14:38:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:38:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/25-prov-irc
14:38:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:38:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #prov
14:38:26 <Luc> Zakim, this will be PROV
14:38:26 <Zakim> ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
14:38:26 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be PROV
14:38:27 <trackbot> Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:38:27 <trackbot> Date: 25 April 2013
14:38:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 22 minutes
14:38:36 <Luc> Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.04.25
14:38:47 <Luc> Chair: Luc Moreau
14:38:57 <Luc> Scribe: Paolo Missier
14:39:04 <Luc> rrsagent, make logs public
14:39:27 <Luc> Regrets: Curt Tilmes
14:55:40 <smiles> smiles has joined #prov
14:56:41 <pgroth> pgroth has joined #prov
14:56:41 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:56:48 <Zakim> +??P25
14:56:57 <smiles> zakim, ??P25 is me
14:56:57 <Zakim> +smiles; got it
14:57:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:57:26 <pgroth> Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:57:26 <Zakim> +pgroth; got it
14:57:49 <Paoo> Paoo has joined #prov
14:58:04 <Zakim> +Jutta
14:58:22 <Paolo> Paolo has joined #prov
14:59:33 <Zakim> + +44.238.059.aaaa
14:59:47 <CraigTrim> CraigTrim has joined #prov
14:59:48 <Luc> zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
14:59:48 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
15:00:13 <Luc> hi paolo, everything is set up. Are you still ok to scribe?
15:00:18 <Zakim> + +1.661.382.aabb
15:00:27 <jcheney> jcheney has joined #prov
15:00:30 <CraigTrim> zakim, +aabb is me
15:00:30 <Zakim> sorry, CraigTrim, I do not recognize a party named '+aabb'
15:00:52 <Zakim> +jcheney
15:00:55 <Luc> zakim, who is here?
15:00:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see smiles, pgroth, Jutta, Luc, +1.661.382.aabb, jcheney
15:00:56 <tlebo> tlebo has joined #prov
15:00:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see jcheney, CraigTrim, Paolo, pgroth, smiles, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, TallTed, stain, GK-ALT, trackbot
15:01:10 <CraigTrim> Zakim, aabb is me
15:01:10 <Zakim> +CraigTrim; got it
15:01:15 <hook> hook has joined #prov
15:01:16 <Zakim> -smiles
15:01:20 <Zakim> + +1.315.330.aacc
15:01:30 <tlebo> zakim, I am aacc
15:01:33 <Zakim> +tlebo; got it
15:01:57 <dgarijo> dgarijo has joined #prov
15:02:04 <zednik> zednik has joined #prov
15:02:05 <Zakim> + +1.818.731.aadd
15:02:08 <Luc> topic: admin
15:02:17 <Luc> proposed: approve last week's minutes
15:02:21 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:02:24 <Luc> https://www.w3.org/2013/meeting/prov/2013-04-18
15:02:28 <christine> christine has joined #prov
15:02:31 <Zakim> +??P38
15:02:33 <Zakim> +??P37
15:02:35 <Paolo> +1
15:02:39 <CraigTrim> +1
15:02:40 <dgarijo> Zakim, ??P38 is me
15:02:40 <Zakim> +dgarijo; got it
15:02:42 <jcheney> +1
15:02:43 <dgarijo> +1
15:02:43 <hook> +1
15:02:47 <christine> Zakim, ??P38 is christine
15:02:47 <Zakim> I already had ??P38 as dgarijo, christine
15:02:48 <smiles> +1
15:02:58 <Dong> Dong has joined #prov
15:03:03 <christine> Zakim, ??P37 is christine
15:03:03 <Zakim> +christine; got it
15:03:13 <Luc> ACCEPTED:  last week's minutes
15:03:14 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:03:26 <Luc> topic: status
15:03:34 <khalidBelhajjame> khalidBelhajjame has joined #prov
15:03:56 <dgarijo> :)
15:03:57 <pgroth> q+
15:04:06 <Paolo> Luc: pub request sent to webmaster, all docs are now ready for publication.
15:04:10 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
15:04:20 <Luc> q?
15:04:23 <khalidBelhajjame> zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me
15:04:24 <Zakim> +khalidBelhajjame; got it
15:04:31 <Paolo> Luc: editors can find their docs at their final location if they need tomake final-final (final) check
15:04:53 <Paolo> pgroth: last minute changes to provenance of docs
15:04:59 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:05:08 <Luc> ack pg
15:05:09 <Paolo> Luc: can still ask for minor changes
15:05:23 <Zakim> +??P0
15:05:32 <Paolo> pgroth: issue was that rel link was missing
15:05:51 <zednik> rel link will need to be added to PROV-XML as well
15:05:53 <pgroth> :-) :-)
15:05:57 <Dong> Zakim, ??P0 is me
15:05:57 <Zakim> +Dong; got it
15:06:00 <Luc> topic: Provenance Working Group End Date
15:06:04 <dgarijo> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-prov-dc-20130430/ ----> 404 :(((
15:06:05 <Paolo> Luc: this means we have finished our job!
15:06:39 <Zakim> +Satya_Sahoo
15:06:49 <satya> satya has joined #prov
15:06:55 <pgroth> @zednik - you need to inform ivan
15:07:07 <Paolo> zednik: there is currently no link to prov of XML note -- this will be done shortly
15:07:08 <zednik> @pgroth, thanks
15:07:30 <pgroth> @zednik you need to tell ivan to do the redirect
15:07:32 <Paolo> Luc: @dgarijo should be 2013, not 2012
15:07:39 <TomDN> TomDN has joined #prov
15:07:41 <dgarijo> ahhhhh thanks. I just took it from the email :P
15:07:43 <Zakim> +TomDN
15:07:46 <dgarijo> it works
15:07:50 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
15:07:50 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
15:08:03 <Luc> q?
15:08:05 <SamCoppens> SamCoppens has joined #prov
15:08:06 <Paolo> Luc: final tidy up job with pgroth to be completed soon
15:08:08 <smiles> Fine by me
15:08:12 <Paolo> Luc: feedback?
15:08:17 <pgroth> q+
15:08:26 <Luc> q?
15:08:30 <SamCoppens> zakim, I am with TomDN
15:08:30 <Zakim> +SamCoppens; got it
15:09:12 <pgroth> yeah we need help :-)
15:09:20 <Luc> ack pg
15:09:35 <Paolo> Luc: correct, Luc and pgroth actually looking for help for the remaining tasks
15:09:48 <smiles> I can do something next week, but am not available the week after
15:09:54 <satya> what are the tasks?
15:10:25 <pgroth> agreed
15:10:26 <Paolo> pgroth: do we still need calls?
15:10:34 <pgroth> satya asks a good question
15:11:15 <Paolo> Luc: decisions on scheduling remaining work and deciding on end date are circular ...
15:11:17 <pgroth> I would say May 16
15:11:50 <Luc> q?
15:12:09 <Paolo> pgroth: remaining tasks are indicated in the agenda
15:12:16 <pgroth> good with me
15:12:27 <Luc> topic: provenance of documents
15:12:39 <Paolo> Luc: task: provenance of documents
15:13:03 <Paolo> Luc: editors make sure there is a link to prov in their docs, and that such provenance has content
15:13:05 <Luc> https://raw.github.com/lucmoreau/ProvToolbox/newschema/prov-n/src/test/resources/prov/prov-family.provn
15:13:38 <pgroth> I will use it for prov-overview and prov-aq
15:13:54 <Paolo> Luc: the link above should cover most docs. Asking editors what they intend to do
15:14:26 <Paolo> dgarijo: prov-dc:  added statements to provenance of prov-dc
15:14:47 <TomDN> how would that work with the staged documents with their has_provenance url? redirect all the urls to the same provenance file?
15:15:01 <Paolo> dgarijo: going to use whatever prov doc is more complete
15:15:04 <pgroth> @TomDN yes that sounds good
15:15:50 <Paolo> Luc: @dgarijo  please check that the prov family file is correct from your POV
15:15:55 <pgroth> probably zednick
15:16:33 <tlebo> @zednick, that goes to https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/provenance right?
15:16:36 <Paolo> zednik: prov file is in turtle atm. using own prov file for prov-XML
15:16:59 <pgroth> @tlebo it should go in something like prov-xml.ttl in that directory
15:17:01 <Paolo> zednik: will check prov family file and make sure it is correct for prov-xml
15:17:35 <Paolo> jcheney: prov-family looks file for both prov-constraints and prov-sem
15:17:43 <Paolo> s/file/fine
15:18:00 <Paolo> pgroth: will use prov-family for prov-AQ and prov-overview
15:18:04 <Dong> Provenance for prov-implementations (www.w3.org/2011/prov/provenance/prov-implementations) has been linked to the staged document.
15:18:13 <Paolo> pgroth: requested one change for prov-AQ
15:18:27 <Dong> I've check the prov-family file for prov-implementations part. All is good.
15:18:37 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
15:18:37 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
15:18:48 <Paolo> TomDN: will use prov-family
15:18:59 <Paolo> TomDN: content seems fine
15:19:03 <Dong> I'm also happy to use the prov-family file as well, but not sure how.
15:19:06 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
15:19:06 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
15:19:23 <Paolo> smiles: checked prov-family, fine and will be used
15:19:31 <Paolo> smiles: for prov-primer
15:19:38 <tlebo> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/file/tip/provenance/prov-o.ttl
15:19:58 <Paolo> tlebo: prov-o has been updating its own file, would like to tie it into the prov-family
15:20:07 <Paolo> tlebo: is there a prov-o version of it?
15:20:15 <Paolo> Luc: yes, coming up
15:20:36 <Paolo> tlebo: if there is an RDF version then will blend own with prov-family
15:20:55 <Paolo> tlebo: not yet reviewed prov-family  for content
15:21:09 <pgroth> q+
15:21:15 <Paolo> Luc: prov-family does not conver prov-implementation
15:21:18 <pgroth> what?
15:21:21 <Luc> poor quality!
15:21:26 <Paolo> Dong:  (can't hear, sorry)
15:21:31 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
15:21:37 <pgroth> q+
15:21:43 <pgroth> maybe I can talk
15:21:49 <Paolo> @dong: can you please type
15:22:24 <Dong> You already have information on prov-implementations in the prov-family file
15:22:31 <Dong> I'm happy to use it
15:22:34 <Paolo> pgroth: should use prov-family for prov-implementation
15:22:39 <pgroth> sorry
15:22:53 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:23:25 <Paolo> Luc: prov-xml, prov-o, prov-dc will have their own provenance, others will use prov-family
15:24:00 <Luc> q?
15:24:03 <Paolo> Luc: RDF generated by toolbox from prov-n not very friendly, also some comments will be lost. Looking for human editors of the generated prov-o
15:24:36 <stain> cwm can make it quite pretty
15:24:57 <Paolo> Luc: rdf is correct but not very tidy.
15:25:08 <Paolo> tlebo: offering to look at it
15:25:29 <Luc> q?
15:25:43 <Paolo> Luc: anyone keen to look at the generated XML file? may require some editing after gen
15:25:52 <pgroth> maybe one of the xml guys?
15:26:08 <Paolo> zednik: will do
15:26:41 <Paolo> Luc: will upload suitable version of prov-family to hg, then gen xml and rdf and send it on
15:26:41 <Luc> q?
15:26:47 <pgroth> q+
15:28:03 <Luc> q?
15:28:08 <pgroth> ack pgroth
15:28:10 <Luc> ack pg
15:28:11 <Paolo> pgroth: will use redirect to separate the prov files for the different docs (modulo format)
15:28:23 <Luc> Topic: Finalizing /ns
15:29:31 <Paolo> tlebo: on OWL file: updating old scripts -- will require some time
15:29:48 <pgroth> q+
15:30:01 <Paolo> tlebo: need offline discussion to figure out what needs to be done
15:30:19 <Paolo> Luc: need proper OWL files for pub on Tue
15:30:42 <Luc> ack pg
15:31:17 <Paolo> pgroth: each doc where new terms are defined need to supply them into the "namespace" dir, supplied as Turtle
15:31:53 <Paolo> pgroth: will email to clarify what needs to be done
15:32:57 <TomDN> PROV-Dictionary owl is at http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-dictionary-20130430/prov-dictionary.owl
15:33:03 <Luc> @tlebo, could you write the ttl file for prov-links
15:33:54 <Paolo> Luc: there is pressure to have the content of the file by Tue
15:35:30 <TomDN> I see
15:35:40 <Paolo> Luc: we agreed not to have schema/owl files in the TR dir, because they are frozen
15:35:43 <TomDN> yes
15:35:46 <stain> I think it's OK that there IS an OWL file there as long as it's not the one pointed to :)
15:35:50 <tlebo> @luc, yes, I'll lead the owl portions of links.
15:35:54 <Paolo> pgroth: but where do these point to?
15:36:01 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
15:36:01 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
15:36:06 <TomDN> +q
15:37:05 <Paolo> pgroth: all files should be in ns
15:37:34 <Paolo> pgroth: the copy in TR should not be pointed to in the doc
15:37:47 <Paolo> Luc: those copies should be removed
15:38:05 <Luc> q?
15:38:13 <Paolo> Luc: they make create confusion in the future
15:38:27 <TomDN> will do for prov-dict
15:38:57 <Paolo> Luc: @TomDN please make the change
15:39:04 <Paolo> TomDN: will do for prov-dictionary
15:39:39 <Luc> q?
15:39:46 <Luc> ack to
15:40:03 <TomDN> +q
15:40:40 <TomDN> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-dictionary-20130430/#dictionary-xml-schema
15:40:47 <Paolo> TomDN: just checked the link, the schema is in TR for prov-XML?
15:41:10 <TomDN> http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/NOTE-prov-xml-20130430/schema/prov-core.xsd
15:42:23 <Paolo> Luc: @ TomDN @ zednik need to make your changes
15:42:52 <Paolo> zednik: where should the schema directory go?
15:42:59 <Luc> q?
15:43:00 <Paolo> (sorry lost audio)
15:44:03 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
15:44:03 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
15:44:10 <dgarijo> for the moment everything is done via Ivan
15:45:24 <TomDN> ok, I'll do it right after the call
15:45:56 <Paolo> brb
15:46:01 <Zakim> -Jutta
15:46:20 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aaa]
15:46:38 <Luc> q?
15:46:42 <Paolo> (back)
15:46:52 <TomDN> Zakim, unmute me
15:46:52 <Zakim> TomDN should no longer be muted
15:46:53 <Luc> ack to
15:47:10 <TomDN> Zakim, mute me
15:47:10 <Zakim> TomDN should now be muted
15:47:35 <Paolo> pgroth: should make a HTML version of our ns
15:47:54 <Paolo> pgroth: easier to do when we have the complete integrated version
15:48:58 <Paolo> pgroth: work on the HTML will not start immediately, would appreciate help on it
15:49:06 <tlebo> q+
15:49:23 <Paolo> Luc: anyone familiar with tools for ttl -> html?
15:49:36 <Luc> ack tl
15:49:46 <stain> I thought we were going to keep the HTML as it is now; as we don't know if you want an XML schema or ontology or what
15:50:15 <Paolo> pgroth: do we want a page with the actual defs for each term?
15:50:43 <pgroth> that was the idea
15:51:38 <Paolo> tlebo: converting ttl -> html should not be approach. instead reuse Luc's def. maker
15:51:40 <stain> for http://purl.org/pav/ I did a simple XSLT to just list the terms and have hyperlinks to where they are defined. But we would have terms from different serializations
15:51:42 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml/ just has links to the relevant recs and working group charters...
15:52:01 <Luc> http://www.w3.org/TR/prov-dm/#prov-dm-to-prov-o-and-prov-n
15:52:14 <Paolo> Luc: could this be a starting point
15:52:18 <Paolo> pgroth: yes
15:52:26 <Dong> Dong has joined #prov
15:52:49 <tlebo> q+
15:53:15 <pgroth> yes
15:53:37 <Paolo> tlebo: not the right way to go
15:54:21 <Paolo> Luc: did not mean that the table should be what we will have. but each line has essentially the links we need
15:54:55 <pgroth> ye[
15:54:56 <TomDN> @pgroth: so where do the files under /namespace end up? http://www.w3.org/ns/?
15:55:00 <Paolo> Luc: in addition to the classes, we also need properties, so more work to do
15:55:13 <Paolo> Luc: HTML ont starting until next week
15:55:16 <Paolo> pgroth: correct
15:55:23 <Paolo> s/ont/not
15:55:43 <christine> apologies - have to chair a call on the hour
15:55:48 <Luc> topic: Wiki
15:55:52 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
15:56:13 <Paolo> Luc: need to tidy up the prov wiki, and contribute to the semweb wiki
15:57:06 <Paolo> pgroth: on main prov wiki: need to clean up news and active topics.
15:57:42 <Paolo> pgroth: from semweb wiki  Remove outreach info, layout conventions...
15:57:44 <satya> sorry, I have to leave now
15:57:51 <Zakim> -Satya_Sahoo
15:57:56 <Paolo> Luc: who is taking the lead
15:58:21 <Paolo> Luc: will do an edit on tue to update elements on the front page
15:58:58 <Paolo> pgroth: (correction) will *move* Remove outreach info, layout conventions to semweb wiki from main prov wiki
15:59:26 <Paolo> pgroth: nothing will be deleted
16:00:00 <smiles> If there are specific things for the Wiki that you can pass to me, I can help (except for the week of May 4-10)
16:00:01 <Luc> q?
16:00:11 <tlebo> q-
16:00:11 <Luc> ack tl
16:00:21 <Luc> Topic: dissemination/announcement
16:00:43 <Paolo> Luc: any dissemination plans?
16:00:48 <dgarijo> I got a tutorial accepted in the DC conference in Lisbonne
16:00:59 <dgarijo> with Kai
16:01:01 <pgroth> there are two blog posts in the queue
16:01:04 <Paolo> Luc: will blog on the prov family page -- describing provenance of documents
16:01:09 <Paolo> Luc: after rec release
16:01:22 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]
16:01:54 <Paolo> pgroth: will post the blogs whenever more appropriate
16:02:39 <jcheney> q+
16:02:45 <Luc> q?
16:02:50 <Paolo> Paolo: I will give some of the EDBT tutorial to our School in an internal seminar
16:03:03 <pgroth> q?
16:03:08 <Luc> ack jc
16:03:49 <Paolo> jcheney: there was a outreach task force, should we call on that to report on the results of the WG?
16:04:08 <Luc> q?
16:04:14 <Paolo> Luc: should leaders of task force to go back to the original respondandts?
16:04:18 <jcheney> http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Connection_Task_Force_Informal_Report
16:04:53 <Luc> q?
16:05:06 <Paolo> Luc: contact the leaders of the dissemination task force
16:05:35 <Luc> q?
16:05:37 <khalidBelhajjame> bye
16:05:38 <Zakim> -tlebo
16:05:40 <Zakim> -pgroth
16:05:40 <Zakim> -jcheney
16:05:40 <pgroth> pgroth has left #prov
16:05:42 <Zakim> -khalidBelhajjame
16:05:42 <Zakim> -dgarijo
16:05:43 <Dong> bye all
16:05:48 <Zakim> -TomDN
16:05:49 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aaa]
16:05:55 <Zakim> - +1.818.731.aadd
16:06:01 <Zakim> -Luc
16:07:02 <Zakim> -christine
16:08:04 <Zakim> -CraigTrim
16:09:44 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
16:15:38 <Zakim> -Dong
16:15:39 <Zakim> SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
16:15:39 <Zakim> Attendees were smiles, pgroth, Jutta, Luc, +1.661.382.aabb, jcheney, CraigTrim, +1.315.330.aacc, tlebo, +1.818.731.aadd, [IPcaller], dgarijo, christine, khalidBelhajjame, Dong,
16:15:39 <Zakim> ... Satya_Sahoo, TomDN, SamCoppens