eGov IG

13 May 2013


See also: IRC log


Rich_Schwerdtfeger, PhilA, [IPcaller], +3531896aaaa, +3737957aabb, LarsG, +1.919.617.aacc
elsa, PhilA


<elsa> Morten - are you there?

<elsa> ok

<PhilA> scribe: elsa

<PhilA> scribeNick: elsa

Transparency and Accountability

Tomasz is welcoming participants and announcing the speakers and presentations we will have today

<Morten> trying to get this thing to work... Is this a chat line only?

<tomasz> Morten, you can dial up

<tomasz> to Dial to +1-617-761-6200 using standard phone or skype, and type in the conference code 3468#

Morten - it will be easier if you connect on the phone (by skype) to +1 617 761 6200 conference code 348#

Tomasz request a round of instruction

Elsa from EGOV Center

<Morten> will get on asap.... skype credits are acting up.

Guillermina from UNU-IIST-EGOV

from Wellington New Zealand

JF and KNY can you introdeuce yourself

Lars - From National Library interested in open data

Morten - is introducing

Stella - eGovernment Center in Moldova

Stella request to speak before since she needs to take a plane

Frank - from Ireland area of interest e-Gov and e-Gov theory

there are some acronyms who Tomasz cannot recognize

Tomasz intreoduced himself

<KNY> Hello all, I come from Taiwan.

Tomasz asks Stella to present first - presentations are available on wiki

Government of Moldova launched in 2010 egov transformation agenda

use of ICT to transform government and reduce corruption

Government e-Transformation in Moldova, Vision and Achievements, Stela Mocan

agenda supported by World Bank

<PhilA> Stela's Slides

pillars of the document

key policy components supporting their action - gov. program in tranbsforming public service

<Laurence> apologies for being late. Just joined audio

using more than technology in government

governments plans to use mobile technlogy

Moldova has good coverage in mobile technology - coverage is 109%

the use of this technology can speed up adoption of e-Gov

all public services should be digitized by 2020

by 2020 services should be available through mobile devices

370 services available

73 electronic services have been implemented

systems and services that has been launched and also those that will be launched

they are working on sectorial ministers

<Morten> FYI: I am online and in the call :)

there are other projects implemented directly by the agencies

they partner with 2 mobile operators

they also launched digital signature last year

they also consulted with Estoniana and Austrian partners

they very much rely on PPP

they are digitizing and making online public services

slide 10 shows services already available

to make sure that they can use modern technologies they need proper authentication

they are implementing a service for gove. authentication

they are implementing this authentication service

another important porject to decrease corruption and increase transparecny

is the governemnt payment system

it has been launched last month and they are now connecting agencies

they implemented this with the National Bank of Moldova and Ministry of Finance

they are accepting various payment methods integrated with this system

<Morten> @ PhilA: Thanks for that.

other services are interated and provided through the government cloud

their cloud provide 3 types of services at infrastructure, services and platform

challenges - increase quality and reduce costs

solve interoperability issues of systems that do not talk to each otehr

they are at the procyurement phase of the gov. interoperability platform

this project are also supported by a pillar of open government initiative

one of th epillars is opne data and open government

they joined Open Government partnership last year

the challenges are described in slide 20

they are proud that last year they achieved almost 70% of the plan for 2012-2013

all open government agenda started with open government data

slide 21 shows the interface of open data portal

they launched the portal - 2 directives were signed by the Prime Minister to support this initiative

they are working on a new release of the portal - it will be realeased by end of this year - they will reach various stakeholders

they are publishing data about their budget since 2000

the inititative has been recognized by international transparency 2months ago

slide 23 shows their priorities - building gov infrastructure

that allows fast digitization of services, deploy mobile technology to reach citizens, engage private sector, use social media

university help them to develop guidelines to use social media

they have very good partners from the very beginning - WB, Singapore, Beligium...

they invite to join them and be aware of their initiatives through social media

she welcomes questions

Tomasz - questions to Stella

population of Moldova

about 6.5 M

1M leave inside the country

the mobile digital signature is aceptable and funcitonal through outside the country through roaming

so Moldovan citizens living abroad will be able to access e-servivces

Laurence - congratulates for a fantastic job - he ask what are the big challenges

the challenges are to make sure that all infrastructure services are used by gov, citizend and privat sector

also to keep momentum

use mobile digital signature

and the 3rd one is ensure that everything yhey bill is institutionalized in government environemnt and is used by civil servants,gov. officials,

Phil - there are many things he would like tpo follow so he would like Tomasz to provide him her email

he is interested in mobile digital signature and technologies behind that - he is working in a project engaging 25 countries developing this ytpe of infrastructure and he would like to engage them on this

how difficult was to develop the plan when they engaged the OGP

they are also to share what they did

she is happy to share all this information and she asks Tomasz to share their contact details

regarding OGP, they engaged with development partners and in late 2011 they worked in action plan for 3 months

thye had challenges from the government side - political situation they had several elections in last 3 times

they managed to secure political support

they need to use other tools to deliver, like capacity building workshops

throiugh consutlation process they were able to gain support

Tomasz thanks Stella

Tomasz requests Frank to present

Transparency: Some Inconvenient Thoughts, Frank Bannister

Frank - a very brief presentation on a very complicated subject

he espects this to be controversial presentation

<PhilA> Frank's slides

he is interested in governance and e-governance

as well as privacy which inspires

talking about transparency in mainstream government activity

slide 2 - two pics - people who write about gov they come from IS

on the right hand a burocrat trying to be a nerd

the frist group (PA) has its own journals

and thsi group bring egovernment into their theories

the secon gropu from PA

first group (IS)

I havee difficultie sto listen Frank

Phil cna you scribe


<PhilA> scribe: PhilA

<scribe> scribeNick: PhilA

Frank: Slide 3. Left hand side shows some reasons why transparency is seen as a good thing
... there is the public's right to know
... Goes through the +ve reasons
... Want to focus on the right hand side, the negatives
... all these interlink
... slide 4, what is an employer allowed to know about you
... there's a growing thought that if we're paying you we can monitor you
... some research showed that 80% of employees at one location were using social media during working hours
... resulting discussion was, OK, you can use social media but we can monitor what you're doing on it
... Trinity College is semi public. If I pass on a bad reference for a student, I am now potentially open to a law suit due to openness. So we write a bland reference for fear of expressing the truth
... the opposite of transparency is used as a tool. Cabinet papers, for example, sealed for 30 years so that discussions can be held in confidence, genuine opinions expressed etc.
... fear of openness affects people. Not just politicians who can take care of themselves, but staff's careers are at stake. End result is that discussions get taken under ground
... Slide 7. Social media data can be analysed and 'anonymous data' can become personal data. Gives example of a store knowing a woman was pregnant before her father did
... don't know the risks that some people are running through open data
... if you put info in the public domain, people are unlikely to understand it. They rely on the media to explain/filter - and they may get it wrong
... common example is school league tables. All printed, show which schools are best at getting pupils into top universities
... they ignore sociological data, background etc. The value add that a school provides. Very complex
... refers to MMR/autism falsehoods, still believed by lots of people despite evidence
... the more info you give to citizens about how decisions are made, the level of trust in the decisions seems to diminish, not increase
... impact of transparency is not always positive

tomasz: Thank you for a thought provoking presentation


Laurence: I agree with you in general, it's not a simple mantra. But public servants look for reasons to not publish info. There is a tendency to secrecy. FOI Acts have tried to turn that around
... now say that info is available unless there's a reason to withhold it
... 'something bad might happen' isn't enough of a reason to keep things closed
... does complexity give servants an out?

<Morten> Have a comment

<elsa> Civil servants try to keep information for themselvesz

<elsa> Frank agrees with this

Frank: Used to be a public servant. Collecting data is hard and so tendency os to hang on to it

<elsa> yes

<scribe> scribe: elsa

<scribe> scribeNick: elsa

Frank: it needs carefully thinking constantely

every time you release information it requires carefully thinking

increasingly this is becoming a problem because of the way things can be linked up

a professor was talking how people can be disturbed or getting wrong ideas

it is extremely difficult

natural instict of civil servants is to hold information'

<Morten> Zakim

<Morten> can you turn up for the sound again?

on the balancing of differnt factors - would this be to be refered to different contexts to be resolved? (opening varopus data to the public) for instance refer to cultural factors (Tomasz asked)

<Morten> Thanks PhilA

Frank: I do not believe all people are rationale and may assume media will analyze

it is contextual

education and context, time frame all comes into it

governance is a very complex system

there are times when governments need to hide from the public and at the same time

tehre are other times when the public can collaborate

Frank: replies a question about transparecny and elimination of corruption - transparency can contribute to elimination of corruption

he is not saying that there are no good things about transparency

it menas that needs to be cautious becasue it can cause a lot of harm (Frank)

Frank - we have corrputoin problems but I am not sure if more transparency can stop the corruption that is going on

soemthing is surprise me that that there is corruption that peopl ecan see

everybody knows about corruptive practcies, so what transparency can add?

thei ssue is that nobody has the courage to stop the problems

thing slike electronic cash can help to reduce corruption

Morten is welcome

h ei s currently in Georgia

Phil - sorry, I cannot understand

can you continue, my connection is too bad


Frank - the type of data that is needed is too expensive to release

Phil - I cannot follow the conversation

can you please, continue scribing?

<PhilA> I can confirm that the link between house prices and school performance is absolute here in Britain

<PhilA> Frank: Raises link between house prices and school league tables in UK and mentions Matthew effect - more given to those with more, more taken from those who have least

The Danish Approach to eService Take-up and Inclusion, Morten Meyerhoff Nielsen

<PhilA> Morten's slides

<PhilA> Morten: Focussing on 2 key questions

<PhilA> How can personalisation facilitate greater efficiency in public sector service provision?

<PhilA> How can personalised and user-centric public services increase citizen satisfaction?

<PhilA> Morten: High online reach

<PhilA> ... in Denmark

<PhilA> ... they use online services anyway. But we need to focus on people can use online services but don't, and those that want to but can't - two different groups

<PhilA> ... Slides are expressive

<PhilA> ... can use combination of legislation and practicality to move people to online services

<PhilA> ... i.e. paper based is possible but it's more difficult than online

<PhilA> ... but need to make user friendliness important

<PhilA> ... now on slide 9

<PhilA> ??: Well functioning services are also important

<PhilA> ... ah, right, the presentation itself was talking

<PhilA> ... confusing for a scrib

<PhilA> Morten: All roads must lead to action. Wherever you arrive at the portal, you should be lead to something useful

<PhilA> ... we have info based online services so I don't call up about it, or I have transaction services

<PhilA> ... now on Slide 14 I think

<PhilA> ... talking about feedback loop between Web pages and call centres

<PhilA> ... so call centres update the FAQs. The Web site is not static

<PhilA> Slide 13 shows personalisation aspects through a secure login

<PhilA> ... this is done without giving the civil servant any access to the personal data

<PhilA> ... we think this will drive the success of the services in DK in future

<PhilA> ... but we know that 20% of the population still won't use the online services for various reasons

<PhilA> ... later slides talk about how we're using the mobile platform

<PhilA> ... using responsive Web Design and not proprietary Apps (thank goodness says the W3C guy)

<PhilA> ... slides 20-21 shows most popular topics. This varies depends on season

<PhilA> ... later slides look at progress against targets

<PhilA> Morten: WE took offline the facility to discuss day to day issues because no one was using it

<PhilA> ... open gov and open data programmes more interesting

<PhilA> ... we don't necessarily call it that in Denmark

<tomasz> yes Phil, he is finishing

<PhilA> ... DK has signed up to the OGP programme which previous administration didn't

<tomasz> sorry, i did not manage time well today

<PhilA> Morten: Talk about sharing core data, company data ewtc. not 'open data'

<PhilA> Morten: Our OGP commitments are quite simple

<PhilA> Morten: Lots of OGP commitments being made through legislation. Authorising the collection of company data is enough for companies to meet one requirement for example

<PhilA> ... we don't make data available for its own sake, we just use it as a tool to achieve things

<PhilA> morten: Last slides has contact details

<PhilA> tomasz: Any questions?

<PhilA> tomasz: Mandatory online services means offline will be phased out. Digital divide?

<PhilA> Morten: If we don't tell people they should do it then they won't. We want to push people firmly towards it and then handle the small numbers that don't

<PhilA> ... we want to remove the paper trail

<PhilA> tomasz: Thanks speakers and scribes