14:57:50 RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:57:50 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/16-html-media-irc
14:57:52 RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:53 Zakim has joined #html-media
14:57:54 Zakim, this will be 63342
14:57:54 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
14:57:55 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:57:55 Date: 16 July 2013
14:58:17 ReimundoGarcia has joined #html-media
14:59:44 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:59:51 +??P2
14:59:55 +Mark_Watson
14:59:57 zakim, ??p2 is me
14:59:57 +glenn; got it
15:00:21 paulc has joined #html-media
15:00:24 Zakim, Mark_Watson is markw
15:00:24 +markw; got it
15:00:33 davide has joined #html-media
15:00:45 joesteele has joined #html-media
15:01:06 zakim., what is the code?
15:01:23 +[Adobe]
15:01:27 63342
15:01:36 + +1.760.533.aaaa
15:01:45 Zakim, Adobe is me
15:01:45 +joesteele; got it
15:01:48 + +44.303.040.aabb
15:01:51 +[CDT]
15:01:58 Zakim, Mark_Watson is me
15:01:58 sorry, markw, I do not recognize a party named 'Mark_Watson'
15:02:11 +[Microsoft]
15:02:19 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Jul/0010.html
15:02:21 pladd has joined #html-media
15:02:28 zakim, [Microsoft] has me
15:02:28 +paulc; got it
15:02:35 Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:02:35 On the phone I see glenn, markw, joesteele, +1.760.533.aaaa, davide, [CDT], [Microsoft]
15:02:37 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:02:44 Zakim, aaaa is me
15:02:44 +pladd; got it
15:02:54 + +1.212.512.aacc
15:03:25 JamilEllis has joined #html-media
15:03:31 ddorwin has joined #html-media
15:03:39 JoeHallCDT has joined #html-media
15:03:41 +[Microsoft.a]
15:03:42 zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
15:03:42 +adrianba; got it
15:03:43 Scribe: joesteele
15:03:55 rrsagent, make minutes
15:03:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/16-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
15:03:56 rrsagent, generate minutes
15:03:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/16-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:03:59 rrsagent, make logs public
15:04:18 johnsim has joined #html-media
15:04:19 chair: paulc
15:04:28 zakim, [CDT] is me
15:04:28 +JoeHallCDT; got it
15:04:31 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013Jul/0010.html
15:04:42 Zakim, who is here?
15:04:42 On the phone I see glenn, markw, joesteele, pladd, davide, JoeHallCDT, [Microsoft], +1.212.512.aacc, adrianba
15:04:44 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:04:44 On IRC I see johnsim, JoeHallCDT, ddorwin, JamilEllis, pladd, joesteele, davide, paulc, ReimundoGarcia, Zakim, RRSAgent, markw, adrianba, glenn, wseltzer, trackbot
15:04:54 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:54 On the phone I see glenn, markw, joesteele, pladd, davide, JoeHallCDT, [Microsoft], +1.212.512.aacc, adrianba
15:04:57 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:04:59 zakim, [aacc] is me
15:05:00 sorry, ReimundoGarcia, I do not recognize a party named '[aacc]'
15:05:12 Topic: Role Call
15:05:17 zakim, aacc is me
15:05:17 +ReimundoGarcia; got it
15:05:18 zakim, aacc is
15:05:19 I don't understand 'aacc is', JoeHallCDT
15:05:33 zakim, aacc is ReimundoGarcia
15:05:33 sorry, JoeHallCDT, I do not recognize a party named 'aacc'
15:05:37 +[Microsoft.a]
15:05:43 rrsagent, generate minutes
15:05:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/16-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:05:59 zakim, microsoft.a is me
15:05:59 +johnsim; got it
15:06:04 Topic: Previous Minutes
15:06:08 http://www.w3.org/2013/07/02-html-media-minutes.html
15:06:29 zakim, who's here?
15:06:29 On the phone I see glenn, markw, joesteele, pladd, davide, JoeHallCDT, [Microsoft], ReimundoGarcia, adrianba, johnsim
15:06:31 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:06:31 On IRC I see johnsim, JoeHallCDT, ddorwin, JamilEllis, pladd, joesteele, davide, paulc, ReimundoGarcia, Zakim, RRSAgent, markw, adrianba, glenn, wseltzer, trackbot
15:06:38 topic: Review actions and issues
15:07:06 ISSUE-1?
15:07:06 ISSUE-1 -- Consider moving the Clear Key definition into a separate specification -- raised
15:07:07 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/issues/1
15:07:15 paulc: tracking for now
15:07:28 topic: EME status & bugs
15:07:29 + +1.425.202.aadd
15:07:36 zakim, aadd is me
15:07:36 +ddorwin; got it
15:07:48 paulc: looked last night and saw updated on July 2nd
15:07:48 Editor's draft: http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html
15:07:56 paulc: any changes since then?
15:08:12 adrianba: changed this morning as usual
15:08:21 topic: outstanding bugs
15:08:27 paulc: only 15 this morning
15:08:29 http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo
15:09:16 topic: Bug 21855 - Avoid network traffic and duplicate sessions for the same key(s)
15:09:29 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855#c5
15:09:46 pal has joined #html-media
15:10:03 paulc: wanted people to look at comment #5
15:10:14 paulc: did not see any updates as of last night
15:10:25 +pal
15:10:29 q+
15:10:36 ... was a long weekend maybe no body got to it
15:10:46 adrianba: this is dependent on the next one 21854
15:10:54 ... we are also waiting for feedback on this one
15:11:18 ... couple of meetings since the proposal -- hoping to close this soon
15:11:30 ... assigned to me but can't do any action on it yet
15:11:42 topic: Bug 21854 - Define MediaKeySession life cycle states and/or events
15:11:50 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21854#c9
15:12:05 paulc: we asked David to look, minutes say he volunteered
15:12:14 ddowrin: still waiting for feedback
15:12:26 s/ddowrin:/ddorwin:/
15:12:31 s/feedback/internal feedback/
15:12:50 ddorwin: should be a transition from READY to ERROR -- question to the group
15:12:55 jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:12:59 ... not ready for feedback yet
15:13:05 q+
15:13:06 ... will update next time
15:13:10 q+
15:13:17 paulc: at next mtg will reverse the order
15:13:25 +[Microsoft.a]
15:13:27 adrianba: comment on Davids questions
15:13:35 ... not sure what situation would cause this to happen
15:13:43 ... no objection to happening
15:14:09 ... would most likely signal an error against the element, if you are in READY should be no activity that would lead to an ERROR
15:14:17 ack ad
15:14:20 markw: could imagine output protection could fail
15:14:22 q+
15:14:24 ack markw
15:14:44 last speaker was ddorwin -- not markw
15:14:49 q+
15:15:05 Mark's comment -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21854#c10
15:15:11 markw: we should have a CLOSED state for the key release messsages
15:15:21 ack ad
15:15:37 adrianba: lump that comment in with the general design need for secure key release
15:15:44 +1
15:15:52 ... haven't resolved how we manage the exchange during the winddown of the browser
15:15:55 q+
15:16:07 ack joe
15:17:12 could see a transition from READY to ERROR from output protection as David said or because of an invalid key encountered during key rotation
15:17:17 ack mark
15:17:21 q+
15:17:38 zakim, who is on the phone?
15:17:38 On the phone I see glenn, markw, joesteele, pladd, davide, JoeHallCDT, [Microsoft], ReimundoGarcia, adrianba, johnsim, ddorwin, pal, [Microsoft.a]
15:17:40 [Microsoft] has paulc
15:17:45 markw: I think the status on the secure key release is that it is not required to be mandatory that the browser or window is closing
15:18:05 ... discussion is about the mechanism to store the reporting of these messages
15:18:20 zakim, [Microsoft.a] has johnsim
15:18:21 +johnsim; got it
15:18:24 ... will update the bug with relevant details
15:18:27 q?
15:18:33 ack dd
15:18:51 ddorwin: saving the data can be just as complicated as sending the actual key release message
15:19:03 ... wanted to make sure I understand the event usage so all on the same page
15:19:35 ddorwin:
15:19:53 • Event usage:
15:19:53 ◦ It seems that an application would wait for a keymessage and keyready event.
15:19:53 ◦ If keymessage is received, do a normal license exchange.
15:19:53 ◦ If keyready is received, there is nothing more to do.
15:19:54 ◦ If a normal license exchange occurred, the subsequent keyready could be ignored (similar to keyadded today).
15:20:06 adrianba: it depends on if the application wants to use keyready to do something
15:20:13 .. e.g. present a message to the user
15:20:48 ... another is the solution for 21875 - if you have 2 separate sessions where initdata is mapped to the same key - could use that
15:20:52 ... to move on
15:21:10 paulc: outstanding on David -- more data for you -- will be at the top of the next agenda
15:21:24 ... any further discussion?
15:21:35 topic: ACTION-24?
15:21:44 topic: ACTION-24: Resolve 17203 independent from 17199 (Adrian)
15:21:48 ACTION-24?
15:21:48 ACTION-24 -- Adrian Bateman to resolve 17203 independent from 17199 -- due 2013-07-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:21:48 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/24
15:22:06 adrianba: change I made was that in the introductions
15:22:17 ... which was to the section 1.2.3
15:22:22 ... on sessionID
15:22:26 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html#session-id
15:22:44 ... change I made was remove the language about sessionID being optional
15:23:23 ... and removed old language from previous non-object oriented design
15:23:34 ... request for others to review for old language
15:23:39 Changes look good. (I didn't look for other references to optional.)
15:23:43 paulc: so this is closed?
15:23:50 close ACTION-24
15:23:50 Closed ACTION-24 Resolve 17203 independent from 17199.
15:23:51 adrianba: pending review
15:24:08 paulc: reopne this bug if you have concerns
15:24:16 topic: ACTION-25: And John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 (David)
15:24:21 ACTION-25?
15:24:21 ACTION-25 -- David Dorwin to and John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 -- due 2013-07-09 -- OPEN
15:24:21 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/25
15:24:48 ddorwin: did not get a chance to summarize my notes or revisit prior bug, should have notes this week
15:24:52 ACTION-25 due July 19
15:24:52 Set ACTION-25 And John S to work on corner cases for bug 17673 due date to 2013-07-19.
15:25:06 topic: ACTION-26: Implement bug 19096 in the editor's draft (Adrian)
15:25:09 ACTION-26?
15:25:09 ACTION-26 -- Adrian Bateman to implement bug 19096 in the editor's draft -- due 2013-07-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:25:09 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/26
15:25:45 adrianba: this was straightforward request to add the new type attributes to the media keyneeded event
15:25:53 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-media/raw-file/tip/encrypted-media/encrypted-media.html#events
15:26:15 adrianba: added the type attribute and then noticed that the format of the initdata would depend on that type
15:26:28 ... should be self-explanatory but let me know if you want changes
15:26:31 Changes look good.
15:26:31 close ACTION-26
15:26:32 Closed ACTION-26 Implement bug 19096 in the editor's draft.
15:26:56 topic: ACTION-27: Add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close (Adrian)
15:26:59 ACTION-27?
15:26:59 ACTION-27 -- Adrian Bateman to add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close -- due 2013-07-09 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:26:59 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/27
15:27:11 My comments -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17750#c5
15:27:18 adrianba: added the comments
15:27:35 paulc: should we look now?
15:28:03 adrianba: summarized the comments I made around close in previous meetings
15:28:08 markw has joined #html-media
15:28:11 ... essentially said there is two parts to close
15:28:20 ... one is key release
15:28:30 ... second is effect on a session
15:28:49 ... don't think we need close, application has a better idea of key life cycle than the CDM
15:29:09 q+
15:29:11 ... no specific guarantees
15:29:16 q+
15:29:29 markw: haven't reviewed but would like to do so
15:29:44 ack markw
15:29:49 ... think there are cases where the app knows better what the lifecycle is -- need to check with security folks
15:29:59 ack joe
15:30:40 so only need close if the application can know better than the CDM what the life cycle is?
15:30:53 adrianba: yes -- not sure this is the case
15:31:08 q+
15:31:28 ... only needed if the JS app could provide additional context for the CDM -- the app can provide the hint
15:31:49 ... if the CDM is fully capable of managing the keys, then don't need this
15:32:20 ack markw
15:32:22 need some more time to think about this as well
15:32:52 markw: agree with Adrians rationale, we need a clear example of when the JS app would know better so we have a common understanding
15:33:12 ... would expect that if the media element is destroyed, that could cause the removal of all keys
15:33:25 ... might depend on the type of the CDM specific key
15:33:43 ... but need to check into the this case
15:33:43 q+
15:33:52 ack dd
15:34:10 ddorwin: reading the bug again, most of the discussion is on the close method
15:34:22 ... but also the issue of clearing the keys attribute
15:34:44 ... need to figure out what the corner cases or end-of-lifes cases for media going away
15:34:52 ... maybe src changes should just clear the media keys
15:35:05 s/for media /for media sources/
15:35:30 paulc: so several people are going to review and add comments, we will pick up at next mtg
15:35:33 close ACTION-27
15:35:34 Closed ACTION-27 Add comments to bug 17750 summarising the recent discussion of close.
15:35:42 topic: Bug 18515 - Provide more details on behavior of the media element when the key for an encrypted block is not available
15:35:51 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=18515
15:36:19 paulc: was there an attempt to have an action here? was discussed at previous mtg
15:37:13 ... adrian any progress on this?
15:37:20