IRC log of css on 2013-04-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:09:04 [RRSAgent]
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15:09:04 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/17-css-irc
15:09:13 [Zakim]
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15:09:18 [glazou]
Zakim, this will be Style
15:09:18 [Zakim]
ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 51 minutes
15:09:23 [glazou]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:10:05 [glazou]
glazou has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2013Apr/0381.html
15:15:03 [lmclister]
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15:45:30 [glenn]
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15:51:49 [florian]
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15:55:20 [Zakim]
Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
15:55:28 [Zakim]
+ +2aaaa
15:55:48 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:55:49 [sgalineau]
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15:55:59 [Zakim]
+plinss
15:55:59 [florian]
Zakim, [IPcaller] has me
15:56:00 [Zakim]
+florian; got it
15:56:05 [sgalinea_]
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15:56:59 [plinss]
zakim, 2aaaa is sgalineau
15:56:59 [Zakim]
sorry, plinss, I do not recognize a party named '2aaaa'
15:57:15 [plinss]
zakim, aaaa is sgalineau
15:57:15 [Zakim]
+sgalineau; got it
15:57:46 [Zakim]
+??P7
15:58:04 [Zakim]
+Krit
15:58:07 [Zakim]
+glenn
15:58:18 [dael]
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15:58:45 [Zakim]
+??P11
15:58:48 [Zakim]
+ +1.610.324.aabb
15:58:51 [glazou]
Zakim, ??P11 is me
15:58:52 [Zakim]
+glazou; got it
15:59:02 [dael]
zakim, aabb is me
15:59:02 [Zakim]
+dael; got it
15:59:03 [dbaron]
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15:59:14 [dbaron]
so what SIP clients have people had success with on Linux?
15:59:28 [dbaron]
or Android, actually?
15:59:40 [nvdbleek]
zakim, code?
15:59:40 [Zakim]
the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
15:59:48 [rhauck]
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15:59:53 [oyvind]
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16:00:14 [Zakim]
+nvdbleek
16:00:34 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.832.aacc
16:00:40 [glazou]
dbaron, have you tried linphone?
16:00:44 [rhauck]
Zakim, aacc is me
16:00:45 [glazou]
used to work for me
16:00:45 [Zakim]
+rhauck; got it
16:00:57 [Rossen]
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16:01:03 [Zakim]
+Stearns
16:01:33 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
16:01:37 [Zakim]
+SimonSapin
16:01:45 [smfr]
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16:01:58 [Zakim]
+Bert
16:02:16 [Zakim]
+smfr
16:02:17 [MaRakow]
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16:02:39 [Zakim]
+Lea
16:02:43 [MaRakow]
zakim, microsoft has me
16:02:43 [Zakim]
+MaRakow; got it
16:02:59 [Zakim]
+fantasai
16:03:09 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
16:03:30 [Rossen]
zakim, microsoft has me
16:03:30 [Zakim]
+Rossen; got it
16:03:31 [BradK]
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16:03:48 [Zakim]
+[Apple]
16:03:49 [smfr]
yes
16:03:57 [hober]
Zakim, Apple is me
16:03:57 [Zakim]
+hober; got it
16:04:03 [Zakim]
+BradK
16:04:05 [nvdbleek]
zakim, mute me
16:04:05 [Zakim]
nvdbleek should now be muted
16:05:14 [plh]
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16:05:18 [Israelh]
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16:05:21 [glazou]
yo plh
16:05:40 [Zakim]
+ +1.832.797.aadd
16:05:44 [TabAtkins_]
zakim, aadd is me
16:05:44 [Zakim]
+TabAtkins_; got it
16:05:49 [Ms2ger]
A bus? Today we ride the School Sub!
16:05:49 [glazou]
hober, the bar route in SD you mean ?-)
16:06:06 [BradK]
Rename all the bus stops
16:07:10 [plh]
zakim, drop plh
16:07:10 [Zakim]
sorry, plh, I do not see a party named 'plh'
16:07:20 [plh]
zakim, passcode?
16:07:20 [Zakim]
the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), plh
16:07:38 [Zakim]
+??P74
16:07:46 [ChrisL]
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16:07:51 [Zakim]
+plh
16:08:03 [dbaron]
Zakim, mute dbaron
16:08:03 [Zakim]
dbaron should now be muted
16:08:16 [plinss]
zakim, pick a victim
16:08:16 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose dael
16:08:25 [plinss]
zakim, pick a victim
16:08:25 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [IPcaller]
16:08:29 [dael]
One day I'll be on contract, I swear :)
16:08:37 [TabAtkins_]
I'm trying!
16:09:00 [Bert]
Scribe: Bert
16:09:21 [Zakim]
+ChrisL
16:09:32 [Bert]
Topic: Colors 4
16:10:00 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: Some syntax improvements form past few years. Suggestion from dbaron.
16:10:01 [ChrisL]
so colors4 is just syntax options plus a bad color property
16:10:17 [Bert]
... I pulled them together into a module.
16:10:31 [Bert]
ChrisL: So it is syntax, plus a bad, horrible property?
16:10:44 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: It was dbaron 's suggestion.
16:11:09 [Bert]
dbaron: Web browsers do no follow the spec now.
16:11:18 [Bert]
ChrisL: Depends on what you mean by that.
16:11:23 [stearns]
s/do no/do not/
16:11:38 [Bert]
... srgb as device rgb is fine and fairly common.
16:11:46 [Bert]
... wide gamut monitor is different.
16:11:55 [tantek]
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16:12:04 [Bert]
... Treating it as srgb will give good results.
16:12:34 [Bert]
... So current situation is good and allows for future. This new property makes things worse.
16:12:46 [Bert]
dbaron: It's for PNG images with info in them.
16:12:59 [Bert]
ChrisL: Chromaticity oo ITC tag
16:13:09 [Bert]
dbaron: Those will not use CSS colors.
16:13:19 [Bert]
... So you cannot match PNG to CSS colors.
16:13:40 [Bert]
ChrisL: In that past we had pb with flash. But flash can now be color managed, too.
16:13:52 [Bert]
... So no reason anymore.
16:14:15 [Bert]
... So the situation has changed since 3 \years.
16:14:26 [Bert]
dbaron: OK, so we shoild look at it again.
16:14:29 [Bert]
ChrisL: I can help.
16:14:42 [Bert]
... Editors for css3-colors?
16:14:55 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: css4-color so far a private draft.
16:15:01 [glazou]
if I say css 6, do I win?
16:15:04 [Bert]
ChrisL: I'd be happy to be co-editor.
16:15:14 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: Seems you're in the editoprs list already.
16:15:25 [Bert]
plinss: Do we work on it?
16:15:39 [glazou]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:15:39 [Zakim]
On the phone I see sgalineau, [IPcaller], plinss, ??P7, Krit, glenn, glazou, dael, nvdbleek (muted), rhauck, Stearns, [Microsoft], SimonSapin, Bert, smfr, Lea, fantasai,
16:15:40 [Bert]
dbaron: I've heard some objections to every simngle thing in the draft.
16:15:40 [ChrisL]
ok to work on it subject to discussing the contentious property
16:15:43 [Zakim]
... [Microsoft.a], hober, BradK, TabAtkins_, dbaron, plh, ChrisL
16:15:43 [Zakim]
[IPcaller] has florian
16:15:43 [Zakim]
[Microsoft] has Rossen
16:15:53 [Bert]
dbaron: I'm not happy with the [???] syntax.
16:15:59 [Bert]
... compat pb.
16:16:04 [ChrisL]
s/ITC/ICC
16:16:08 [TabAtkins_]
s/[???]/new/
16:16:28 [Bert]
... Syntax could have been better, but not wo5rth changing now.
16:16:43 [Bert]
ChrisL: What do current impls do with new syntax?
16:16:48 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.aa]
16:16:50 [Bert]
dbaron: Error and fall back.
16:16:58 [arronei]
zakim, microsoft has me
16:16:58 [Zakim]
+arronei; got it
16:17:01 [Bert]
ChrisL: OK.
16:17:15 [Bert]
... So no pages can depend on the new syntax.
16:17:32 [Bert]
florian: There *may* be pages that depenbd on it *not* working.
16:17:44 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: Low possibility.
16:17:44 [Zakim]
+Tantek
16:17:52 [tantek]
Zakim, mute tantek
16:17:52 [Zakim]
Tantek should now be muted
16:18:13 [Bert]
florian: Yes, but this syntax it is something people might try, becaus eit looks reasonable, and then never remove.
16:18:23 [tantek]
oh good times, we're talking color matching again :)
16:18:26 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: Maybe not discuss all features today.
16:18:28 [ChrisL]
in practice its not going to break anything
16:18:34 [Bert]
... Just whether we want the draft or not.
16:18:49 [Bert]
dbaron: The question is if there are any features we want to do.
16:19:08 [Bert]
... Not convinced it is worth our time implementing compared to other stuff.
16:19:16 [emalasky]
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16:19:17 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: Some of them are 15 minute work.
16:19:30 [Bert]
dbaron: And than compat pb to chase down.
16:19:34 [Bert]
arronei: and testing.
16:19:53 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: hex-with-alpha is long-standing request.
16:20:14 [Bert]
... and [...] I trip over every time I write Canvas code.
16:20:50 [Bert]
plinss: So, do we want to work on it?
16:21:16 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: glazou was against me starting it on W3C server.
16:22:15 [sgalineau]
TabAtkins: what daniel against starting a draft, or against starting it without getting a WG decision to do so first?
16:22:17 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: As long as I can use the m-list for discussion, I'm fine.
16:22:24 [tantek]
regardless of what repository a draft is in, the problems that dbaron mentions are still there
16:22:35 [tantek]
of distracting implementations from other more important things etc.
16:22:40 [TabAtkins_]
sgalineau: With me starting a draft *in a W3C server* wihtout a WG decision.
16:22:54 [Bert]
plinss: OK, so no formnal draft of colors 4, but folks can discuss possible contents on mailing list.
16:23:02 [tantek]
that being said, why not document the incremental additions on our wiki?
16:23:07 [Bert]
Topic: marquee
16:23:19 [sgalineau]
yes; without a WG decision was the missing bit. thx.
16:23:36 [Bert]
plinss: Spec is very old, discontinued.
16:23:47 [Bert]
... Should we publish a new one with a disclaimer?
16:23:57 [Bert]
florian: Webkit has impl, I think.
16:24:11 [Bert]
... should we revisit marquee, or just drop it?
16:24:18 [SimonSapin]
+1 for big red obsoletion notices in obsolete specs
16:24:24 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: Impl is terrible, we want to remove it.
16:25:07 [tantek]
and if anyone wants to re-raise it as a draft in the future, they can do so
16:25:15 [Bert]
ChrisL: Isn't there a knock-on affect, some parts about box model that are only there?
16:25:17 [ChrisL]
I recall some part of box model is only there for marquee
16:25:26 [tantek]
what plinss just said
16:25:33 [Bert]
bert: I'd suggest makeing a note, somebody reads through it to look for things to safe.
16:25:33 [BradK]
So we can ignore 'overflow-style'?
16:25:55 [Bert]
florian: overflow-style. Also in paged-x overflow.
16:25:58 [tantek]
I wouldn't even suggest a note. Just the discontinued warning.
16:26:04 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
16:26:32 [Bert]
TabAtkins_: Once it is officially discared I can then remove our code.
16:26:32 [florian]
to bert: it is the in the gcpm spec, but not in the only implementation of it (opera) which uses overflow-x/-y
16:27:27 [Bert]
RESOLVED: publish an update with a note that says it is no longer
16:27:41 [Bert]
ChrisL: Can move to WD without any difficult process.
16:27:46 [Bert]
dbaron: WD or NOTE?
16:27:52 [tantek]
Note: this spec is discontinued.
16:28:04 [Bert]
florian: NOTE sounds like a good thing.
16:28:11 [ChrisL]
is there anything else in it apart from marquee?
16:28:15 [tantek]
I agree, leaving it as CR will send an ambiguous message.
16:28:18 [dbaron]
http://www.w3.org/2005/10/Process-20051014/tr.html#tr-end
16:28:29 [ChrisL]
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16:28:34 [dbaron]
"If W3C decides to discontinue work on a technical report before completion, the technical report SHOULD be published as a Working Group Note."
16:28:42 [Bert]
Chris: nothing else than marquee in it? Then whole thing can become a Note.
16:28:59 [Bert]
dbaron: [quotes from Process]
16:29:21 [Bert]
florian: Also add a note to GCPM about overflow-style?
16:29:42 [Bert]
... In the overflow spec there are issues noted, but not in gcpm.
16:29:52 [dbaron]
peter: should probably move to the overflow spec
16:29:53 [Bert]
... So just a note to say be careful.
16:30:19 [plh]
example of a discontinued work: http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-webdatabase-20101118/ (style may vary :)
16:30:21 [Bert]
... paged-x/y no longer on 'overflow-style'
16:30:52 [Bert]
RESOLVED: publish an update to Marqueewith a note that says it is discontinued.
16:31:05 [Bert]
RESOLVED: publish an update to Marqueewith a note that says it is discontinued. Make it a NOTE.
16:31:48 [Bert]
florian: I propose to action howcome.
16:32:16 [Bert]
... Spec says overflow-style won't be used. Don't say waht would be used instead.
16:32:41 [koji]
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