15:03:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-media
15:03:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/05/07-html-media-irc
15:03:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:03:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-media
15:03:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
15:03:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
15:03:28 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
15:03:28 <trackbot> Date: 07 May 2013
15:04:29 <glenn> zakim, this will be htmn
15:04:31 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, glenn
15:04:36 <glenn> zakim, this will be html
15:04:36 <Zakim> ok, glenn, I see HTML_WG()11:00AM already started
15:04:45 <glenn> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:04:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mark_Watson, pal, [Microsoft], +1.417.671.aaaa, +1.425.202.aabb
15:04:52 <glenn> zakim, aaaa is me
15:04:53 <Zakim> +glenn; got it
15:04:58 <johnsim> zakim, [microsoft] is me
15:04:59 <Zakim> +johnsim; got it
15:05:00 <ddorwin> zakim, aabb is me
15:05:00 <Zakim> +ddorwin; got it
15:06:03 <BobLund> BobLund has joined #html-media
15:10:08 <BobLunbd> BobLunbd has joined #html-media
15:11:34 <glenn> scribenick: johnsim
15:11:43 <glenn> chair: ddorwin
15:12:21 <joesteele> joesteele has joined #html-media
15:12:24 <johnsim> TOPIC Roll call
15:12:36 <glenn> zakim, who's here?
15:12:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mark_Watson, pal, johnsim, glenn, ddorwin
15:12:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see joesteele, BobLunbd, Zakim, RRSAgent, ddorwin, pal, johnsim, markw, glenn, trackbot, wseltzer
15:12:44 <johnsim> done
15:12:50 <ddorwin> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013May/0008.html
15:12:50 <Zakim> + +1.408.536.aacc
15:12:58 <joesteele> zakim, aacc is me
15:12:58 <Zakim> +joesteele; got it
15:13:19 <Zakim> + +1.303.661.aadd
15:13:31 <BobLunbd> zakim, aadd is me
15:13:31 <Zakim> +BobLunbd; got it
15:13:32 <johnsim> http://www.w3.org/2013/04/30-html-media-minutes.html
15:14:13 <johnsim> Topic: Action Items
15:14:21 <jdsmith> jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:14:23 <glenn> Action-10?
15:14:23 <trackbot> ACTION-10 -- Adrian Bateman to discuss bug 19208 with johnsim -- due 2013-04-22 -- OPEN
15:14:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/10
15:15:02 <johnsim> http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo
15:15:14 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:15:33 <ddorwin> Action 10 is related to "Keymessage event not needed when Key System already has Key"
15:15:33 <trackbot> Error finding '10'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/users>.
15:15:50 <ddorwin> Which has been replaced with bug 21855
15:15:58 <ddorwin> "Avoid network traffic and duplicate sessions for the same key(s)"
15:16:29 <ddorwin> Action-11?
15:16:29 <trackbot> ACTION-11 -- Mark Watson to write a proposal for the case where the data is not available to the JS -- due 2013-04-02 -- OPEN
15:16:29 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/11
15:17:12 <johnsim> markw: new update for action 11 is in a week
15:17:22 <johnsim> done
15:17:48 <johnsim> Topic: EME status and bugs
15:18:00 <johnsim> http://tinyurl.com/7tfamb
15:18:18 <johnsim> correction: http://tinyurl.com/7tfambo
15:19:16 <johnsim> Things done: Removed the second needkey event (19788). Require key IDs (19810) Updated examples to use asynchronous XHR and addEventListener (16541, 18928). Added Issue blocks for error codes and asynchronous loading of the CDM. Swapped 5.1 <-> 5.2 then 4 <-> 5. Removed the FAQ, which was superfluous and diverging from the main text.
15:20:33 <johnsim> joesteele: did removing FAQ clear bugs referring to the FAQ?
15:23:01 <johnsim> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2013May/0004.html
15:23:18 <joesteele> q+
15:23:43 <ddorwin> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21854
15:24:44 <johnsim> ddorwin: replaces a bunch of bugs - we have a lot of bugs about when to fire bugs, asynchronous events,
15:25:11 <joesteele> q-
15:25:55 <johnsim> ddorwin: lifecycle one, we need some proposed text. Adrian had a proposal. Lifecycle may lead to states or events. comments?
15:26:25 <johnsim> joesteele: a useful diagram - forget who put it together - lifecycle or states changing
15:26:44 <ddorwin> Diagram is in https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=20688#c5
15:27:55 <markw> markw has joined #html-media
15:28:22 <johnsim> ddorwin: we need to discuss states
15:28:46 <markw> q+
15:29:16 <johnsim> markw: aagree with joe's comment, key message and getting the message back state
15:30:10 <ddorwin> markw: The question is whether the application needs to know the state or can tell from the events
15:31:53 <johnsim> johnsim: provide a state diagram example
15:32:41 <ddorwin> Next bug: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21855
15:32:50 <ddorwin> "Avoid network traffic and duplicate sessions for the same key(s)"
15:33:45 <johnsim> joesteele: i had one picky comment - avoiding network traffic - my concern is not the additional network traffic but impact on user
15:34:00 <johnsim> joesteele: no reason to make the user act when you already have the key
15:34:14 <johnsim> joesteele: if the application has decided that it does not want to forward the key request
15:34:40 <johnsim> joesteele: hashed something in some other way or user has said "no", you are kind of stuck
15:34:54 <johnsim> joesteele: may not be clear what the application should do in response to that
15:35:24 <johnsim> ddorwin: CDM - for first one - doesn't care if server or application - talking to the UA which is talking to the application - as long as it leads to some result
15:35:40 <johnsim> ddorwin: second one, wouldn't you just call close?
15:36:30 <johnsim> joesteele: agree
15:37:31 <johnsim> ddorwin: next one is media key error codes, skip that one - research that i haven't pasted yet
15:37:52 <ddorwin> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=16857
15:37:56 <johnsim> ddorwin: group of 4-5 looking for feedback
15:38:09 <johnsim> ddorwin: current discussion is whether we need this
15:39:34 <johnsim> any good reason for application to distinguish - three causes of this error
15:40:07 <johnsim> ddorwin: UA does not support decryption of this content. may not be possible to determine that, so not supported would be a better error
15:41:06 <johnsim> ddorwin: UAs that don't support decryption, to determine it is encrypted, applications that don't have a needkey handler, maybe they just get a decode error or not supported
15:41:38 <johnsim> joesteele: if i am a developer writing an application and i don't know the content is encrypted, how would i know that i need to provide a needkey handler?
15:42:03 <markw> q+
15:42:12 <johnsim> ddorwin: even if you have an event handler, hopefully an error handler, could be one you don't recognize
15:42:57 <johnsim> markw: summary is useful. what we do about the case where we provided key but it is the wrong one?
15:44:11 <johnsim> ddorwin: basically, fired needkey, but it is not what i need, so there is not anything we do in any of the algorithms for that, relates to lifecycle
15:45:48 <joesteele> q+
15:45:59 <johnsim> ddorwin: how do you indicate that the application things it is done
15:46:22 <johnsim> ddorwin: and that would be a mediakey error and not a media error
15:48:16 <johnsim> q+
15:48:26 <ddorwin> ack markw
15:48:29 <ddorwin> akc joe
15:48:41 <ddorwin> ack joesteele
15:49:32 <johnsim> ddorwin: error when App is not EME aware, and is that the right thing to do
15:50:05 <johnsim> joesteele: if you are not EME aware, encrypted content - maybe I need to do something more in app
15:50:19 <johnsim> ddorwin: when to distinguish EME aware and EME unaware app
15:51:16 <johnsim> q-
15:51:20 <joesteele> q-
15:52:16 <johnsim> ddorwin: call createsession without getting the data from the needkey event - to avoid getting the key error you would have to register the needkey event
15:52:39 <markw> q+
15:53:42 <johnsim> ack markw
15:54:13 <johnsim> markw: knows that information out of band, not a big imposition to require registering needkey()
15:54:28 <johnsim> ddorwin: john and mark comment in the bug on what they just said
15:55:43 <johnsim> joesteele: one more question - isn't the case where you need to throw this error only going to happen when you don't already have the key you need?
15:56:05 <johnsim> ddorwin: depends on the second bug, always firing needkey event, tbd in the avoid network traffic
15:56:34 <johnsim> ddorwin: i believe we will always fire the needkey event, have to load the CDM to do otherwise
15:57:15 <johnsim> johnsim: create mediakeys = EME aware?
15:57:34 <Zakim> -BobLunbd
15:58:11 <johnsim> ddorwin: it can be even more messy for timing, create media keys and assign element and then load the media, might be simpler to just load the handler
15:59:30 <johnsim> ddorwin: there are those other bugs, down to 29, alot of them are looking for closure or comments, resolutions, please comments on the bugs, especially those in the minutes
16:00:03 <ddorwin> topic: AOB
16:00:28 <johnsim> joesteele: i can scribe for the next meeting
16:00:55 <johnsim> ddorwin: assume next meeting is EME. MSE went to pre-last call - should be driving towards zero
16:01:07 <johnsim> adjorned
16:01:07 <Zakim> -pal
16:01:09 <Zakim> -joesteele
16:01:12 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:01:14 <Zakim> -ddorwin
16:01:16 <Zakim> -Mark_Watson
16:01:20 <glenn> rrsagent, publish minutes
16:01:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/07-html-media-minutes.html glenn
16:01:32 <glenn> trackbot, end meeting
16:01:32 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:01:32 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Mark_Watson, pal, +1.417.671.aaaa, +1.425.202.aabb, glenn, johnsim, ddorwin, +1.408.536.aacc, joesteele, +1.303.661.aadd, BobLunbd,
16:01:35 <Zakim> ... [Microsoft]
16:01:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:01:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/05/07-html-media-minutes.html trackbot
16:01:41 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:01:41 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:01:44 <Zakim> -glenn