W3C

- DRAFT -

User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference

25 Jul 2013

See also: IRC log

Attendees

Present
Jeanne, Jan, Jim_Allan, kford, sharper, +1.609.734.aaaa, Greg_Lowney, +1.609.734.aabb, Eric, Kim_Patch
Regrets
Chair
SV_MEETING_CHAIR
Scribe
kford

Contents


<trackbot> Date: 25 July 2013

<allanj> -

<allanj> turn security

<allanj> paragraph

<allanj> i

<allanj> n overview to note in 4.1

timeline

<scribe> Scribe: kford

JA: We need to looooooook timeline.
... Origianlly we were going to be at last call.
... Not going to make it.
... On Kelly and myself to keep on more on Track.

JS: Critical item to get on track is to finsih comments.
... That was finish.

J

JS gives shout out to Jan and says we all need to improve on proposals.

Jan Proposal

<jeanne> JS: Everyone please take 2-3 item that are on the spreadsheet labeled "Needs Proposal" and write proposals.

JA: Taking up JR's proposal.

JR and JA sorting out what proposal this is.

<allanj> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0006.html

JA: This started as an action item from two weeks ago.
... This proposal is to put the texst under GL 4.1.

<allanj> proposal: add note to 4.1

<allanj> Note: Some approaches to implementing success criteria in this guideline, and elsewhere in UAAG 2.0, may have security implications. It is the responsibility of UAAG 2.0 implementers to ensure that user agent security is not compromised.

GL: This makes it sound like it is all up to the UA developer but I think we mean that this isn't really all up to the UA dev but more on the platform devs. I think this paragraph gives the backward impression.
... Does that make sense?

JS: Yes but how would you say it?

Group still sorting things out on where proposal came from.

<Jan> Here's the comments: http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/commentsWD-20130701.html

<Greg> I would add something like "UAAG 2.0 assumes that platform accessibility API will be built on top of underlying security architectures that will allow user agents to comply with both the success criteria and security needs."

<jeanne> +1

<Greg> Editors can shorten it a bit later.

Group working through issues and settling on rewording by GL.

JA: Any objections?

None heard.

Resolved: Update with rewording above from GL.

<Greg> It's pretty strange to have a Note under 4.1 that explicitly says it is also about things outside of 4.1.

More discussion about location of text being discussed and applicability.

JR: My biggest concern was just that this was in the overview. Overviews generally cover what comes later but this doesn't come later.

<allanj> Resolution: add UAAG 2.0 assumes that platform accessibility API will be built on top of underlying security architectures that will allow user agents to comply with both the success criteria and security needs. as a note to GL 4.1 remove text in conceptual overview

JA: But there were not big objections so we are going to do this still.

<allanj> close action-848

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-848 Turn security paragraph in overview into a proposed note for the programmatic access GL.

Jan Proposal - rewording GL1.1 SCs

<Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0008.html

JR going through proposal.

JR reading current proposal.

EH: This seems clearer.

<allanj> +1 to Jan's rewording

<allanj> resolution: new 1.1.1 wording 1.1.1 Render Alternative Content: The user can choose to render any type of recognized alternative content that are present for a content element. (Level A)

<allanj> - Note: It is recommended that the user agent allow the user to choose whether the alternative content replaces or supplements the original content element.

JR: Moving something from 1.31D to this area.

GL: What are you referencing?

<Jan> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JulSep/0008.html

<Jan> "NEW (WAS PART OF 1.3.1)"

JR: By moving here, we are being less perscriptive about how to make these indicators and adding clarity to what we want by putting it in this document.

<allanj> proposed: 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A)

<allanj> remove "d" in 1.3.1

<Jan> ACTION:JR write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action01]

<Jan> ACTION: JR write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action02]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-852 - Write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A) [on Jan Richards - due 2013-08-01].

<allanj> resolution: add 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A)

Moving to next item.

1.1.2

<allanj> CURRENT: 1.1.2 Replace Non-Text Content: The user can have all recognized non-text content replaced by alternative content, placeholders, or both. (Level A)

<allanj> - Note: At level A, the user agent can specify that an alternative content or placeholder replace the non-text content. At level AA success criterion 1.1.3 requires that the user can specify one format or placeholder to be used. At level AAA success criterion 1.1.5 requires that the user can specify a cascade order of types of alternative content to be used.

JR reading again.

<allanj> PROPOSED: 1.1.2 Non-Text Content Placeholder: The user can request a placeholder incorporating recognized text alternative content instead of recognized non-text content, until explicit user request to load the non-text content. (Level A)

GL: A verb sir, we need a verb.

<Jan> JR: Trying to match: 2.11.2 Execution Placeholder: The user can request a placeholder instead of executable content that would normally be contained within an on-screen area (e.g. Applet, Flash), until explicit user request to execute. (Level A)

<Greg> "can request a placeholder...be rendered instead of..." but that's editorial.

JA: Any objections to the new proposal?

<allanj> ok with me

JA: Editor will sort out last details.

No objections heard.

<allanj> resolution: add new wording 1.1.2 Non-Text Content Placeholder: The user can request a placeholder incorporating recognized text alternative content instead of recognized non-text content, until explicit user request to load the non-text content. (Level A)

1.1.3

<allanj> CURRENT: 1.1.3 Configurable Alternative Content Defaults: For each type of content that can have alternative content, the user can specify a type of alternative content that, if present, will be rendered by default. (Level AA)

<allanj> PROPOSED: 1.1.3 Configurable Alternative Content Defaults: For each type of non-text content, including time-based media, the user can specify which type(s) of alternative content to render by default, if present. (Level AA)

<allanj> Note: Some types of content may allow multiple simultaneous alternatives (e.g. captions and sign language).

<allanj> +1

<jeanne> ACTION: jeanne to look at 1.3.1 and see if any examples depend on (d)elements with alternative content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action03]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-853 - Look at 1.3.1 and see if any examples depend on (d)elements with alternative content [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-08-01].

Group having a discussion about type or types.

GL: We need to be clear about if a choice is to be made by the user or the developer.

<allanj> resolution: change wording for 1.1.3 Configurable Alternative Content Defaults: For each type of non-text content, including time-based media, the user can specify which type(s) of alternative content to render by default, if present. (Level AA)

No further objections.

1.1.4

Now moving to 1.1.4

<allanj> 1.1.4 Display of Alternative Content for Time-Based Media: For recognized on-screen alternative content for time-based media (e.g. captions, sign language video), the following are all true: (Level AA)

<allanj> - Don't obscure controls: Displaying time-based media alternatives doesn't obscure recognized controls for the primary time-based media; and

<allanj> - Don't obscure primary media: The user can specify that displaying time-based media alternatives doesn't obscure the primary time-based media; and

<allanj> - Use configurable text: The user can configure recognized text within time-based media alternatives (e.g. captions) in conformance with 1.4.1.

<allanj> - Note: Depending on the screen area available, the display of the primary time-based media may need to be reduced in size to meet this requirement.

JR: Change doesn't seem dramatic.

<allanj> ACTION: jim to compare 1.1.4 - obscure media with the media task force guidelines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action04]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-854 - Compare 1.1.4 - obscure media with the media task force guidelines [on Jim Allan - due 2013-08-01].

Group talking about backgrounds for captions.

SH: Are captions different from subtitles?

SH Talks about some work being done by the BBC to move location of subtitles based on user focus.

Group having extensive discussion about does the caption have to be separated from the video.

Issue is that if you make captions so big you start obscuring video.

The situation is boiling down to what happens when youmake caption text so big that you hide too much of the video.

JR: How about if we define obscure and talk about this issue there.

<Jan> ACTION: JR to define "obscure" to allow transparent backgrounds but also raising the possibility of seperation where screen real estate is available [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action05]

<trackbot> Created ACTION-855 - Define "obscure" to allow transparent backgrounds but also raising the possibility of seperation where screen real estate is available [on Jan Richards - due 2013-08-01].

<allanj> PF media task force information http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-media-accessibility-reqs-20120103/#requirements-on-the-use-of-the-viewport

<allanj> close action-854

<trackbot> Closed ACTION-854 Compare 1.1.4 - obscure media with the media task force guidelines.

<allanj> resolution: to reword 1.1.4 to 1.1.4 Display of Alternative Content for Time-Based Media: For recognized on-screen alternative content for time-based media (e.g. captions, sign language video), the following are all true: (Level AA)

<allanj> - Don't obscure controls: Displaying time-based media alternatives doesn't obscure recognized controls for the primary time-based media; and

<allanj> - Don't obscure primary media: The user can specify that displaying time-based media alternatives doesn't obscure the primary time-based media; and

<allanj> - Use configurable text: The user can configure recognized text within time-based media alternatives (e.g. captions) in conformance with 1.4.1.

<allanj> - Note: Depending on the screen area available, the display of the primary time-based media may need to be reduced in size to meet this requirement.

1.1.5

<allanj> CURRENT: 1.1.5 Default Rendering of Alternative Content (Enhanced): For each type of non-text content, the user can specify the cascade order in which to render different types of alternative content when preferred types are not present. (Level AAA)

<allanj> similar to jaws images - use alt, title, caption, longest

JR now going through next proposal.

Not likely to see anyne create this one.

JR talks about how JAWS does do this cascade.

JS: that would not count.
... JAWS is not a browser.

<allanj> +1 to removal

<allanj> kf: is JAWS a browser? it reads a bunch of the DOM.

<allanj> jaws requires a browser to download html

<allanj> resolution: delete 1.1.5

1.1.6

Group now looking at 1.1.6\

<allanj> PROPOSED REWORDING@: 1.1.6 Size and Position of Time-Based Media Alternatives: The user can configure recognized alternative content for time-based media (e.g. captions, sign language video) as follows: (Level AAA)

<allanj> - The user can resize alternative content for time-based media up to the size of the user agent's viewport.

<allanj> - The user can reposition alternative content for time-based media to at least @TWO OF THE FOLLOWING: above, below, to the right, to the left, and overlapping the primary time-based media.

<allanj> - Note 1: Depending on the screen area available, the display of the primary time-based media may need to be reduced in size or hidden to meet this requirement.

<allanj> - Note 2: Implementation may involve displaying alternative content for time-based media in a separate viewport, but this is not required.

Group agreeing on this.

<allanj> resolution: change 1.1.6 1.1.6 Size and Position of Time-Based Media Alternatives: The user can configure recognized alternative content for time-based media (e.g. captions, sign language video) as follows: (Level AAA)

<allanj> allanj - The user can resize alternative content for time-based media up to the size of the user agent's viewport.

<allanj> allanj - The user can reposition alternative content for time-based media to at least two or more of the following: above, below, to the right, to the left, and overlapping the primary time-based media.

<allanj> allanj - Note 1: Depending on the screen area available, the display of the primary time-based media may need to be reduced in size or hidden to meet this requirement.

<allanj> allanj - Note 2: Implementation may involve displaying alternative content for time-based media in a separate viewport, but this is not required.

Summary of Action Items

[NEW] ACTION: jeanne to look at 1.3.1 and see if any examples depend on (d)elements with alternative content [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action03]
[NEW] ACTION: jim to compare 1.1.4 - obscure media with the media task force guidelines [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action04]
[NEW] ACTION: JR to define "obscure" to allow transparent backgrounds but also raising the possibility of seperation where screen real estate is available [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action05]
[NEW] ACTION: JR write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action01]
[NEW] ACTION: JR write new IER for 1.1.X Indicate Unrendered Alternative Content: The user can specify that indicators be displayed with rendered content when recognized unrendered alternative content is present. (Level A) [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/25-ua-minutes.html#action02]
 
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Default Present: Jeanne, Jan, Jim_Allan, kford, sharper, +1.609.734.aaaa, Greg_Lowney, +1.609.734.aabb, Eric, Kim_Patch
Present: Jeanne Jan Jim_Allan kford sharper +1.609.734.aaaa Greg_Lowney +1.609.734.aabb Eric Kim_Patch

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Found Date: 25 Jul 2013
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