16:58:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
16:58:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/16-tagmem-irc
16:58:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:58:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TAG
16:58:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
16:58:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
16:58:14 <trackbot> Date: 16 May 2013
16:58:38 <ht> Chair: Peter Linss
16:58:57 <ht> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/16-agenda
16:59:05 <ht> ht has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/16-agenda
16:59:17 <Zakim> TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started
16:59:24 <Zakim> +plinss
16:59:28 <ht> Yehuda, can you scribe, per Noah's request?
17:00:31 <Zakim> +??P1
17:00:40 <ht> zakim, ? is me
17:00:40 <Zakim> +ht; got it
17:01:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:01:18 <marcosc_> Zakim, IPcaller is me
17:01:18 <Zakim> +marcosc_; got it
17:01:41 <plinss> zakim, who is noisy?
17:01:47 <JeniT> JeniT has joined #tagmem
17:01:48 <marcosc_> Zakim, who is noise?
17:01:48 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, marcosc_.
17:01:50 <annevk> Zakim, passcode?
17:01:50 <Zakim> the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), annevk
17:01:52 <Zakim> plinss, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (3%), ht (90%)
17:02:06 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:02:09 <noah> noah has joined #tagmem
17:02:15 <annevk> Zakim, [IP is me
17:02:15 <Zakim> +annevk; got it
17:02:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:02:35 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
17:02:48 <noah> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
17:02:48 <Zakim> +noah; got it
17:02:49 <Zakim> -ht
17:03:15 <Zakim> +??P1
17:03:37 <noah> zakim, mute me
17:03:37 <Zakim> noah should now be muted
17:03:51 <noah> zakim, unmute me
17:03:51 <Zakim> noah should no longer be muted
17:03:54 <slightlyoff> "this passcode is not valid"
17:03:59 <ht> 0tag
17:04:04 <Zakim> + +1.415.997.aaaa
17:04:09 <ht> s/0tag//
17:04:11 <slightlyoff> ht: that's never the issue
17:04:21 <slightlyoff> ht: it always takes me 3 tries
17:04:26 <slightlyoff> ht: with the right code
17:04:31 <noah> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/16-agenda
17:04:32 <slightlyoff> anyway, I'm in = )
17:04:57 <slightlyoff> how do I tell Zakim that 415... is me?
17:05:13 <slightlyoff> thanks, JeniT!
17:05:33 <ht> Scribe: Henry S. Thompson
17:05:37 <ht> ScribeNick: ht
17:05:42 <ht> Topic: Admin
17:06:28 <slightlyoff> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/04/18-minutes.html
17:06:50 <ht> NM: We will need a while to review those
17:06:57 <noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-minutes.html
17:07:30 <ht> RESOLVED: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/05/02-minutes.html approved as a record of the meeting of 2 May 2013
17:08:24 <ht> NM: Marcos has decided he has to resign from the TAG, as being the second of two employees at Mozilla
17:08:37 <ht> NM: There will be a special election to replace him
17:08:57 <ht> NM: I encourage people to work to encourage good candidates to be nominated
17:09:04 <slightlyoff> do we know when the election will be?
17:09:13 <ht> PL: And encourage people to stand
17:09:26 <ht> NM: We should hear from Ian Jacobs shortly about the timetable
17:09:27 <slightlyoff> thanks.
17:09:40 <ht> NM: It will pbly take several month
17:10:23 <annevk> marcosc_: this world is not big enough for the both of us
17:10:42 <ht> NM: Do we have an off-cycle call next week?  I suggest we pend that decision, but only have a call if someone raises agenda items
17:10:51 <ht> NM: Discuss github now, or wait for f2f?
17:11:07 <ht> PL: MC, will you be at F2F?
17:11:10 <ht> MC: yes
17:11:19 <ht> PL: Introduce topic?
17:11:34 <ht> MC: We have a space, we can use it. . .
17:11:38 <JeniT> I have been using https://github.com/w3ctag to put up some presentations intended for F2F
17:11:51 <ht> NM: What org. owns this service?
17:12:22 <ht> MC: Git itself is distributed, so we replicate everything at W3C
17:12:33 <ht> NM: So we would have W3C URIs?
17:12:56 <ht> MC: Yes.  Already doing this for SysApps WG
17:13:24 <slightlyoff> I'm a big fan of this, BTW
17:13:27 <ht> NM: So we can rely on W3C for persistence, and stick with the usual date-space disciplines
17:13:40 <ht> PL: Proxying?
17:14:03 <ht> MC: DNS magic, Dave Raggett set it up. . .
17:14:28 <ht> NM: Now unclear -- if Github got bought, would we be at risk?
17:14:47 <ht> MC: SysTeam is looking at bullet-proofing this
17:15:43 <ht> PL: We don't yet have a git host at W3C, but we do have a mercurial host there, and then surface that through github
17:16:19 <ht> NM: Does that actually give e.g. MC what he wants?  I don't think he could push via git?
17:16:31 <JeniT> +1 for collaboration & pull requests
17:16:52 <ht> PL: The goal of exposing via git is to get into a social space
17:16:59 <ht> ... and be visible there
17:17:37 <ht> NM: Sounds like they all have the necessary functionality
17:17:44 <JeniT> +1 for having a presence in github
17:17:48 <JeniT> +1 for doing work on github
17:17:50 <slightlyoff> I think we should do this
17:17:51 <slightlyoff> +1
17:17:54 <ht> q+ to prefer mercurial for my own work
17:18:25 <ht> MC: Let's postpone the decision to the f2f, where we will have more folk
17:18:34 <ht> NM: Trial this on one or two projects?
17:18:37 <ht> q- ht
17:19:15 <ht> Topic: F2F Admin and logistics
17:20:04 <ht> AvK: Breakfast and Lunch are laid on, no dinner at the venue
17:20:13 <slightlyoff> is there a thing we can link to to help spread the word?
17:20:26 <annevk> not yet I think
17:20:32 <ht> NM: There is a dinner on the Wed. night, details coming from DA
17:20:39 <slightlyoff> is there going to be a signup? how will this work?
17:20:52 <ht> NM: And the dev. meetup, at Mozilla, again  details to come
17:20:56 <annevk> slightlyoff: I'd suggest asking dan
17:21:11 <ht> Topic: F2F agenda
17:21:19 <Zakim> -noah
17:21:24 <slightlyoff> oooook. Would love for this to be widely broadcast so we get lots of developers
17:21:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:21:54 <ht> PL: 1st day will be ---Camp approach, to collect agenda topics and longer-term TAG work items
17:21:59 <noah> zakim, [IPCaller] is me
17:21:59 <Zakim> +noah; got it
17:22:20 <ht> PL: It would be good to have some things to read going in
17:22:38 <ht> ... but we're looking to the membership to provide topics
17:22:44 <ht> q+ to mention HTTPbis
17:22:46 <annevk> slightlyoff: I think the idea is to broadcast through London Web Standards, but I recommend reaching out to Dan
17:22:50 <JeniT> +1 for camp approach
17:22:55 <ht> +1
17:23:04 <marcosc_> +1
17:23:05 <slightlyoff> +1
17:23:08 <ht> ack ht
17:23:09 <Zakim> ht, you wanted to mention HTTPbis
17:23:36 <slightlyoff> +1, would love to hear about this
17:23:40 <noah> ht: httpbis is going into last call. I've been doing close reading and would like to go over with group
17:23:52 <noah> PL: Fine by me, reading?
17:24:01 <noah> HT: Will try to get you notes, but not sure yet
17:24:09 <JeniT> q+
17:24:42 <ht> JT: Slides in preparation for  ??? and distributed Web Architecture
17:24:55 <ht> ... So there won't be prior reading
17:25:10 <Zakim> -JeniT
17:25:25 <JeniT> s/???/capability URLs/
17:25:51 <Zakim> +??P8
17:25:52 <noah> +1 to capability URLs.   Would love to see slides early so we can get some email discussion ahead of F2F
17:25:59 <ht> I might like to (re-)introduce persistence
17:26:15 <ht> I have a keynote to give on the topic at the end of june.. . .
17:26:30 <noah> (Newcomers should know that I'm famously skeptical of the wisdom of capability URIs, but that's put me in what appears to be a vanishingly small minority of TAG members)
17:26:42 <JeniT> noah, I'll send round links to slides
17:26:57 <noah> Thank you!
17:27:26 <ht> JT: Alex's stuff?  Is there more to come on that?
17:27:46 <noah> Suggest at some point we look through the several ACTIONS relating to things that people promised/hoped to prepare for the F2F
17:28:14 <ht> AR: I have a number of meetings intervening, but we should discuss idiomatic API design, as well as a hit list of APIs for review
17:28:30 <ht> ... We should find a way to work on that together
17:28:53 <ht> ... YK and MC were talking about particular APIs
17:29:17 <noah> ACTION-784?
17:29:17 <trackbot> ACTION-784 -- Alex Russell to with help from Yehuda to frame F2F discussion of layering -- due 2013-03-04 -- OPEN
17:29:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/784
17:29:24 <ht> MC: I think we should have that discussion, I'm concerned that we don't lose sight of the declarative/idiomatic tradeoff
17:29:59 <ht> NM: Idiomatic APIs is not layering?  Or is it?
17:30:44 <ht> AR: We covered a lot at the last meeting on the general stuff, so now we get to the details, which _is_ idiomatic APIs
17:30:55 <annevk> (Is the stuff I mentioned about apps on the agenda? It's not really clear to me what has been recorded and what has not.)
17:31:17 <ht> NM: So we got the general stuff, but I've missed the connection to APIs
17:31:47 <ht> AR: Yes, we need some stuff in the middle, I should try to supply that
17:32:02 <ht> NM: I would like to hear what our goals our -- what would success be
17:32:12 <ht> ... not now, but before we go much further
17:32:29 <slightlyoff> agre
17:32:31 <slightlyoff> agree
17:32:43 <noah> tnx
17:33:09 <noah> Anyway, if new chairs want to continue using the ACTIONs tracker to keep track of what's up, we might want to returne ACTION=784
17:33:31 <ht> Present: Anne van Kestern, Henry S. Thompson, Jeni Tennison, Marcos Caceres, Noah Mendelsohn, Peter Lins
17:33:43 <ht> PL: So, AR, can you get us anything before the F2F?
17:33:50 <JeniT> http://w3ctag.github.io/presentations/reveal/capability-urls.html#/
17:33:51 <ht> AR: Yes, I'll try to get email out soon
17:34:18 <noah> ACTION-563?
17:34:18 <trackbot> ACTION-563 -- Noah Mendelsohn to arrange for periodic TAG key issues reports to Jeff per June 2011 F2F -- due 2013-05-18 -- OPEN
17:34:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/563
17:34:50 <ht> NM: We have a standing obligation to report to JJ about what's coming that we think he should know about
17:35:16 <ht> NM: For example, certificate authority vulnerabilities
17:35:41 <ht> NM: We can of course say we don't have anything
17:35:45 <noah> ACTION-749?
17:35:45 <trackbot> ACTION-749 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from HT and JT to draft the TAG's response to the ISSUE-57 change proposal process initiated on 29 February 2012, based on http://www.w3.org/wiki/TagIssue57Proposal27/Background and F2F minutes of 8 October 2012. -- due 2012-11-13 -- OPEN
17:35:46 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/749
17:36:48 <ht> JT: I'm waiting on URLs in Data publication before taking that forward
17:36:50 <noah> ACTION-749?
17:36:50 <trackbot> ACTION-749 -- Jonathan Rees to with help from HT and JT to draft the TAG's response to the ISSUE-57 change proposal process initiated on 29 February 2012, based on http://www.w3.org/wiki/TagIssue57Proposal27/Background and F2F minutes of 8 October 2012. -- due 2013-07-01 -- OPEN
17:36:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/749
17:36:58 <ht> NM: So we'll bump the due date
17:37:13 <ht> s/we'll bump/I've bumped/
17:37:34 <ht> PL: Nothing more?
17:37:40 <noah> Jeni, I should have checked for this agenda. You have two pending review actions. Should we discuss them if we run out of agenda today?
17:37:46 <noah> They are:
17:37:49 <noah> ACTION-752?
17:37:49 <trackbot> ACTION-752 -- Jeni Tennison to update URIs in data primer based on discussion at Tuesday F2F -- due 2012-11-13 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:37:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/752
17:37:50 <noah> and
17:37:53 <noah> ACTION-790?
17:37:53 <trackbot> ACTION-790 -- Jeni Tennison to do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR -- due 2013-04-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:37:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/790
17:37:56 <slightlyoff> we might have skipped it, but I wanted to say thanks to noah for getting the iCal feed set up
17:37:58 <JeniT> both are awaiting publication
17:38:03 <JeniT> I have sent to Yves
17:38:09 <noah> You're welcome, but Peter did almost all the work.
17:38:25 <noah> Indeed, Peter is running the server, so bug him if it breaks.
17:38:38 <slightlyoff> thanks plinss!
17:38:46 <slightlyoff> plinss: is there any chance we can socialize this with other WGs?
17:39:00 <noah> close ACTION-752
17:39:00 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-752 Update URIs in data primer based on discussion at Tuesday F2F.
17:39:09 <noah> close ACTION-790
17:39:09 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-790 Do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR.
17:39:18 <slightlyoff> JeniT: LGTM on the fragid draft
17:39:47 <ht> Topic: iCal feed
17:40:07 <ht> AR: Can anyone besides PL add entries?
17:41:03 <ht> PL: It's write-only for chairs at the moment
17:41:12 <ht> AR: If we could merge other WGs in would be helpful, in terms of planning etc.
17:41:24 <ht> PL: Just get them to ask for a login
17:41:42 <ht> PL: If this expands, we may need to look at moving it to W3C as such
17:41:59 <ht> NM: It is your server, PL?
17:42:09 <ht> PL: Under my control, paid for by HP [for CSS]
17:42:45 <annevk> Come on people. It's just a calendar thingie. ;-)
17:42:55 <ht> PL: We set it up to experiment with stuff which needed to be outside w3.org for CSS
17:43:08 <ht> ... It's available
17:44:03 <ht> AvK: Is there a preliminary agenda for the F2F available?
17:44:35 <ht> AvK: I mentioned something last week, not sure I know how to find out if it got noted
17:45:13 <ht> NM: DA and PL have in mind to use ---Camp approach, starting with seeds from e.g. discussion today
17:45:32 <ht> AvK: So there will be a WikiPage?
17:45:43 <ht> NM: We have TAG wiki space at w3c
17:45:48 <annevk> and we should maybe create http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG
17:46:23 <marcosc_> or: https://github.com/w3ctag/f2f-meetings/wiki
17:46:25 <marcosc_> ;)
17:46:40 <annevk> marcosc_: I don't really see the point in using GH for that
17:47:23 <annevk> marcosc_: the URLs you get are way worse and there's none of the distributed benefits
17:47:24 <ht> I prefer W3 space
17:47:40 <ht> wiki.w3.org/TAG
17:48:15 <ht> AvK: W3C should have only one wiki
17:48:30 <noah> I get "You don't have permission" from wiki.w3.org/TAG
17:48:40 <ht> I should have said http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG
17:49:00 <annevk> which is what I said ;)
17:49:00 <noah> Right, you should :-)
17:49:19 <noah> That works
17:49:24 <slightlyoff> SGTM
17:50:00 <marcosc_> +!
17:50:05 <marcosc_> +1 even
17:50:39 <ht> NM: Next week?
17:50:46 <ht> AvK: I pbly can't
17:51:27 <ht> NM: So we leave it on the books, but expect that we won't actually have a call on 23 May
17:51:32 <ht> PL: Works
17:52:08 <JeniT> bye
17:52:10 <slightlyoff> later!
17:52:10 <Zakim> -marcosc_
17:52:11 <Zakim> -JeniT
17:52:13 <Zakim> -noah
17:52:15 <Zakim> -slightlyoff
17:52:15 <ht> http://www.w3.org/wiki/TAG now exists
17:52:17 <Zakim> -plinss
17:52:22 <Zakim> -annevk
17:52:30 <Zakim> -ht
17:52:31 <Zakim> TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
17:52:31 <Zakim> Attendees were plinss, ht, marcosc_, annevk, JeniT, noah, +1.415.997.aaaa, slightlyoff
17:52:51 <ht> Noah - confirm you can read/edit that page?
17:53:16 <ht> Or Anne?
17:53:18 <noah> Will check, one sec...
17:53:59 <noah> Sorry, I don't have my wiki password handy...as I recall, it was separate from W3C usual login or not?
17:54:07 <noah> I do have my usual w3c login
17:54:07 <annevk> it should be W3C login I think
17:54:12 <noah> Will try
17:54:13 <annevk> also W3C username
17:54:15 <ht> My usual W3 logiing worked
17:54:29 <annevk> wfm too
17:54:30 <ht> Yes, I had forgotten to use my w3 name
17:55:25 <noah> Yup, np editing. You should see a small update from me.
17:58:48 <ht> zakim, bye
17:58:48 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tagmem
17:58:56 <ht> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:58:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/16-tagmem-minutes.html ht
17:59:03 <ht> rrsagent, bye
17:59:03 <RRSAgent> I see no action items