17:01:13 RRSAgent has joined #webperf 17:01:13 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webperf-irc 17:01:15 RRSAgent, make logs world 17:01:15 Zakim has joined #webperf 17:01:17 Zakim, this will be WPWG 17:01:17 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 17:01:18 Meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference 17:01:18 Date: 10 July 2013 17:02:00 Alois has joined #webperf 17:02:07 robfromdell has joined #webperf 17:03:46 present+ RobDickenson 17:03:51 present+ Alois 17:03:52 present+ JatinderMann 17:07:51 plh has joined #webperf 17:08:01 zakim, this is per 17:08:01 ok, plh; that matches RWC_web-per()1:00PM 17:08:05 +Plh 17:08:41 present+ DanAustin 17:10:28 Agenda topics: TPAC, conference call times, Resource Timing question, preflight JS injection, and spotlight 17:10:29 Topic: TPAC 17:10:32 http://www.w3.org/2013/11/TPAC/#GroupSchedule2 17:10:53 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/ 17:10:54 Alois: Can we have more information on TPAC and when the group should meet? 17:11:50 Plh: After Oct 18, the registration cost increases. I don't believe there is a deadline on registration. 17:12:03 we're meeting on Thursday and Friday 17:13:03 Alois: We should come up with an agenda for the working group. 17:13:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Jul/0001.html 17:13:36 Dan: There were details from the HTML WG mailing list on getting Visas from China. That will be useful details for this groups as well. 17:13:54 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35125/TPAC2013/?login#wbsq15 17:16:26 Jatinder: As for agenda, we should come up more details as we get closer. But two things we should include are make progress on our current chartered specs and also speak with other groups. 17:18:07 Plh: Seeing that Beacon, Resource Priorities, prefetch/prerender are interesting to the HTML WG, and we may even put it into the HTML spec, we should setup some time to meet with the HTML working group. 17:18:39 Plh: Interestingly, I have heard people talk about taking dependencies on Beacon API, and interest in pursuing Element Visibility. 17:24:57 Jatinder: Let's take an action to find an alternative time slot that works for all of our attendees. In particular, we need an alternative slot that works for Australia and New Zealand. 17:25:07 Topic: Prefetch JS Injection 17:26:14 Alois: The idea we discussed was from navigation error logging where the server was down. The idea is that the HTTP would point to a JS that would run in any cases when the page is down. This way we will get real time availablility. 17:29:56 Dan: What about security concerns of injecting JavaScript? 17:30:44 Alois: Analytics already inject JavaScript, so this isn't new. For HTTPS pages, you already can't change the content. 17:32:08 Jatinder: Alois why don't you put together a spec proposal? We can use that document to share this concept around to see if others feel that this may be reasonable from a security point of view. 17:32:17 Topic: Spotlight Project 17:33:59 Dan: I have sent information on the Spotlight. I'm hoping that the working group and others can look into making a public database of performance database of websites on different browsers. Make this data available to everyone. This will be similar to HTTP archive, but it'll be from a performance point of view. The goal here would be that we'll put the onus on site owners to improve their performance. We would also want to provide guidance to h[CUT] 17:35:02 ...their performance. E.g., if you look at the waterfall data of the top 50 sites, you'll see that there is a lot of interesting performance data. With this data, we can push these folks to really improve their real world performnance. 17:35:26 ... I want this group to get behind this and W3C really has the credibility to make this happen. 17:37:05 ...I have spoken to many companies, and they have really found this interesting, including from Google, Amazon, and others. This was also on the list of topics that Philippe covered with the AC. Philippe any comments from them? 17:39:32 --> http://www.w3.org/2013/Talks/0610-performance/ my slides from the AC meeting 17:39:44 Plh: The AC reps didn't seem very interested in this. 17:42:02 Jatinder: The IE team has spent the last six year develop one of the most sophisticated perf labs, so we have some insight here. For example, the sites here will change daily. There will be very large variability on a daily basis as web pages change their content. So I'm not sure how much data can be gathered. At the same time, the top five news sites or travel sites though they do similar things, have very different performance characteristics[CUT] 17:43:59 ...would start to compare these sites as apples to apples, even though they are quite different. Another aspect that I want to understand is the machines used for testing. For example, in the IE Perf Lab we have main pool of machines that we pulled from the Dell Factory floor - simply changing a hard drive in one machine will change its performance charactertics. We really need to understand the details here, especially if this is public and us[CUT] 17:44:35 Dan: I think we're okay with variability, because if some Ad takes 20seconds longer, we would want to show that. I don't think variability is the big concern here. 17:45:13 Alois: What about logins? There are a lot of pages that will require logging in. I wonder who will be paying these costs. 17:49:27 Jatinder: What level of data would we show? It would be useful to help users see causes and correlations. 17:49:44 Dan: We would definitely want to provide as much data as possible, as well as possibly the HAR file. 17:50:42 Dan: You can think of this as YSlow scores or something similar to WebPerfTest.org. 17:58:27 -Plh 17:58:28 Jatinder: Please send some more information so we can review this to understand the challenges 17:58:28 -[Microsoft] 17:58:28 - +1.949.754.aaaa 17:58:28 - +1.626.379.aabb 17:58:29 -[IPcaller] 17:58:29 RWC_web-per()1:00PM has ended 17:58:29 Attendees were +1.949.754.aaaa, +1.626.379.aabb, [Microsoft], [IPcaller], Plh 17:58:34 rrsagent, generate minutes 17:58:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-webperf-minutes.html JatinderMann 19:30:20 Zakim has left #webperf