13:24:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
13:24:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-rd-irc
13:24:02 <sharper> zakim, please clear the agenda
13:24:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:24:03 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
13:24:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
13:24:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:24:06 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
13:24:06 <trackbot> Date: 10 July 2013
13:25:24 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
13:25:24 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
13:25:25 <sharper> Agenda+ New Charter (5m)  [shadi]
13:25:25 <sharper> Agenda+ Metrics W3C Note Status (5m)  [shadi]
13:25:25 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile W3C Note Status (5m)  [yeliz]
13:25:26 <sharper> Agenda+ Easy to Read W3C Note Status (5m)  [klaus]
13:25:26 <sharper> Agenda+ Text Customisation W3C Note Status (5m)  [shawn/david]
13:25:26 <sharper> Agenda+ User Modelling Symposia Update (10m)  [yehya]
13:25:27 <sharper> Agenda+ Alternate Weekly Research - First Topic [sharper]
13:25:27 <sharper> Agenda+ Symposia Timeline [sharper]
13:25:27 <sharper> Agenda+ Next Topic Plan (10m) [markku]
13:25:27 <sharper> Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item): https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/ [sharper]
13:25:28 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [sharper]
13:25:35 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
13:25:42 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-rd-agenda.rdf
13:25:43 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
13:25:44 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
13:26:01 <Yehya> Yehya has joined #rd
13:26:37 <sharper> regrets: Giorgio
13:27:00 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has now started
13:27:07 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:27:10 <Justin> Justin has joined #rd
13:27:17 <Vivienne> Vivienne has joined #rd
13:29:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
13:29:10 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller.a is me
13:29:10 <Zakim> +shadi; got it
13:29:31 <Zakim> +Klaus/Johannes/Thomas
13:29:36 <Zakim> +??P20
13:29:41 <sharper> zakim, ??P20 is sharper
13:29:41 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
13:29:47 <Justin> zakim, ipcaller.a is me
13:29:47 <Zakim> sorry, Justin, I do not recognize a party named 'ipcaller.a'
13:30:02 <Justin> zakim, ipcaller is me
13:30:02 <Zakim> +Justin; got it
13:30:10 <sharper> problem with my mic
13:30:14 <Yehya> zakim, Klaus/Johannes/Thomas is me
13:30:14 <Zakim> +Yehya; got it
13:30:22 <Zakim> +??P22
13:30:40 <Vivienne> zakim, ??P22 is me
13:30:40 <Zakim> +Vivienne; got it
13:30:54 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
13:30:54 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
13:33:07 <Vivienne> zakim, ack me
13:33:07 <Zakim> unmuting Vivienne
13:33:09 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
13:33:20 <markel> markel has joined #rd
13:33:24 <sharper> <http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/scribes>
13:33:59 <Zakim> +??P24
13:34:10 <peter> peter has joined #rd
13:34:16 <markel> zakim, ??P24 is me
13:34:16 <Zakim> +markel; got it
13:35:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:35:40 <sharper> Peter are you there?
13:36:02 <peter> zakim IPcaller is me
13:36:09 <peter> zakim muteme
13:36:15 <sharper> Hi peter, do you mind scribing today?
13:36:24 <peter> sure
13:36:53 <peter> zakim +[IPcaller] is me
13:37:01 <sharper> ScribeNick: peter
13:37:24 <peter> zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
13:37:24 <Zakim> sorry, peter, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
13:37:32 <peter> zakim, IPcaller is me
13:37:32 <Zakim> +peter; got it
13:37:41 <peter> zakim, mute me
13:37:42 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
13:37:58 <sharper> zakim, close item 1
13:37:58 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
13:37:58 <sharper> zakim, take up item 2
13:38:00 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:38:00 <Zakim> 2. New Charter (5m)  [from shadi via sharper]
13:38:00 <Zakim> agendum 2. "New Charter (5m) " taken up [from shadi via sharper]
13:38:19 <yeliz> yeliz has joined #rd
13:38:56 <peter> shadi: charter under review - should be wrapped up by end of month
13:39:17 <peter> ..bit of an issue leaving us in limbo
13:39:35 <yeliz> Hi all, I am having problems with the call so I will be on the chat only today
13:39:37 <peter> ..impact on publishing
13:39:57 <peter> ..no comments on charter
13:40:45 <peter> zakim, take up next
13:40:45 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Metrics W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from shadi]
13:41:21 <peter> shadi: status on metrics note, sadly no progress
13:41:43 <peter> ..needs to go through publication process - weighting on charter
13:42:08 <peter> zakim, take up next
13:42:08 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Mobile W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from yeliz]
13:42:36 <yeliz> We have completed all the comments
13:42:46 <yeliz> completed addressing all the comments
13:43:06 <yeliz> This latest Editor Draft is for review:
13:43:07 <yeliz> - http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/mobile/note/ED-mobile
13:43:36 <yeliz> and how we addressed comments are available here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-rd/2013Jul/0007
13:44:12 <yeliz> I guess it would be great, if people can review and give us feedback on these
13:44:13 <peter> shadi: need to verify changes with mobile note
13:44:28 <peter> ..no objections, only comments
13:44:37 <yeliz> yes, that would be good
13:44:40 <peter> ..need people to verify they're ok with the changes
13:45:02 <yeliz> it would be great if people can verify that they are OK with our changes
13:45:11 <peter> ..we need to check how previous survey was setup
13:45:28 <peter> sharper: I'll check on the survey and send an email out to the list
13:45:47 <shadi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/47076/mobile-public-release/
13:46:30 <peter> sharper: based on comments, everybody's agreed we just need to release to public comment
13:46:57 <peter> shadi: this will be your opportunity to give any objections
13:47:22 <Vivienne> I'm fine for it to go to public comment
13:47:26 <yeliz> Can we get this confirmation asap so it goes out for public comment
13:47:34 <yeliz> :)
13:47:36 <peter> ..several active people who have not responded are: marko, vivian, luz, silvia (to name a few)
13:47:47 <peter> sharper: we've given them fair warning
13:48:29 <peter> shadi: as of now this will give them a week and a bit advance, then next wednesday we can make the decision to publish or not
13:48:41 <peter> ..people currently haven't had enough time to review
13:48:48 <markel> me neither
13:48:56 <peter> sharper: so we can do this next week - myself and markel won't be able to make the next call
13:49:07 <peter> shadi: i can take next week's call
13:49:24 <yeliz> I think giving a deadline would be good
13:49:45 <yeliz> Next week would be good
13:49:55 <peter> ..deadline by next tuesday for comments
13:50:12 <peter> sharper: any comments about mobile?
13:50:15 <yeliz> that's great
13:50:19 <peter> zakim, take up next
13:50:19 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Easy to Read W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from klaus]
13:50:44 <peter> shadi: no authors on the call (easy to read)
13:51:03 <peter> ..spoke with klaus last week, hope to get a draft for next week
13:51:42 <peter> zakim, take up next
13:51:42 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Text Customisation W3C Note Status (5m) " taken up [from shawn/david]
13:52:07 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
13:52:07 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
13:52:19 <peter> zakim, take up next
13:52:19 <Zakim> agendum 6 was just opened, peter
13:52:42 <peter> ack me
13:52:52 <sharper> zakim, take up item 7
13:52:52 <Zakim> agendum 7. "User Modelling Symposia Update (10m) " taken up [from yehya via sharper]
13:53:02 <peter> zakim, mute me
13:53:02 <Zakim> peter should now be muted
13:53:07 <sharper> zakim, close item 6
13:53:08 <Zakim> agendum 6, Text Customisation W3C Note Status (5m) , closed
13:53:08 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:53:08 <Zakim> 7. User Modelling Symposia Update (10m)  [from yehya via sharper]
13:53:11 <peter> zakim, close item 6
13:53:11 <Zakim> agendum 6, Text Customisation W3C Note Status (5m) , closed
13:53:13 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:53:13 <Zakim> 7. User Modelling Symposia Update (10m)  [from yehya via sharper]
13:54:10 <peter> yehya: working on the agenda
13:54:33 <peter> ..comments from yeliz on time and have cut back a little
13:54:52 <peter> ..suggestions about communication between chairs and I will lead session 1
13:54:59 <yeliz> I was just worried that people would get bored:(
13:55:14 <peter> ..kristos will take some notes and will lead session 2
13:55:25 <peter> ..session 3 we aim to make it joint
13:55:56 <peter> ..all other logistical items have been solved - registration is going on
13:56:09 <peter> ..28 participants so far (as of yesturday)
13:56:16 <peter> shadi:up to 45 registered people
13:56:26 <peter> ..publicity helped
13:56:48 <peter> ..will send out an updated list after this call so you can verify the authors are all registered
13:57:06 <peter> ..group members need to register if interested
13:57:26 <peter> sharper: anything you need from us yehya?
13:57:38 <peter> yehya: any experience from last symposium would be very welcome
13:57:56 <peter> ..last bits of work are preparing questions..
13:58:14 <peter> ..waiting on symposium and hoping for an interesting symposium
13:58:39 <peter> shadi: did receive some updated papers from you (yehya) and kristos
13:58:57 <peter> ..will be closing the registration tomorrow and then forwarding on the call days
13:59:50 <peter> ..on closing registration, would be good to update the agenda
14:00:15 <peter> yehya: we will send you an updated agenda
14:00:33 <peter> zakim, close item 7
14:00:33 <Zakim> agendum 7, User Modelling Symposia Update (10m) , closed
14:00:34 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:00:34 <Zakim> 8. Alternate Weekly Research - First Topic [from sharper]
14:00:38 <peter> zakim, open item 8
14:00:39 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Alternate Weekly Research - First Topic" taken up [from sharper]
14:00:55 <peter> sharper: this is starting the new way we'll be doing things
14:01:03 <peter> ..this is still in draft so we can talk about it
14:01:26 <peter> ..possibility of inter group topics
14:01:43 <peter> ..will be part of our research catalog
14:02:14 <peter> ..this is a discussion on how things will work and the best way is to decide on the first topic
14:02:38 <Vivienne> q+
14:02:42 <markel> sounds like a great idea
14:02:52 <peter> ..what do we think about these alternate weekly topics?
14:02:56 <Vivienne> zakim, ack me
14:02:57 <sharper> ack V
14:02:57 <Zakim> unmuting Vivienne
14:02:57 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:03:11 <peter> vivenne: sounds like a great idea
14:03:30 <yeliz> I think this is a great idea
14:03:43 <yeliz> it would be good to discuss different research topics
14:04:01 <peter> ..topic on the value people see on citation
14:04:19 <peter> sounds good to me
14:04:27 <Justin> all good
14:04:30 <shadi> s/citation/accreditation
14:04:42 <peter> thanks shadi :) (was just keying that)
14:05:05 <markel> q+
14:05:13 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:05:13 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
14:05:14 <sharper> ack m
14:05:28 <peter> markel: so we need someone to lead the topic
14:05:44 <peter> sharper: yes and I need to talk with shadi
14:05:55 <peter> ..worry we'd lose some discussion
14:06:17 <peter> ..not sure how we can get a scriber and leader
14:06:35 <peter> ..need to discuss the process with shadi
14:06:46 <peter> ..open to suggestions about how this would work
14:07:50 <peter> markel: really needed?
14:08:02 <peter> sharper: yes, I think recording is valuable
14:08:04 <shadi> q+
14:08:06 <yeliz> I agree with Markel, do we really need a lead?
14:08:09 <Vivienne> I agree Simon, I'd hate to lose the discussion
14:08:19 <sharper> ack ah
14:08:24 <yeliz> isn't it enough to have a scriber?
14:08:49 <peter> shadi: should get the outcome clear
14:09:17 <peter> ..how useful would all the detail be
14:10:02 <peter> ..the more tied to outcome, the more scribers can focus
14:10:13 <markel> q+
14:10:25 <Vivienne> q+
14:10:30 <peter> sharper: agree, important to see how will fit in research catalog
14:10:30 <shadi> q-
14:10:47 <peter> ..will include all our work
14:10:56 <peter> ..including our thought process
14:10:59 <sharper> ack Mar
14:11:31 <peter> markel: I like the idea of a catalog
14:11:43 <peter> ..could be a way of selecting a topic from a subset
14:11:47 <shadi> +1
14:11:53 <peter> sharper: good thing to think about
14:12:20 <Vivienne> zakim, ack me
14:12:20 <Zakim> unmuting Vivienne
14:12:21 <sharper> ack Vi
14:12:22 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:12:33 <markel> yes but I prefer to have a discussion than not having it because of infrastructure issues
14:12:37 <peter> vivenne: was going to say the same thing as markel
14:12:49 <peter> ..if we record it all properly will be a start for a future symposium
14:12:56 <yeliz> +1 to Markel's comment
14:13:04 <yeliz> we need flexible infrastructure
14:13:05 <peter> ..not sure if their is a way to put these into a blog/wiki
14:13:12 <yeliz> otherwise, we will never have research discussions
14:13:25 <yeliz> and we will instead spend time on the ifrastructure details:(
14:13:37 <peter> ..could have a value for other research
14:13:42 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:13:42 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
14:14:05 <peter> sharper: do we concur that the best plan is for me to send an email out with suggestions for topics and people to lead those topics
14:14:13 <peter> ..then create a survey to rank them
14:14:22 <peter> ..if not, I need an alternative proposal
14:14:36 <markel> +1
14:14:39 <Vivienne> +1
14:14:39 <Justin> +1
14:14:41 <peter> ..email to send out topics and leaders and move into a survey
14:14:43 <shadi> +1
14:14:43 <peter> +1
14:14:43 <Yehya> +1
14:14:47 <shadi> q+
14:14:49 <yeliz> +1
14:14:50 <sharper> +1
14:14:55 <sharper> ack shad
14:15:27 <peter> sharper: might be good to jot down some notes in a wiki page about what's expected and how to prepare a discussion
14:16:11 <peter> ..providing some guidance for people to orient themselves
14:16:30 <shadi> q-
14:16:33 <peter> sharper: my plan would be to get some notes into the wiki for friday morning about what we're thinking about
14:16:46 <yeliz> they should be brief and simple, otherwise people give up leading a discussion:)
14:16:47 <peter> ..note about: we expect this to be extended over time and refined
14:16:55 <markel> q+
14:17:06 <peter> ..then send the email out on friday with suggestions and happy for leaders
14:17:07 <sharper> ack mark
14:17:37 <peter> markel: thought - as members of group could be a way of motivating participants with each member (rdwg) leading a topic
14:17:47 <peter> ..lead = chairing and making questions without much work load
14:17:49 <Vivienne> great idea
14:17:54 <peter> sharper: sounds good
14:18:03 <markel> LOL
14:18:11 <peter> ..not sure if we'll get more or less if participants have to chair
14:18:20 <yeliz> lead = should be minimum work:)
14:18:33 <peter> shadi: most participants have some research in progress and will hopefully be a good exchange
14:18:38 <peter> ..hope we don't have to force people
14:18:58 <peter> ..like marke's suggestion of a list of contributions with some sort of a cycle
14:19:15 <markel> definitely
14:19:25 <Vivienne> I think it's a great way to get into leading things for those who aren't used to it
14:19:29 <peter> sharper: good idea, still gives people a way to contribute by putting one of these discussions together
14:19:44 <yeliz> yes, I agree
14:19:56 <peter> zakim, take up next
14:19:56 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Symposia Timeline" taken up [from sharper]
14:20:15 <peter> sharper: am going to put this on the back burner
14:20:29 <peter> ..unless you feel this would be better discussed
14:20:45 <peter> shadi: might be worth while to get some feedback on other's who have done symposiums
14:21:18 <peter> ..we want a quick turn around and on the other hand things do require time but also need mile stones
14:21:54 <sharper> >
14:21:54 <sharper> > -12 weeks - announce call for papers and scientific committee
14:21:54 <sharper> >   -8 weeks - final call for papers
14:21:55 <sharper> What is the difference between "call for papers" and "final call for papers"? Is the first the draft CfP for the group to review?
14:21:55 <sharper> >   -6 weeks - deadline for paper submissions
14:21:56 <sharper> 2 weeks from "call for papers" to paper submission deadline is really too short. W3C default for this is 4-6 weeks (sometimes even 8!).
14:21:57 <sharper> >   -6 weeks - call for participation
14:21:57 <sharper> We haven't done this consistently. Maybe it should be optional?
14:21:58 <sharper> >   -4 weeks - review feedback
14:21:59 <sharper> Let's check with the people who organized previous symposia whether 2 weeks is sufficient to get feedback from the reviewers and relay them?
14:21:59 <sharper> >   -3 weeks - deadline for final papers, announcement of program
14:22:00 <sharper> Given previous experiences with people not responding on requested changes, it may be best to move "announcement of program" to the next stage when we open the registration.
14:22:00 <sharper> >   -2 weeks - final call for participation and registration opens
14:22:01 <sharper> >   -1 weeks - publication of accepted papers
14:22:01 <sharper> We should have the papers published before we open the registration. However, we should not open registration only 1 week in advance and equally 2 weeks from "deadline for final papers" is not enough.
14:22:02 <sharper> >    0 weeks - Day X - teleconference symposium
14:22:02 <sharper> >
14:22:02 <sharper> > +10 weeks - Editors Draft of WG Note for review by the WG
14:22:03 <sharper> Maybe here is some slack? Can we try to get the drafts any earlier?
14:22:03 <sharper> > +12 weeks - WG approval for publication of the WG Note
14:22:04 <sharper> > +14 weeks - Working Draft publication of the WG Note
14:22:04 <sharper> Tight but manageable *if* comments do not require substantial change.
14:22:04 <sharper> > +18 weeks - WG approval for publication of the WG Note
14:22:05 <sharper> Hmmm. This would be deadline for public comments, and then the editors would need to draft up another Editor Draft for the WG to review.
14:22:05 <sharper> +20 weeks - Editor Draft of WG for review by the WG
14:22:05 <sharper> +22 weeks - WG approval for publication of the WG Note
14:22:05 <sharper> > +21 weeks - Publication and announcement of the WG Note
14:22:06 <sharper> This would be +24 weeks.
14:22:18 <peter> sharper: > signs are my comments and so are shadi's
14:22:31 <peter> ..look at it as a timeline (see details)
14:22:49 <peter> ..9 month timeline with call for papers..
14:23:12 <peter> ..what do we agree with and not agree with?
14:24:54 <markel> sounds good to me
14:25:12 <Vivienne> q+
14:25:28 <Vivienne> zakim, ack me
14:25:28 <Zakim> unmuting Vivienne
14:25:29 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:25:36 <peter> manageable timeline - looks good
14:25:51 <peter> vivienne: can you explain the first few details..
14:26:28 <peter> sharper: final call for papers would go out while people still have time to write one
14:27:50 <peter> ..(goes over details)..
14:28:07 <Justin> sounds good
14:28:30 <Yehya> +1
14:28:32 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:28:32 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
14:28:33 <peter> sharper: some of the bits may need to be more details
14:28:41 <peter> s/details/detailed/
14:28:46 <Vivienne> This looks good, but it would good to see it graphically?
14:28:57 <Vivienne> maybe a flow chart?
14:29:24 <peter> sharper: yah a flowchart but not sure how to make accessible
14:29:35 <peter> ..could do a text and flowchart version
14:29:51 <peter> ..not seeing any feedback other than it looks reasonable
14:30:05 <peter> ..shadi and I are talking about making language more explicit
14:30:31 <peter> ..i'll re-write the wiki page and add a flow chart and a timeline calculator
14:30:35 <Vivienne> sounds good
14:31:12 <markel> markel has left #rd
14:31:23 <Vivienne> bye now
14:31:27 <Zakim> -markel
14:31:27 <Justin> enjoy graduation
14:31:29 <peter> zakim, unmute me
14:31:29 <Zakim> peter should no longer be muted
14:31:35 <Zakim> -Vivienne
14:31:37 <Zakim> -Yehya
14:31:50 <shadi> trackbot, end meeting
14:31:50 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:31:50 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shadi, sharper, Justin, Yehya, Vivienne, markel, peter
14:31:52 <sharper> sharper has left #rd
14:31:54 <Zakim> -shadi
14:31:57 <Zakim> -peter
14:31:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:31:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-rd-minutes.html trackbot
14:31:59 <Zakim> -Justin
14:31:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:31:59 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
14:32:00 <Zakim> -sharper
14:32:01 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
14:32:01 <Zakim> Attendees were shadi, sharper, Justin, Yehya, Vivienne, markel, peter