13:43:50 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:43:50 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-irc 13:43:52 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:43:52 Zakim has joined #dap 13:43:54 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:43:54 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes 13:43:55 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:43:55 Date: 03 July 2013 13:44:48 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0003.html 13:45:06 fjh has changed the topic to: DAP 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0003.html 13:45:26 Chair: Frederick_Hirsch 13:45:42 Present+ Frederick_Hirsch 13:47:18 richt has joined #dap 13:47:53 richt has joined #dap 13:49:22 richt has joined #dap 13:58:10 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:58:28 +[IPcaller] 13:58:32 zakim, [IPCaller] is me 13:58:32 +fjh; got it 13:58:57 Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements 13:59:02 dcheng3 has joined #dap 13:59:24 scribeNick: fjh 14:00:51 +??P0 14:00:53 Zakim, ??P0 is me 14:00:53 +dom; got it 14:01:44 +dcheng3 14:02:00 Present+ Diana_Cheng 14:02:06 + +1.214.919.aaaa 14:02:19 Milan_Patel has joined #dap 14:02:36 + +1.858.651.aabb 14:02:38 Present+ Milan_Patel 14:03:09 zakim, where is 214? 14:03:09 North American dialing code 1.214 is Texas 14:03:38 zakim, where is 858? 14:03:38 North American dialing code 1.858 is California 14:03:55 zakim, aabb is giri 14:03:55 +giri; got it 14:04:01 zakim, who is here? 14:04:01 On the phone I see fjh, dom, dcheng3, +1.214.919.aaaa, giri 14:04:02 On IRC I see Milan_Patel, dcheng3, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, dom, trackbot, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, mounir, anssik 14:04:13 Zakim, aaaa is Milan_Patel 14:04:15 +Milan_Patel; got it 14:04:23 zakim, who is here? 14:04:23 On the phone I see fjh, dom, dcheng3, Milan_Patel, giri 14:04:24 On IRC I see Milan_Patel, dcheng3, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, dom, trackbot, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, mounir, anssik 14:05:17 +??P8 14:05:22 zakim, ??P8 is me 14:05:22 +anssik; got it 14:05:27 gmandyam has joined #dap 14:05:27 fjh: "MediaStream Image Capture" CfC concluded with no objection to FPWD publication, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0018.html 14:05:56 planned for 9 july publication 14:06:07 s/planned/dom: planned/ 14:06:19 fjh: 31 July teleconference cancelled (chair not available) 14:06:29 Topic: Minutes approval 14:06:35 Approve minutes from 5 June 2013 14:06:41 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/att-0016/minutes-2013-06-05.html 14:06:42 (Regrets from me on July 17, 24) 14:06:48 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 5 June 2013 are approved 14:06:55 Topic: Vibration LC 14:07:03 LC (23 May - 13 June), http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-vibration-20130523/ 14:07:12 Disposition of comments, https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/43696/WD-vibration-20130523/doc/ 14:07:27 Clarification of Introduction (6 Jun) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0010.html 14:07:37 Revision of processing steps (12 Jun) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0014.html 14:07:48 (definitely) 14:08:05 +Josh_Soref 14:08:20 scribe: Josh_Soref 14:08:30 fjh: next step should be CR transition, awaiting confirmation to close LC comment 14:08:41 fjh: i'd like to go to CR ASAP 14:08:59 ... if i hear nothing within two weeks, i'll close this out 14:09:04 ... i don't think there's a rush here 14:09:11 ... testcases can go on 14:09:15 ... comments anssik ? 14:09:19 anssik: no comments/concerns 14:09:23 ... you covered the changes 14:09:39 s/this/this DoC comment/ 14:10:14 fjh: dom, do we need to do any special stuff? we've been to CR before 14:10:19 dom: we need a Transition Request 14:10:28 ... but i don't think we need a Transition Call 14:10:30 richt has joined #dap 14:10:34 action: fjh to send Vibration CR CfC and make transition request once LC disposition complete 14:10:34 Created ACTION-639 - Send Vibration CR CfC and make transition request once LC disposition complete [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-07-10]. 14:10:41 ... once there Request is drafted, i can work with you on making it clear that we don't need a call as such 14:10:48 topic: DAP Charter 14:10:50 http://www.w3.org/2011/07/DeviceAPICharter 14:10:58 fjh: i don't think it's been extended yet 14:11:00 dom: it's in process 14:11:11 ... if all goes as planned, i think we'll get the extension next week 14:11:15 topic: Network Discovery 14:11:25 Simplification proposal: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0015.html (Jean-Claude) 14:11:26 Open Source implementation: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0009.html (Jean-Claude) 14:11:27 Earlier comments and issues, status: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0028.html 14:11:47 +q 14:11:56 s/+q/q+/ 14:12:19 ack gmandyam 14:12:31 gmandyam: the two independent implementations is an unwritten rule 14:12:46 ... we had Opera under its old engine do an implementation 14:12:52 ... and we have jcd doing an implementation 14:12:58 richt_ has joined #dap 14:13:01 ... do we need a Firefox/similar implementation? 14:13:03 q+ Josh_Soref 14:13:07 fjh: i think we have two 14:13:21 dom: my recollection was that we agreed that for recommendations targeted at browsers 14:13:34 ... we wanted implementations in major shipping browsers 14:13:37 Josh_Soref: +1 14:13:40 q- Josh_Soref 14:13:47 fjh: thank you dom for remembering that 14:13:56 ... but i think we should be appreciative of jcd's work 14:14:02 topic: Proximity, Light 14:14:13 Single interface to expose both state and value: - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0008.html 14:14:26 proposal - CfC to accept Anssi's proposed resolution? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0043.html 14:14:26 fjh: i'm wondering... 14:14:39 ... should i send a CfC to accept anssik 's proposed resolution? 14:14:45 ... what are we waiting for? 14:14:52 ... anssik what do you suggest at this point? 14:15:02 anssik: i haven't talked w/ dougt about this 14:15:16 ... i noticed that Firefox 22 shipped an api for ambient light (in Lux) 14:15:19 ... on OS X 14:15:33 https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/DeviceLightEvent 14:15:38 ... it's something shipping in the desktop firefox which has significant marketshare 14:15:55 ... so that means we keep the DeviceLight interface intact 14:16:05 ... and probably merge the other interface with that one 14:16:09 fjh: it's not necessary 14:16:11 (well, if it's only on MacOS X, I'm not sure it's such a big market share) 14:16:17 ... we could keep our current design 14:16:29 anssik: if we keep our current interface, it's what's shipping in Desktop in OS X 14:16:40 ... the suggestion initially by anne was to merge Light-Level with that Interface 14:16:44 ... i think we're still on track 14:17:00 fjh: is this a matter of taste, or efficiency? 14:17:11 ... is there a reason to make a change whatsoever? 14:17:16 anssik: it's a matter of API design 14:17:22 ... developer ergonomics 14:17:30 ... and a bit of taste 14:17:33 http://anssiko.github.io/light/ 14:17:33 ... i wanted to test this out 14:17:48 ... if you have Firefox 22+ on OS X, you can try the demo 14:18:21 ... i noticed that the light level doesn't expose dim-normal-bright 14:19:03 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=842952 14:19:04 anssik: the guy who was supposed to work on merging the interfaces in terms of implementation 14:19:12 ... said he changed jobs and can't work on this 14:19:22 ... so it would take a while for mozilla to get to this 14:19:40 fjh: if we don't merge, aren't we closer to what we have now? 14:19:58 anssik: what Firefox implements is just part of the spec 14:20:04 ... there's still a migration path 14:20:08 s/aren't we/isn't Firefox/ 14:20:21 ... we could still merge the interfaces and the implementation would be compliant 14:20:36 fjh: so, i sense that making your proposed change would be premature 14:21:15 anssik: it would be good to give Mozilla a bit more time 14:21:22 ... and i'd be happy to hear developer feedback 14:21:33 ... now that the device-light-event part is available to developers 14:21:48 ... FirefoxOS might be on millions of devices 14:22:45 fjh: Another reason to give this time is I anticipate additional feedback from the PING, privacy interest group, on these specs 14:23:04 anssik: this is also shipping in Firefox OS 14:23:05 http://www.w3.org/Privacy/ 14:23:08 ... and Firefox on Android 14:23:16 ... and it was recently enabled on Firefox desktop on OS X 14:23:29 ... because you need platform adaptation, on desktops this is currently only on OS X 14:23:42 impl status: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/API/DeviceLightEvent#Gecko-specific_notes 14:24:28 fjh: also have messages from Nick and Rigo 14:24:31 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0046.html 14:24:34 s/FirefoxOS might/Firefox for OS X might/ 14:24:41 s/devices/computers/ 14:24:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0012.html 14:25:34 anssik: it sounds reasonable to wait 14:25:42 ... and collecting input from PING 14:26:02 fjh: there was a request, but we haven't seen interest to follow through 14:26:29 ... i think there's some confusion among the PING people 14:26:40 ... that this sensor could be anywhere in the world 14:26:47 ... but these sensors are usually closer to the UA 14:27:07 action: fjh to respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy concerns in Proximity, Light 14:27:07 Created ACTION-640 - Respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy concerns in Proximity, Light [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-07-10]. 14:27:22 ACTION-640: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0046.html 14:27:22 Notes added to ACTION-640 Respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy concerns in Proximity, Light. 14:27:38 ACTION-640: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0012.html 14:27:38 Notes added to ACTION-640 Respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy concerns in Proximity, Light. 14:28:27 dom: until we know what process needs to be followed to get this approved, it won't be approved 14:28:27 Topic: Test suite migration to git 14:28:36 s/Topic: Test suite migration to git// 14:28:38 Waiting for pull requests to be accepted - who is doing this? 14:28:38 i/until/Topic: Test suite migration to git/ 14:28:39 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0076.html 14:28:51 Test case submission, approval process (and licensing requirements) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0002.html 14:28:58 dom: there was a discussion of having someone from each WG having commit privs 14:29:10 ... and having someone else from the WG review each testcase before pulling 14:29:35 dom: this has been a fluctuating conversation, so it's been difficult for me 14:30:15 [ Discussion about Test Case evolution v. Recommendation evolution ] 14:31:41 fjh: i think it's good to have testcases in the repository 14:32:51 fjh: but we know where the testcases are coming from since anssik has been doing all the curating for a while 14:33:35 fjh: are the testcases in a suitable state to pull into the GIT repo? 14:33:41 anssik: i thought there was a review process 14:33:49 ... so someone other than the submitter should review the tests 14:33:51 battery is from anssik, vibration from robin, ambientlight and proximity from marcosc, 14:34:15 dom: i reviewed the battery tests from anssik a while ago 14:34:23 ... and the vibration tests from robin a while ago 14:34:34 ... i don't know that anyone has looked at ambient light/proximity 14:34:43 anssik: i initially looked at the tests when marcos submitted them 14:35:03 ACTION: Dom to do a last check on battery and vibration test cases before merging in github master 14:35:04 Created ACTION-641 - Do a last check on battery and vibration test cases before merging in github master [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-07-10]. 14:35:07 ... now that we have an implementation out, we could actually harness 14:35:17 ... iirc, marcos didn't use idlharness, but basically drafted something similar 14:36:04 ACTION: Dom to review proximity and ambient light test cases 14:36:04 Created ACTION-642 - Review proximity and ambient light test cases [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-07-10]. 14:36:36 trackbot has joined #dap 14:36:41 https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/127 14:36:46 anssik: i think you can use +1'ing on github 14:36:46 https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/126 14:36:47 https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/125 14:36:48 https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/124 14:38:49 fjh: i'm confused about tests that aren't easily visible in the repo 14:38:59 ... i thought the concern was about improving visibility 14:39:06 dom: yes, ideally the testcases would be merged 14:39:07 action: anssik to review Ambient Light and Proximity test cases by Sept 14:39:07 Created ACTION-643 - Review Ambient Light and Proximity test cases by Sept [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2013-07-10]. 14:39:13 ... i don't think there's any particular hurry 14:39:18 ... they should be merged when we exit CR 14:39:39 ... it's clear we need a plan to have them reviewed 14:40:26 Test case submission, approval process (and licensing requirements) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jul/0002.html 14:40:50 fjh: i don't know if W3C is enforcing licensing for contributions 14:41:01 dom: the licensing is only problematic for non WG contributors 14:41:08 ... which hasn't been a problem for our WG 14:41:29 topic: Implementation status 14:41:32 Request for implementation status, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0069.html 14:42:09 anssik: we're currently working to get Chrome for Android's HTML Media Capture updated 14:42:15 ... it seems we're reaching consensus 14:42:21 ... so we'll get the patches upstreamed 14:42:27 ... once that happens, i can update you on that 14:42:33 fjh: what consensus is needed? 14:42:34 https://codereview.chromium.org/14758008/ 14:43:09 anssik: there was concern from Google that it would break existing content 14:43:31 ... we reached a conclusion that we could have an implementation strategy that retains backwards compat with existing code 14:43:49 topic: Action Review 14:43:50 trackbot has joined #dap 14:43:54 ACTION-523? 14:43:54 ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN 14:43:54 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523 14:44:06 ACTION-621? 14:44:06 ACTION-621 -- Anssi Kostiainen to create test cases for HTML Media Capture -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN 14:44:06 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621 14:44:14 ACTION-637? 14:44:14 ACTION-637 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to arrange for DAP charter extension, per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0078.html -- due 2013-06-12 -- OPEN 14:44:14 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/637 14:44:22 ACTION-625? 14:44:22 ACTION-625 -- Dominique Hazaël-Massieux to move DAP tests to Git, with help from others as needed -- due 2013-05-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW 14:44:22 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/625 14:44:36 close ACTION-625 14:44:36 Closed ACTION-625 Move DAP tests to Git, with help from others as needed. 14:44:55 close ACTION-635? 14:44:55 Closed ACTION-635 Check on Media Capture TPAC F2F plans. 14:45:06 close ACTION-636 14:45:06 Closed ACTION-636 Send public list regarding consensus regarding charter extension. 14:45:13 close ACTION-638 14:45:13 Closed ACTION-638 Review webapps approach to reviewing test cases. 14:45:18 ISSUE-128? 14:45:18 ISSUE-128 -- Need more description on how bandwidth should be estimated -- open 14:45:18 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/128 14:45:28 topic: Other Business 14:45:36 anssik: i'll be on vacation during the summer 14:45:43 fjh: you were canceling July 31? 14:45:52 s/you were/i'm/ 14:45:54 s/?// 14:45:58 q+ about August? 14:46:05 queue= 14:46:09 q+ to ask about August 14:46:16 ... but i'll cancel other calls when there's isn't content for meetings 14:46:36 ack dom 14:46:36 dom, you wanted to ask about August 14:46:56 dom: i can't remember if we tend to cancel in August 14:46:59 fjh: i don't think we did 14:47:04 ... it depends on the makeup of the group 14:47:11 ... some are in the US, some aren't 14:47:16 ... some are on vacation, some aren't 14:48:01 ... i'm hoping to have an agenda for TPAC to give people time to make travel decisions 14:48:38 fjh: dom, are you away in August? 14:48:43 dom: i'll be away a couple of weeks at the end 14:48:50 fjh: anssik, you're back? 14:48:55 anssik: i'm back August 10th 14:49:45 fjh: if Cathy and Rich are available, maybe it's worth having a call to move that spec forward 14:49:58 dcheng3: i agree, it would be good to have calls to tackle the topics that have been lagging behind 14:50:10 ... i won't take many holidays in August, maybe a week 14:51:46 fjh: we won't make decisions without the right people on calls 14:51:52 ... i guess i won't make CfCs in August 14:52:12 ... thanks all 14:52:21 ... if people want to send Regrets to the Member List 14:52:29 ... that could help me 14:53:04 topic: Adjourn 14:53:10 fjh: thanks everyone for your time 14:53:14 ... see you next week, if we have a call 14:53:14 -giri 14:53:16 -dcheng3 14:53:16 -fjh 14:53:17 -anssik 14:53:18 -dom 14:53:19 -Milan_Patel 14:53:20 -Josh_Soref 14:53:20 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 14:53:20 Attendees were fjh, dom, dcheng3, +1.214.919.aaaa, +1.858.651.aabb, giri, Milan_Patel, anssik, Josh_Soref 14:53:22 trackbot, end meeting 14:53:22 Zakim, list attendees 14:53:22 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 14:53:26 fjh has left #dap 14:53:30 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 14:53:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-minutes.html trackbot 14:53:31 RRSAgent, bye 14:53:31 I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-actions.rdf : 14:53:31 ACTION: fjh to send Vibration CR CfC and make transition request once LC disposition complete [1] 14:53:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-irc#T14-10-34 14:53:31 ACTION: fjh to respond to Nick and Rigo re privacy concerns in Proximity, Light [2] 14:53:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-irc#T14-27-07 14:53:31 ACTION: Dom to do a last check on battery and vibration test cases before merging in github master [3] 14:53:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-irc#T14-35-03 14:53:31 ACTION: Dom to review proximity and ambient light test cases [4] 14:53:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-irc#T14-36-04 14:53:31 ACTION: anssik to review Ambient Light and Proximity test cases by Sept [5] 14:53:31 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/07/03-dap-irc#T14-39-07