15:00:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/09-wai-wcag-irc
15:00:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:00:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:00:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM already started
15:00:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:00:09 <trackbot> Date: 09 July 2013
15:00:16 <Loic> Loic has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:46 <Zakim> +??P13
15:00:50 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:00:50 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:00:57 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:07 <Loic> Zakim, ??P13 is me
15:01:07 <Zakim> +Loic; got it
15:01:16 <korn> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:16 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.650.506.aaaa, David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea, [Adobe], Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joshue, Loic
15:01:27 <korn> Zakim, aaaa is Peter_Korn
15:01:28 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
15:01:31 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
15:01:43 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:01:50 <AWK> Zakim, Adobe is AWK
15:01:50 <Zakim> +AWK; got it
15:02:14 <Zakim> +??P20
15:03:12 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:03:12 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:03:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:23 <AWK> Scribe David
15:03:24 <Loic> Zakim, mute me
15:03:26 <Zakim> Loic should now be muted
15:03:30 <Loretta> zakim, IPCaller is Loretta
15:03:30 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
15:03:56 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:04:11 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
15:04:22 <MichaelC> scribe: David
15:04:48 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013JulSep/0002.html
15:04:51 <David> AWK: two surveys to get through
15:05:01 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/Ultimate/
15:05:08 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wai-wcag
15:06:09 <David> Topic: Ultimate version of WCAG 2 ICT
15:06:47 <David> RESOLUTION: Accept all issues unanimous consent  items 1, 2 5, 7
15:10:07 <AWK> Proposed change: "Note: This success criterion is primarily for software developers who develop or use custom user interface components. Standard user interface components on most accessibility supported platforms already satisfy this success criterion when used according to specification".
15:10:18 <David> RESOLUTION: Accept all issues of unanimous consent Accept as proposed 1) Short name of the document 2) Remove accidental statement that this Note addresses conformance 5) Comment Period Length 7) Format of the WCAG2ICT presentation
15:11:05 <greggvanderheiden>  Standard user interface components on most accessibility supported platforms already does this when used according to specification".
15:11:40 <David> TOPIC: Fix our Note in SC 4.1.2 to tell readers this is for "software developers" (rather than for "Web authors")
15:11:55 <greggvanderheiden> Standard user interface components on most accessibility supported platforms already do this when used according to specification
15:13:46 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:14:21 <David> GV we have approval from the WCAG2ICT TF to speak for the task for on this call to approve any necessary changes, the TF members here can act in the capacity of the TF
15:14:37 <korn> q+
15:14:57 <Joshue108> ack korn
15:14:59 <David> RESOLUTION: accept Fix our Note in SC 4.1.2 to tell readers this is for "software developers" (rather than for "Web authors")  as amended
15:15:49 <David> TOPIC: Characterization of this document
15:16:45 <AWK> Currently: This document is an Editors’ Draft being developed by the WCAG2ICT Task Force (“Task Force”) operating under the terms of its Work Statement, and under the coordination and review of the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group (WCAG WG), which is part of the Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) of the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C). This is a final draft before submitting to W3C for publication as a Working Group Note. The WCAG2ICT Ta[CUT]
15:17:03 <korn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wcag2ict/#sotd
15:17:04 <AWK>  work is consistent with the WCAG WG Charter that includes the following under its scope: “Coordinating with other entities adopting and using WCAG 2.0”. @@This document is planned to be the final version before submitting to W3C for publication as a Working Group Note.
15:17:35 <Joshue108> This version is expected to be a final draft before submitting to W3C for publication as a Working Group Note.
15:17:59 <Zakim> +James_nurthen
15:18:23 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
15:18:27 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:18:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:20:42 <Joshue108> +1 to Michael
15:21:55 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
15:21:55 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:22:12 <David> RESOLUTION: Accepted as proposed, characterization of this document
15:23:00 <David> TOPIC: Acceptance of the full text of WCAG2ICT Working Group Note for publication
15:23:26 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:23:26 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:24:26 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
15:24:26 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:24:45 <David> Loretta, concerned about all of the names at the too
15:24:51 <Joshue108> +q
15:26:41 <David> Loretta, definition editors, vs authors, seems different...
15:27:09 <David> MC: This is a new trend to credit major contributors.
15:30:17 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:30:17 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:31:28 <Joshue108> np
15:31:32 <Loretta> Understanding WCAG 2.0 and other WCAG 2.0 supporting documents will continue to focus on web technologies...
15:35:58 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
15:37:54 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
15:37:54 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:38:34 <Joshue108> +1 from me
15:38:39 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:38:39 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:39:06 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wai-wcag
15:39:27 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:39:35 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
15:39:35 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:39:38 <Joshue108> ack me
15:40:14 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:40:22 <Joshue108> Some suggested text ""Assistive technologies are developed alongside text applications, and several of these use a variety of analysis and scripting techniques to make text applications accessible. Although there are far fewer new text applications being actively developed, they still are being developed and remain in use today"
15:40:58 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:40:58 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:41:50 <Joshue108> My comments relate to http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-wcag2ict-20130606/#command_line_interfaces btw
15:43:38 <korn> This applies directly as written and as described in the WCAG 2.0 glossary, replacing replacing “acts as a user agent” with “acts stand-alone”, replacing “mainstream user agent[s]” with “mainstream information and communication technology/ies” (later "mainstream ICT"), and replacing “Web content” with “content”.
15:44:25 <korn> This applies directly as written and as described in the WCAG 2.0 glossary, replacing replacing “acts as a user agent” with “acts stand-alone”, replacing “mainstream user agent[s]” with “mainstream information and communication technologies” (later "mainstream ICT[s]"), and replacing “Web content” with “content”.
15:45:11 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
15:45:12 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:46:50 <Joshue108> "Because this document deals with applying WCAG, which is a standard for web accessibility, to ICT [...]" or ""Because this document deals with applying WCAG, which is a standard for web content, to ICT [...]"
15:51:35 <David> Joshue to review section on command lines during call, may make suggestion later incall
15:51:47 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:51:47 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:53:49 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
15:53:49 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:54:13 <Joshue108> "Historically, assistive technologies developed in tandem with text applications, and several of these assistive technologies used a variety of analysis and scripting techniques to make text applications accessible. Although there are far fewer new text applications being actively developed, they still are being developed and remain in use today."
15:56:45 <David> Peter: our experts wanted to make clear that Text based AT is still active... would rather not remove that text
15:58:01 <Joshue108> Historically, assistive technologies developed alongside text applications [...]
15:58:04 <David> Joshue, ok, would like to keep the word "historically" from my recommendation
15:58:13 <Joshue108> +1 to me
15:58:16 <David> Peter, OK
15:59:09 <David> RESOLUTION: Accept of the full text of WCAG 2 ICT for publication
15:59:31 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:59:31 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:59:51 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130709_referencing/results
16:00:18 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:01:18 <David> TOPIC:  Changes to Understanding, Techniques, and Quickref to clarify referencing WCAG issues
16:03:49 <shawn> shawn has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:00 <jamesn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-WCAG20-TECHS-20130711/#abstract
16:04:21 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
16:04:21 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:04:26 <David> RESOLUTION: Accept unanimous consent items Rewritten Techniques Abstract, Rewritten Introduction to How to Meet WCAG 2.0, Blurb at bottom of techniques, Modified blurb before lists of techniques in Understanding, Announce public review drafts of updated Understanding and Techniques?
16:04:56 <Zakim> +Shawn
16:06:29 <David> Topic: New section in Understanding: Understanding Techniques for WCAG Success Criteria
16:08:09 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20130711/intro.html
16:09:56 <AWK> Zakim, who is in the queue?
16:09:56 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, AWK.
16:09:57 <David> q+
16:10:15 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:10:15 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:11:11 <Joshue108> ack dav
16:11:41 <shawn> q+ to say EOWG Rationale: The Techniques document is not intended to be read, nor usually is read, as a whole document; whereas, the Understanding document is intended to be read more thoroughly.
16:12:07 <shawn> ack me
16:12:07 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say EOWG Rationale: The Techniques document is not intended to be read, nor usually is read, as a whole document; whereas, the Understanding document is
16:12:10 <Zakim> ... intended to be read more thoroughly.
16:12:24 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
16:13:48 <David> Shawn, EO would rather have it in the understanding b/c it is more of a study doc, where techniqes are a reference
16:14:13 <David> Gregg, let's defer to EO, their area, easiest for them to support it
16:14:31 <Joshue108> zakim, umute me
16:14:31 <Zakim> I don't understand 'umute me', Joshue108
16:14:35 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
16:14:35 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:14:43 <Joshue108> Fine with me 2
16:16:26 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20130711/understanding-techniques.html
16:19:18 <Joshue108> +q
16:19:29 <David> s/Shawn,/Shawn:
16:19:43 <Joshue108> ack me
16:19:57 <David> s/Gregg,/Gregg:
16:20:13 <korn> q+
16:20:29 <Joshue108> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20130711/understanding-techniques.html
16:22:40 <AWK> ack korn
16:22:50 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:22:50 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:23:12 <shawn> [ Shawn agrees with Andrew that it gets more visbility where it is (and in the Sufficient Techniques section there is a pointer to it); however, I don't feel strongly and think EOWG would be OK with moving it if folks feel strongly]
16:23:20 <korn> q-
16:24:36 <Joshue108> +q
16:25:14 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
16:25:14 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:25:14 <korn> q+
16:25:17 <AWK> ack Josh
16:25:45 <korn> q-
16:26:51 <shawn> [ Shawn thinks we would need to do UT to really know what users read. I think they will see the "Techniques are Informative" that comes first. I don't know that people will only jump to the Sufficient Techniques section. but don't know...]
16:27:27 <Joshue108> +q
16:27:44 <AWK> ack J
16:29:23 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:29:23 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:30:16 <korn> q+
16:30:20 <jamesn> q+ to note that I would prefer it to stay how it is
16:30:33 <jamesn> +1 for no move
16:31:56 <shawn> [ Shawn doesn't think that she'll have time to do usability testing to figure out where people see it better. although, perhaps I can get some EOWG folks to...]
16:32:01 <AWK> ack J
16:32:01 <Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to note that I would prefer it to stay how it is
16:32:15 <Joshue108> ack korn
16:34:11 <David> Peter: leave it in both places. Beginning of document. "Sufficient techniques are reliable ways to meet the success criteria; but they are not required nor should they be."
16:34:20 <Joshue108> +q
16:35:25 <David> s/Beginning of document./Put it as the first sentence of "Sufficient Techniques"
16:35:39 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
16:35:39 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:36:05 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
16:36:09 <shawn> q+ to ask for clarification
16:36:27 <shawn> ack me
16:36:27 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask for clarification
16:36:33 <David> Joshue: Wants to leave it
16:37:09 <David> Shawn: I would point to the top of the document, not to the sufficient technique section.
16:37:49 <korn> q+
16:37:56 <David> Gregg: I think they would look for the sufficient technique section, not from the too of the page.
16:38:30 <AWK> ack j
16:38:42 <AWK> ack korn
16:38:59 <AWK> ack awk
16:39:01 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:39:01 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:39:02 <AWK> q+
16:39:05 <korn> "Sufficient techniques are reliable ways to meet the success criteria; but they are not required nor should they be."
16:39:29 <Joshue108> i don't have a problem with that either!
16:39:32 <David> Peter: If we want to stress the point that sufficient techniques are not required, put to at the top of the document, and t
16:39:42 <David> the top of the sufficient techniues
16:39:57 <korn> q-
16:40:10 <David> s/techniues/techniques
16:41:06 <Joshue108> +q
16:41:17 <Joshue108> ack AWK
16:42:01 <shawn> q+ to say EOWG perspective
16:42:22 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
16:42:22 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:42:29 <AWK> ack J
16:42:30 <Joshue108> ack me
16:42:38 <shawn> q+ to say don't want to minimize the sufficient techniques
16:42:55 <AWK> q+
16:43:17 <AWK> ack s
16:43:17 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say EOWG perspective and to say don't want to minimize the sufficient techniques
16:43:18 <shawn> q+ to say maybe "Sufficient techniques are reliable ways to meet the success criteria (yet they are not required)."
16:43:20 <shawn> ack me
16:43:21 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say maybe "Sufficient techniques are reliable ways to meet the success criteria (yet they are not required)."
16:43:21 <Joshue108> ack shawn
16:43:38 <AWK> q-
16:44:07 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:44:07 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:45:22 <AWK> q+
16:45:25 <David> Shawn: 	EOWG perspective ... don't want to minimize the sufficient techniques... maybe "Sufficient techniques are reliable ways to meet the success criteria (yet they are not required)." want to be careful not to water down the perception of the value of Suf. Techs
16:47:01 <David> Gregg: agree with Shawn, Suf Techs not the only way to do WCAG and should not be required
16:47:32 <korn> +1 to getting this draft out the door, and continue thinking about edits to this for the final publication.
16:48:36 <David> RESOLUTION: Accept as proposed Rewritten Introduction to Techniques for WCAG 2.0
16:48:55 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/2013/WD-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20130711/intro.html#introduction-layers-techs-head
16:49:28 <David> Topic: Rewritten Sufficient and Advisory Techniques section of Understanding intro
16:50:49 <David> RESOLUTION: Accept Topic: Rewritten Sufficient and Advisory Techniques section of Understanding intro as proposed
16:51:46 <David> TOPIC: Rewritten Introduction to Techniques for WCAG 2.0
16:51:59 <David> RESOLUTION: accept Rewritten Introduction to Techniques for WCAG 2.0 as proposed
16:52:26 <David> TOPIC: Proposed FAQ additions
16:53:01 <David> Gregg: don't need to do this now, I have some important comments... so we can defer to later
16:53:11 <shawn> q+
16:53:19 <AWK> q-
16:53:28 <shawn> ack me
16:53:48 <Zakim> -James_nurthen
16:54:01 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
16:54:01 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:54:03 <Joshue108> +q
16:54:25 <Joshue108> ack me
16:54:29 <David> SHAWN: we can defer this confirms Gregg's position
16:56:02 <David> we can leave it in this place and refine it, and at some later draft roll it into the understanding
16:56:07 <Joshue108> +1
16:57:11 <shawn> s/SHAWN: we can defer this confirms Gregg's position/SHAWN: we can change the FAQ later, independent of the publications (confirms Gregg's comment)
16:57:20 <David> RESOLUTION: Publish this Understanding DOC in unison with WCAG2ICT same run
16:57:51 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
16:57:53 <Zakim> -Loretta
16:57:53 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:57:54 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
16:57:55 <Zakim> -AWK
16:57:57 <Zakim> -Shawn
16:57:57 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:57:58 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:57:59 <Zakim> -Loic
16:58:09 <David> RESOLUTION: Publish techniques with Understanding also
16:58:43 <AWK> zakim who is on the phone?
16:58:49 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:58:50 <David> zakim, bye
16:58:50 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +1.650.506.aaaa, David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Joshue, Loic, Peter_Korn, Gregg_Vanderheiden, AWK,
16:58:50 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
16:58:53 <Zakim> ... Michael_Cooper, Loretta, Marc_Johlic, James_nurthen, Shawn, Bruce_Bailey
16:58:54 <AWK> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:59:03 <David> rrsagent, make log public
16:59:17 <David> rrsagent, make minutes
16:59:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html David
17:42:45 <korn> korn has left #wai-wcag
22:23:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
22:23:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/09-wai-wcag-irc
22:23:27 <MichaelC> present+ James_Nurthen
22:23:31 <MichaelC> chair: Andrew_Kirkpatrick
22:23:41 <MichaelC> present- +1.650.506.aaaa
22:23:56 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
22:24:00 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
22:24:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/09-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
22:24:09 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
22:24:09 <RRSAgent> I see no action items