17:00:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
17:00:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/27-tagmem-irc
17:00:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:00:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TAG
17:00:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started
17:00:06 <trackbot> Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
17:00:06 <trackbot> Date: 27 June 2013
17:00:17 <dka> Chair: Peter and Dan
17:00:20 <dka> Scribe: Yves
17:00:36 <dka> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG/Planning/2013-06-27-TC
17:01:20 <Zakim> +plinss
17:04:02 <slightlyoff> this passcode IS valid, zakim
17:04:44 <Zakim> + +1.415.997.aabb
17:04:49 <slightlyoff> finally
17:04:57 <slightlyoff> dka: it always takes like 3 times
17:05:11 <dka> xakim, aabb is slightlyoff
17:05:34 <Zakim> +Yves
17:05:56 <dka> zakim, aabb is slightlyoff
17:05:56 <Zakim> +slightlyoff; got it
17:07:55 <Zakim> +??P7
17:08:04 <Yves> waiting for other participants to join
17:08:34 <wycats_> Regrets I am on an airplane
17:09:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:09:19 <slightlyoff> I worry that we're losing momentum = (
17:10:09 <Yves> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG/Planning/2013-06-27-TC
17:10:17 <Yves> Topic: approval of minutes
17:10:22 <ht> I linked the minutes from the wiki and homepages
17:10:24 <Yves> dka: did people look at the minutes?
17:11:00 <Yves> ... could have some more link to different materials, but looks of to me
17:11:30 <dka> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/29-agenda.html
17:12:21 <slightlyoff> SGTM
17:13:11 <ht> s/looks of/looks ok/
17:13:34 <Yves> Topic: agenda planning
17:13:56 <Yves> dka: we will plan call agenda by putting then in the wiki
17:14:35 <Yves> there is a new scribe page: http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG/Planning/scribe-rota
17:14:36 <slightlyoff> looks good, thanks for putting that rotation together
17:14:59 <Yves> dka: of course, comments welcomed
17:15:40 <dka> q?
17:15:57 <Yves> Topic: moving to github
17:16:06 <Yves> plinss: looks good so far
17:16:19 <dka> https://github.com/w3ctag/promises-spec-text
17:16:25 <Yves> please remember to do readma files
17:16:29 <Yves> ^dma^dme
17:18:41 <slightlyoff> what's the URL of the blog?
17:18:55 <Yves> http://www.w3.org/blog/TAG/
17:19:35 <Yves> yves: the TAG blog is open to all TAG members, and not restricted to "the voice of the TAG" (unless we decide to)
17:20:05 <slightlyoff> and how does one get access?
17:20:08 <Yves> dka: we also have the keys of @w3ctag
17:20:50 <slightlyoff> Yves: how do I log in?
17:21:28 <slightlyoff> I don't see a login at http://www.w3.org/blog/TAG/wp-admin...is it someplace else?
17:21:45 <slightlyoff> nevermind, found it
17:21:49 <slightlyoff> https://www.w3.org/blog/TAG/wp-login.php
17:22:06 <Yves> was about to send you this URL :)
17:22:12 <slightlyoff> exciting that we have it!
17:22:57 <Yves> Topic: status of the elections
17:23:05 <Yves> dka: we have two candidates running
17:23:21 <Yves> you can look at their statements
17:23:44 <Yves> election open until july 16
17:24:07 <Yves> marcos: should we encourage them to post an extended statement?
17:24:25 <Yves> dka: see https://www.w3.org/2013/06/17-tag-nominations.html
17:24:31 <dka> http://chaals.ya.ru/replies.xml?item_no=9
17:24:50 <dka> http://twirl-team.ya.ru/replies.xml?item_no=1036
17:29:06 <Yves> plinss: we are working to get the TAG home page redesigned with some help
17:29:47 <slightlyoff> e.g.: http://vimeo.com/67567648
17:30:23 <Yves> plinss: we need it to be modern enough, but the main goal is to know what we want there.
17:31:04 <Yves> plinss: there is the style design and information design, we need to work on both
17:33:29 <slightlyoff> plinss: that sounds good to me, outlining the IA first
17:34:05 <slightlyoff> don't care?
17:36:08 <Yves> Topic: extensible web manifesto
17:36:37 <Yves> dka: how it impacts what we do?
17:37:01 <Yves> slightlyoff: it is in the same line with what we did in London
17:37:28 <Yves> how we are reorganize so that we can track specs to organize reviews
17:37:33 <Yves> for APIs
17:37:50 <ht> q+ to argue for a non-exclusive view of our scope
17:38:19 <Yves> dka: we have actions to reach out to different groups
17:39:37 <Yves> yves: for WebApps, see http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/PubStatus#API_Specifications to get the list and status of publications
17:40:35 <Yves> slightlyoff: is there a way to better coordinate spec review?
17:40:51 <Yves> dka: we can use the irc channel as way to keep in touch
17:40:59 <ht> -1 to IRC -- I'm off- and on-line too often
17:41:59 <slightlyoff> SGTM++
17:42:01 <Yves> marcos: would like to use this as issues in github
17:42:12 <slightlyoff> ht: are you using irccloud? it's ace
17:43:13 <Yves> slightlyoff: we need to have a better view of all the groups that are working on APIs
17:43:29 <marcosc> http://www.w3.org/TR/
17:44:02 <ht> q- ht
17:44:46 <slightlyoff> marcosc: right, but I don't know how to share or link to any of the views of that
17:44:50 <Yves> marcos: the TR page have a list of all specs, nto perfect but at least you have the whole list
17:45:08 <marcosc> slightlyoff: off, yeah... I know... I was trying to find that too :(
17:45:22 <ht> q+ to argue for a non-exclusive view of our scope
17:45:44 <Yves> dka: we don't need to look at everything done at W3C
17:45:48 <ht> zakim, unmute me
17:45:48 <Zakim> ht should no longer be muted
17:45:53 <ht> ack ht
17:45:53 <Zakim> ht, you wanted to argue for a non-exclusive view of our scope
17:45:57 <dka> q?
17:46:04 <slightlyoff> dka: FWIW, I didn't ask the TAG to spend any time on workshops
17:49:55 <slightlyoff> one last time; I don't htink this is a TAG item, I didn't bring it up, and I'd like to put it down = )
17:51:17 <slightlyoff> action item: dka and slightlyoff to eat, near each other, soon
17:51:17 <trackbot> Error finding 'item'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/users>.
17:53:12 <dka> Yves: referencing Robin's email - is there a way to have a better way to state that specs for example are partially stable and partially experimental...
17:54:10 <dka> Dan: should we make a recommendation?
17:54:35 <dka> Yves: I was thinking - do people in the Tag have opinions / experience in this area and if so should we make a recommendation back?
17:55:13 <dka> Marcos: This is only a big deal on the w3c side. My recommendation is to keep the current model and allow specs to proceed down recommendation track so long as referenced specs remain stable...
17:55:20 <ht> q+ to point to the QA document about this
17:55:32 <dka> Marcos: could allow sections to be marked for stability.
17:55:53 <dka> Yves: the way you can make assessments of stability of parts of the specifications could be done by marking it in some way...
17:56:01 <dka> ack ht
17:56:01 <Zakim> ht, you wanted to point to the QA document about this
17:56:31 <dka> Henry: The problem is that there's so much inertia in this space. What was just suggested required a change to the process. W3C process is extremely resistant to change.
17:56:52 <dka> … it was absorb  lots of TAG energy to get the AB to take this up.
17:57:07 <dka> … not convinced that the situation we're in is broken enough to warrant taking that effort on.
17:57:30 <dka> … reluctant to take this on.
17:58:37 <dka> [discussion of the director overriding process]
17:59:15 <dka> Marcos: It's kind of broken but if someone wants to move a spec forward it will move forward...
17:59:41 <dka> Yves: one way to work around the issue is to spliit a spec into small chunks which are linked - and this is a mess for implementers.
17:59:53 <dka> … modularity might be a better way to work around that.
17:59:55 <ht> This doc: http://www.w3.org/TR/qaframe-spec/#reference has a lot of good analysis/recommendations
18:00:54 <ht> We had an action to try to come up with a better story, which stalled two years ago: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/303
18:01:12 <slightlyoff> I don't have an opinon
18:03:24 <slightlyoff> +1
18:03:28 <dka> Topic: AWWW 2nd Edition
18:03:41 <Yves> ACTION: dka to send an email to the AB telling them that we are ready to give input on modularization and references if they work on that topic
18:03:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-820 - Send an email to the AB telling them that we are ready to give input on modularization and references if they work on that topic [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2013-07-04].
18:04:18 <dka> https://github.com/w3ctag/webarch
18:04:33 <Yves> ht: worked on a new version of webarch using github
18:05:03 <ht> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2013Jun/0023.html
18:05:04 <Yves> worked on a draft new abstract
18:05:11 <marcosc> +q
18:05:51 <Yves> ht: there was a bipolar reaction to it, enthusiasm and anger/hate (scribe paraphrasing a bit)
18:06:49 <Yves> the document was not served by some terminology inherited from rfc2616
18:07:27 <ht> s/the document/the original AWWW document/
18:08:03 <slightlyoff> marcosc: is the source for this checked into this repo?
18:08:06 <Yves> ht: at the f2f, we decided we _might_ take it on
18:08:11 <slightlyoff> marcosc: or is index.html the source?
18:08:23 <marcosc> slightlyoff: index is the source
18:08:25 <ht> s/the original/TBL and I and some other people think the original/
18:08:32 <slightlyoff> marcosc: thanks
18:08:55 <Yves> ht: we put it on github so that people can edit it and do pull requests on it
18:09:11 <slightlyoff> ht: that sounds good
18:10:18 <ht> I agree with Marcos that with hindsight it was a mistake to ask for feedback so soon
18:11:18 <Yves> marcos: "editing the bible" scares people, we need other ways to make progress
18:11:33 <slightlyoff> to clarify, they only START private
18:11:42 <slightlyoff> and go public once things are "more solid"
18:11:56 <Yves> discussion about private repos and StO
18:11:56 <slightlyoff> but this is a much different product -- people think they already understand it
18:13:08 <slightlyoff> speaking of social pressure....what's next for API review? bugs in the repo marcos sets up?
18:14:43 <marcosc> https://github.com/w3ctag/extending-html-responsibly/blob/master/RICG-recs/ricg.md
18:15:00 <slightlyoff> that's a good point...wycats_ and I need to do that this week
18:15:08 <dka> Topic: RICG recommendation
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18:15:41 <slightlyoff> I agree with these
18:15:46 <slightlyoff> +1
18:15:59 <slightlyoff> nice work, marcosc
18:16:52 <Yves> ht: speaking from somebody outside the community, it would be helpful to include definitions, or examples (eg: for polyfills)
18:17:49 <Yves> marcos: there are also prollyfills
18:18:14 <slightlyoff> wycats_: are you there?
18:18:14 <dka> Topic: TC39 invitation to TPAC (muffins)
18:19:23 <dka> PROPOSED RESOLVED: Marcos to send https://github.com/w3ctag/extending-html-responsibly/blob/master/RICG-recs/ricg.md to RICG as feedback.
18:19:48 <ht> +1
18:19:59 <dka> RESOLUTION: Marcos to send https://github.com/w3ctag/extending-html-responsibly/blob/master/RICG-recs/ricg.md to RICG as feedback.
18:20:50 <Yves> dka: there is no pb to have TC39 members invited at TPAC
18:22:50 <slightlyoff> I don't know either, but i feel like we should handle this urgently
18:22:53 <Zakim> +plinss.a
18:22:58 <ht> q+ to suggest we should ask TC39!
18:23:14 <slightlyoff> ht: it's easy...es-discuss is open
18:23:22 <dka> q?
18:23:24 <dka> ack ht
18:23:24 <Zakim> ht, you wanted to suggest we should ask TC39!
18:23:58 <Yves> ht: we should ask TC39
18:24:54 <Yves> slightlyoff: I don't know what to do, asking TC39 is good but giving then too many choices might be an issue
18:25:21 <slightlyoff> ht: I like that a lot
18:25:45 <slightlyoff> ht: that's good framing
18:25:46 <dka> Option 1: A hosted meeting at TPAC either Monday-Tusday or Thursday-Friday if TPAC with understanding that others can join as guests and you can join others as guests...
18:25:50 <Yves> ht: difference is being like a regular WG or less constrained like the TAG
18:25:54 <slightlyoff> can we iterate on this quickly on the mailing list?
18:25:57 <dka> Option: 2: a less constrained invitation as guests of the TAG?
18:26:06 <slightlyoff> I'd like to make suer wycats_ has input
18:26:28 <slightlyoff> dka: yes, I think so
18:27:00 <slightlyoff> there's also an internal TC39 reflector that I can post to
18:27:10 <slightlyoff> but I think public-script-coord is a good way to start
18:27:39 <slightlyoff> yes, I can
18:27:56 <Yves> ACTION: dka to talk to Jeff about TC39 to TPAC
18:27:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-821 - Talk to Jeff about TC39 to TPAC [on Daniel Appelquist - due 2013-07-04].
18:28:18 <Yves> ACTION: slightlyoff to send email to public-script-coord about TC39 and TPAC
18:28:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-822 - Send email to public-script-coord about TC39 and TPAC [on Alex Russell - due 2013-07-04].
18:28:55 <Yves> dka: don't hesitate to bring the chairs feedback if we miss something
18:29:23 <Yves> next call will be in two weeks: july 11th
18:29:33 <Yves> ADJOURNED
18:29:40 <Zakim> -marcos
18:29:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/27-tagmem-minutes.html Yves
18:29:41 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were +44.771.520.aaaa, dka, plinss, +1.415.997.aabb, Yves, slightlyoff, ht, [IPcaller], marcos
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