13:21:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:21:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-dap-irc
13:21:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:21:29 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:21:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:21:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 39 minutes
13:21:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:21:32 <trackbot> Date: 05 June 2013
13:21:56 <fjh> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0008.html
13:22:09 <fjh> fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279  ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0008.html
13:22:27 <fjh> Chair: Frederick_Hirsch
13:22:44 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch
13:57:39 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:57:42 <fjh> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
13:57:42 <Zakim> sorry, fjh, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
13:57:46 <Zakim> +Vivienne
13:57:53 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
13:57:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see Vivienne
13:57:54 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, fjh, dom, tobie, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir
13:57:59 <fjh> zakim, Vivienne is me
13:58:00 <Zakim> +fjh; got it
14:00:24 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
14:00:50 <Josh_Soref> scribe: Josh_Soref
14:00:53 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute me
14:00:53 <Zakim> Josh_Soref should now be muted
14:01:42 <Zakim> +gmandyam
14:02:06 <Zakim> +??P5
14:02:08 <dom> Zakim, ??P5 is me
14:02:08 <Zakim> +dom; got it
14:02:12 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #dap
14:02:27 <fjh> Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements
14:02:37 <fjh> Please review Media Capture and Streams by 15 June, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0080.html
14:03:27 <dom> -> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?product=WebRTC%20Working%20Group&component=Media%20Capture%20and%20Streams&resolution=---&list_id=13529 Bugzilla list of bugs for Media Capture (with link to "submit new bug")
14:03:41 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:03:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Josh_Soref (muted), gmandyam, dom
14:03:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see gmandyam, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, dom, tobie, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir
14:03:57 <Josh_Soref> fjh: thanks Josh_Soref for sending out the minutes yesterday
14:04:03 <Josh_Soref> ... is there any concern about approving them?
14:04:05 <Zakim> +??P6
14:04:10 <Josh_Soref> i/thanks/Topic: Minutes approval/
14:04:13 <fjh> Approve minutes from 29 May 2013
14:04:14 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/att-0007/minutes-2013-05-29.html
14:04:14 <Josh_Soref> ... we talked a lot about testing
14:04:19 <anssik> anssik has joined #dap
14:04:37 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: Minutes from 29 May 2013 are approved
14:04:45 <Josh_Soref> topic: Charter Extension
14:04:47 <fjh> zakim, ??P6 is anssik
14:04:47 <Zakim> +anssik; got it
14:04:47 <anssik> Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen
14:04:57 <fjh> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0078.html
14:04:57 <fjh> No comments received, extend charter through 31 December 2014?
14:05:18 <Josh_Soref> dom: i'll take the action
14:05:25 <Josh_Soref> ... i need to get internal feedback on this activity
14:05:31 <Josh_Soref> ... i can do this as part of my action item
14:05:38 <fjh> action: dom to arrange for DAP charter extension, per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0078.html
14:05:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-637 - Arrange for DAP charter extension, per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0078.html [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-06-12].
14:05:51 <Josh_Soref> topic: Vibration
14:05:54 <fjh> LC period ends 13 June.
14:05:54 <fjh> Updated to mention web notifications, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0073.html (Anssi)
14:05:54 <fjh> minor editorial suggestion, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0006.html
14:06:16 <Josh_Soref> fjh: anything else to discuss on this?
14:06:32 <fjh> anssik, are you able to update draft based on my comment?
14:06:40 <anssik> yes
14:06:48 <Josh_Soref> topic: Proximity, Light
14:06:55 <Josh_Soref> fjh: we said we'd wait until the end of May
14:07:00 <Josh_Soref> ... we had no list discussion
14:07:13 <Josh_Soref> ... we could wait a little longer, but i don't want to wait until the end of July
14:07:53 <Josh_Soref> ... i propose we wait another week, and i'll send a message after that
14:07:55 <Josh_Soref> topic: Network Service Discovery
14:08:02 <fjh> prefix issue , http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0054.html (Jean-Claude)
14:08:02 <fjh> status http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0028.html (Rich)
14:08:02 <fjh> Awaiting further activity
14:08:13 <Josh_Soref> topic: Test cases and Interop
14:08:16 <fjh> Test cases and Interop
14:08:16 <fjh> Request for implementation status, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0069.html
14:08:16 <fjh> Test case approval process http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0003.html
14:08:46 <fjh> zakim, who is here?
14:08:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see fjh, Josh_Soref (muted), gmandyam, dom, anssik
14:08:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see anssik, gmandyam, Zakim, RRSAgent, fjh, dom, tobie, Josh_Soref, slightlyoff, trackbot, mounir
14:09:04 <Zakim> -anssik
14:09:27 <Zakim> +??P6
14:09:32 <anssik> zakim, ??P6 is me
14:09:32 <Zakim> +anssik; got it
14:10:08 <Josh_Soref> topic: Proximity, Light
14:10:17 <Josh_Soref> anssik: i'm looking for feedback from anne and dougt
14:10:46 <Josh_Soref> ... let me check the Mozilla Bugzilla
14:10:50 <Josh_Soref> ... to give you a quick summary
14:11:27 <anssik> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=842952
14:11:55 <fjh> i;Proximity, Light;new version of jean-claude implementaiton at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Jun/0009.html;
14:12:19 <Josh_Soref> ... they don't have experience merging the interfaces
14:12:40 <Josh_Soref> fjh: so they might wait 3 months or do something next week
14:12:59 <fjh> s/so they.*//
14:13:17 <Josh_Soref> fjh: is there a way to watch bugzilla?
14:13:21 <Josh_Soref> anssik: you can create an account
14:13:27 <Josh_Soref> ... and you can cc yourself to the bugs
14:13:29 <dom> s/fjh: so they might wait 3 months or do something next week//
14:13:31 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: you can also watch others
14:13:40 <Josh_Soref> ... either placeholder accounts/components
14:13:47 <Josh_Soref> ... or interesting people
14:13:55 <Josh_Soref> anssik: i'll include links to their bugs in the wiki
14:14:03 <Josh_Soref> fjh: i don't know if you'll be on the Futures calls
14:14:06 <Josh_Soref> ... it will be interesting
14:14:15 <Josh_Soref> fjh: so we're still waiting
14:14:23 <Josh_Soref> ... and we need to make a decision in a week or two
14:14:30 <Josh_Soref> ... who's doing this work?
14:14:32 <Josh_Soref> ... dougt?
14:14:36 <Josh_Soref> anssik: dougt was the original author
14:14:43 <Josh_Soref> ... Mozilla has many contributors
14:14:47 <Josh_Soref> ... some are volunteering
14:14:57 <Josh_Soref> ... so you can't expect schedules
14:15:08 <Josh_Soref> ... they aren't committing to schedules
14:15:14 <Josh_Soref> ... the guy working on this seems to be a volunteer
14:15:20 <Josh_Soref> fjh: is this Jeremy?
14:15:26 <Josh_Soref> anssik: yes, and i don't recognize him
14:15:33 <Josh_Soref> topic: Test cases and Interop
14:16:06 <Josh_Soref> fjh: all of the web tests are in a single repository
14:16:18 <Josh_Soref> ... and people in-w3 and outside-w3 can contribute using git
14:16:26 <Josh_Soref> ... and then there's a question about Approval
14:16:40 <Josh_Soref> ... and people said it's cumbersome to use XX to deal with approving
14:16:45 <Josh_Soref> ... and the pull-request
14:16:48 <Josh_Soref> s/XX/WG/
14:16:56 <Josh_Soref> ... is handled by people relevant to the test
14:16:59 <Josh_Soref> ... is that it, dom?
14:17:04 <Josh_Soref> dom: not sure where you got that
14:17:12 <Josh_Soref> fjh: you sent questions to the list
14:17:17 <Josh_Soref> dom: i sent questions to the list
14:17:25 <Josh_Soref> ... but i don't know that i saw a process detailed
14:17:32 <Josh_Soref> ... let me state what i understand of the current situation
14:17:48 <Josh_Soref> dom: until last week, i thought moving to github was aligning the Repo aspects of our test-work
14:17:57 <Josh_Soref> ... tobie indicated as part of using GitHub repository
14:18:08 <Josh_Soref> ... we'd have to align w/ a given process for submitting-reviewing-approving test cases
14:18:21 <Josh_Soref> ... and the reason is so we have a single process to make it easy for people to understand it
14:18:26 <Josh_Soref> ... and be open to external people
14:18:33 <Josh_Soref> ... afaik, the process itself hasn't been defined yet
14:18:45 <Josh_Soref> ... in particular, i don't know what the review and approval process is supposed to be
14:18:56 <Josh_Soref> fjh: tobie said he'd write something down based on what i was reading between the lines
14:19:03 <Josh_Soref> ... we'll see, we're waiting for tobie to write it down
14:19:15 <Josh_Soref> ... i did see a message from him to you saying yes, we need to write things down
14:19:22 <Josh_Soref> ... it doesn't affect us in the interim
14:19:25 <Josh_Soref> ... we still need tests
14:19:34 <Josh_Soref> ... and anssik is working on this?
14:19:35 <Josh_Soref> anssik: yes
14:19:39 <Josh_Soref> dom: if we want to exit CR
14:19:50 <Josh_Soref> ... for some of our specs, we need our testcases reviewed and approved by the WG
14:19:57 <Josh_Soref> ... i guess we could still do the old approval process
14:20:05 <Josh_Soref> ... without waiting for the new centralized process
14:20:19 <Josh_Soref> ... if we do wait for this new process, it'll create a time dependency, that we won't be happy with
14:20:32 <Josh_Soref> fjh: with GitHub, you need to use pull requests
14:20:35 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: not precisely true
14:20:41 <Josh_Soref> fjh: and wait for someone to merge things
14:20:44 <Josh_Soref> dom: i can merge things
14:20:55 <Josh_Soref> fjh: so we're good basically, we don't have a problem
14:21:11 <Josh_Soref> dom: we still need to define a plan for reviewing+approving testcases
14:21:15 <Josh_Soref> ... it needs to be done sooner or later
14:21:24 <Josh_Soref> fjh: the issue is adequate coverage
14:21:33 <Josh_Soref> ... and we want to interop for all features
14:21:41 <Josh_Soref> ... and given we want to make the spec simple and modular
14:21:50 <Josh_Soref> ... so the WG can do a CfC of "do we have coverage"
14:21:55 <Josh_Soref> ... i'm hoping it isn't a big issue
14:22:03 <Josh_Soref> dom: who would do coverage analysis
14:22:05 <Josh_Soref> ... and when?
14:22:13 <Josh_Soref> s/when/when would the CfC happen/
14:22:42 <Josh_Soref> fjh: a test writer (e.g. anssik) could decide they think they have coverage
14:22:49 <Josh_Soref> ... and the WG would have a CfC
14:22:58 <Josh_Soref> ... given the simplicity of the specs we're doing now
14:23:01 <Josh_Soref> ... Vibration
14:23:08 <Josh_Soref> ... but NSD is different
14:23:32 <Josh_Soref> ... not sure how we'd do that given the limited expertise in the group
14:23:40 <Josh_Soref> ... i guess the TF -- XXX
14:23:45 <Josh_Soref> ... that's an action
14:23:57 <fjh> action: fjh to review webapps approach to reviewing test cases
14:23:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-638 - Review webapps approach to reviewing test cases [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-06-12].
14:24:25 <fjh> s/TF -- XXX/Media Capture TF will review test cases for their work/
14:24:29 <Josh_Soref> topic: Action Review
14:24:46 <fjh> ACTION-523?
14:24:46 <trackbot> ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN
14:24:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523
14:25:00 <fjh> ACTION-621?
14:25:00 <trackbot> ACTION-621 -- Anssi Kostiainen to create test cases for HTML Media Capture -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN
14:25:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621
14:25:03 <Josh_Soref> anssik: there haven't been updates
14:25:07 <Josh_Soref> ... i haven't had much time
14:25:08 <fjh> ACTION-634?
14:25:08 <trackbot> ACTION-634 -- Anssi Kostiainen to update introduction of vibration to refer to notification API -- due 2013-06-05 -- OPEN
14:25:08 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/634
14:25:18 <Josh_Soref> fjh: you did action-634
14:25:20 <Josh_Soref> ... i can close that
14:25:45 <fjh> close ACTION-634
14:25:45 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-634 Update introduction of vibration to refer to notification API.
14:25:52 <Josh_Soref> anssik: yes that can be closed
14:25:56 <Josh_Soref> topic: Issue Review
14:25:58 <fjh> ISSUE-128?
14:25:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-128 -- Need more description on how bandwidth should be estimated -- open
14:25:58 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/128
14:26:05 <Josh_Soref> topic: Other Business
14:26:13 <Josh_Soref> fjh: anything to be said on Tizen
14:26:37 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:26:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-dap-minutes.html fjh
14:26:42 <dom> (regrets for next week from me)
14:26:49 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: there's a Futures call in 35 minutes
14:27:05 <Zakim> -gmandyam
14:27:12 <Zakim> -anssik
14:27:14 <Zakim> -dom
14:27:16 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, unmute me
14:27:16 <Zakim> Josh_Soref should no longer be muted
14:27:23 <fjh> s/implementaiton/implementation/
14:27:51 <fjh> s/anything to be said on Tizen//
14:28:47 <fjh> futures call http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-capture/2013Jun/0009.html
14:29:04 <Josh_Soref> [ adjourned ]
14:29:12 <Josh_Soref> trackbot, end meeting
14:29:12 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:29:12 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been fjh, Josh_Soref, gmandyam, dom, anssik
14:29:20 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
14:29:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:29:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-dap-minutes.html trackbot
14:29:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:29:21 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-dap-actions.rdf :
14:29:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: dom to arrange for DAP charter extension, per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013May/0078.html [1]
14:29:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-dap-irc#T14-05-38
14:29:21 <RRSAgent> ACTION: fjh to review webapps approach to reviewing test cases [2]
14:29:21 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/06/05-dap-irc#T14-23-57
14:29:21 <Zakim> -fjh
14:29:21 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended
14:29:21 <Zakim> Attendees were fjh, Josh_Soref, gmandyam, dom, anssik