13:54:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:54:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/20-tt-irc
13:54:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:54:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
13:55:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
13:55:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:55:02 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:55:02 <trackbot> Date: 20 June 2013
13:55:16 <Sean> chair: Sean
13:56:33 <plh> plh has joined #tt
13:58:11 <Sean> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2013Jun/0110.html
13:59:17 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
13:59:40 <Zakim> + +44.154.558.aaaa
13:59:58 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #tt
14:00:04 <Sean> zakim, aaa is me
14:00:04 <Zakim> sorry, Sean, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
14:00:14 <Sean> zakim, aaaa is me
14:00:14 <Zakim> +Sean; got it
14:02:35 <mike> mike has joined #tt
14:02:46 <Zakim> +Plh
14:02:57 <mijordan> mijordan has joined #tt
14:03:07 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:03:34 <Zakim> + +1.858.882.aabb
14:03:59 <andreas> andreas has joined #tt
14:04:08 <Zakim> +[Adobe]
14:04:25 <plh> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/Publications
14:04:50 <Zakim> + +49.893.aacc
14:05:24 <mijordan> Zakim, Adobe is mijordan
14:05:24 <Zakim> +mijordan; got it
14:05:26 <tmichel> 8894# ('TTWG'#) passcode is not valid says Zakim ...
14:05:27 <Zakim> +pal
14:05:51 <Sean> Theirry it is TTML
14:06:04 <mike> zakim, aabb is mike
14:06:04 <Zakim> +mike; got it
14:06:16 <tmichel> Ok then it should be change on the TTWG page https://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/Group/
14:06:37 <Sean> Yes, we are discussing how to upadate the web page
14:06:58 <Sean> zakim, passcode
14:06:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'passcode', Sean
14:07:01 <Zakim> +??P14
14:07:35 <plh> TT/Greoup is deprecated
14:07:37 <Sean> zakim, who is on the phone
14:07:38 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', Sean
14:08:06 <Sean> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:08:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sean, Plh, mike, mijordan, +49.893.aacc, pal, ??P14
14:08:13 <tmichel> zakim, who is here ?
14:08:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sean, Plh, mike, mijordan, +49.893.aacc, pal, ??P14
14:08:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see andreas, pal, mijordan, mike, tmichel, plh, Zakim, RRSAgent, Sean, trackbot
14:08:42 <Sean> zakim, aacc is Andreas
14:08:42 <Zakim> +Andreas; got it
14:09:27 <Sean> zakim, choose a victim
14:09:27 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Plh
14:09:40 <plh> scribe: plh
14:09:47 <plh> Topic: Update from the AC
14:10:53 <plh> plh: we had a good discussion but it looked to me that we should stay on track
14:11:25 <plh> pal: there was a question from timbl asking for a high level view of the workflow for timed text to be shown in a browser
14:11:35 <plh> ... might be good for us to do as well
14:11:42 <plh> ... it's on my TODO list to put something together
14:11:50 <plh> ... starting in Web&TV IG
14:12:06 <plh> sean: worth coordinating with the IG
14:12:12 <plh> pal: will depend on the energy
14:12:48 <plh> ... the web is the last link in a very long chain
14:12:59 <plh> sean: would be good to get everybody position down
14:13:08 <plh> ... depending where you're in the chain, the view is different
14:13:26 <plh> pal: yes, the complexity of the chain is itneresting indeed
14:13:34 <plh> sean: ok, we'll look for it
14:13:56 <plh> Topic: Modification in team contact
14:14:36 <plh> Sean: welcoming Thierry back in the group
14:15:08 <plh> plh: I'll stay around but Thierry will be more reliable
14:15:37 <plh> Topic: New work methods. Work Packages and transition to Bugzilla
14:16:08 <plh> Sean: thinking to use bugzilla from now on. tracker is good a tracking action and issues, but not good for tracking bugs
14:16:58 <plh> plh: will break your flow of communication between mailing list and bugzilla
14:17:22 <plh> sean: work will also continue in the wiki. but don't think we'll have discussion in the database
14:17:32 <plh> ... might become too painful
14:17:51 <plh> ... so would like to keep using the mailing list for discussion on bugs
14:18:02 <plh> ... any objection?
14:18:07 <plh> [none heard]
14:18:27 <plh> Resolved: the TT Group will start using bugzilla
14:18:59 <plh> Sean: in the first of July, we'll make a big push for TTML 1.1
14:19:05 <plh> s/first/first week/
14:19:35 <plh> Sean: we'll need to accelerate the activity rate
14:19:53 <plh> Topic: Issue 252
14:19:58 <plh> issue-252?
14:19:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-252 -- Prose defining mutual exclusive uses of <metadata> should use must keyword. -- pending review
14:19:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/252
14:20:50 <plh> sean: my reading was that you can use metadata on the same element, but Glenn read it differently
14:22:04 <plh> pal: let's give more considerations in 1.1
14:22:15 <plh> Resolved: issue 252 is delayed until TTML 1.1
14:22:26 <plh> Topic: Issue 157
14:22:28 <plh> issue-157?
14:22:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-157 -- transformation profile -- pending review
14:22:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/157
14:22:47 <plh> sean: didn't make it what a transformation profile does
14:22:58 <plh> ... Glenn made a clarification
14:23:03 <plh> ... any objection to close this issue?
14:23:17 <plh> Resolved: Issue 157 is closed
14:23:20 <plh> close issue-157
14:23:27 <plh> trackbot, close issue-157
14:23:28 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-157 transformation profile.
14:23:28 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-157 transformation profile.
14:23:39 <plh> Topic: Issue 163
14:23:41 <plh> issue-163?
14:23:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-163 -- Clarify use of cell units in certain properties -- pending review
14:23:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/163
14:24:11 <plh> close action-147
14:24:11 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-147 Create definitions for presentation and transformation in Section 2.2 to handle Issue-157..
14:24:35 <plh> Sean: again, Glenn did the edits. objection to close this issue?
14:24:42 <plh> pal: this seems a substantive change
14:25:21 <plh> Sean: the proposal is to clarify what the use of cell units
14:25:28 <plh> pal: oh, thought it was different
14:25:32 <plh> ... never mind
14:25:37 <pal> s/pal/mike/
14:25:41 <plh> Sean: no, we're not forbidding it
14:25:45 <pal> s/pal/?
14:25:55 <plh> [no objection to close issue]
14:26:02 <plh> trackbot, close issue-163
14:26:02 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-163 Clarify use of cell units in certain properties.
14:26:11 <plh> close action-84
14:26:11 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-84 Create clarifying text for 2nd edition for cell units.
14:26:18 <plh> Topic: Issue 163
14:26:21 <plh> issue-163?
14:26:21 <trackbot> ISSUE-163 -- Clarify use of cell units in certain properties -- closed
14:26:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/163
14:26:28 <plh> oops
14:26:32 <tmichel> I must leave for about 15 minutes, and I will be back.
14:26:56 <plh> pal: would be nice to put a link to the document
14:27:17 <plh> sean: agreed
14:27:27 <Zakim> -Plh
14:27:36 <Zakim> +Plh
14:29:10 <plh> sean: we need the link from the issue and from the mercurial comment
14:29:30 <plh> Topic: Issue 166
14:29:34 <plh> issue-166?
14:29:34 <trackbot> ISSUE-166 -- authoritative schemaLocation for authoritative schemas like TTML -- pending review
14:29:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/166
14:29:39 <plh> Sean: again, any objection?
14:30:01 <plh> mike: that's fine
14:30:52 <plh> trackbot, close issue-166
14:30:53 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-166 authoritative schemaLocation for authoritative schemas like TTML.
14:31:19 <plh> Topic: Issue 171
14:31:21 <plh> issue-171?
14:31:21 <trackbot> ISSUE-171 -- need to clarify meaning of "prune" in 9.3.2 -- pending review
14:31:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/171
14:33:55 <plh> close issue-171
14:33:55 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-171 need to clarify meaning of "prune" in 9.3.2.
14:34:06 <plh> Topic: Issue 172
14:34:08 <plh> issue-172?
14:34:08 <trackbot> ISSUE-172 -- REGION-OF(E) pseudo-code doesn't match prose -- pending review
14:34:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/172
14:35:09 <plh> trackbot, issue-172
14:35:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-172 -- REGION-OF(E) pseudo-code doesn't match prose -- pending review
14:35:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/172
14:35:15 <plh> trackbot, close issue-172
14:35:15 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-172 REGION-OF(E) pseudo-code doesn't match prose.
14:35:25 <plh> Topic: Issue 173
14:35:29 <plh> issue-173?
14:35:29 <trackbot> ISSUE-173 -- presentation semantics of control characters and other unmapped characters -- pending review
14:35:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/173
14:36:03 <plh> Sean: it tuns out XSL-FO does tell you what to do
14:36:25 <plh> ... so there is a clear mapping
14:36:50 <plh> mike: doesn't seem intuitive..
14:37:28 <plh> ... what's the bahvior for cariage return and line feeds in the content?
14:37:37 <plh> sean: yes, trimming, etc is addressed
14:38:03 <plh> mike: do we point to the proper section in XSL FO since it wasn't obvious?
14:38:09 <plh> ... would help to have it in the doc
14:38:36 <plh> sean: happy to leave it is open
14:39:22 <plh> ... since we need a clarifying note in the doc
14:39:36 <plh> Topic: Issue 180
14:39:42 <plh> issue-180?
14:39:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-180 -- regions relative to the root container -- pending review
14:39:42 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/180
14:40:06 <plh> Sean: fixed by new text in 8.2.7: where, if either width or height is negative or zero, then extent must be considered zero in both inline and block progression dimensions
14:40:44 <plh> issue-180: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#style-attribute-extent
14:40:44 <trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-180 regions relative to the root container.
14:41:07 <plh> mike: what about the language quoted in the issue?
14:41:19 <plh> ... it's ambiguous
14:41:39 <plh> sean: I opened a different issue for that
14:41:55 <plh> ... we would be changing the meaning for auto
14:42:32 <plh> ... I asked Glenn to be more explicit in the mapping
14:42:57 <plh> mike: the text has carfted today doesn't clarify this issue
14:43:05 <plh> ... and when should we fix it?
14:44:18 <plh> ... let's leave the issue for now until we clarify this
14:44:41 <plh> Topic: Issue 184
14:44:45 <plh> issue-184?
14:44:45 <trackbot> ISSUE-184 -- set animation is not taken is not account in the computed style set -- pending review
14:44:45 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/184
14:45:05 <plh> Sean: wasn't clear when the set animation happens
14:45:14 <plh> ... fixed by new [animation styling] step 5 in 8.4.4.2 specified style set processing
14:45:36 <plh> issue-184: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#semantics-style-resolution-processing-sss
14:45:36 <trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-184 set animation is not taken is not account in the computed style set.
14:45:53 <plh> close issue-184
14:45:53 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-184 set animation is not taken is not account in the computed style set.
14:46:06 <plh> Topic: Issue 189
14:46:12 <plh> issue-189?
14:46:12 <trackbot> ISSUE-189 -- do regions scroll their flowed content? -- pending review
14:46:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/189
14:46:30 <plh> sean: removed: there is no longer an "overflow: scroll"; see also note at end of 9.3.2
14:46:47 <plh> issue-189: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#semantics-region-layout-step-1
14:46:47 <trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-189 do regions scroll their flowed content?.
14:46:57 <plh> [[
14:46:58 <plh> Where an implementation is able to detect significant similarity between two adjacent synchronic Document Instances, DOCinterN DOCinterN−1, then it is preferred that the implementation make the transition between presenting the two instances as smooth as possible, e.g., as described by [CEA-608-C], § C.3.
14:46:59 <plh> ]]
14:47:46 <plh> q+
14:48:51 <plh> plh: does it make 608 a normative ref?
14:49:02 <plh> sean: ope
14:49:09 <plh> s/op/nope/
14:49:21 <plh> close issue-189
14:49:21 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-189 do regions scroll their flowed content?.
14:49:32 <plh> Topic: Issue 197
14:49:36 <plh> issue-197?
14:49:36 <trackbot> ISSUE-197 -- charset/encoding unconstrained -- pending review
14:49:36 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/197
14:50:10 <plh> issue-197: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#concrete-encoding
14:50:10 <trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-197 charset/encoding unconstrained.
14:50:17 <plh> [[
14:50:18 <plh> In the absence of other requirements, it is recommended that a Document Instance be concretely encoded as a well-formed XML 1.0 [XML 1.0] document using the UTF-8 character encoding.
14:50:19 <plh> ]]
14:50:40 <plh> sean: anything else would be a breaking change
14:50:48 <plh> ... we'll come back on this in TTML 1.1
14:51:01 <plh> close issue-197
14:51:01 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-197 charset/encoding unconstrained.
14:51:45 <plh> mike: ok with a should
14:52:09 <plh> mike: should we leave the issue open or close for 1.1?
14:52:09 <tmichel> I am back ...
14:52:18 <plh> sean: rather have a new issue 1.1
14:52:28 <plh> mike: ok, Id like to consider a stronger language in 1.1
14:53:00 <plh> sean: sure
14:53:11 <plh> ... please open a new issue for 1.1
14:53:19 <plh> mike: ok
14:53:54 <plh> Resolved: we need a stronger resolution in exchange formats in 1.1
14:54:08 <plh> ACTION: Mike to open issue for 1.1 regarding encodings
14:54:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-166 - Open issue for 1.1 regarding encodings [on Mike Dolan - due 2013-06-27].
14:54:24 <plh> Topic: Issue 199
14:54:28 <plh> issue-199?
14:54:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-199 -- timeExpression to video frame calculation is unclear in some cases -- pending review
14:54:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/199
14:54:46 <plh> issue-199: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/tip/ttml10/spec/ttaf1-dfxp.html#time-expression-semantics
14:54:46 <trackbot> Notes added to ISSUE-199 timeExpression to video frame calculation is unclear in some cases.
14:55:09 <plh> sean: addr4essed by appendix N
14:55:20 <plh> mike: didn't look at it lately and was happy with it
14:55:29 <plh> sean: I'm pretty sure he didn't change it lately
14:55:40 <plh> close issue-199
14:55:40 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-199 timeExpression to video frame calculation is unclear in some cases.
14:55:53 <plh> Topic: AOB
14:56:10 <pal_> pal_ has joined #tt
14:57:06 <plh> Sean: glenn suggested to do a new snapshot for the 2nd edition
14:57:16 <plh> ,, including resoltuion for 210 and 217
14:57:55 <plh> s/,,/../
14:58:07 <plh> ... any objection?
14:58:14 <plh> [none heard]
15:00:40 <plh> [adjourned]
15:00:46 <Zakim> -pal
15:00:46 <Zakim> -Andreas
15:00:47 <Zakim> -Plh
15:00:48 <Zakim> -mike
15:00:48 <Zakim> -mijordan
15:01:02 <Zakim> -??P14
15:01:02 <Zakim> -Sean
15:01:03 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
15:01:03 <Zakim> Attendees were +44.154.558.aaaa, Sean, Plh, +1.858.882.aabb, +49.893.aacc, mijordan, pal, mike, Andreas
15:01:06 <plh> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:01:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/20-tt-minutes.html plh
17:01:09 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tt