15:00:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/28-wai-wcag-irc
15:00:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:00:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:00:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM already started
15:00:35 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:00:35 <trackbot> Date: 28 May 2013
15:00:38 <Zakim> +Cooper
15:01:04 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:18 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:19 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Adam_Solomon
15:01:20 <Zakim> +Adam_Solomon; got it
15:01:37 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
15:01:57 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
15:01:58 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:03:39 <korn> korn has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:53 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn
15:04:11 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft is Cherie_Eckholm
15:04:11 <Zakim> +Cherie_Eckholm; got it
15:05:17 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:05:26 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:05:26 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:05:32 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:05:34 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:05:41 <Zakim> + +1.613.907.aaaa
15:06:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:06:23 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is David_MacDonald
15:06:23 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald; got it
15:06:53 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Loretta_Guarino_Reid
15:06:53 <Zakim> +Loretta_Guarino_Reid; got it
15:06:55 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
15:07:08 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
15:07:08 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:07:39 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/2013/04/draft-wcag-charter
15:07:59 <adam_solomon> topic: new WCAG Charter
15:08:04 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:08:04 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:09:32 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013AprJun/0056.html
15:09:42 <MichaelC> regrets: Kathy_Wahlbin, Kerstin_Probiesch
15:11:21 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:11:21 <Zakim> Joshue was already muted, Joshue
15:12:16 <Joshue> +q
15:12:35 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:12:35 <Zakim> Joshue was already muted, Joshue
15:13:26 <Joshue> +q to say that there is a tension between policy adoption and backwards compat and the need to progress the guidelines.
15:13:36 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:14:27 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wai-wcag
15:14:32 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:14:39 <AWK> ack Joshue
15:14:40 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say that there is a tension between policy adoption and backwards compat and the need to progress the guidelines.
15:14:41 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
15:14:43 <Zakim> Joshue was not muted, Joshue
15:18:01 <Joshue> ack gregg
15:18:40 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:18:40 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:20:18 <W947C> W947C has joined #wai-Wcag
15:20:25 <AWK> q+ to say that we're not opening WCAG back up now, we are talking about evaluating the need to do so
15:21:16 <W947C> David is w947c
15:22:27 <Joshue> +q to ask does Gregg think we should remove the updates/addition clause altogether?
15:25:32 <Joshue> + q Respectfully disagree with Gregg, that is not what we are trying to do. We need to re-charter. We are not doing this charter work because we want to tinker with WCAG for the sake of it.
15:25:43 <AWK> ack AWK
15:25:43 <Zakim> AWK, you wanted to say that we're not opening WCAG back up now, we are talking about evaluating the need to do so
15:26:48 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:27:32 <W947C> Actually 10yrs btw 1 and 2
15:29:34 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
15:29:34 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:29:38 <Joshue> ack me
15:29:38 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask does Gregg think we should remove the updates/addition clause altogether?
15:30:39 <adam_solomon> andrew, josh do you want scribed details on this discussion, or just topic/resolution style
15:31:20 <W947C> Q+
15:31:39 <AWK> ack Gregg
15:31:41 <Joshue> ack gregg
15:32:03 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:32:03 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:32:56 <adam_solomon> gregg made the point that we need to consider looking forward to wcag 3 no less than updating wcag 2, and that an update would represent tons of work, which would be at the expense of moving forward to wcag 3
15:33:46 <Loretta> q+
15:34:09 <adam_solomon> andrew amde the point that we can discuss that issue when the time comes, and that we might very well decide that it doesn't need to be update, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't consider it in the frame of the charter
15:34:21 <Joshue> s/amde/made
15:34:37 <AWK> ack W947C
15:36:23 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
15:36:29 <AWK> ack Loretta
15:36:34 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:36:46 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:37:28 <adam_solomon> david: important to maintain stability for wcag 2 support, will be lots of work to get an update done, but should look for a way to make wcag adaptable to new technology
15:37:49 <korn> q?
15:39:51 <Joshue> +1 to Loretta
15:39:55 <korn> q+
15:40:24 <Joshue> ack gregg
15:42:46 <Loretta> q+
15:42:58 <Joshue> +q
15:43:41 <adam_solomon> loretta: fear of workload or stability shouldn't necessarily prevent us from including update in charter
15:45:36 <AWK> ack korn
15:46:00 <adam_solomon> gregg: including possibility of non backward compatiblity might prevent adoption of standards by the corporate world
15:46:54 <Joshue> +1 to Peter K
15:46:55 <AWK> "Explore needs and issues related to new or unaddressed accessibility concepts"
15:47:00 <korn> q-
15:47:13 <greggvanderheiden> +1
15:47:34 <Joshue> "Explore needs for potential future versions of Web Content Accessibility Guidelines"?
15:48:02 <Joshue> Sorry that was from a previous discussion with Andrew..
15:48:07 <Joshue> Damn you copy and paste..
15:48:14 <AWK> "Explore needs and issues related to new or existing accessibility concepts"
15:48:22 <AWK> q?
15:48:25 <Joshue> Thanks Peter..
15:48:44 <AWK> ack Loretta
15:48:47 <greggvanderheiden> existing is very different than Non-addressed
15:49:04 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:50:51 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
15:50:51 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
15:50:55 <Joshue> ack me
15:52:35 <Joshue> ack gregg
15:52:39 <adam_solomon> peter: changing language might assuage the potential backlash
15:52:54 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
15:52:54 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:53:51 <AWK> q+
15:54:08 <greggvanderheiden> Explore needs and issues related to new or unaddressed accessibility concepts
15:54:35 <adam_solomon> loretta: don't see any real problem with the language, all these issues are on the table for future discussion, charter shouldn't cause regulators to panic at this point since no one has yet decided there will be an update which would cause lack of stability
15:55:50 <AWK> ack me
15:57:52 <W947C> Explore needs emerging from new technologies and long term accessibility issues
15:57:52 <korn> q+
15:58:24 <Joshue> -q
15:58:29 <Joshue> +q
15:58:43 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/28-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
15:58:57 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:59:39 <MichaelC> chair: Andrew_Kirkpatrick
16:01:26 <MichaelC> ack k
16:03:18 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
16:03:18 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:03:21 <Joshue> ack me
16:03:25 <W947C> Q+
16:03:28 <AWK> ack joshue
16:04:40 <adam_solomon> andrew, josh: should not constrain ourselves from at least discussing improvements for end users because of the fear of "backward compatiblity"
16:07:54 <Joshue> ack gregg
16:08:32 <adam_solomon> peter: language of "need to explore..." may not indicate ability to actually change the standard, and therefore actually implementing an update would be subject to the same opposition from outside groups as would the current language
16:08:46 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:08:46 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:11:55 <AWK> ack David
16:12:19 <AWK> q+
16:13:11 <greggvanderheiden> Explore needs and issues related to new or unaddressed accessibility concepts and next generation Web Access Guidelines
16:13:34 <Zakim> -Cherie_Eckholm
16:13:41 <Joshue> +q
16:13:46 <AWK> ack me
16:13:51 <greggvanderheiden> ack w
16:14:46 <greggvanderheiden> q+   Do you see any single item that needs to be changed?   Is there any identified issue that you know of?
16:14:58 <greggvanderheiden> q+
16:16:01 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
16:16:01 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:16:06 <Joshue> ack me
16:16:17 <Joshue> Explore accessibility issues and define requirements for future versions
16:16:37 <korn> q+
16:16:39 <MichaelC> q+ to say the current charter does simply enable exploration, of features and of regulatory impact, and that should be reasonably unconstrained; a future charter will have to define scope limits on a publication and we´ll have this conversation then after having done the exploration
16:16:59 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:16:59 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:18:25 <greggvanderheiden> +1
16:18:39 <korn> q-
16:19:50 <greggvanderheiden> Explore accessibility issues and define requirements for next generation guidelines
16:20:06 <Joshue> ok, thanks Peter.
16:20:15 <Loretta> throw in "potential", either for requirements or future versions?
16:20:16 <korn> +1 to Gregg's variant
16:20:29 <korn> +1 to "adding potential"
16:20:39 <AWK> ack gregg
16:20:43 <AWK> q?
16:22:17 <AWK> ack loretta
16:22:42 <Joshue> +q
16:23:04 <AWK> ack michaelc
16:23:04 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say the current charter does simply enable exploration, of features and of regulatory impact, and that should be reasonably unconstrained; a future charter
16:23:07 <Zakim> ... will have to define scope limits on a publication and we´ll have this conversation then after having done the exploration
16:23:23 <greggvanderheiden> anything beyond tomorrow is future…   so future seems to be pretty ambiguous
16:23:49 <greggvanderheiden> next year?      2 years?     or really future?
16:24:10 <Loretta> Any of the above, *if* the WG finds it appropriate.
16:24:12 <AWK> "Explore accessibility issues and define requirements for potential future guidelines"?
16:24:12 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
16:24:12 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:24:19 <AWK> q?
16:24:20 <Joshue> ack me
16:25:51 <W947C> Explore new accessibility issues and long term accessibility  technology requirements
16:25:57 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:25:57 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:26:26 <greggvanderheiden> +1
16:26:27 <korn> +1 to AWK's text.  That works for me.
16:26:28 <greggvanderheiden> q+  to say " I think these latest versions are good.   The real question is what we answer when people ask  "Will you be making changes to WCAG 2.0?"
16:26:33 <Loretta> If we find a "short term" issue (e.g. mobile, anyone), we should discuss those too.
16:26:56 <Loretta> We will not be making changes to WCAG 2.0; it is a recommendation.
16:27:24 <Joshue> I can live with AWK's text
16:27:30 <Joshue> Better!
16:27:35 <Joshue> I like potential
16:27:38 <AWK> Explore accessibility issues and define requirements for potential future guidelines
16:27:46 <Loretta> If by some miracle we released WCAG 3.0 in a year, the agencies would have the same dilemna.
16:27:55 <greggvanderheiden> grin
16:27:57 <Joshue> Einstein said "Reality is a thing plus its potential" :-)
16:28:16 <Joshue> B-)
16:29:28 <Loretta> How about "unlikley"?
16:29:49 <Loretta> which has a very different sense from "maybe".
16:30:04 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:31:07 <Joshue> zakim, unmute me
16:31:07 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:32:16 <korn> http://www.w3.org/2013/04/draft-wcag-charter
16:34:36 <Joshue> Explore accessibility issues and define requirements for potential future guidelines
16:35:52 <adam_solomon> resolution: consensus on andrew's last pasted text ("explore..."), and continue discussion of charter next meeting
16:35:57 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
16:36:02 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:36:03 <Zakim> -Andrew_Kirkpatrick
16:36:03 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
16:36:04 <Zakim> -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
16:36:04 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:36:06 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:36:08 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:36:11 <korn> korn has left #wai-wcag
16:36:13 <Zakim> -Adam_Solomon
16:42:22 <Zakim> -Cooper
16:42:24 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
16:42:24 <Zakim> Attendees were Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Cooper, Adam_Solomon, Bruce_Bailey, Marc_Johlic, Peter_Korn, Cherie_Eckholm, Joshue, +1.613.907.aaaa, David_MacDonald, Loretta_Guarino_Reid,
16:42:24 <Zakim> ... Gregg_Vanderheiden, James_Nurthen
16:43:15 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:43:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/28-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
18:11:40 <Joshue> Joshue has joined #wai-wcag
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