16:55:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
16:55:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-aapi-irc
16:55:34 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
16:55:45 <clown> zakim, the will be aapi
16:55:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'the will be aapi', clown
16:55:52 <clown> zakim, this will be aapi
16:55:52 <Zakim> ok, clown; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
16:56:21 <clown> scribenick: clown
16:56:29 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
16:56:47 <clown> agenda:  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2013Apr/0006.html
16:57:53 <clown> meeting: WAI PF UAIG Weekly Teleconference
16:58:03 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-aapi-minutes.html clown
16:58:10 <clown> rrsagent, make log public
16:58:26 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-aapi-minutes.html clown
17:00:13 <clown> trackbot, start meeting
17:00:15 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
17:00:17 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:00:17 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM scheduled to start now
17:00:18 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:00:18 <trackbot> Date: 11 April 2013
17:00:30 <clown> rrsagent, make log public
17:00:35 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
17:00:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-aapi-minutes.html clown
17:01:40 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM has now started
17:02:27 <clown> zakim, who  is on the phone?
17:02:27 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
17:02:34 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM has ended
17:02:35 <Zakim> Attendees were
17:02:58 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM has now started
17:03:04 <davidb> davidb has joined #aapi
17:05:20 <clown> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:05:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
17:05:31 <clown> zakim, this is aapi
17:05:32 <Zakim> clown, this was already WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM
17:05:32 <Zakim> ok, clown; that matches WAI_PFWG(AAPI)1:00PM
17:06:22 <clown> Topic:  issue-566
17:06:26 <clown> ISSUE-566?
17:06:26 <trackbot> ISSUE-566 -- Inconsistency between Spec's required states/properties for certain roles and UAIG's error handling of those roles/states/properties -- open
17:06:26 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/566
17:08:22 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-implementation/#document-handling_author-errors
17:11:06 <clown> JS:  describes the issue and the history of the issue.
17:14:04 <davidb> discussion ensues about how crazy the idea of a literal "undefined" value is
17:19:59 <davidb> noticing earlier bullet about "When exposing as a platform API Boolean state, treat "", "undefined" or no attribute present as false. Treat any other value as true."
17:20:31 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#requiredState
17:20:37 <davidb> also discussing whether ARIA spec "required" aria- attributes means required for the author to explicitly add or if required == implicit
17:20:58 <davidb> seems authors must be explicit is the correct interpretation
17:21:18 <davidb> note UIAG often uses hacker sense of 'undefined'
17:33:40 <clown> JS:  I will bring this up at the Mon call — the bit about the bullet where "undefined" is generall mapped to "false".  Also the attribute absence is mapped to "false", but shouldn't be.
17:35:15 <clown> JS:  speaks to the *-able states.  If the attribute is missing (= undefined?), then the accessible is not *-able in some sense.  E.g., not grab-able.
17:36:09 <clown> DB:  what about a role="checkbox"?
17:36:30 <clown> JS:  that's covered by the required state; that aria-checked is required for checkbox.
17:36:54 <clown> DB:  worried that there still might be gotchas.
17:39:38 <davidb> (aside: language semantics between UIAG and ARIA spec might be bit different)
17:39:40 <clown> JS:  Proposed algorithm:  if the role requires an aria-* and it is absent, then the accessible gets any relevant *-able state.  Othewise, if absent, the *-able state is effectively "false."
17:40:51 <clown> JS:  Proposed algorithm:  if the role requires an aria-* and it is absent, then the accessible gets any relevant *-able state.  Otherwise it is not required by the role and the relevant *-able state is effectively "false."
17:42:23 <davidb> I might change it to something along the lines of, "if the role obviously implies the children are *-able then expose that way"
17:42:54 <davidb> and avoid the 'required attribute' thing
17:43:38 <clown> option:  http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#option
17:46:15 <clown> JS:  options should have a required aria-selected.
17:46:24 <clown> DB:  where are options used?
17:46:52 <clown> JS:  they must appear within a "select"
17:46:59 <clown> JS:  select is abstract.
17:47:24 <clown> JS:  but the concrete sub-classes are combobox, listbox, menu, radiogroup, and tree.
17:49:12 <clown> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/roles#treeitem
17:49:41 <davidb> DB: wondering if options can always default to selectable… unsure
17:50:05 <davidb> tree item inherits from option...
17:51:15 <clown> JS:  notes that option is defined as "A selectable item"
17:53:14 <clown> DB:  options that are within selects are always selectable.
17:53:27 <davidb> DB: by default
17:54:46 <clown> DB:  that might override the bullet in the UAIG re:  "", "undefined", and absence are treated as false.
18:04:16 <clown> JS:  I will bring all of this up at Monday's meeting.
18:04:52 <clown> absent:  Cynthia_Shelly
18:04:59 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
18:04:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:05:40 <clown> s/absent:  Cynthia_Shelly//
18:05:43 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
18:05:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:06:42 <clown> s/absent\:  Cynthia_Shelly/ /
18:06:44 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
18:06:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:07:42 <clown> regrets:  Cynthia_Shelly
18:07:45 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
18:07:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:08:05 <clown> zakim, bye
18:08:05 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
18:08:24 <clown> Present:  David_Bolter, Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:08:28 <clown> zakim, bye
18:08:35 <clown> rrsagent, make minutes
18:08:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/11-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:16:29 <clown> rrsagent, plase part
18:16:29 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'plase part', clown.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
18:17:03 <clown> rrsagent, please part
18:17:03 <RRSAgent> I see no action items