W3C

07 Jun 2013

Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference

Summary

EasyChecks

Spent some time discussing comments submitted by Jim Allen, and comments received from a posting on the WebAIM list. The use of light text on light backgrounds is a common design problem. Because of this, the group agreed that adding an image of light gray text on a white background would be a helpful addition for sighted users of EasyChecks.

The discussion of forms included thoughts on which form elements are useful for "newbies" to look at, plus implicit versus explicit labeling, and the ability to click on a label to select its associated element. There was general agreement that unless you dig into the code, most tests that would be considered "easy" do not provide conclusive evidence of whether a form element is actually accessible or not.

We reviewed the steps it takes to "linearize" a page. The group agreed that this is an important test, but might be considered more of an "intermediate check." Wayne pointed out that the term "Plain Text View" is not accurate. Plain text is literally "just text," which is not the same thing as a web page that has had styling and images removed. BAD provides a very good (and funny) example of page linearization.

Nearly every browser uses tabs now, but they don't all display page titles the same way. Given this variation, should EasyChecks include an illustration of how and where page titles are displayed, or would it make more sense to provide more generalized instructions?

UAAG Review

Paul and Howard agreed to review the UAAG documents for understandability, readability, and usability.

Agenda

  1. Easy Checks - discuss new comments in Easy Checks wiki page, particularly things marked "EOWG"
  2. Plan UAAG review (UAAG e-mail, UAAG wiki page) and ATAG review (ATAG wiki page).
  3. Prepare for Tutorials discussion next week.

Attendees

Present
AnnaBelle, Shawn, Bim, paulschantz, Howard, Wayne_Dick, Sylvie_Duchateau
Regrets
Sharron, Vicki, Andrew, Suzette, Shadi, Andrew
Chair
Shawn
Scribe
paulschantz

Contents


EasyChecks - Jim's comments

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#Jim_Allan_6_June

Shawn: EasyChecks was announced and comments were received from a posting on the WebAIM list.

<Howard> done

<Wayne> done

<Shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary#contrast

Shawn: Should we add grey text on white, and change image order from low contrast to high contrast?

Paul: I think it makes sense to show what isn't good first, followed by what is good

Wayne: I like the grey on grey example

<Shawn> RESOLUTION: Let's add an image of light gray text on a white background - after first sentence (so paragraph gets split)

<AnnaBelle> I like the gray on gray example too, it's very common in footers.

Shawn: Jim's comments seemed to skim the zooming section.

<Wayne> No change

<Bim> No objection

No change

<AnnaBelle> No change

<Howard> No change

<Sylvie> No change

<shawn> "Check that the focus indicator is clearly visible as you tab through the elements, that is, you can tell which element has focus, for example, links have a gray outline around them or are highlighted."

<Wayne> +1

<shawn> Shawn: also added BAD. good enough? Should we add an illustration?

I agree that we should add an illustration

<Howard> I think a picture would add clarification.

<shawn> illustreations: http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#Illustrations

Shawn: Illustrations were previously agreed to be used to demonstrate concepts

AnnaBelle: Maybe we should have a list of places where we should use illustrations?

Shawn: Let's review the May 24 minutes for clarification.

AnnaBelle: There's still a question about how illustrations should be done. They are very powerful and can be very effective when used appropriately.

Shawn: Do you want to lead this...?

AnnaBelle: the group is exquisitely careful about wording :-) For example, I find the captions of illustrations extremely helpful. I will head up that effort

Shawn: Howard suggested using these Checks sections opened by default so that they are not missed (Jim appeared to skip over them). Does it make sense to have all four headings open by default? We want EasyChecks to be useful and understandable, something that people come back to frequently for reference.

<shawn> added: To see visual focus with BAD http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary#visualfocusBAD

EasyChecks forms

Shawn: clicking labels to verify they are properly marked up is not a reliable test

<Sylvie> ok

Shawn: does anyone have data on whether this is an effective test or not?

AnnaBelle: Andrew and Sharron have consistently had a lot to say about this

Shawn: we should be looking at this from the perspective of a novice. Do we want to add a section just to give an idea about the things that are NOT covered in an EasyCheck?

Bim: forms are extremely important to all users; there's no reliable easy way to test them. We should have something in here about what are required fields.

<shawn> Paul: forms are a bugaboo for me. It seems like you have to be sniper to click on radio buttons.

Wayne: if we have a forms section we need to scope it.

Shawn: listing what we're leaving out would probably make most of us feel a lot better that things are not forgotten

AnnaBelle: search and login are good examples of forms for newbies (because they're generally simple but are still forms)

Howard: reviewing error messages is probably going too far to be considered an Easy Check

Shawn: are you willing to check labels and error messages, Howard?

Howard: sure

<Sylvie> Concerning labels,I asked my colleague, and he asks in which case clicking on the label did not work for you Shawn?

<Sylvie> he says it often does not work when the label is an image but it always work when the label is text.

Shawn: would anyone be willing to find forms with implicit labels (or make one) and see what happens when testing?

Wayne: what do you mean by an implicit label?

<shawn> for example of implicit labels: <http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/H90>

<shawn> for example of implicit labels: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/H90

Shawn: implicit labeling means you wrap your form element with <label></label> tags. "Label for" is explicit

Howard: likes prose version because it has a nice introduction and is laid out nicely visually. Bullet point version jumps into technical stuff too quickly and is jarring

<Sylvie> I prefered the bullet version

Shawn: AnnaBelle, can you and I follow up on the prose versus bullet point versions?

AnnaBelle: ok

EasyChecks Plain Text View

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#Linearize_Page_.28Optional.29 thanks to Sharron

Shawn: thanks Sharron for the write-up on linearizing page

Howard: this may be getting too complex for an EasyCheck

Wayne: I agree. This is a great intermediate check

Howard: does not appear to be tied to any particular check, and is perhaps a bit too broad

<Wayne> Not easy

Bim: doesn't fit under any one of our headings

Sylvie: maybe it should be optional, but included

Wayne: if page is nicely designed, it should be easy to read when linearized. If it is poorly designed, it won't be

<shawn> Paul: 2 elements: 1. steps to do the test, 2. what the test actually does.

<shawn> ... context of reviewer

Shawn: BAD demo has hilarious example of linearization (content is out of order)

Very "eye of the beholder"

<Howard> "not so easy checks"

Wayne: will check with Tom today to see if we can make checking linearization easier...this is kind of a "user experience" check

Next Steps Section

EasyChecks Next Steps Section

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/preliminary#next

Shawn: wanted to check if any comments?

AnnaBelle: I like them

EasyChecks To-Do Items

<shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Easy_Checks#To_Do

<Sylvie> I searched on Google, but I could not find anything.

Shawn: Thank you Sylvie for your help on this

there are add-ons for IE9 that allow adding the title bar

<Sylvie> It does not work in IE9. Only with the mouse, we did not find with the keyboard.

Shawn: different language versions of IE9 seem to display titles differently

<Howard> I don't see it in IE 9

<Howard> It's in the tab, but no title bar

<Howard> I have Win 7

All: general discussion of variation of page title display across OSes and browsers

Action for everybody PLEASE look through the open questions (@@ or Sylvie's nice list of open questions)

<trackbot> Error finding 'for'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/track/users>.

<Wayne> On Windows 7 Ie10 has titles, on windows 8 no titles

UAAG Review

Shawn: EO can make significant improvements to understandability, readability, and usability of this document

<Howard> my phone ran out of charge, I'll return on another phone

Shawn: comments due by June 21

Wayne: we can improve this

Shawn: they want to go to last call, we can help them

<Sylvie> I already volunteered but did not find time, but I will try.

<Bim> I'd be happy to

<Howard> 303.449.aaaa is Howard

Shawn: spacing and readability of the document can likely be improved

Wayne: guidelines can be improved (I sat on that committee for a while)

<Howard> sure

sure

<shawn> e-mail with links: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-eo/2013AprJun/0065.html

<Howard> I should be okay with next week

<Wayne> Bye

<Howard> Bye all

<Sylvie> Bye

<shawn> trackbot, end meeting

Summary of Action Items

[End of minutes]

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$Date: 2013-06-25 15:36:05 $