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11:43:27 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT WG
11:43:28 <fsasaki> chair: felix
11:43:52 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013May/0259.html
11:44:15 <fsasaki> regrets: christian, jörg
11:44:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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11:45:33 <fsasaki> topic: roll call
11:46:12 <fsasaki> checking attendance ...
11:46:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
11:52:15 <kfritsche> present+ Karl
11:52:56 <fsasaki> present+ felix
11:53:57 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013May/0259.html
11:54:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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11:56:17 <philr> present+ philr
11:57:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
11:59:35 <fsasaki> scribe: philr
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12:01:05 <daveL> present+ daveLewis
12:01:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
12:01:44 <fsasaki> present+ olaf-michael
12:02:02 <fsasaki> present+ sebastian
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12:03:01 <Des> present+ Des
12:03:07 <Ankit> present+ Ankit
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12:04:13 <omstefanov> present- omstefanov
12:04:18 <leroy> present+ leroy
12:04:21 <Yves_> present+ Yves
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12:04:34 <dF> present+ dF
12:04:55 <fsasaki> topic: ]init[ presentation
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12:06:23 <Jirka> present+ Jirka
12:08:26 <philr> sebastian: Implmentation of ITS in Libre Office Writer
12:08:40 <philr> ...plan to finish in July
12:09:25 <philr> ...public agency customer, files translated by agencies
12:09:44 <philr> ...translate, locale, term and loc Note categories
12:10:30 <philr> ...new toolbar buttons for data categories
12:10:53 <philr> ...in middle of implementation schedule, gui challenges
12:11:50 <philr> ...extension can be installed, 3/4 categories implemented, markup can be attributed and notes added
12:12:00 <philr> ...markup can be visualised
12:13:21 <philr> ...load and save working
12:14:57 <philr> ...Challenges: WYSIWYG editor - have to make sure markup is never compromised by editing activities
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12:15:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
12:15:19 <philr> ...identification of markup extents
12:15:25 <fsasaki> present+ tadej
12:15:33 <tadej> present+ tadej
12:16:11 <philr> ...no big challenges with specification - was quite clear to read for implementation engineers
12:17:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
12:17:49 <philr> ...complexities in implementation because of use of various api's
12:18:57 <philr> ...had to use bookmarks
12:20:34 <philr> ...other challenges with file locking mechanisms and xml serialisation
12:21:39 <Pedro> present+ pedro
12:21:48 <philr> ...file round trip odt->bookmark-odt->itsodt->xliff->itsodt->bookmark-odt
12:23:13 <philr> ...next steps: finalise gui issues and import/export, present in Dublin and publish in July
12:24:02 <philr> daveL: are you using existing best practice for how to visualise markup?
12:24:35 <philr> sebastian: avoid well known formatting used for product functionality
12:25:12 <philr> daveL: does highlighting indicate markup existence or markup content?
12:25:22 <philr> sebastain: it just indicates markup existence
12:26:03 <philr> daveL: is there a facility to filter which tags are displayed?
12:26:27 <philr> sebastian: No, other than button state
12:27:26 <philr> daveL: data categories have different use caes and so perhaps need to be filtered within a CAT tool environment
12:27:35 <philr> sebastian: other questions?
12:28:42 <philr> Pedro: can metadata visualisation be expanded or collapsed for readability?
12:28:55 <philr> sebastian: No, as not possible in Libre Office
12:29:25 <philr> Pedro: search and replace works in metadata?
12:29:58 <philr> sebastian: No, because metadata is stored within implementation's own memory
12:30:43 <philr> Pedro: can edit metadata in Libra Office and Xliff?
12:31:08 <philr> sebastian: if you load Xliff then ITS is read in as ODT Bookmark
12:31:49 <philr> Pedro: if I select text which includes metadata and add attribute, can I go back and edit?
12:31:56 <philr> sebastian: yes,
12:32:04 <fsasaki> s/,//
12:32:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
12:32:41 <philr> sebastian: you can edit existing metadata
12:34:05 <philr> Felix: segmentation would be very useful to have for translation agencies
12:34:29 <philr> s/Felix/fsasaki/
12:34:48 <philr> end of presentation
12:35:07 <fsasaki> topic: Testing current state
12:35:14 <fsasaki> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html
12:35:54 <philr> We still have ITS Parameters to implement - plan to do so in parallel with NIF
12:40:18 <philr> dF: not confident to complete tests by June 11
12:40:40 <fsasaki> action: felix to look into dashboard update
12:40:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-534 - Look into dashboard update [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-06-05].
12:40:53 <fsasaki> topic: several topics
12:41:07 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013May/0259.html
12:42:27 <philr> There is NIF test files available, VistaTEC and TCD will implement
12:42:59 <philr> Dublin Showcase soon, re-use presentations as much as possible
12:43:12 <philr> daveL: Please register for Showcase
12:43:27 <philr> daveL: please also publicise
12:43:55 <fsasaki> topic: Section 1-2 edits from Christian
12:45:32 <philr> fsasaki: If anyone can spare time to edit please do so
12:47:20 <philr> daveL: we should make best effort to include those sections
12:47:32 <philr> ...primer document is still the same effort
12:48:02 <philr> ...think we should keep going with best effort
12:49:37 <philr> Pedro: suggest - each person takes 1 hour and writes a small paragraph under each index item so at least there's some content for the editors to choose from
12:49:40 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Input_to_section_one_and_two_by_all
12:50:15 <philr> fsasaki: great idea, please use wiki page above
12:51:05 <philr> daveL: that would work fro data gathering
12:51:21 <philr> s/fro/for/
12:52:40 <philr> dF: Pedro's idea good
12:53:40 <omstefanov> Somewhat off topic of today's meeting: I've added a reference to my talk at JIAMCATT 2013 on 16 May, as item 20 in http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Presentations_archive and uploaded my presentation.
12:55:38 <philr> 12/6 fsasaki to provide edit s17/6 first f2f look at edits
12:55:50 <philr> s/s17/17/
12:56:09 <philr> s/edit/edit,/
12:56:28 <fsasaki> topic: aob
12:56:44 <philr> daveL: any questions on the ITS->Xliffmapping?
12:56:55 <philr> s/ffm/ff m/
12:57:08 <philr> sebastian: we are not there yet
12:57:14 <fsasaki> xliff 1.2 mapping overview http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/XLIFF_1.2_Mapping
12:57:30 <philr> ...will do in June and contribute back information
12:58:11 <philr> omstefanov: 17/18 in Dublin?
12:58:16 <philr> fsasaki: yes
12:58:59 <philr> omstefanov: I posted a link to my presentation - have credited a few working group members - have uploaded to wiki
13:00:19 <philr> fasaaki: waiting for some NEF edits
13:00:35 <philr> fsasaki: meeting ended
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13:01:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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13:52:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:52:39 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-actions.rdf :
13:52:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: felix to look into dashboard update [1]
13:52:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-irc#T12-40-40
15:15:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mlw-lt
15:15:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-irc
15:16:09 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'start a new log now', fsasaki.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:16:15 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT editing call
15:16:35 <fsasaki> present+ christian, karl, david, yves, felix
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15:17:17 <Yves_> present+ Yves
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15:18:49 <daveL> present+ DaveLewis
15:20:36 <dF> present+ dF
15:22:09 <Pedro> present+ Pedro
15:26:36 <fsasaki> 1.4.4 Specific HTML support > 1.4.1 Specific HTML support
15:30:00 <fsasaki> 1.4.5 Mappings: one paragraph per subsection
15:31:04 <chriLi> RDF/NIF
15:31:07 <fsasaki> rename nif mapping section to
15:31:28 <fsasaki> "ITS and XLIFF" and "ITS and RDF/NIF"
15:33:19 <fsasaki> felix to write nif section (= one paragraph)
15:34:06 <fsasaki> dave to write, felix to review XLIFF paragraph
15:34:14 <fsasaki> s/felix to/david to/
15:36:06 <fsasaki> "1.4.6 Unicode normalization"  - felix will send ODD paragraph to christian
15:36:32 <fsasaki> "1.4.1 Additional data categories"
15:38:09 <fsasaki> take text content from req document about why they were added
15:39:27 <fsasaki> pedro to send motivation text via mail to felix
15:40:31 <fsasaki> "1.4.2 Modified data categories": dropped ruby, modified diretionality
15:41:08 <fsasaki> modified translate and  elements within text for html
15:42:31 <fsasaki> modifications: dropped ruby
15:42:52 <fsasaki> terminology datacat change
15:44:35 <fsasaki> "translate and  elements within text for html": say that it was modifeid for translate only
15:44:41 <fsasaki> same for selectors
15:48:21 <fsasaki> wrt to HTML changes: refer to HTML explanatory section
15:50:02 <fsasaki> "5.3.3 CSS Selectors" > input to 1.4.3.2 Modified selectors
15:50:34 <fsasaki> "5.3.1 Choosing Query Language" > input to 1.4.3.1 Query language on rules element
15:51:45 <fsasaki> "1.4.3.3 Parameters in selectors" gets input from 5.3.5 Variables in selectors
15:53:07 <fsasaki> "1.4.3.4 Traceability (toolsRef)"
15:53:30 <fsasaki> gets input from "5.8 ITS Tools Annotation"
15:54:16 <fsasaki> "1.4.6 Unicode normalization"
15:54:35 <fsasaki> content of "1.8 ITS 2.0 and Unicode Normalization"
15:54:59 <fsasaki> "1.4.7 Extended implementation hints"
15:55:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:56:12 <fsasaki> "how to do it with RDFa, ..." - make people aware of major approaches that are supported etc.
15:56:32 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013May/0252.html
15:57:01 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mlw-metadata-us-impl-20130307/
15:58:40 <fsasaki> christian to look up in the spec
15:58:59 <Yves_> Side note: "1.4.3.4 Traceability (toolsRef)" should be "1.4.3.4 Traceability (annotatorsRef)"
15:59:17 <fsasaki> "1.2 General motivation for going beyond ITS 1.0"
16:00:56 <Yves_> Sorry: I have to leave for another meeting. Bye.
16:00:57 <fsasaki> file:///Users/felix-adm/w3c-site/WWW/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.odd
16:01:13 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.odd
16:01:22 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.odd-version-for-sec-1-2.odd
16:03:24 <fsasaki> "1.2 General motivation for going beyond ITS 1.0"
16:04:01 <fsasaki> - cover more usage scenarios
16:04:38 <fsasaki> - cover enhancement ideas in ITS IG
16:05:09 <fsasaki> - other communities to address other content types than XML, e.g. HTML
16:05:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:05:54 <fsasaki> - new mechanisms were needed, e.g. toolsRef etc.
16:06:18 <fsasaki> - refer to three gaps we had in project proposal (felix will provide)
16:08:55 <fsasaki> - multilinguality in web is evolving, we need to respond to that
16:09:13 <fsasaki> the web is changing, we are changing too
16:10:15 <fsasaki> christian will spell this out in the odd
16:10:26 <fsasaki> "1.3 Broader Usage Scenarios"
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16:12:42 <daveL> section 1.3 broader usage scenario
16:13:12 <daveL> dave: asks do we keep the user profiles
16:13:35 <daveL> christian: thought we could express all this through use cases
16:14:33 <daveL> dF: useful to keep the actors, but more condensed and perhaps integrated into the use case
16:14:41 <fsasaki> ODD for editing sec1-2 is now here: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.odd
16:14:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:15:27 <Pedro> Usage scenarios: http://www.w3.org/International/its/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary
16:16:31 <Pedro> More about usage scenarios/users: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#users-usage
16:20:33 <daveL> ideas for clusters:
16:20:46 <daveL> content producers
16:20:49 <daveL> vendors of tools
16:20:57 <daveL> MT (and postediting?)
16:22:32 <daveL> terminology and text analytics
16:22:39 <daveL> QA and provenance
16:23:12 <Pedro> Clusters : 1. Content creation; 2. Content translation 3. Content publishing 4. Content leverage 5. Content analytics 6. Content learning/search processes 7. Content data link
16:23:29 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mlw-metadata-us-impl-20130307/
16:24:42 <fsasaki> group "2.1 Simple Machine Translation" to 2.18 under the 7 clusters?
16:26:27 <fsasaki> felix to try grouping by clusters in sec.  "1.3 Broader Usage Scenarios",  rather "1.3 Usage Scenarios"
16:30:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:33:08 <fsasaki> now looking at sec. 2
16:33:15 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#basic-concepts
16:34:35 <fsasaki> dropping sec. 2, having in sec. 1 one example that explains everything
16:40:01 <fsasaki> http://doodle.com/qnu3nhm7rncww2k2#table
16:45:37 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.odd
16:45:46 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20-for-editing-sec1-sec2.html
16:46:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:47:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/29-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki