13:09:35 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webtv
13:09:35 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webtv-irc
13:09:41 <kaz> scribenick: ddavis
13:09:53 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Any questions from the previous meeting minutes?
13:10:00 <cc> cc has joined #webtv
13:10:15 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: No questions, so approving the previous meeting minutes.
13:10:27 <ddavis> ... Next, reviewing action items.
13:10:45 <skim13> Wook Hyun(whyun) is with me (skim13)
13:11:02 <Zakim> +Mark_Vickers
13:11:06 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: 2 action items
13:11:27 <ddavis> ... First, "giuseppe to share summary of the work of HNTF, suggest which current use cases have already been covered by past TFs and passed on to WGs"
13:11:43 <kaz> s/Sung Hei Kim/Sung Hei Kim with Wook Hyun/
13:12:16 <kaz> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2013Jul/0006.html
13:12:18 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Due date for this action item is next week, so we can review it in the next call
13:12:33 <ddavis> Action: giuseppe to share summary of the work of HNTF, suggest which current use cases have already been covered by past TFs and passed on to WGs
13:12:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-120 - Share summary of the work of HNTF, suggest which current use cases have already been covered by past TFs and passed on to WGs [on Giuseppe Pascale - due 2013-07-17].
13:12:50 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Next action item is "kaz to ask the sys team to extend the time slot to 90 minutes"
13:12:58 <ddavis> ... This has already been done so is now closed.
13:13:03 <ddavis> ... Thank you Kaz.
13:13:29 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: The goal of the Task Force is to analyse requirements for Web on TV.
13:13:42 <ddavis> ... and what requirements have not yet been addressed.
13:13:50 <ddavis> ... Then pass this info on to Working Groups.
13:14:00 <ddavis> ... First, a summary of progress.
13:14:09 <ddavis> ... We have put forward some use cases since May.
13:14:16 <kaz> i/2 action items/topic: Action items/
13:14:30 <kaz> i|2 action items|-> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/products/7 Action items|
13:14:31 <ddavis> ... One way to move forward is to compare our use cases with the Home Network use cases.
13:14:39 <ddavis> ... Thanks to Olivier for his opinions on this.
13:14:50 <kaz> action-119 closed
13:14:50 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-119 Ask the sys team to extend the time slot (of Media APIs TF telcon) to 90 minutes.
13:15:14 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: We also had a discussion with AT&T about how the use cases compare with HN use cases.
13:15:21 <ddavis> ... There are some suggestions in the mailing list.
13:15:37 <ddavis> ... We can extract requirements from the use cases, and then decide if they have been addressed.
13:15:51 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:15:55 <ddavis> ... Requirements that have not been addressed are gaps which we can address.
13:15:55 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:15:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:16:05 <Zakim> + +31.62.252.aaff
13:16:10 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Important thing is to get consensus from this group to move forward.
13:16:24 <ddavis> ... to be more effective in our final deliverables.
13:16:55 <ddavis> Sheau: Are the use cases to be considered as a complete list or is it still open for others to be added?
13:17:14 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Personally, I think the use case list is never complete - it's always possible for others to be contributed.
13:17:17 <kaz> i/Any questions from the previous meeting minutes/topic: Previous minutes/
13:17:49 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: This will help with requirements and gap analysis.
13:18:09 <Mark_Vic_> Mark_Vic_ has joined #webtv
13:18:33 <ddavis> ... It's still in the early stage so I welcome requirements but also new use cases.
13:18:39 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:18:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:18:49 <ddavis> Sheau: Thank you, I agree that they're never "finished".
13:18:54 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Any other questions/suggestions?
13:19:23 <ddavis> ... We also have use cases contributed from Italy
13:19:41 <ddavis> ... Do you have any suggestions to move forward?
13:19:54 <ddavis> whyun: What we're doing is good.
13:20:00 <ddavis> ... I think we can continue like this.
13:20:19 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Back to today's work.
13:20:51 <ddavis> ... Let's start trying to summarise the requirements from the use case list.
13:21:08 <ddavis> s/Italy/skim13/
13:21:34 <kaz> s/whyun:/skim13:/
13:21:44 <CyrilRa> CyrilRa has joined #Webtv
13:21:56 <kaz> s/from skim13/from Italy/
13:22:53 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: What kind of requirements can be summarised from "Use Case One – Tablet Joins Home Network"
13:23:30 <ddavis> Sheau: Can we assume that all devices are running HTML5 compliant browsers?
13:23:58 <ddavis> ... Without that assumption it's difficult to proceed.
13:24:23 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: I agree, we should assume an HTML5 browser environment.
13:24:49 <ddavis> ... This will become a more universal environment so personally I think we should assume this.
13:25:03 <ddavis> s/from Italy/from ETRI/
13:25:19 <kaz> i|What kind of|http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2013Jul/0007.html|
13:25:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:25:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:26:09 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: We need content synchronisation and service discovery ability
13:26:21 <ddavis> ... to have other devices be able to discover these services.
13:27:06 <ddavis> ... But note that some services might be served from more than one device so we should have the ability to aggregate such content/services.
13:27:15 <ddavis> ... This seems to me to be an obvious requirement.
13:27:21 <kaz> i/The goal of the Task Force is to analyse requirements for Web on TV/topic: Use cases discussion/
13:27:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:27:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:27:39 <Mark_Vickers> Mark_Vickers has joined #webtv
13:27:54 <ddavis> Sheau: Even the use case mentions a set-top box, does it really indicate multiple devices, e.g. multiple set-top boxes?
13:28:33 <ddavis> ... There may be multiple STBs that give the impression of being one.
13:28:52 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: That's a good question - we should leave it open to support multiple set-top boxes and multiple services.
13:30:02 <ddavis> Sheau: Also, regarding the final two points, should we just say that there's a requirement for a service protocol ... ?
13:30:36 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: I would think that instead of indicating a service protocol, we should indicate that there's a method for the synchronisation of the services and content.
13:31:23 <ddavis> ... The reason being that there should be a function to synchronise, whereas a protocol may limit our thinking in terms of supporting this capability.
13:31:34 <ddavis> ... We should leave it as open as possible.
13:32:12 <ddavis> Sheau: My question was how the content service potentially fits in between the final two steps.
13:32:16 <kaz> q+
13:33:14 <ddavis> ... There is authentication and authorisation to have content access. Is that something we should standardise? I don't think we should be silent.
13:33:31 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: I think we should capture that requirement and even the requirement of content protection.
13:34:28 <ddavis> ... On the other hand, those requirements may have been addressed already, but we should capture them first and find out.
13:34:49 <ddavis> ... We should capture the requirements first and look for gaps.
13:35:26 <ddavis> glenn: There are at least two specs already for authentication and authorisation. One is from Bell Labs and the other is OITC.
13:35:48 <ddavis> ... They cover authentication, live metadata, tracking, etc. so it might be worth looking into these two.
13:36:22 <ddavis> s/OITC/OATC/
13:36:26 <CyrilRa> S/OITC/OATC
13:36:54 <CyrilRa> oatc.us
13:37:31 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: I'll try to capture that later.
13:37:37 <ddavis> ... Any other input?
13:37:41 <kaz> q?
13:37:54 <ddavis> ack kaz
13:38:12 <ddavis> kaz: As you might know, the W3C MMI group will hold a workshop on 22nd and 23rd July in New York
13:38:22 <ddavis> ... We'll talk about a standard protocol for device integration.
13:38:42 <ddavis> ... Maybe the discussion will include requirements and use cases for this group, so if there's anything useful I'll bring it back to this group.
13:38:48 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2013/07/mmi/ MMI Workshop (FYI)
13:39:04 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: I'll try to summarise everything after this meeting so you'll have something to take to the workshop.
13:39:21 <ddavis> kaz: Sheau will also be there.
13:40:13 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Let's move on the next use case - "Use Case Two – TV Triggers 2nd Screen"
13:41:50 <ddavis> Sheau: Where is the content source from?
13:41:58 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: The source is the set-top box.
13:42:18 <ddavis> Sheau: Maybe at this point, are we thinking that the tablet and STB are communicating?
13:42:31 <ddavis> ... e.g. to a common server?
13:43:21 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: They may be communicating in a peer-to-peer level or through a server. This is not at a level for our requirements.
13:44:08 <ddavis> Sheau: If we drill down from the use case, the function seems to be coordinating between the tablet and STB.
13:44:32 <ddavis> ... So the STB and tablet are already communicating or is the function coming from the cloud?
13:45:01 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: It's unclear to me at which moment we should such architectural models in the discussion.
13:45:22 <ddavis> ... For now I would think that maybe a peer-to-peer communication also serves this communication function.
13:46:12 <ddavis> ... So in this scenario, I'm not sure whether the requirements are based on the architectural model
13:46:23 <ddavis> ... so we should keep it as open as possible at this stage.
13:46:54 <ddavis> Sheau: OK. Until we need something, don't think ahead too much.
13:47:32 <ddavis> ... so maybe some words in the use case are unnecessary, e.g. about the overlay.
13:48:18 <ddavis> ... For example, maybe the user is not already running a particular application.
13:48:49 <ddavis> ddavis: Like push notifications?
13:48:55 <ddavis> Sheau: More expensive than that.
13:49:03 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: So we have some requirements:
13:49:13 <ddavis> ... 1. a method for the STB and tablet to communicate
13:49:16 <kaz> Present: kaz, ddavis, CyrilRa, Bin_Hu, Sheau, Glenn, Sung_Hei_Kim, Wook Hyun
13:49:20 <kaz> Meeting: Web and TV IG - Media APIs TF
13:49:30 <ddavis> ... 2. synchronisation of content
13:49:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:49:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:49:44 <ddavis> ... 3. a method to wake up the application on the user's device, e.g. tablet
13:49:47 <Sheau> s/expensive/expansive/
13:49:55 <kaz> Chair: BIn_Hu
13:49:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:49:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:50:01 <ddavis> ... for example push or something more full-featured than simple push.
13:50:31 <ddavis> ... The web application that receives the push, also needs to get push content so it needs two steps..
13:50:57 <ddavis> ... One for the client to wake up and one to fetch content from the server.
13:51:21 <ddavis> ... so this could be a gap for an existing push specification.
13:51:36 <ddavis> ... Any other comments/suggestions?
13:52:18 <ddavis> ... Moving on to the next use case - "Use Case Three – Tablet EPG"
13:55:01 <ddavis> ddavis: The user should also be able to save for later - add to a queue.
13:55:12 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: OK, I'll make a note of that.
13:55:16 <kaz> q+
13:55:22 <ddavis> ack kaz
13:55:34 <ddavis> kaz: Is there specific time span for the EPG?
13:55:57 <ddavis> ... For example, Japanese providers usually use just one week but sometimes we'd like to see longer, e.g. one month.
13:56:06 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Good question, I don't know.
13:56:24 <ddavis> glenn: Usually two weeks, I think
13:57:39 <ddavis> Sheau: How does that fit into this use case?
13:58:14 <ddavis> kaz: Maybe we should extend the use case a bit to include such time span information.
13:58:30 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: I understand. Most important is that this is context-based.
13:58:38 <ddavis> ... Timestamp is one form of context.
13:59:08 <ddavis> ... For when the provider provides an EPG or targeted entertainment.
13:59:20 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
13:59:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see skim13, Kazuyuki, ddavis, CyrilRa, Bin_Hu, sheau, glenn, Mark_Vickers, +31.62.252.aaff
13:59:22 <Zakim> On IRC I see Mark_Vickers, Mark_Vic_, cc, RRSAgent, glenn, Sheau, Bin_Hu, ddavis, whyun, skim13, Zakim, kaz, trackbot, timeless, sangwhan
13:59:28 <kaz> Present+ Mark_Vickers
13:59:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:59:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webtv-minutes.html kaz
13:59:42 <ddavis> Sheau: The choice of movies would depend on many factors.
13:59:52 <ddavis> ... They may be different depending on the time.
14:00:06 <ddavis> ... Also there will probably be a personalisation filter.
14:00:18 <ddavis> ... They are somewhat secondary.
14:00:28 <ddavis> ... Probably out of scope for our discussion.
14:00:49 <kaz> zakim, mute me
14:00:49 <Zakim> Kazuyuki should now be muted
14:01:03 <ddavis> Sheau: Sorry - I have to leave now in time for my next meeting.
14:01:20 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: I'll let you know after I've updated the document.
14:01:25 <Zakim> -sheau
14:02:06 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: The requirement is targeted entertainment based on, e.g. watching history, timestamp, local tradition, user profile, etc.
14:02:18 <ddavis> ... with suggestions for the user.
14:02:46 <ddavis> ... Any further suggestions or comments?
14:03:24 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: OK, moving on to the next use case - "Use Case Four – Content Sharing"
14:04:45 <ddavis> ... No comments?
14:05:18 <ddavis> ... I can see a requirement that the user should be able to share a link/video in the way they choose.
14:05:43 <ddavis> ... If it's an image, they might be able to share the content directly between devices.
14:06:01 <ddavis> ... Also, authentication, authorization, content protection, maybe even payment could be supported.
14:06:30 <CyrilRa> CyrilRa has joined #Webtv
14:06:58 <ddavis> ... Maybe we'd need a payment API.
14:07:23 <ddavis> ddavis: There is currently no API but there is a payment Task Force looking into it.
14:07:40 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Any other suggestions?
14:08:03 <ddavis> ... Let's move on to the next use case - "Use Case Five – Content Search"
14:09:49 <Zakim> -CyrilRa
14:09:53 <ddavis> ... Requirement from this is that the system should be able to communicate with the backend of search services.
14:10:13 <ddavis> ... Second requirement is service/content aggregation
14:10:18 <Zakim> +CyrilRa
14:10:34 <ddavis> ... so that the content provider can provide an aggregated list of content/services.
14:10:56 <ddavis> ... Also, there should be some kind of parental control.
14:11:32 <ddavis> ... or targeted content filtering.
14:11:51 <ddavis> glenn: Parental control can be combined with authentication
14:11:59 <ddavis> ... because of the use of user profiles.
14:12:03 <glenn> !me
14:12:12 <ddavis> \me sorry!
14:12:34 <glenn> s/glenn:/ddavis:/
14:12:35 <ddavis> s/\me sorry!//
14:13:42 <ddavis> ddavis: We should think about the connection period and whether there's a timeout.
14:14:30 <ddavis> @@@: If the user is watching something in DVR mode and pauses, we should allow for that.
14:14:47 <ddavis> ... A "life goes on" mode.
14:15:02 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: I'll add that to the requirements.
14:15:33 <ddavis> ... Thank you, that's helpful.
14:15:52 <ddavis> ... Let's move on the next use case: "Use Case Six – Tuner Control thru Web Application"
14:16:14 <ddavis> ... Maybe this is a chance for our colleagues in ETRI to help.
14:16:38 <ddavis> whyun: We have reported this use case, based on the presentation shown at 2012 TPAC meeting.
14:17:03 <ddavis> ... Web on TV needs to consider the Tuning APIs. We've been concentrating on these features.
14:17:13 <ddavis> ... We need the web application to be able to control the tuner.
14:17:18 <kaz> s/whyun/skim13/
14:18:03 <ddavis> skim13: [Reads use case: http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/Media_APIs/Use_Cases ]
14:21:11 <ddavis> ... Any questions/comments?
14:21:56 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: The use case addresses the ability of the subscriber to control the TV tuner through their application, e.g. using a tablet as a control device.
14:22:08 <ddavis> ... Will the user be able to search for something in the EPG?
14:22:42 <ddavis> skim13: We have been thinking that the TV is a web platform so with a mouse or pad, the user can get more detailed information.
14:23:10 <ddavis> ... So the user can also search for what they want. Maybe with a tablet but we're thinking of a web-based TV environment.
14:23:25 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: So the control device is a keypad like a Google TV controller?
14:23:42 <ddavis> ... Like a remote keyboard.
14:24:03 <ddavis> skim13: People will have a TV like a computer with the ability to control with a remote.
14:24:28 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Maybe there's the ability to pair the remote control e.g. with Bluetooth.
14:24:43 <ddavis> ... Then the application can actually access the TV tuner.
14:24:45 <kaz> q+ to ask about the difference based on countries (include country/area code as well?)
14:24:56 <ddavis> ... What kind of requirements are you thinking of?
14:25:18 <ddavis> skim13: We're thinking of a local tuner URI
14:25:41 <ddavis> ... And a channel ID for identification
14:26:00 <ddavis> ... Also the TV stream itself should be accessible from within the TV browser itself.
14:26:30 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: So I have three requirements...
14:26:34 <ddavis> ... One is channel ID
14:26:45 <ddavis> ... Two is support for TV stream within the browser
14:26:46 <kaz> q?
14:27:03 <ddavis> ... Three is a tuner ID, but maybe this can be combined with the requirement for the channel ID.
14:27:16 <kaz> ack k
14:27:17 <Zakim> kaz, you wanted to ask about the difference based on countries (include country/area code as well?)
14:27:22 <ddavis> ack kaz
14:27:45 <ddavis> kaz: Given that the TV stream is based on country, we need to think about that.
14:27:56 <ddavis> ... E.g. Japanese has it's own ID system, other countries too.
14:28:02 <ddavis> ... The URI system should consider that.
14:28:31 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: So the TV channels need to be country or region based.
14:29:07 <ddavis> ... Now the last use case - "Use Case Seven – Channel Bounded Applications"
14:29:56 <ddavis> skim13: [talks through use case 7]
14:30:01 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
14:31:39 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: The requirement seems to be context-based.
14:32:12 <ddavis> ... The user needs to get content relevant to the context.
14:32:26 <ddavis> ... For example, during a football game, getting extra info.
14:32:59 <ddavis> ... Maybe authentication is needed again, to ensure trust.
14:33:28 <ddavis> skim13: Mostly this context is controlled by the broadcast service provider.
14:33:35 <ddavis> ... It's a channel-bound application.
14:34:24 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: I'll try to capture as much as I can in a rough draft on the wiki, then I'll send the link to the group for people to review.
14:34:42 <ddavis> ... Following that, we can have further discussion and maybe more use cases.
14:35:07 <ddavis> ... So, we've gone over time. Let's finish up.
14:35:36 <ddavis> Action: Bin_Hu to create draft of the requirements for the group to read through and discuss.
14:35:36 <trackbot> Error finding 'Bin_Hu'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users>.
14:36:02 <ddavis> Bin_Hu: Suggest that we adjourn for today - let's speak again in two weeks.
14:36:20 <ddavis> ... and hopefully get feedback from the MMI workshop.
14:36:27 <Zakim> -CyrilRa
14:36:29 <Zakim> -Bin_Hu
14:36:30 <ddavis> ... Thanks, speak to you next time.
14:36:35 <Zakim> -ddavis
14:36:41 <Zakim> -glenn
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14:37:53 <ddavis> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:37:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webtv-minutes.html ddavis
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14:39:11 <ddavis> FYI: I'll finish off the minutes tomorrow (Japan time) as Kaz would like to make some manual edits to them.
14:39:48 <Bin_Hu> Thanks Daniel
14:40:53 <Zakim> - +31.62.252.aaff
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14:45:56 <Zakim> Attendees were Kazuyuki, ddavis, +1.818.406.aaaa, +1.425.214.aabb, +1.917.693.aacc, CyrilRa, Bin_Hu, sheau, glenn, +31.23.556.aadd, skim13, +31.23.556.aaee, Mark_Vickers,
14:45:56 <Zakim> ... +31.62.252.aaff
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