13:57:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp
13:57:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/29-ldp-irc
13:57:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:57:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ldp
13:57:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
13:57:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
13:57:24 <cody> cody has joined #ldp
13:57:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:57:25 <trackbot> Date: 29 April 2013
13:57:56 <Zakim> +Sandro
13:58:03 <Zakim> +??P7
13:58:10 <pchampin> zakim, ??P7 is me
13:58:10 <Zakim> +pchampin; got it
13:58:29 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:58:36 <cody> zakim IPcaller is me
13:58:38 <sergio> sergio has joined #ldp
13:58:51 <cody> zakim, IPcaller is cody
13:58:51 <Zakim> +cody; got it
13:59:02 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
13:59:21 <rgarcia> rgarcia has joined #ldp
13:59:23 <Zakim> + +329331aaaa
13:59:39 <Zakim> +Arnaud
14:00:05 <Zakim> - +329331aaaa
14:00:33 <svillata> svillata has joined #ldp
14:00:46 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #ldp
14:00:54 <nmihindu> nmihindu has joined #ldp
14:01:10 <Zakim> + +329331aabb
14:01:12 <Zakim> +??P17
14:01:18 <mielvds1> zakim, +329331aabb is me
14:01:18 <Zakim> +mielvds1; got it
14:01:41 <Zakim> +??P2
14:01:53 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ldp
14:01:54 <rgarcia> zakim, ??P2 is me
14:01:54 <Zakim> +rgarcia; got it
14:01:55 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:01:56 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveBattle, Sandro, pchampin, cody, JohnArwe, Arnaud, mielvds1, ??P17, rgarcia
14:02:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:02:26 <roger> roger has joined #ldp
14:02:36 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
14:02:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
14:02:42 <sergio> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:02:42 <Zakim> +sergio; got it
14:02:52 <Zakim> +??P24
14:02:56 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller.a is me
14:02:56 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:02:59 <JohnArwe> regrets: steve speicher, eric p
14:03:08 <Zakim> +??P25
14:03:09 <Arnaud> regrets: bart
14:03:23 <JohnArwe> zakim, who's making noise?
14:03:30 <Zakim> + +44.208.573.aacc
14:03:34 <Zakim> JohnArwe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (38%), ??P25 (42%)
14:03:41 <AndyS> Partial apologies - limited to 30 mins.
14:03:48 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:03:49 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveBattle, Sandro, pchampin, cody, JohnArwe, Arnaud, mielvds1, ??P17, rgarcia, sergio, Ashok_Malhotra, AndyS, ??P24, ??P25, +44.208.573.aacc
14:04:18 <Zakim> -??P25
14:04:34 <roger> kakim, +44.208.573.aacc is me
14:04:43 <Zakim> +bblfish
14:04:46 <nmihindu> zakim, ??P24 is me
14:04:46 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
14:04:52 <roger> zakim, +44.208.573.aacc is me
14:04:52 <Zakim> +roger; got it
14:04:58 <Zakim> +??P27
14:05:16 <svillata> Zakim, ??P27 is me
14:05:16 <Zakim> +svillata; got it
14:05:44 <Arnaud> scribe: svillata
14:05:51 <JohnArwe> zakim, who's making noise?
14:06:03 <Zakim> JohnArwe, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: SteveBattle (46%), JohnArwe (9%), Arnaud (64%), mielvds1 (3%)
14:07:22 <svillata> Topic: approval minutes last call
14:08:24 <Zakim> +??P31
14:08:26 <Zakim> -??P31
14:08:59 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software
14:09:04 <TallTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
14:09:04 <Zakim> +TallTed; got it
14:09:19 <Zakim> +Yves
14:09:30 <svillata> Arnaud: we can change the minutes accoding to TallTed argument
14:09:37 <JohnArwe> arnaud: will clean up minutes to address JohnArwe's email
14:09:50 <JohnArwe> s/accoding/according/
14:09:59 <stevebattle> Thanks
14:10:07 <svillata> Arnoud: I will update the monutes
14:10:19 <AndyS> Transactions?
14:10:30 <svillata> RESOLVED: minutes approved
14:10:46 <nmihindu> s/monutes/minutes
14:10:56 <svillata> Topic:next F2F meeting
14:11:15 <svillata> Arnaud: please specify your participation to the next F2F meeting
14:11:25 <bblfish> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F3
14:11:30 <roger> just for info, next Monday is public holliday here in UK ...
14:11:44 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
14:11:44 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
14:11:53 <svillata> Topic: Actions and Issues
14:12:23 <bblfish> Action-54>
14:12:23 <trackbot> ACTION-54 -- Nandana Mihindukulasooriya to review the 'PROV-AQ: Provenance Access and Query' document and provide feedback -- due 2013-04-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:12:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/54
14:12:34 <Arnaud> resolved: close action-54
14:12:35 <svillata> RESOLVED: Close ACTION-54
14:13:04 <svillata> Arnaud: Any other action to be consider for closure?
14:13:33 <krp> krp has joined #ldp
14:14:27 <svillata> Arnaud: time is going by, we have quite a few actions we are waiting for
14:15:02 <svillata> Arnaud: there was an action about the patch, do you know the status of it?
14:15:17 <bblfish> The PATCH format action is important
14:15:34 <stevebattle> q+
14:15:36 <bblfish> Is there a PATCH Action?
14:16:04 <Arnaud> ack steveb
14:16:26 <svillata> Arnaud: at the F2F we agree on the direction, we need to make sure we don't are lost
14:16:47 <svillata> ... we don't have an action on that
14:16:59 <svillata> ... Sandro is working on the PATCH action
14:17:29 <svillata> Arnaud: we have one rased issue
14:17:30 <Zakim> +??P35
14:17:48 <krp> zakim, ??P35 is me
14:17:48 <Zakim> +krp; got it
14:17:48 <svillata> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/61
14:18:00 <svillata> Topic: ISSUE-61
14:18:23 <svillata> Arnaud: why do you think it is a problem?
14:18:43 <SteveS> SteveS has joined #ldp
14:18:50 <SteveS> SteveS has left #ldp
14:19:20 <JohnArwe> zakim, who's making noise?
14:19:29 <stevebattle> q+
14:19:31 <Zakim> JohnArwe, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: rgarcia (9%), mielvds1 (4%)
14:19:32 <TallTed> bblfish - you moved from a clear vocal space, to the bottom of a well...
14:20:20 <Arnaud> ack steveb
14:20:49 <svillata> stevebattle: the membership subject is not necessarily a separate LDPR
14:21:03 <JohnArwe> q+
14:21:13 <svillata> ... I agree with your point of view, maybe removing flexibility
14:21:15 <Arnaud> ack john
14:21:28 <bblfish> Issue-61
14:21:28 <trackbot> ISSUE-61 -- remove membershipSubject -- raised
14:21:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/61
14:22:24 <bblfish> q?
14:22:42 <rgarcia> zakim, mute me
14:22:42 <Zakim> rgarcia should now be muted
14:23:16 <svillata> JohnArwe: we have existing resources to be structured naturally, I assign membership subject or vary membership predicate
14:24:14 <svillata> bblfish: you only allow the content to be placed to another container
14:24:35 <AndyS> Inline members which may be containers (so type triple is not unique)?
14:24:36 <Zakim> -??P17
14:24:42 <svillata> ... for the moment the relations can only be a sub-relation of RDF member
14:25:07 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:25:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see SteveBattle, Sandro, pchampin, cody, JohnArwe, Arnaud, mielvds1, rgarcia (muted), sergio, Ashok_Malhotra, AndyS, nmihindu, roger, bblfish, svillata, TallTed
14:25:11 <Zakim> ... (muted), Yves, krp
14:25:33 <svillata> ... we could think to a way of doing things in a more general way
14:26:02 <svillata> bblfish: the new container is related to the new content
14:26:40 <svillata> ... membership predicate does not say LDP membership
14:26:46 <krp> krp has joined #ldp
14:27:09 <svillata> Arnaud: there is no restriction to RDF member
14:27:17 <stevebattle> q+
14:27:38 <Zakim> +??P17
14:27:53 <krp> zakim, ??P17 is me
14:27:53 <Zakim> +krp; got it
14:27:56 <svillata> q?
14:28:08 <Arnaud> ack steveb
14:28:32 <svillata> stevebattle: I agree with John, there is not such a kind of restriction
14:29:18 <pchampin> q+
14:29:39 <roger> @steveabattle ... on the subject, is my opinion
14:30:10 <svillata> Arnaud: you may have a resource which has nothing to do with LDP resource
14:30:19 <stevebattle> Sounds like there's a difference of interpretation here then?
14:30:22 <pchampin> q-
14:30:27 <Arnaud> ack pchampin
14:30:27 <svillata> Arnaud: we need to move on
14:30:47 <svillata> pchampin: I can ask my question on the mailing list
14:31:31 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:31:31 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
14:31:38 <svillata> Arnaud: it's better to go on with the open issues and actions
14:32:33 <svillata> q?
14:32:57 <AndyS> "I don't understand" (which is rather open) needs to be turned into "If I read it as XYZ, then ABC is a problem"
14:33:49 <svillata> Arnaud: either we close it or we rename it as membership subject
14:34:03 <svillata> bblfish: I can rename for next week
14:34:22 <TallTed> e.g., "membershipSubject needs better description, or possible removal"
14:34:33 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
14:34:33 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
14:34:41 <mielvds1> agreed, rename and retake
14:34:46 <svillata> Arnaud: unless somebody makes a concrete proposal
14:34:51 <stevebattle> I'd prefer to see clarification.
14:35:13 <svillata> bblfish: you can close the issue and then I'll reopen it clarifying
14:35:40 <stevebattle> yes
14:35:41 <mielvds1> ok
14:35:44 <sergio> ok
14:35:49 <svillata> ok
14:35:54 <Arnaud> resolved: close issue-6`, henry to raise another issue asking for clarification
14:36:03 <Arnaud>  resolved: close issue-61, henry to raise another issue asking for clarification
14:36:11 <svillata> close Issue-61
14:36:11 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-61 remove membershipSubject.
14:36:23 <svillata> Topic: open issues
14:36:32 <bblfish> Issue-26?
14:36:32 <trackbot> ISSUE-26 -- creation model for LDP -- open
14:36:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/26
14:36:36 <svillata> Arnaud: proposal close Issue-26
14:37:11 <svillata> Arnaud: suggested to put it in the wish list, and close Issue-26
14:37:19 <svillata> ... any problem with this?
14:38:05 <svillata> ashok: what are we closing? what are we not specifying now?
14:38:18 <roger> +q
14:39:03 <svillata> ashok: do we have an open issue on how do we create a container?
14:39:43 <svillata> Arnaud: the answer I believe the spec is silent about how to create a container, you can create a container as you create the other resources
14:40:39 <Arnaud> ack roger
14:40:41 <nmihindu> Issue-36?
14:40:41 <trackbot> ISSUE-36 -- Can applications create new containers? -- closed
14:40:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/36
14:40:42 <sandro> Where I'm stuck is how you know whether a particular container will look at the POSTed content to see if it should make a subcontainer.    We need a way to say what stuff is looked for in POST.
14:40:58 <JohnArwe> IIRC we have talked about capturing that answer in some of the non-Rec-track documents (primer/whatever) to keep it clear what's part of the normative content vs what's an implication of the normative content.
14:41:02 <sandro> (aka affordances.)
14:41:25 <svillata> Roger: I'm not talking about create a container inside a container
14:42:53 <svillata> Arnaud: the editors have an action item to specify how to create containers in the spec
14:42:54 <roger> I mean containers as 'siblings' of other containers ...
14:43:39 <svillata> Proposed: close issue 26
14:43:47 <Arnaud> PROPOSAL: Close ISSUE-26: Creation model for LDP as is, add it to the wishlist for LDP.next
14:43:51 <TallTed> what's the open action?
14:44:01 <bblfish> +1 issue-26 is incredibly vague
14:44:08 <roger> +1
14:44:09 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:44:09 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
14:44:09 <sergio> +1
14:44:10 <sandro> +1
14:44:15 <rgarcia> +1
14:44:16 <mielvds1> +1
14:44:20 <cody> cody has joined #ldp
14:44:22 <nmihindu> +1
14:44:24 <svillata> Arnaud: no action on the tracker, it's issue-26
14:44:26 <stevebattle> +1
14:44:26 <bblfish> q?
14:44:26 <krp> +1
14:44:27 <cody> +1
14:44:29 <svillata> +1
14:44:51 <Ashok> +1 as long as isse-36 remains open
14:45:18 <cody> You mean providing 36 is reopened?
14:45:23 <JohnArwe> roger's sibling example: using the existing spec example (net-worth has 2 containers, assets and liabilities), how would roger create a 3rd container within the net-worth resource?
14:45:33 <svillata> Issue-36 is closed at the moment
14:45:34 <Arnaud> action: steve to propose text clarifying the creation of container, per resolution of issue-36
14:45:34 <trackbot> 'steve' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., sspeiche, sbattle2).
14:45:39 <TallTed> +1 pending action creation and association with both issues (reviewing action completion will inform whether a new issue is needed... and clarity of that issue)
14:45:45 <TallTed> Zakim, mute me
14:45:45 <Zakim> TallTed should now be muted
14:45:46 <Arnaud> action: steves to propose text clarifying the creation of container, per resolution of issue-36
14:45:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-55 - Propose text clarifying the creation of container, per resolution of issue-36 [on Steve Speicher - due 2013-05-06].
14:45:49 <JohnArwe> +1 move issue-26 to ldp.next
14:45:53 <Ashok> Ah!  thanks, Cody!
14:46:13 <Arnaud> resolved: Close ISSUE-26: Creation model for LDP as is, add it to the wishlist for LDP.next
14:46:14 <svillata> RESOLVED: Issue-26
14:46:37 <bblfish> Issue-59?
14:46:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-59 -- Reconsider usage of Aggregate/Composite construct to get predictable container delete behavior -- open
14:46:37 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59
14:46:37 <sergio> issue-59?
14:46:37 <trackbot> ISSUE-59 -- Reconsider usage of Aggregate/Composite construct to get predictable container delete behavior -- open
14:46:38 <svillata> Issue-59
14:46:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59
14:46:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-59 -- Reconsider usage of Aggregate/Composite construct to get predictable container delete behavior -- open
14:46:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/59
14:47:20 <svillata> Arnaud: we revert to the original spec, when you delete a container there is no guarantee, you delete the content too
14:47:21 <roger> @JohnArwe, I am opening a issue on this now.
14:47:33 <roger> i.e. about the siblings
14:47:38 <svillata> ... I put together a new proposal based on bblfish one
14:48:15 <svillata> ...you have the members, and then when you delete the container you delete these members only, and not the others
14:48:18 <bblfish> Arnaud is summarising http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2013Apr/0123.html
14:49:34 <svillata> Arnaud: A) we have one container, B) we get rid of the two types of container, C) we stick with what we have
14:49:57 <stevebattle> 1,0,0
14:49:57 <sandro> A (I think)
14:50:04 <sergio> +1 A
14:50:06 <pchampin> A
14:50:06 <Yves> A
14:50:07 <cody> A (leaning towards)
14:50:10 <rgarcia> A
14:50:11 <roger> A
14:50:11 <svillata> A
14:50:27 <sergio> q+
14:50:29 <mielvds1> A
14:50:32 <JohnArwe> I think the difference between A and B is whether or not clients can "introspect" which member resources the server will delete if the container is deleted.
14:50:34 <Ashok> B
14:50:37 <nmihindu> A
14:50:40 <TallTed> A +0.5  B +1.0  C -1.0
14:50:54 <AndyS> Currently: A
14:51:07 <JohnArwe> +1, +0, -0.5
14:51:33 <svillata> Arnaud: A also implies we do not do a recursive deletion automatically
14:51:43 <krp> +0.8 A
14:51:44 <sergio> A: +1, B: -0.5, C: -1
14:51:45 <svillata> ... we have two different delete operations
14:51:57 <svillata> ... there are also other options we can invent
14:52:05 <sergio> q?
14:52:14 <svillata> ... Does anybody object to option A?
14:52:16 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:52:16 <Zakim> TallTed should no longer be muted
14:53:41 <Zakim> -AndyS
14:53:44 <sergio> bye AndyS
14:53:44 <AndyS> AndyS has left #ldp
14:54:31 <svillata> Arnaud: personally I prefer option B, it addresses the main issue
14:54:48 <TallTed> Zakim, unmute me
14:54:48 <Zakim> TallTed was not muted, TallTed
14:54:53 <bblfish> A: 0 B: +1.0 C
14:55:21 <svillata> q?
14:55:42 <Arnaud> ack sergio
14:56:19 <svillata> sergio: we should do the same as for the resources
14:57:15 <svillata> Arnaud: objections to option A?
14:57:29 <Arnaud> proposal: close issue-59, with option A
14:57:34 <stevebattle> +1
14:57:37 <roger> +1
14:57:38 <svillata> +1
14:57:41 <cody> +1
14:57:41 <pchampin> +1
14:57:42 <JohnArwe> +1
14:57:44 <sergio> +1 amending 3rd point
14:58:02 <sandro> +1
14:58:04 <nmihindu> +1
14:58:14 <TallTed> +0
14:58:18 <svillata> Arnaud: we can do something more robust in the future, as TallTed says
14:58:21 <rgarcia> +1
14:58:39 <krp> +1
14:58:56 <svillata> close Issue-59
14:58:56 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-59 Reconsider usage of Aggregate/Composite construct to get predictable container delete behavior.
14:59:02 <mielvds1> +1
14:59:42 <Arnaud> resolved: close issue-59, with option A
15:00:42 <stevebattle> bye
15:00:43 <Zakim> -bblfish
15:00:48 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
15:01:45 <svillata> bye
15:01:45 <Zakim> -cody
15:01:47 <Zakim> -TallTed
15:01:48 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
15:01:49 <Zakim> -krp.a
15:01:50 <cody> cody has left #ldp
15:01:50 <Zakim> -roger
15:01:50 <Zakim> -SteveBattle
15:01:51 <Zakim> -sergio
15:01:51 <Zakim> -svillata
15:01:51 <Zakim> -rgarcia
15:01:52 <Zakim> -mielvds1
15:01:54 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:01:55 <Zakim> -nmihindu
15:01:55 <Zakim> -pchampin
15:01:57 <Zakim> -Yves
15:03:59 <Zakim> -Sandro
15:07:48 <mielvds> mielvds has joined #ldp
15:09:00 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, krp, in SW_LDP()10:00AM
15:09:02 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
15:09:02 <Zakim> Attendees were SteveBattle, Sandro, pchampin, cody, JohnArwe, +329331aaaa, Arnaud, mielvds1, rgarcia, Ashok_Malhotra, sergio, AndyS, bblfish, nmihindu, roger, svillata, TallTed,
15:09:02 <Zakim> ... Yves, krp
15:15:45 <mielvds> mielvds has left #ldp
17:04:44 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ldp
17:41:35 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp
17:57:32 <davidwood> davidwood has joined #ldp
18:40:12 <jmv> jmv has joined #ldp
19:12:57 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #ldp