13:36:01 RRSAgent has joined #dap 13:36:01 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-irc 13:36:03 RRSAgent, make logs world 13:36:03 Zakim has joined #dap 13:36:05 Zakim, this will be DAP 13:36:05 ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 24 minutes 13:36:06 Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference 13:36:06 Date: 24 April 2013 13:36:29 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0056.html 13:36:49 fjh has changed the topic to: dap 3279 ; agenda http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0056.html 13:37:15 Chair: Frederick Hirsch 13:37:18 Present+ Frederick Hirsch 13:55:40 gmandyam has joined #dap 13:57:15 UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started 13:57:22 + +1.858.750.aaaa 13:57:46 Zakim, aaaa is gmandyam 13:57:46 +gmandyam; got it 13:58:19 +[IPcaller] 13:58:28 zakim, [IPcaller] is fjh 13:58:28 +fjh; got it 13:59:46 Bin_Hu has joined #dap 14:00:57 Clarke has joined #dap 14:01:18 Present: Giri_Mandyam 14:01:32 s/Present:/Present+/ 14:01:36 +Bin_Hu 14:01:38 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:01:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html fjh 14:02:07 +??P26 14:02:09 present+ Bin_Hu 14:02:20 zakim, ??P26 is me 14:02:20 +anssik; got it 14:02:26 Present+ Anssi_Kostiainen 14:02:40 + +1.720.934.aabb 14:03:08 zakim, where is 720? 14:03:08 North American dialing code 1.720 is Colorado 14:03:26 zakim, aabb is clark 14:03:26 +clark; got it 14:03:55 Present+ Clark_Stevens 14:04:43 ScribeNick: fjh 14:04:55 Topic: Welcome, agenda review, scribe selection, announcements 14:05:07 Reminder, June F2F has been canceled, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Mar/0035.html 14:05:17 Updated WD of Network Service Discovery has been published on 4 April, see http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-discovery-api-20130404/ 14:05:28 Media Capture TF update, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0000.html 14:05:39 Welcome to new DAP participants, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0016.html 14:05:51 No call next week on 1 May, next call is 8 May. 14:06:12 fjh: need to discuss status of WebIntents and Web Activities 14:06:28 Present+ Clarke_Stevens 14:06:37 fjh: would like to see this work happening transparently on public list and in the group rather than in private 14:06:54 Topic: Minutes approval 14:07:03 Approve minutes from 27 March 2013 14:07:03 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Mar/att-0034/minutes-2013-03-27.html 14:07:12 RESOLUTION: Minutes from 27 March 2013 are approved 14:07:35 Topic: CfC to move tests to Git 14:07:46 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0013.html 14:08:28 fjh: CfC ended 23 April, with indications of explicit support, so we can go ahead with this 14:08:35 RESOLUTION: Move DAP tests to Git per http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0011.htm4 14:09:07 action: dom to move DAP tests to Git, with help from others as needed 14:09:07 Created ACTION-625 - Move DAP tests to Git, with help from others as needed [on Dominique Hazaël-Massieux - due 2013-05-01]. 14:09:28 Topic: APIs 14:09:59 fjh: two items to talk about, one is specific feedback on specific APIs and other is general considerations related to APIs 14:10:21 Topic: Proximity Constructor 14:10:31 Constructor, http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0008.html 14:10:32 resolution - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0028.html 14:11:48 anssik: non-issue, defined in DOM specification, and terminology is up to date 14:12:10 anssik: asked anne if anything should be changed, no response, so this can be closed 14:12:19 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw-file/default/proximity/Overview.html#terminology 14:12:27 points to DOM4 14:12:41 http://dom.spec.whatwg.org/#constructing-events 14:13:03 gmandyam: working on image capture specification, think you need at minimum of type of event, so Anne comment seems to be valid 14:13:40 anssik: how to construct an event is defined in DOM4 14:13:50 s/DOM specification/DOM4 specification/ 14:13:55 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:13:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html fjh 14:15:27 Clarification: Based on my understanding of DOM4, the event has a mandatory constructor with a minimum arugment of DOMString type 14:15:58 action: anssik to update Proximity spec to clarify event constructor aspects 14:15:58 Created ACTION-626 - Update Proximity spec to clarify event constructor aspects [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2013-05-01]. 14:16:28 Topic: Proximity - Unrestricted double 14:16:38 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0009.html 14:16:38 resolution - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0027.html 14:16:42 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/diff/cf48e944bbad/light/Overview.src.html 14:16:53 anssik: fix completed 14:17:12 Topic: Vibration - Throw and Pause 14:17:20 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0020.html 14:17:40 anssik: idea is to change API yet not break existing implementations 14:18:00 anssik: replace exceptions and replace with return of boolean 14:18:07 ... simplifies development 14:18:35 ... sent a proposal, update to editors draft 14:18:51 fjh: does this apply to all APIs? 14:19:08 anssik: mozilla indicated that they can update implementation 14:20:07 fjh: to repeat what I heard, this simplifies error handling for async call, so if immediate error return false rather than using exceptions 14:20:11 anssik: correct 14:20:44 fjh: can we apply to other APIs 14:21:04 anssik: in DAP no other APIs use this mechanism 14:22:30 fjh: this should be documented for a general API design document so that we are consistent across W3C working groups, as one of the practices to follow 14:22:43 fjh: need to follow up where the general API design is documented 14:22:56 anssik: anne has good ideas regarding APIs 14:23:07 +q 14:23:08 fjh: we need this documented somewhere other than anne's head 14:23:26 ack gmandyam 14:23:38 fjh: believe it was Robin's document 14:23:49 http://darobin.github.io/api-design-cookbook/#exceptions 14:23:50 anssiK: cookbook 14:24:54 action: fjh to contact Robin about returning booleans versus exceptions for cookbook update 14:24:54 Created ACTION-627 - Contact Robin about returning booleans versus exceptions for cookbook update [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-05-01]. 14:25:56 gmandyam: re image capture, exceptions can be raised if synchronously detected 14:26:06 ... need to handle async differently 14:26:35 -gmandyam 14:26:46 fjh: anssi this change is in place, what next 14:26:50 +gmandyam 14:27:06 anssik: shared change on list, got feedback, made update, received more suggestions from Anne 14:27:27 -Bin_Hu 14:29:13 action: anssik to send email to list with final proposal to update the "processing vibration patterns" algorithm to return boolean instead of throwing 14:29:13 Created ACTION-628 - Send email to list with final proposal to update the "processing vibration patterns" algorithm to return boolean instead of throwing [on Anssi Kostiainen - due 2013-05-01]. 14:30:09 Topic: Vibration - Introduction clarification 14:30:19 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0052.html 14:30:37 s/tackle/address/ 14:31:04 anssik: feedback off list that this is fine, with change of 'tackle' to 'address', will update specification soon 14:31:18 got some LGTM responses off-the-list re intro update 14:31:36 Topic: Proximity & Light - two events 14:31:44 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0019.html 14:31:44 proposed resolution - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0043.html 14:32:25 anssiK: anne reviewed light and proposed we merge the two interfaces, for different granularity 14:32:39 ... one lux value , one string dim 14:32:56 fjh: these were to address two different use cases, right? 14:33:17 anssik: anne suggested that both be exposed on same interface, with one handler 14:33:24 ... support this change 14:33:50 ... only concern is that if interested in state only, will get extra events if lux value changes 14:34:36 fjh: is it really good to get extra events? 14:35:39 ... need to see if we have consensus 14:37:31 fjh: we need to distinguish handling use cases simply versus implementation detail, how important and different are the use cases? 14:39:20 -gmandyam 14:40:01 fjh: wonder if we really need the lux value at all, isn't the higher level approach enough (dim etc) 14:40:12 +gmandyam 14:40:13 fjh: can askt his on the list 14:40:13 -gmandyam 14:40:21 s/askt his/ask this/ 14:40:26 +gmandyam 14:42:04 Topic: Proximity & Light - Overall API comment 14:42:14 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0025.html 14:43:43 -gmandyam 14:43:47 -anssik 14:44:00 +gmandyam 14:44:08 -gmandyam 14:44:20 +??P8 14:44:22 +gmandyam 14:45:06 Clarke has joined #dap 14:45:18 fjh: this comment reflects discussion about the DAP APIs on a different list, about issues that we resolved earlier, apparently expressing concern whether we are doing the right thing across APIs 14:45:27 ... it might warrant another look 14:45:47 ... but we should not be reopening closed issues without new information 14:45:56 ... idea related to single sensor spec 14:46:54 fjh: we have made the decision we did to enable faster development, independent tracks and testing and simplicity 14:47:19 anssik: work is on an alternative proposal, should not block until we see an alternative specification 14:48:09 fjh: consensus on call is to continue with current work until new information such as an alternative proposal is presented 14:48:28 Topic: Network Service Discovery 14:48:33 prefix issue , http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0054.html (Jean-Claude) 14:48:40 fjh: await comment from Richt 14:48:52 Topic: Network Information API Comments 14:48:58 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0045.html 14:48:59 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Apr/0046.html 14:49:36 fjh: looks like nothing needs to be done here, please comment on list if something needs to be done 14:49:41 tobie has joined #dap 14:50:07 anssik: have additional discussion point. Talking to Mounir who talked with developers 14:50:20 anssik: desire to expose latency as well as bandwidth 14:50:30 fjh: who will make proposal? 14:51:13 anssik: i do not have time for this 14:51:34 fjh: if anyone can help, please volunteer on list 14:51:56 gmandyam: concern from developers on how well bandwidth is estimated, similar issue expected with latency 14:52:07 ... won't be useful unless commonality on how it is estimated 14:52:45 action: fjh to ask about latency and estimation mechanism for network information on DAP list 14:52:45 Created ACTION-629 - Ask about latency and estimation mechanism for network information on DAP list [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2013-05-01]. 14:52:56 Topic: DOM Futures 14:53:04 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2013Mar/0036.html 14:53:15 fjh: highlighting this in case you missed it 14:53:23 fjh: not clear that we should do this first 14:53:56 ... thoughts and comments welcome on list 14:55:16 fjh: see that it offers benefits in terms of composition etc we may consider for future work - what are testing implications or implementation support 14:55:27 anssik: do not want to change existing specs 14:55:34 fjh: that is one of the questions 14:56:15 gmandyam: too much risk 14:56:32 fjh: saw pushback discussion in media capture TF 14:57:15 gmandyam: SysApps is adopting this, some discussion at F2F, decided not applicable in sync interfaces 14:57:43 richt has joined #dap 14:57:47 ... do not seem to be uniformly applied 14:57:54 anssik: will look into it 14:58:59 fjh: what I am hearing is that we should defer this to new work unless convinced otherwise 14:59:05 -clark 14:59:33 gmandyam: need to consider how ubiquitous support for this is, not sure WebKit support is being used. 14:59:51 Topic: WebIntents 15:00:07 fjh: need to have new visibility and transparency into discussions 15:00:19 fjh: anyone aware of anything new? 15:00:21 silence 15:00:30 Topic: TPAC & F2F Planning 15:00:40 11-15 November is TPAC, in Shenzhen, China. 15:00:48 fjh: Should DAP plan to meet in China at TPAC? 15:00:55 fjh: too few on this call to decide 15:01:13 fjh: once consideration is possible joint meeting with SysApps 15:01:40 gmandyam: was suggested at SysApps F2F, perhaps 1/2 day to discuss areas of overlaps 15:01:52 fjh: it comes down to whether DAP will have enough work to justify a F2F 15:02:20 gmandyam: lots could change in six months, but currently do not see items to justify F2F, personally 15:02:23 fjh: understood 15:02:38 Topic: Action item review 15:02:46 ACTION-446? 15:02:46 ACTION-446 -- Frederick Hirsch to review security issue http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2011Aug/0006.html -- due 2011-08-24 -- OPEN 15:02:46 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/446 15:02:56 fjh: this may be moot 15:03:05 ACTION-523? 15:03:05 ACTION-523 -- Anssi Kostiainen to work on test cases for battery, vibration, and HTML Media Capture -- due 2012-08-31 -- OPEN 15:03:05 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/523 15:03:18 anssik: still working on this 15:03:32 ACTION-591? 15:03:32 ACTION-591 -- Greg Billock to work with Mounir and James to create new webintents draft that reflects web activities and issues -- due 2013-03-29 -- OPEN 15:03:32 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/591 15:03:45 fjh: we need an update on this 15:03:49 ACTION-621? 15:03:49 ACTION-621 -- Anssi Kostiainen to create test cases for HTML Media Capture -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN 15:03:49 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/621 15:03:55 ACTION-622? 15:03:55 ACTION-622 -- Frederick Hirsch to follow up on concrete actions based on PING input -- due 2013-03-13 -- OPEN 15:03:55 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/622 15:04:02 ACTION-624? 15:04:02 ACTION-624 -- Richard Tibbett to prepare WD of Network Service Discovery for publication, including link and validity checks -- due 2013-03-27 -- OPEN 15:04:02 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/actions/624 15:04:28 ACTION-624: Updated WD of Network Service Discovery has been published on 4 April, see http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-discovery-api-20130404/ 15:04:29 Notes added to ACTION-624 Prepare WD of Network Service Discovery for publication, including link and validity checks. 15:04:34 close ACTION-624 15:04:34 Closed ACTION-624 Prepare WD of Network Service Discovery for publication, including link and validity checks. 15:04:44 fjh: close pending items 15:04:52 close ACTION-474 15:04:52 Closed ACTION-474 Make a proposal for Network Information API. 15:05:16 close ACTION-623 15:05:16 Closed ACTION-623 Prepare transition request for HTML Media Capture. 15:05:33 Topic: Issue review 15:05:39 issue-127? 15:05:39 ISSUE-127 -- Status section of Battery CR draft should include exit criteria and at-risk items -- open 15:05:39 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/127 15:05:44 ISSUE-128? 15:05:44 ISSUE-128 -- Need more description on how bandwidth should be estimated -- open 15:05:44 http://www.w3.org/2009/dap/track/issues/128 15:05:57 Topic: Other Business 15:06:15 None 15:06:23 No call next week on 1 May, next call is 8 May. 15:06:30 Topic: Adjourn 15:06:48 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:06:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:08:04 -gmandyam 15:08:05 -fjh 15:08:05 -??P8 15:08:07 UW_DAP()10:00AM has ended 15:08:07 Attendees were +1.858.750.aaaa, gmandyam, fjh, Bin_Hu, anssik, +1.720.934.aabb, clark 15:08:28 Present- Clark_Stevens 15:08:59 s/+q// 15:09:41 s/string dim/string, e.g. dim/ 15:10:15 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:10:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html fjh 15:16:09 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:16:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html fjh 16:02:43 tobie has joined #dap 16:42:48 Zakim has left #dap 17:00:21 tobie has joined #dap 18:51:43 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html ted 18:51:59 ted has left #dap 19:15:12 ted has joined #dap 19:15:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 19:15:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/24-dap-minutes.html ted 19:32:15 ted has joined #dap