20:58:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:58:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-irc
20:58:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:58:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
20:58:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:58:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)5:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
20:58:19 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:58:19 <trackbot> Date: 18 April 2013
20:58:50 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)5:00PM has now started
20:58:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:59:03 <Zakim> + +1.425.373.aaaa
20:59:05 <birtles> Zakim, IPcaller is me
20:59:05 <Zakim> +birtles; got it
20:59:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:59:27 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
20:59:27 <Zakim> +ed; got it
21:00:03 <Zakim> +Krit
21:00:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:00:40 <heycam> Zakim, [ is me
21:00:40 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
21:00:57 <heycam> Chair: Cameron
21:01:00 <heycam> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013AprJun/0077.html
21:01:14 <heycam> Regrets: Tav, Rich
21:01:22 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:01:28 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
21:01:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see birtles, +1.425.373.aaaa, ed, Krit, heycam, [IPcaller]
21:01:37 <cabanier> zakim, +[IPcaller] is me
21:01:37 <Zakim> sorry, cabanier, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
21:01:51 <cabanier> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
21:01:51 <Zakim> +cabanier; got it
21:02:06 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
21:04:01 <cabanier> scribenick: cabanier
21:04:16 <cabanier> topic: being the telecon 30 min earlier
21:04:26 <cabanier> krit: fine with me
21:04:41 <cabanier> heycam: we should start that next week
21:04:47 <cabanier> … can we resolve that
21:04:50 <cabanier> all: sounds good
21:05:16 <cabanier> resolution: we will start telecon 30min earlier (1:30PT)
21:05:47 <cabanier> action: heycam to change the telecon bridge time changed
21:05:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3487 - Change the telecon bridge time changed [on Cameron McCormack - due 2013-04-25].
21:05:56 <birtles> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?month=04&day=25&year=2013&hour=20&min=30&sec=0&p1=0
21:06:06 <cabanier> topic: meeting at TPAC
21:06:15 <cabanier> heycam: we already decided we would do that
21:06:33 <heycam> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013AprJun/0063.html
21:06:34 <cabanier> … for our third f2f. there was a note sent to the chairs
21:07:02 <cabanier> … in this email. one note was if we wanted a 3 day meeting instead of a 2 day one
21:07:23 <cabanier> … my feeling is that 2 days is cramped especially if we meet other team
21:07:48 <cabanier> krit: an extra day will likely conflict
21:07:57 <cabanier> heycam: I'm not sure when the extra day is
21:08:22 <cabanier> krit: we have too many conflicts with other working groups
21:08:45 <cabanier> heycam: yes, I noticed that too. Tokyo and TPAC are taken up with joint meeting with CSS
21:08:55 <cabanier> … we should consider that for later meetings
21:09:15 <cabanier> … I can ask the organizers when this extra day would be
21:09:31 <cabanier> … monday-tuesday is wg meetings at tpac
21:09:57 <cabanier> … third day would be thursday or friday. This might overlap with other groups
21:10:29 <cabanier> krit: let's ask first and decide afterward
21:11:17 <cabanier> shepazu: we could resolve that the 3 days if there are no conflicts otherwise we'll have 2
21:11:24 <cabanier> krit: that's fine with me
21:11:45 <cabanier> heycam: css is going to be the big one. We will want joint and separate time
21:11:50 <cabanier> shepazu: also webapps
21:12:36 <cabanier> heycam: is the feeling that we don't want the third day if it overlaps other groups?
21:12:49 <cabanier> … we don't know how we're going to be scheduled.
21:13:02 <cabanier> shepazu: you can ask what their plans are.
21:13:13 <cabanier> … we can ask for 3 days and see if we can use them
21:14:15 <cabanier> action: heycam to respond to the TPAC questionnaire
21:14:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3488 - Respond to the TPAC questionnaire [on Cameron McCormack - due 2013-04-25].
21:14:41 <cabanier> heycam: we need to say what groups we want to join up with
21:15:12 <cabanier> shepazu: it would be good to meet with CSS and HTML
21:16:26 <cabanier> topic: responsibilities for the test suite
21:16:48 <cabanier> krit: ???
21:17:08 <cabanier> heycam: what we discussed was splitting the spec in sections and assign it to people
21:17:19 <cabanier> krit: I will take masking and filters
21:17:31 <cabanier> heycam: we need to make sure that we have tests for new stuff
21:17:48 <cabanier> … I think that was blocked on me assigning this to people
21:18:11 <cabanier> … also I need to sort out the shepard installation
21:18:31 <cabanier> … we can check in test to the repository without the setup though
21:18:47 <cabanier> … I will move that action higher on my todo list
21:19:13 <cabanier> … does anything else need to be done?
21:19:18 <cabanier> krit: just write the tests
21:19:30 <cabanier> heycam: I think we want the existing tests in the right shape
21:20:08 <cabanier> … I also want to write a script to convert the test to the new template that works with shepard
21:20:17 <cabanier> … it might be good if I do that as well
21:20:35 <cabanier> … and add it to the repository and then assign it to people
21:21:35 <cabanier> krit: we have tests in webkit and mozilla.. Maybe we can reuse them in the new testsuite
21:22:33 <cabanier> heycam: are you planning to move the SVG 1.1 masking and filters tests to the FX repository where the specs live
21:22:43 <cabanier> krit: we can leave them in SVG for now
21:23:04 <cabanier> … at some point they will be in shepard so they will be all in the same repository
21:23:11 <cabanier> heycam: do you already have some tests?
21:23:14 <cabanier> krit: yes
21:23:16 <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aabb
21:23:21 <Zakim> -Krit
21:23:41 <cabanier> heycam: I will do the migration of the test and then mail out the plan
21:24:28 <cabanier> topic: what to do with features with SVG1.1 that are not interoperable or implement
21:24:43 <cabanier> krit: for SVG2 we want to follow the W3C spec
21:25:03 <cabanier> … do we already have a list of these missing features
21:25:15 <cabanier> heycam: you want to see a list of features?
21:25:35 <cabanier> krit: if there is a feature that is not implemented by 2 browsers?
21:25:59 <cabanier> heycam: you can mark it as at-risk and remove it.
21:26:25 <cabanier> cabanier: This is a 'should' not a 'must'?
21:26:45 <krit> krit has joined #svg
21:26:52 <cabanier> shepazu: what are you saying?
21:27:05 <ed> s/browsers/user agents/
21:27:11 <cabanier> heycam: should we drop non-interoperable or missing features?
21:28:34 <cabanier> thomas: from boeing, text-link is something that we were wondering why it was never implemented
21:28:44 <cabanier> … we are wondering what would replace it
21:28:50 <ed> textLength?
21:29:04 <cabanier> … it is of critical importance to us
21:29:12 <ed> that's implemented by more than 2 user agents AFAIK
21:29:47 <cabanier> shepazu: that's an interesting case.
21:29:51 <cabanier> … we can write tests
21:30:02 <cabanier> … so people support it and correctly
21:30:16 <cabanier> … I know Cameron wants to support it for Firefox
21:30:22 <cabanier> heycam: there is no opposition.
21:30:39 <cabanier> thomas: we need to control the exact position of text elements
21:30:55 <cabanier> heycam: I wonder if the advent of web fonts negates the problem
21:31:07 <cabanier> … it might be interesting see what problem you're trying to solve
21:31:21 <cabanier> thomas: I need to be able to control where the test is render
21:31:57 <cabanier> … a wiring diagram with a wire and you put a label. You need the text to be right in the middle.
21:32:18 <cabanier> shepazu: maybe connectors will solve the problem?
21:33:25 <krit> Zakim, who is on the call?
21:33:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see birtles, +1.425.373.aaaa, ed, heycam, cabanier, Doug_Schepers, +1.415.832.aabb
21:33:38 <krit> Zakim, .415.832 is me
21:33:38 <Zakim> sorry, krit, I do not recognize a party named '.415.832'
21:33:48 <cabanier> heycam: we could decide if certain features won't make the cut
21:33:48 <krit> Zakim, aabb is me
21:33:49 <Zakim> +krit; got it
21:33:59 <cabanier> … especially if otherwise we have to write test to drop them
21:34:09 <cabanier> … we can discuss particular features
21:34:20 <cabanier> … is that OK with you dirk?
21:35:16 <cabanier> … if we know that there are features that we know ahead of time will be cut, we can remove
21:35:49 <ed> http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/svg/text-text-01-b.svg - test data: passed by 4 independent implementations - http://dev.w3.org/SVG/profiles/1.1F2/test/status/implementation_matrix.html
21:35:54 <ed> that's for textLength
21:36:24 <Zakim> -heycam
21:38:03 <cabanier> topic: Test the web forward attendees / topics
21:38:25 <cabanier> krit: is someone attending?
21:38:28 <cabanier> cabanier: I am
21:38:37 <cabanier> krit: I will be there too
21:38:40 <cabanier> ed: maybe
21:38:46 <heycam> I will be leaving on Thursday night, so I won't be there
21:38:55 <cabanier> krit: we expect a lot of participants
21:39:19 <cabanier> birtles: I might be able to go. A couple from mozilla Japan will go too
21:39:33 <birtles> s/I might be able to go/I can't go/
21:39:38 <cabanier> krit: one of the topics will be filter effects.
21:39:53 <cabanier> cabanier: there will be a blending topic as well
21:40:34 <cabanier> birtles: is there any information?
21:41:15 <cabanier> krit: Google is hosting and we're organizing
21:41:42 <cabanier> ed: it would be good to mail the list as an announcement
21:41:57 <cabanier> … do we need an action to make sure the info is on the site?
21:41:59 <cabanier> krit: no
21:42:07 <cabanier> ed: any other agenda requests?
21:42:34 <cabanier> krit: I changed the style of filter effects and masking for elements
21:42:59 <cabanier> ed: do we want this for the SVG spec?
21:43:24 <cabanier> krit: It's harder to find consensus. Noone agrees so we can leave it for now.
21:43:28 <cabanier> ed: that's fine
21:44:00 <cabanier> … can we publish the filter spec soon?
21:44:21 <cabanier> krit: there are some issues with mask that affect filters as well
21:44:30 <cabanier> … I'm a bit lost with the concepts.
21:44:47 <cabanier> cabanier: those are different security issues, right? It's is CORS
21:45:08 <cabanier> krit: how you fetch resources is an issue
21:45:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:45:14 <heycam> Zakim, [ is me
21:45:14 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
21:45:38 <cabanier> … do you need more info?
21:45:52 <cabanier> ed: if you want to ask the css group again, that's fine
21:46:16 <cabanier> krit: I'm trying to create a wiki with Anne's and Roc's remarks
21:46:23 <cabanier> … it's very confusing
21:46:33 <cabanier> … I will keep the discussion on the mailing list for now
21:47:18 <cabanier> topic: technical documentation
21:49:01 <cabanier> shepazu: many people have said that they want to use SVG instead of WebCGM
21:49:07 <cabanier> … is this of interest to you?
21:49:35 <cabanier> thomas: we've been using CGM in the past and going forward we did a study
21:50:07 <cabanier> … WebCGM was rejected because it's half baked and unstable while SVG is more consistent
21:50:29 <cabanier> … it solves 90% of the problem
21:50:48 <cabanier> … the enduser will see SVG in our world
21:51:02 <cabanier> shepazu: it's interesting that there's a market where SVG is suited
21:51:21 <cabanier> … it's not much of a stretch to go to 100%
21:51:38 <cabanier> … I would love to see what use cases are missing and how we can meet those
21:51:44 <cabanier> thomas: I would love to do that
21:52:03 <cabanier> shepazu: I would to bring up connectors
21:52:37 <cabanier> … there is no format to represent graphs and I would like to make it a first class citizen of the web
21:53:01 <cabanier> … non-scaling strokes are in the spec now
21:53:15 <cabanier> krit: Webkit, firefox and opera have them
21:53:24 <cabanier> shepazu: are there other things?
21:53:38 <cabanier> thomas: I mentioned text-length
21:53:54 <cabanier> … that let's you specify exact text layout
21:54:17 <cabanier> shepazu: Web fonts let you pick an exact font
21:54:30 <cabanier> … but it doesn't let you do distortions
21:54:49 <cabanier> cabanier: he is not asking for distortions
21:55:32 <cabanier> thomas: what we currently do, is export with text-lenght and scale later so it matches the length
21:55:40 <heycam> Firefox bug for textLength - https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=569722
21:55:51 <cabanier> … if the spec was implemented, we would not have a problem
21:56:02 <cabanier> ed: I think this is just an implementation bug
21:56:15 <cabanier> heycam: is this because there's a fundamental problem?
21:56:32 <cabanier> thomas: MS and Mozilla told me that it was not important enough
21:56:43 <cabanier> heycam: it's good to hear from people
21:56:55 <cabanier> krit: is this feature what you actually want?
21:57:28 <cabanier> thomas: from reading, textlenght will do what we need it to do
21:57:48 <cabanier> krit: in that case, you should bring it up with the different browser vendors
21:58:11 <cabanier> shepazu: we can make a use case document and have all the tests
21:58:33 <cabanier> … Thomas, if you can do that, it will help us push that feature
21:59:04 <cabanier> action: Thomas to write to write a test suite for text length
21:59:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3489 - Write to write a test suite for text length [on Thomas Smailus - due 2013-04-25].
21:59:18 <cabanier> heycam: I think we have 1 text
21:59:22 <cabanier> s/text/test
22:00:05 <heycam> This is the only test for textLength / lengthAdjust, I think: http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/Test/20110816/harness/htmlObjectApproved/text-text-01-b.html
22:00:14 <cabanier> shepazu: you need to port the test to the new format. You should also create a use case document
22:00:37 <cabanier> … maybe it should also be a CSS feature?
22:01:04 <cabanier> krit: I think that will be hard to do.
22:01:26 <cabanier> shepazu: I agree that putting it in SVG will be far quicker
22:01:44 <cabanier> … Thomas, is there a community group for technical documentation?
22:01:49 <cabanier> thomas: I don't know
22:02:11 <cabanier> shepazu: maybe we can connect with people from the WebCGM community
22:02:21 <cabanier> … and see if other people want this feature
22:03:26 <cabanier> thomas: another thing is that WebCGM is a plugin. Our customers are very reluctant to rely on plugins.
22:03:39 <cabanier> shepazu: are there other features that are missing?
22:04:01 <cabanier> thomas: let me do a look and see if there are other ones
22:04:57 <Zakim> -birtles
22:05:01 <Zakim> -ed
22:05:03 <Zakim> -cabanier
22:05:03 <Zakim> -krit
22:05:04 <Zakim> - +1.425.373.aaaa
22:05:27 <cabanier> * cameron, can you send the minutes out? *
22:28:34 <glenn> glenn has joined #svg
22:33:47 <Zakim> -heycam
22:33:49 <Zakim> -Doug_Schepers
22:33:49 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG(SVG1)5:00PM has ended
22:33:49 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.425.373.aaaa, birtles, ed, Krit, heycam, cabanier, Doug_Schepers, +1.415.832.aabb, [IPcaller]
22:33:55 <heycam> RRSAgent, make minutes
22:33:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/18-svg-minutes.html heycam
22:50:18 <krit> krit has joined #svg
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