14:49:39 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:49:39 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/07-wai-wcag-irc
14:49:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:49:41 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:49:43 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:49:43 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
14:49:44 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:49:44 <trackbot> Date: 07 May 2013
14:54:51 <korn> korn has joined #wai-wcag
14:59:50 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 9224
14:59:50 <Zakim> MichaelC, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be 9224".
15:01:27 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:33 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:01:40 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:02:17 <Zakim> +MIT-D451
15:03:04 <MichaelC> zakim, MIT-D451 has Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue_O_Connor, Judy_Brewer, Michael_Cooper
15:03:05 <Zakim> +Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue_O_Connor, Judy_Brewer, Michael_Cooper; got it
15:03:11 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft is Cherie_Eckholm
15:03:11 <Zakim> +Cherie_Eckholm; got it
15:03:17 <Judy> Judy has joined #wai-wcag
15:04:23 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:04:38 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
15:06:22 <Zakim> + +1.650.506.aaaa
15:06:30 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #WAI-WCAG
15:06:41 <korn> Zakim, aaaa  has Peter_Korn
15:06:41 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
15:06:56 <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aabb
15:08:35 <MichaelC> zakim, aabb is Loretta_Guarino_Reid
15:08:35 <Zakim> +Loretta_Guarino_Reid; got it
15:09:22 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
15:09:50 <Judy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:09:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Cherie_Eckholm, MIT-D451, Marc_Johlic, +1.650.506.aaaa, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald
15:09:52 <Zakim> MIT-D451 has Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue_O_Connor, Judy_Brewer, Michael_Cooper
15:09:52 <Zakim> +1.650.506.aaaa has Peter_Korn
15:10:25 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:10:39 <Loretta> scribe:Loretta
15:12:53 <Loretta> Judy: Providing background on rechartering.; for recommendation track work, charters are reviewed by W3C management.
15:12:55 <MichaelC> topic: Charter
15:13:32 <Loretta> Judy: Activities (like WAI) have a maximum 3 year cycle. So the working group's charter can go for a maximum of 3 years.
15:14:14 <Loretta> Judy: WCAG 2.0 is stable; the implementation support group that the WG has been developing is important work, and hopefully will be continuing.
15:14:50 <Loretta> Judy: At the same time, with new cochairs and with the passage of time, it is important to look ahead for what may be important to do for future versions of WCAG.
15:15:10 <Loretta> Judy: But the WG hasn't discussed this at all.
15:15:28 <Zakim> + +1.608.514.aacc
15:15:45 <Loretta> Judy: So the situation is that for process reasons, the WG needs a new charter. And you should be looking ahead towards the future.
15:15:53 <MichaelC> zakim, aacc is Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:15:53 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
15:16:02 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wai-wcag
15:16:22 <Loretta> Judy: But based on discussion with Andrew and Josh, the WG has not had the discussions and is not ready to say that a new version might be needed, and on what timeframe.
15:16:49 <Loretta> Judy: There is a huge demand for mobile accessibility, and lots of people don't understnad that WCAG 2.0 also applies to mobile.
15:16:59 <Loretta> Judy: There may be cognitive requirements, etc.
15:18:09 <Loretta> Judy: There may be a need for minor version in a couple of years, or a major version farther out, but there clearly needs to be requirements discussion before timelines could be proposed.
15:18:40 <Loretta> Judy: So the charter should include requirements work. if the requirements discussion leads to a timeline for rec track work, the charter can be updated.
15:19:02 <Loretta> Judy: But a few cautions: WCAG 2 has had a lot of impact. It has been taken up in a lot of settings.
15:19:23 <Loretta> Judy: If there is any change that might be pending, it throws uncertainty into those uses.
15:19:43 <Loretta> Judy: Exploratory discussions do not imply that there will be a new version soon.
15:20:07 <Loretta> Judy: It is important to emphasize that WCAG 2.0 is stable, and will continue to be stable for the forseeable future.
15:20:37 <Loretta> Judy: Michael, Andrew, and Josh have been doing some draft charter work, but this is *draft* and it is important that
15:20:53 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/2013/04/draft-wcag-charter Draft WCAG charter
15:20:54 <Loretta> Judy: everyone understand that everything is still up for discussion.
15:21:28 <Loretta> Judy: People pay attention to even exploratory discussion, so it was important to get this explanation out.
15:21:56 <Loretta> Judy: We need to get a draft WCAG charter in the next few weeks.
15:22:12 <korn> q+
15:22:23 <David> q+
15:22:34 <Loretta> Judy: so probably all that should be included is requirements discussion while the WG engages in a larger investigation.
15:22:48 <AWK> ack Peter
15:22:48 <Joshue108> ack korn
15:22:57 <Loretta> q+ gregg
15:23:18 <Loretta> Peter: Do we need a 3 year charter, or would it make sense to make a charter for a shorter duration?
15:23:51 <Loretta> Judy: You don't need a charter that spans the next several years. There is no requirement. You could publish a charter for W3C management and advisory review that is a 1 year charter.
15:24:22 <Loretta> Judy: If there were't other important working going on, like the ongoing Understanding and Tec hniques updates, this might be a good idea.
15:24:47 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:24:48 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130430Misc/results#xq5 Last week´s survey results on charter thoughts
15:24:52 <Loretta> Judy: But a 1 year charter might send the message that those documents wouldn't be updated after that 1 year.
15:25:06 <AWK> James - DRAFT charter is at http://www.w3.org/2013/04/draft-wcag-charter
15:25:13 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
15:25:32 <AWK> ack gregg
15:25:37 <Loretta> However, if the WG produces a 3 year charter, and discovers that there is rec work that falls in that timeframe, the charter could be updated.
15:25:58 <MichaelC> chair: Joshue_O_Connor
15:26:21 <Judy> s/like WAI/like the two Activities under WAI/
15:26:24 <Loretta> Gregg: Rec track work takes 10 times as long as you could imagine, and it will take a long time to get through the rec track process for even limited changes.
15:26:34 <MichaelC> regrets: Bruce_Bailey, Kerstin_Probiesch
15:26:41 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013AprJun/0039.html
15:26:46 <Judy> s/the implementation support group/the implementation support materials/
15:27:06 <Loretta> Gregg: To reinforce what Judy had to say about uncertainty, there are people who would like to see major changes of all types, and once you start discussing opening things up, you will hear from a wide variety of people.
15:27:31 <Loretta> Gregg: One reason to have a standard is because it is stable, and if things look uncertain, there is a reluctance to adopt.
15:27:41 <Judy> s/looking ahead towards/exploring what might be needed for/
15:27:53 <Loretta> Gregg: We have seen groups decide to stop and wait because of anticipated changes.
15:28:05 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:28:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:28:11 <Loretta> s/looking ahead towards/exploring what might be needed for/
15:28:20 <Joshue108> ack david
15:28:33 <Judy> s/it throws/it could throw/
15:28:46 <Loretta> David: here in Canada, almost 5 years after the standard, people are just starting to realize there is a standard they should meet.
15:29:02 <Loretta> David: WCAG is still new to people here and just starting to learn what it means.
15:29:15 <Loretta> David: People ask me whether WCAG 3 is coming.
15:29:24 <AWK> q+
15:29:48 <Loretta> David: I agree with Gregg that stability is important. Their adoption depended on stability.
15:29:57 <Joshue108> ack AWK
15:30:00 <Loretta> Josh: WCAG 2.0 is stable and will be stable.
15:30:26 <Loretta> Andrew: I'm hearing similar things as Davie about stability. At the same time, we hear from people about issues with WCAG.
15:30:36 <Joshue108> s/Davie/David
15:30:41 <Judy> s/after that 1 year/after that 1 year; therefore, I would recommend a different approach, based on what I'm seeing -- proposing a 3-year charter to continue existing work, and to explore requirements for potential future work.
15:30:49 <Judy> q+
15:30:49 <Loretta> Andrew: There are things to talk about. I don't know what the answer is - a minor update, or something farther out.
15:31:04 <Loretta> Andrew: We need to do our investigative due diligance.
15:31:43 <Joshue108> ack Judy
15:31:48 <Loretta> Andrew: The main thing coming out of this charter is that we have a lot of work to do supporting the existing standard, but also need to cast an eye towards the future.
15:32:09 <Zakim> +Andrew_Kirkpatrick
15:32:33 <Loretta> Judy: In talking with people, be careful to clearly represent the status of where the discussion is. very exploratory, just about requirements.
15:32:58 <Loretta> Judy: remember to remind people that WCAG 2.0 is stable and will be for the foreseeable future.
15:33:16 <David> q+
15:33:22 <Loretta> Judy: Even the requirements discussion will take quite a bit of time, and any emerging from that discussion will take even longer,
15:33:42 <Joshue108> ack David
15:33:59 <Loretta> Josh: Agree with Judy. Particularly as we manage the transition to new chairs.
15:34:22 <korn> q+
15:34:24 <Loretta> David: suggest including in charter that there will be no revision of WCAG 2.0.
15:34:53 <Loretta> Michael: We are not talking about revising WCAG 2.0. The requirements discussion would be about potential successors.
15:35:45 <Loretta> Michael: Even republishing to address errata is out of scope of this charter (and also seems to introduce other problems).
15:36:33 <Joshue108> ack korn
15:36:57 <Loretta> Peter: with the draft that is being considered, is there any barrier to continuing to collect and publish errata?
15:37:13 <Loretta> Michael: it is called out under Scope 1.a - maintain errata.
15:37:31 <Loretta> Michael: they don't have normative impact, and so far we have only document editorial errata.
15:37:46 <Loretta> Judy: Collecting and logging errata is a normal part of W3C process.
15:40:42 <Loretta> Review of charter
15:40:49 <Loretta> Mission section is equired.
15:40:57 <Loretta> s/eq/req/
15:41:01 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
15:41:01 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:41:45 <Loretta> Paragraph enabling Task Forces, since they can be useful, but only operate under the working group.
15:41:52 <korn> q+
15:41:52 <Zakim> -Cherie_Eckholm
15:42:09 <Loretta> Success Criteria section identifies how to evaluate whether the group is being successful.
15:42:24 <Loretta> The Out of Scope section identifies things that the group will not be taking on.
15:43:24 <Loretta> If there were Rec work, Milestones would include timeline of the milestones for that work.
15:43:29 <Zakim> -Andrew_Kirkpatrick
15:44:04 <Loretta> participation is usually boilerplate, but there is an expected level of participation. Towards the bottom, things get more and more boilerplate.
15:44:20 <Loretta> Make sure the charter and scope sections seem appropriate.
15:44:25 <Joshue108> ack korn
15:44:42 <Loretta> Peter: where do the existing task forces and their deliverable go?
15:45:14 <Loretta> Judy: in charters, it is not typical to call out specific task forces, since the charters are usually a longer span than most task forces.
15:45:35 <Loretta> Judy: For example, the WCAG2ICT is likely to be concluded before even a short charter timeframe.
15:45:50 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
15:45:50 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:45:51 <Loretta> Judy: Generally, the task force structure is good to have on a fluid basis.
15:45:53 <AWK> q+ to say that for a future task force with the goals of WCAG2ICT we'd justify that under meeting the goals of supporting WCAG implementation
15:46:36 <Loretta> Michael: I would be reluctant to call out specific task forces, but the scope allows us to form task forces.
15:47:19 <Loretta> Michael: In Other Deliverables, "less format publications" is the hook for task force deliverables.
15:47:27 <Loretta> s/format/formal/
15:48:08 <Loretta> Peter: I'm also thinking about the Evaluation Task Force.
15:48:56 <Loretta> (Discussion of what might be added, where, to cover task forces in the charter).
15:49:28 <Joshue108> ack AWK
15:49:28 <Zakim> AWK, you wanted to say that for a future task force with the goals of WCAG2ICT we'd justify that under meeting the goals of supporting WCAG implementation
15:50:16 <Judy> s/a short charter timeframe/a short charter timeframe would be concluded./
15:50:25 <Joshue108> +q
15:50:36 <Joshue108> ack me
15:51:15 <Judy> q+
15:51:24 <Joshue108> ack Judy
15:52:16 <Loretta> Judy: Current task force wording is pulled pretty directly from the W3C process document.
15:54:35 <Loretta> [Walkthrough of the current draft]
15:56:27 <korn> +1
15:56:38 <David> q+
15:56:43 <David> q+
15:56:51 <Joshue108> ack David
15:57:08 <Judy> zakim, who's on the call?
15:57:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see MIT-D451, Marc_Johlic, +1.650.506.aaaa, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald, Gregg_Vanderheiden, James_Nurthen
15:57:09 <Loretta> Judy asks how the group feels about requirements gathering.
15:57:11 <Zakim> MIT-D451 has Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue_O_Connor, Judy_Brewer, Michael_Cooper
15:57:11 <Zakim> +1.650.506.aaaa has Peter_Korn
15:57:53 <Loretta> Positive responses...
15:57:54 <Joshue108> LGR: This is the right time to be thinking about these issues.
15:58:13 <Loretta> Gregg: The future is coming at us pretty fast.
15:58:58 <korn> q+
15:59:00 <Loretta> Draft charter will be put out for survey, for discussion next week.
15:59:02 <Joshue108> ack korn
15:59:43 <MichaelC> q+
15:59:51 <Loretta> Peter: clarification about Loretta's remarks on 2ICT about referencing the task force. Was this the general sense of the WG?
16:00:48 <Joshue108> LGR: I saw Judys reply and agreed with it.
16:00:52 <MichaelC> ack me
16:00:54 <Loretta> Peter: a search for the word "task force" shows that it is riddled with it.
16:01:04 <Joshue108> LGR: Also Michaels comment about writing in the third person is good.
16:01:43 <Joshue108> LGR: I think the empahsis on the outcome rather than the process is important.
16:02:29 <Joshue108> zakim, queue?
16:02:29 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:03:34 <Zakim> - +1.650.506.aaaa
16:03:36 <Zakim> -MIT-D451
16:03:38 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:03:39 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:03:39 <Zakim> -Loretta_Guarino_Reid
16:03:39 <korn> korn has left #wai-wcag
16:03:41 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:03:41 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:03:41 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
16:03:41 <Zakim> Attendees were Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue_O_Connor, Judy_Brewer, Michael_Cooper, Cherie_Eckholm, Marc_Johlic, Peter_Korn, +1.650.214.aabb, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, David_MacDonald,
16:03:42 <Zakim> ... +1.608.514.aacc, Gregg_Vanderheiden, James_Nurthen
16:03:50 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
17:57:15 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
17:59:36 <Judy> Judy has joined #wai-wcag
18:33:19 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #wai-wcag
18:43:35 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
19:20:47 <MichaelC_> MichaelC_ has joined #wai-wcag
20:07:42 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag