15:09:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #css
15:09:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/17-css-irc
15:09:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #css
15:09:18 <glazou> Zakim, this will be Style
15:09:18 <Zakim> ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 51 minutes
15:09:23 <glazou> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:10:05 <glazou> glazou has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Apr/0381.html
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15:55:20 <Zakim> Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:55:28 <Zakim> + +2aaaa
15:55:48 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:55:49 <sgalineau> sgalineau has joined #css
15:55:59 <Zakim> +plinss
15:55:59 <florian> Zakim, [IPcaller] has me
15:56:00 <Zakim> +florian; got it
15:56:05 <sgalinea_> sgalinea_ has joined #css
15:56:59 <plinss> zakim, 2aaaa is sgalineau
15:56:59 <Zakim> sorry, plinss, I do not recognize a party named '2aaaa'
15:57:15 <plinss> zakim, aaaa is sgalineau
15:57:15 <Zakim> +sgalineau; got it
15:57:46 <Zakim> +??P7
15:58:04 <Zakim> +Krit
15:58:07 <Zakim> +glenn
15:58:18 <dael> dael has joined #css
15:58:45 <Zakim> +??P11
15:58:48 <Zakim> + +1.610.324.aabb
15:58:51 <glazou> Zakim, ??P11 is me
15:58:52 <Zakim> +glazou; got it
15:59:02 <dael> zakim, aabb is me
15:59:02 <Zakim> +dael; got it
15:59:03 <dbaron> dbaron has joined #css
15:59:14 <dbaron> so what SIP clients have people had success with on Linux?
15:59:28 <dbaron> or Android, actually?
15:59:40 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
15:59:40 <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
15:59:48 <rhauck> rhauck has joined #css
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16:00:14 <Zakim> +nvdbleek
16:00:34 <Zakim> + +1.415.832.aacc
16:00:40 <glazou> dbaron, have you tried linphone?
16:00:44 <rhauck> Zakim, aacc is me
16:00:45 <glazou> used to work for me
16:00:45 <Zakim> +rhauck; got it
16:00:57 <Rossen> Rossen has joined #css
16:01:03 <Zakim> +Stearns
16:01:33 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:01:37 <Zakim> +SimonSapin
16:01:45 <smfr> smfr has joined #css
16:01:58 <Zakim> +Bert
16:02:16 <Zakim> +smfr
16:02:17 <MaRakow> MaRakow has joined #CSS
16:02:39 <Zakim> +Lea
16:02:43 <MaRakow> zakim, microsoft has me
16:02:43 <Zakim> +MaRakow; got it
16:02:59 <Zakim> +fantasai
16:03:09 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
16:03:30 <Rossen> zakim, microsoft has me
16:03:30 <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
16:03:31 <BradK> BradK has joined #CSS
16:03:48 <Zakim> +[Apple]
16:03:49 <smfr> yes
16:03:57 <hober> Zakim, Apple is me
16:03:57 <Zakim> +hober; got it
16:04:03 <Zakim> +BradK
16:04:05 <nvdbleek> zakim, mute me
16:04:05 <Zakim> nvdbleek should now be muted
16:05:14 <plh> plh has joined #css
16:05:18 <Israelh> Israelh has joined #CSS
16:05:21 <glazou> yo plh
16:05:40 <Zakim> + +1.832.797.aadd
16:05:44 <TabAtkins_> zakim, aadd is me
16:05:44 <Zakim> +TabAtkins_; got it
16:05:49 <Ms2ger> A bus? Today we ride the School Sub!
16:05:49 <glazou> hober, the bar route in SD you mean ?-)
16:06:06 <BradK> Rename all the bus stops
16:07:10 <plh> zakim, drop plh
16:07:10 <Zakim> sorry, plh, I do not see a party named 'plh'
16:07:20 <plh> zakim, passcode?
16:07:20 <Zakim> the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), plh
16:07:38 <Zakim> +??P74
16:07:46 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #css
16:07:51 <Zakim> +plh
16:08:03 <dbaron> Zakim, mute dbaron
16:08:03 <Zakim> dbaron should now be muted
16:08:16 <plinss> zakim, pick a victim
16:08:16 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose dael
16:08:25 <plinss> zakim, pick a victim
16:08:25 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [IPcaller]
16:08:29 <dael> One day I'll be on contract, I swear :)
16:08:37 <TabAtkins_> I'm trying!
16:09:00 <Bert> Scribe: Bert
16:09:21 <Zakim> +ChrisL
16:09:32 <Bert> Topic: Colors 4
16:10:00 <Bert> TabAtkins_: Some syntax improvements form past few years. Suggestion from dbaron.
16:10:01 <ChrisL> so colors4 is just syntax options plus a bad color property
16:10:17 <Bert> ... I pulled them together into a module.
16:10:31 <Bert> ChrisL: So it is syntax, plus a bad, horrible property?
16:10:44 <Bert> TabAtkins_: It was dbaron 's suggestion.
16:11:09 <Bert> dbaron: Web browsers do no follow the spec now.
16:11:18 <Bert> ChrisL: Depends on what you mean by that.
16:11:23 <stearns> s/do no/do not/
16:11:38 <Bert> ... srgb as device rgb is fine and fairly common.
16:11:46 <Bert> ... wide gamut monitor is different.
16:11:55 <tantek> tantek has joined #css
16:12:04 <Bert> ... Treating it as srgb will give good results.
16:12:34 <Bert> ... So current situation is good and allows for future. This new property makes things worse.
16:12:46 <Bert> dbaron: It's for PNG images with info in them.
16:12:59 <Bert> ChrisL: Chromaticity oo ITC tag
16:13:09 <Bert> dbaron: Those will not use CSS colors.
16:13:19 <Bert> ... So you cannot match PNG to CSS colors.
16:13:40 <Bert> ChrisL: In that past we had pb with flash. But flash can now be color managed, too.
16:13:52 <Bert> ... So no reason anymore.
16:14:15 <Bert> ... So the situation has changed since 3 \years.
16:14:26 <Bert> dbaron: OK, so we shoild look at it again.
16:14:29 <Bert> ChrisL: I can help.
16:14:42 <Bert> ... Editors for css3-colors?
16:14:55 <Bert> TabAtkins_: css4-color so far a private draft.
16:15:01 <glazou> if I say css 6, do I win?
16:15:04 <Bert> ChrisL: I'd be happy to be co-editor.
16:15:14 <Bert> TabAtkins_: Seems you're in the editoprs list already.
16:15:25 <Bert> plinss: Do we work on it?
16:15:39 <glazou> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:15:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see sgalineau, [IPcaller], plinss, ??P7, Krit, glenn, glazou, dael, nvdbleek (muted), rhauck, Stearns, [Microsoft], SimonSapin, Bert, smfr, Lea, fantasai,
16:15:40 <Bert> dbaron: I've heard some objections to every simngle thing in the draft.
16:15:40 <ChrisL> ok to work on it subject to discussing the contentious property
16:15:43 <Zakim> ... [Microsoft.a], hober, BradK, TabAtkins_, dbaron, plh, ChrisL
16:15:43 <Zakim> [IPcaller] has florian
16:15:43 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Rossen
16:15:53 <Bert> dbaron: I'm not happy with the [???] syntax.
16:15:59 <Bert> ... compat pb.
16:16:04 <ChrisL> s/ITC/ICC
16:16:08 <TabAtkins_> s/[???]/new/
16:16:28 <Bert> ... Syntax could have been better, but not wo5rth changing now.
16:16:43 <Bert> ChrisL: What do current impls do with new syntax?
16:16:48 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.aa]
16:16:50 <Bert> dbaron: Error and fall back.
16:16:58 <arronei> zakim, microsoft has me
16:16:58 <Zakim> +arronei; got it
16:17:01 <Bert> ChrisL: OK.
16:17:15 <Bert> ... So no pages can depend on the new syntax.
16:17:32 <Bert> florian: There *may* be pages that depenbd on it *not* working.
16:17:44 <Bert> TabAtkins_: Low possibility.
16:17:44 <Zakim> +Tantek
16:17:52 <tantek> Zakim, mute tantek
16:17:52 <Zakim> Tantek should now be muted
16:18:13 <Bert> florian: Yes, but this syntax it is something people might try, becaus eit looks reasonable, and then never remove.
16:18:23 <tantek> oh good times, we're talking color matching again :)
16:18:26 <Bert> TabAtkins_: Maybe not discuss all features today.
16:18:28 <ChrisL> in practice its not going to break anything
16:18:34 <Bert> ... Just whether we want the draft or not.
16:18:49 <Bert> dbaron: The question is if there are any features we want to do.
16:19:08 <Bert> ... Not convinced it is worth our time implementing compared to other stuff.
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16:19:17 <Bert> TabAtkins_: Some of them are 15 minute work.
16:19:30 <Bert> dbaron: And than compat pb to chase down.
16:19:34 <Bert> arronei: and testing.
16:19:53 <Bert> TabAtkins_: hex-with-alpha is long-standing request.
16:20:14 <Bert> ... and [...] I trip over every time I write Canvas code.
16:20:50 <Bert> plinss: So, do we want to work on it?
16:21:16 <Bert> TabAtkins_: glazou was against me starting it on W3C server.
16:22:15 <sgalineau> TabAtkins: what daniel against starting a draft, or against starting it without getting a WG decision to do so first?
16:22:17 <Bert> TabAtkins_: As long as I can use the m-list for discussion, I'm fine.
16:22:24 <tantek> regardless of what repository a draft is in, the problems that dbaron mentions are still there
16:22:35 <tantek> of distracting implementations from other more important things etc.
16:22:40 <TabAtkins_> sgalineau: With me starting a draft *in a W3C server* wihtout a WG decision.
16:22:54 <Bert> plinss: OK, so no formnal draft of colors 4, but folks can discuss possible contents on mailing list.
16:23:02 <tantek> that being said, why not document the incremental additions on our wiki?
16:23:07 <Bert> Topic: marquee
16:23:19 <sgalineau> yes; without a WG decision was the missing bit. thx.
16:23:36 <Bert> plinss: Spec is very old, discontinued.
16:23:47 <Bert> ... Should we publish a new one with a disclaimer?
16:23:57 <Bert> florian: Webkit has impl, I think.
16:24:11 <Bert> ... should we revisit marquee, or just drop it?
16:24:18 <SimonSapin> +1 for big red obsoletion notices in obsolete specs
16:24:24 <Bert> TabAtkins_: Impl is terrible, we want to remove it.
16:25:07 <tantek> and if anyone wants to re-raise it as a draft in the future, they can do so
16:25:15 <Bert> ChrisL: Isn't there a knock-on affect, some parts about box model that are only there?
16:25:17 <ChrisL> I recall some part of box model is only there for marquee
16:25:26 <tantek> what plinss just said
16:25:33 <Bert> bert: I'd suggest makeing a note, somebody reads through it to look for things to safe.
16:25:33 <BradK> So we can ignore 'overflow-style'?
16:25:55 <Bert> florian: overflow-style. Also in paged-x overflow.
16:25:58 <tantek> I wouldn't even suggest a note. Just the discontinued warning.
16:26:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:26:32 <Bert> TabAtkins_: Once it is officially discared I can then remove our code.
16:26:32 <florian> to bert: it is the in the gcpm spec, but not in the only implementation of it (opera) which uses overflow-x/-y
16:27:27 <Bert> RESOLVED: publish an update with a note that says it is no longer
16:27:41 <Bert> ChrisL: Can move to WD without any difficult process.
16:27:46 <Bert> dbaron: WD or NOTE?
16:27:52 <tantek> Note: this spec is discontinued.
16:28:04 <Bert> florian: NOTE sounds like a good thing.
16:28:11 <ChrisL> is there anything else in it apart from marquee?
16:28:15 <tantek> I agree, leaving it as CR will send an ambiguous message.
16:28:18 <dbaron> http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#tr-end
16:28:29 <ChrisL> ChrisL has joined #css
16:28:34 <dbaron> "If W3C decides to discontinue work on a technical report before completion, the technical report SHOULD be published as a Working Group Note."
16:28:42 <Bert> Chris: nothing else than marquee in it? Then whole thing can become a Note.
16:28:59 <Bert> dbaron: [quotes from Process]
16:29:21 <Bert> florian: Also add a note to GCPM about overflow-style?
16:29:42 <Bert> ... In the overflow spec there are issues noted, but not in gcpm.
16:29:52 <dbaron> peter: should probably move to the overflow spec
16:29:53 <Bert> ... So just a note to say be careful.
16:30:19 <plh> example of a discontinued work: http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-webdatabase-20101118/ (style may vary :)
16:30:21 <Bert> ... paged-x/y no longer on 'overflow-style'
16:30:52 <Bert> RESOLVED: publish an update to Marqueewith a note that says it is discontinued.
16:31:05 <Bert> RESOLVED: publish an update to Marqueewith a note that says it is discontinued. Make it a NOTE.
16:31:48 <Bert> florian: I propose to action howcome.
16:32:16 <Bert> ... Spec says overflow-style won't be used. Don't say waht would be used instead.
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