21:00:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
21:00:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-indie-ui-irc
21:00:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
21:00:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
21:00:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM already started
21:00:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
21:00:58 <trackbot> Date: 10 July 2013
21:01:03 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
21:01:03 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
21:01:03 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
21:01:03 <janina> agenda+ TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013
21:01:03 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Update
21:01:04 <Zakim> +??P4
21:01:05 <janina> agenda+ Testing Events Discussion
21:01:06 <MichaelC> zakim, aabb is Katie_Haritos-Shea
21:01:06 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea; got it
21:01:08 <janina> agenda+ User Context Requirements: next steps http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0060.html
21:01:11 <janina> agenda+ User Contexts: identifying  AT [See Below]
21:01:12 <MichaelC> zakim, who is on the phone?
21:01:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Rich_Simpson, Michael_Cooper, Katie_Haritos-Shea, ??P4
21:01:13 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
21:01:16 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P4 is Janina_Sajka
21:01:16 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
21:01:16 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
21:01:19 <janina> agenda+ Renaming POR: Open Discussion
21:01:22 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 24 July at 21:00Z)
21:01:24 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
21:01:30 <Zakim> +??P5
21:02:01 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P5 is Jason_White
21:02:01 <Zakim> +Jason_White; got it
21:02:10 <Zakim> +Rich.a
21:02:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
21:02:33 <MichaelC> zakim, Rich.a is Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:02:33 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger; got it
21:03:48 <janina>  zakim, take up item 1
21:03:48 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:04:25 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #indie-ui
21:04:31 <MichaelC> scribe: Ryladog
21:04:43 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
21:04:43 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, Ryladog
21:05:17 <janina> zakim, close item 1
21:05:17 <Zakim> agendum 1, preview agenda with items from two minutes, closed
21:05:18 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:05:18 <Zakim> 2. TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013 [from janina]
21:05:21 <janina> zakim, take up item 3
21:05:21 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Editor's Update" taken up [from janina]
21:05:31 <janina> zakim, close item 3
21:05:31 <Zakim> agendum 3, Editor's Update, closed
21:05:32 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:05:32 <Zakim> 2. TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013 [from janina]
21:05:34 <janina> zakim, take up item 2
21:05:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TPAC2013 http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Meetings/TPAC2013" taken up [from janina]
21:05:49 <Ryladog> JS: TPAC
21:06:42 <Ryladog> JS: You need visas, means visiting a consulate office and surrendering your Passport for several week. You need to prepare. There is page, a hotel with block of rooms
21:07:07 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:07:19 <jcraig> Zakim, who is on the phone?
21:07:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andy_Heath, Rich_Simpson, Michael_Cooper, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Janina_Sajka, Jason_White, Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:07:24 <Ryladog> JS: Can you help with that the hotel sign up information is not accessible. The hotel looks like a compound
21:07:36 <Ryladog> RS; is this a jail?
21:07:44 <Zakim> +James_Craig
21:08:05 <jcraig> Agenda?
21:08:06 <Ryladog> JS: No , it is where the Chinese take their foreign guests
21:08:20 <jasonjgw> zakim, mute
21:08:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'mute', jasonjgw
21:10:44 <Ryladog> JS: In terms of flight I have suggested Hong Kong there is a border between you need another visa for that. There is a ChenChen Airport that you can get to from Japan with out the multiple Visas
21:11:14 <Ryladog> Katie: I will share my flight info with Janina so we might go together
21:11:15 <janina> zakim, next item
21:11:15 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Testing Events Discussion" taken up [from janina]
21:11:56 <Ryladog> JC: I got 2 of the 3 I said that  wanted to finished. It was a bit more complicated. Should have by this weekend
21:12:23 <Ryladog> JS: It will be a 7 day
21:13:08 <Ryladog> JC: With in 7 days I will be a father by next wednesday. I am working frantically to catch up. I plan to be off of work for about a month
21:13:36 <Ryladog> JS; Our plan is that you will ahve that 3rd item checked in
21:14:09 <Ryladog> JS: Once we see it we will issue a Call for Consensus before the next call if possible
21:14:27 <Ryladog> JC: The call was the last one.
21:15:16 <janina> zakim, next item
21:15:16 <Zakim> agendum 5. "User Context Requirements: next steps http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Jun/0060.html" taken up [from janina]
21:15:19 <Ryladog> JS: It couldnt be issues ext week because Shawn Henry is away, because she is the public relations - so it will be the week following that
21:16:14 <Ryladog> JS: There has been some very good conversation Off list that maybe should be put on list. Can we get some of that on the list so others can see it. esting is important and we want to start that early
21:17:10 <Ryladog> MC: We talked about test harness that the W#C is under developement that may provid ethe features we need. Self excutable self made tests will be relevena for INdieUI
21:17:41 <Ryladog> MC: They develop self executing web-based scripts
21:18:13 <Ryladog> MC: If we determine that this is possible or not viable with the current technology - if not we will have to d manual testing
21:18:39 <Ryladog> MC: It might be better suited to do manual testing. I know Rich has been doing research on his own
21:19:07 <Ryladog> JW: s designed for automated testing to sunhesei automated test and the Infie UI to dospatch event
21:19:49 <Ryladog> JW: I think you could also use the Harness if you register the event and do csomething remote to gererate event san reports
21:20:28 <Ryladog> JW: This could covere a number of Working Group test suites. DOMM EVnets, Pointer Evenets that are important to us
21:21:53 <Ryladog> JW: taht is where we are, but we need to find out from the impleenter what they are ging to do to trigger the events so that will give us the basis for our Testing Plan
21:22:23 <Ryladog> JS: Implementers that normally attend are from Apple
21:22:32 <Ryladog> JS: Is IBM and implementor
21:22:55 <Ryladog> RS: Yes, but, too swamped by ARIA at the moment...
21:23:20 <Ryladog> JS: Maybe James can tell us more of what would be ina DRAFT event.
21:23:35 <Ryladog> JS: I think our last call will be 90 days
21:24:24 <Ryladog> J: Then the Candidiate recommendation - and that is all about PROVING that it is implemetatble - by having 2 implemnatationd
21:24:41 <Ryladog> JS: Normally that would not happen until the end of last call
21:25:25 <Ryladog> JS: I see no probeln with us starting the testing - what Are test cases are and. If we had that all ready early that would be great. But that would be overly optomstic
21:25:56 <Ryladog> JW: We do not know who else is actually writing anything - that will influense the time line and the spec
21:26:10 <Ryladog> JW: They will come up with issue sas they processd
21:26:20 <jcraig> q?
21:26:24 <jcraig> q+
21:26:35 <Ryladog> JS: THat will lgive us an idea of how long it will take
21:27:10 <Ryladog> JC: We  rae adding sutomated teste for every feature that we have to webkit - i hope the other implementer s will f=do the same
21:27:47 <Ryladog> JCL In the webkit soureces we have Indie UI - mother browser vendors oculd start with that - they woul eed to change them a bi
21:27:56 <janina> q?
21:28:01 <janina> ack jc
21:28:35 <Ryladog> JW: They are testing the same thing on the client side for the AAPI
21:29:02 <Ryladog> Katie: am I on?
21:29:17 <Ryladog> MC: We would have to find them ourselves anyway
21:29:32 <Ryladog> JC: Why cant we just assocuaite each test in aech user agent
21:29:47 <Ryladog> MC: we need two impleetations in 2 browsers
21:30:16 <Ryladog> MC: If we dont have the test cases in our info  we do not knwo which test cases map to
21:30:32 <Ryladog> MC: We need to have deficed test statememnts
21:30:46 <Ryladog> RS: The actaull content has to be the same
21:31:31 <Ryladog> RS: The intent is to run test that will work across multiple browsers
21:31:56 <Ryladog> RS: What are you testing to knwo that it works. Native? I am not quie sure
21:31:59 <jcraig> https://svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk/LayoutTests/indieui/
21:32:04 <Ryladog> JC: iwill give you an example
21:32:08 <jcraig> https://svn.webkit.org/repository/webkit/trunk/LayoutTests/indieui/create-uirequestevent.html
21:33:04 <Ryladog> JC: This directory in the Web kit tests whether or not the type and cancellable. Functions that should be true that re specific to eb kit requester files
21:33:39 <Ryladog> JW: Could somebody take that and rewrite it generic to run on the W3C test harness?
21:33:50 <Ryladog> JC: Yes
21:34:08 <Ryladog> JS: That is what the W3C is about generic
21:34:22 <Ryladog> MCL We not necisarily
21:35:03 <Ryladog> MC: The big thing is if UA 1 has the same UA 2 information and treats it the same way
21:35:12 <Ryladog> JC: that is fair enough
21:35:48 <Ryladog> JC: If there is a way to make these completely generic - that would be fine. In the case of ARIA the API was platform specific
21:36:48 <Ryladog> RS: I think that could be included in the test case. It is only differrnet in how you exersize it for vaiou platfomrs?
21:37:19 <Ryladog> RS: lets say for iOS they may have a special IA model for voice and keyboad it may be different on an Android machine
21:37:50 <Ryladog> JC: I think what Rich is asking for is we can run simulated events
21:38:20 <Ryladog> JS: we do not expect every machne is going to provid ethe same UI - we do expect then to be dofferenet atctaully
21:38:37 <Ryladog> JS: We do expect authors to provide simplified markup
21:38:56 <Ryladog> MC: We are expect user input event is made on-click event it made
21:39:17 <Ryladog> MC: Do we need that abstarction layer otr not
21:39:38 <Ryladog> MC: Thsi is also important for test reporting ona platform by platform basis
21:40:02 <Ryladog> JW: We can test at that level genrucaly at that level
21:40:42 <Ryladog> JS: It would eryainly be a win for us if this could be automated - is that it woudd allow users to test their work while devloping
21:41:18 <Ryladog> MC: I thinnk someone is trying to speak but they are not getting through
21:42:02 <Ryladog> JW; If we knew what 2 seperate impleneters were going to do it would help us
21:42:29 <Ryladog> JS: Chrome is also implementing, didnt Dominic say that. Maybe we should ping them
21:42:34 <Ryladog> RS: yes
21:42:49 <Ryladog> JS: Mizilla wa s a little less specific about it
21:43:18 <Ryladog> JC:: They are probably just going to make what we did for SP which woukd mean it is the smae implemetation
21:43:53 <Ryladog> JS: That would be the same sources code with out any changes I would say no
21:44:30 <Ryladog> JS: It has to be 2 different implementations - if the code base is sugnificantly differeent'
21:44:52 <Ryladog> JS: Which means we really do need Mozilla or something else
21:45:27 <Ryladog> RS: What if is was the same codes on the same broswer on different platforms?
21:45:37 <Ryladog> JS: I do not thonk that woud be OK
21:46:04 <Ryladog> JW: Again if we can find out if it is not confidentail - that would help us quite a bit
21:46:21 <Ryladog> RS: Well I can reach out to the Mozilla rep on thos group?
21:46:28 <Ryladog> JS: I do not knwo that we have one
21:46:39 <Ryladog> MC: We do not have one - thathasjoined
21:46:57 <Ryladog> JS: so that may be somethong
21:47:13 <Ryladog> RS: Microsoft just joined - we proably reach out to MOzilla
21:47:36 <Ryladog> JS: I would be much more comfortable if we knoew MOzilla were doing this
21:49:01 <Ryladog> JS: Hpw many seperate test case we would have in 1.0, will we have more than 100
21:49:05 <Ryladog> JC: Possible
21:49:30 <Ryladog> JS; Not the size of ARIA 700 hundered something
21:49:47 <Ryladog> zakim, next item
21:49:47 <Zakim> agendum 6. "User Contexts: identifying  AT" taken up [from See Below]
21:49:51 <janina> zakim, next item
21:49:51 <Zakim> agendum 6 was just opened, janina
21:50:18 <Ryladog> JS: Are we done collecting?
21:50:35 <Ryladog> JW: Yes the document I had posted and was taken tp the WIKI thanks MC
21:50:37 <Ryladog> JW:
21:50:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
21:50:58 <Ryladog> we do need to obtain use cases  1 for each section at a monimum
21:51:14 <Ryladog> JW: If we could come up wt  test cases that would be useful as well
21:51:24 <Ryladog> JW: I dod review ISO req
21:51:39 <Ryladog> JW: I am still waiting to get a copy of the document
21:51:52 <Ryladog> AH: I will get that to you
21:52:13 <Ryladog> JW: It will take it in that cotext
21:52:42 <Ryladog> JW: I will consult with others on ISO 27452
21:52:56 <Ryladog> JW: I will compleet that after I read it
21:53:11 <Ryladog> AH: I will post it after this call
21:53:53 <Ryladog> JW: Next week is fine for me - the only thing is Use Cases to justify and explain all that we need for the vaious requiremenets
21:54:08 <Ryladog> JW: I think we have covred that all have proposed to the WG
21:54:26 <Ryladog> AH : I ill try to get you something ont he Use cases
21:54:40 <Ryladog> AH: I can write
21:54:50 <Ryladog> JW: Use the same model we have
21:55:04 <Ryladog> MC: I foul the Events to be over-froaml
21:55:17 <Ryladog> MC: The biggest thing is to capture the thought
21:55:43 <Ryladog> MC I was going to go looking for something from other WG - W3C does not have any canonical requirement s for Usse cases
21:56:05 <Ryladog> ACTION: Andy Heath to provide Use Cases
21:56:05 <trackbot> Created ACTION-61 - Heath to provide Use Cases [on Andy Heath - due 2013-07-17].
21:56:51 <Ryladog> JW: We do not have any rationale for any of them - and I think that is very important. If we dont have justification that will be a problem
21:57:13 <Ryladog> JS: I think we will not have that conversation until James is able to retyrn
21:57:29 <Ryladog> AH; My youngest is 22 and I am stil doing the job
21:57:39 <Ryladog> RS; Dont scare him Andy
21:58:13 <Ryladog> JS: That give sus about a month anyway before we have th knoock down drag out as to what we keep and what gets trhouwn out
21:58:33 <Ryladog> RS: How close are we to getting to what we came u with in Lyon?
21:58:42 <MichaelC> action-61: use cases for user context
21:58:42 <trackbot> Notes added to ACTION-61 Heath to provide Use Cases.
21:58:48 <jcraig> https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
21:58:51 <Ryladog> JC; Verey close. The existing stuff for the prodcut is here...
21:59:03 <Ryladog> JCL Which is 4 issue and 15 actions
21:59:27 <Ryladog> JC:Potetailly all of those would need to be done, Some are quicj fixes
21:59:45 <MichaelC> trackbot, assocaite action-61 with product-3
21:59:45 <trackbot> Sorry, MichaelC, I don't understand 'trackbot, assocaite action-61 with product-3'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
21:59:53 <MichaelC> trackbot, associate action-61 with product-3
21:59:53 <trackbot> ACTION-61 (Heath to provide Use Cases) associated with PRODUCT-3.
21:59:56 <Ryladog> JC; I think there is a potentail ROLE
22:00:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/potentail/potential/
22:00:24 <Ryladog> JC; If we didnt address marquee for this release would that be OK?
22:00:39 <Ryladog> JC: If we are relying on ARIA we would fail
22:00:52 <Ryladog> JC: We have to make clear to the est of W3C
22:01:31 <Ryladog> JS: We have always said it but I do not think it has had much uptake
22:02:00 <Ryladog> JW: People who have accessneds who are not using AT will not be able to yatake advatage of it
22:02:48 <Ryladog> RS: Are we going to update to have device independent stuff so it does not depend on keyboard events
22:03:18 <Ryladog> MC: WebDeveloper.org and move the
22:03:28 <Ryladog> RS: I would rather have it there too
22:03:36 <Ryladog> JSl I agree
22:04:11 <jcraig> s/accessneds/access needs/
22:04:45 <jcraig> s/yatake/to take/gi
22:05:55 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:05:56 <Zakim> -Rich_Simpson
22:05:56 <Zakim> -James_Craig
22:05:57 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
22:05:58 <Zakim> -Jason_White
22:06:00 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
22:06:04 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
22:06:29 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
22:06:31 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
22:06:31 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.412.901.aaaa, Michael_Cooper, Andy_Heath, Rich_Simpson, +1.703.861.aabb, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Janina_Sajka, Jason_White, Rich, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, James_Craig
22:09:09 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
22:09:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-indie-ui-minutes.html janina
22:09:23 <janina> zakim, bye
22:09:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #indie-ui
22:09:30 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
22:09:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-indie-ui-minutes.html janina
22:09:33 <Ryladog> rrsagent, create minutes
22:09:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-indie-ui-minutes.html Ryladog
22:15:33 <Ryladog> rrsagent, please part
22:15:33 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-indie-ui-actions.rdf :
22:15:33 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Andy Heath to provide Use Cases [1]
22:15:33 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/10-indie-ui-irc#T21-56-05