Yes
- 16:49:19 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: Clarify in spec
- 16:49:45 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: Clarify spec that CSS units are used for from-image resolution as well as CSS-explicit resolutions
- 16:50:56 [fantasai]
- Topic: Matrix FPWD
- 16:51:03 [krit]
- http://dev.w3.org/fxtf/matrix/
- 16:51:14 [fantasai]
- krit: We wanted to have an interface that can handle 3D as well
- 16:51:30 [fantasai]
- krit: Could have Matrix interface used by SVG and CSS together
- 16:51:39 [fantasai]
- krit: Hopefully CSS will eventually expose the matrix interface
- 16:51:43 [fantasai]
- s/CSS/CSSOM/
- 16:51:48 [fantasai]
- krit: So wanted a joint specification
- 16:51:55 [glazou]
- s/FPWF/FPWD
- 16:51:59 [fantasai]
- krit: would like to ask for feedbac, fpwd
- 16:52:07 [plh]
- q+
- 16:52:09 [fantasai]
- krit: Already asked for review 3-4 weeks ago, no feedback
- 16:52:17 [fantasai]
- plh: You name the interface CSSMatrix
- 16:52:23 [fantasai]
- plh: Do you imply it can only be used by CSS?
- 16:52:42 [fantasai]
- krit: Was called Matrix before, but not happy for WebGL people
- 16:52:46 [fantasai]
- krit: Not useful for them
- 16:52:46 [tantek]
- "Matrix that is proposed for the whole web"!
- 16:52:55 [tantek]
- this aligns with my interests
- 16:52:56 [fantasai]
- krit: Asked us to use a more specific name
- 16:53:33 [fantasai]
- krit: since used for CSS Transforms, called it CSSMatrix
- 16:53:41 [dbaron]
- I'm not convinced be the argument that it should have a CSS prefix
- 16:53:47 [tantek]
- dbaron++
- 16:54:06 [dbaron]
- s/be/by/
- 16:54:30 [fantasai]
- Bert: If we make this SVGMatrix, maybe SVGWG can take care of publishing? ;)
- 16:55:04 [fantasai]
- glazou: Is name of interface a blocker for FPWD?
- 16:55:18 [tantek]
- I suggest we go FPWD without prefix
- 16:55:33 [sgalineau]
- TransformMatrix?
- 16:55:33 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I don't think it is, but should note the issue.
- 16:55:51 [tantek]
- OH: "… then wait for last call to change the name"
- 16:56:05 [fantasai]
- smfr notes that there's also CSSPoint interface
- 16:56:13 [fantasai]
- krit: Also have a DOMPoint interface
- 16:56:25 [fantasai]
- krit: Think I added an issue... it's under discussion.
- 16:56:36 [fantasai]
- fantasai: So, note the issues, publish FPWD?
- 16:56:43 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: FPWD Matrix
- 16:57:13 [fantasai]
- Topic: Flexbox
- 16:57:45 [fantasai]
- fantasai: I guess we discussed converting table-cells to flex items
- 16:58:39 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Do you have @supports yet? I think I would be uncomfortable not having good fallback from flex to tables if we don't have good support for @supports
- 16:58:47 [Zakim]
- -briankardell
- 16:59:37 [fantasai]
- Rossen: min-size?
- 16:59:39 [tantek]
- and look it's the top of the hour
- 16:59:40 [Zakim]
- -??P30
- 16:59:41 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Different issue.
- 16:59:45 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Read & comment on thread
- 17:00:24 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Think we can go with box-fixup clarification
- 17:00:32 [fantasai]
- fantasai: and revisit during LC if necessary
- 17:01:00 [dbaron]
- If you're planning to come (or might come, please list probability) to the Paris F2F, please add yourself to http://wiki.csswg.org/planning/paris-2013#participants
- 17:01:05 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: box-fixup on internal table elements before flex item determination
- 17:01:08 [Zakim]
- -rhauck
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- 17:01:16 [Zakim]
- -TabAtkins
- 17:01:22 [Zakim]
- -glenn
- 17:01:23 [fantasai]
- Meeting closed.
- 17:01:24 [smfr]
- smfr has left #css
- 17:01:25 [Zakim]
- -dbaron
- 17:01:27 [Zakim]
- -glazou
- 17:01:28 [Zakim]
- -florian
- 17:01:28 [Zakim]
- -dael
- 17:01:29 [Zakim]
- -krit
- 17:01:30 [Zakim]
- -Stearns
- 17:01:30 [Zakim]
- -Plh
- 17:01:30 [Zakim]
- -Lea
- 17:01:30 [Zakim]
- -smfr
- 17:01:31 [Zakim]
- -SylvaIng
- 17:01:32 [Zakim]
- -fantasai
- 17:01:33 [Zakim]
- -Bert
- 17:01:33 [Zakim]
- -SteveZ
- 17:01:35 [Zakim]
- -SimonSapin
- 17:01:35 [Zakim]
- -plinss
- 17:01:37 [Zakim]
- -koji
- 17:01:50 [Zakim]
- -[Mozilla]
- 17:02:00 [SimonSapin]
- dbaron, how was my audio today?
- 17:02:29 [dbaron]
- SimonSapin, not great, I think
- 17:03:34 [SimonSapin]
- dbaron: still voip distorsion?
- 17:04:10 [zcorpan]
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- 17:04:40 [SimonSapin]
- hum, I’ll try another setup next time
- 17:04:41 [dbaron]
- SimonSapin, might have been microphone rather than voip
- 17:06:11 [Zakim]
- -shezbaig_wk
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- 17:11:12 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, leif, in Style_CSS FP()12:00PM
- 17:11:13 [Zakim]
- Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- 17:11:13 [Zakim]
- Attendees were plinss, florian, glazou, shezbaig_wk, +1.415.832.aaaa, rhauck, krit, Stearns, dael, Lea, SteveZ, SylvaIng, SimonSapin, briankardell, leif, smfr, +1.417.671.aabb,
- 17:11:13 [Zakim]
- ... glenn, fantasai, JohnJansen, Plh, koji, dbaron, Bert, TabAtkins, [Mozilla], Tantek
- 17:12:21 [leif]
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- 17:17:07 [sgalineau]
- tantek: how does it set a strong example to people whose concerns are legal? can social example mitigate legal issues?
- 17:18:19 [liam]
- didn't see the context but yes, it's a common way that laws get to change because of behavioural changes in society
- 17:20:45 [Ms2ger]
- liam, cc-0 specs
- 17:26:37 [liam]
- Ms2ger, ah ok
- 17:26:45 [liam]
- well, I'm not so sure in that case :)
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