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11:33:47 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT WG
11:33:49 <fsasaki> chair: Felix
11:34:02 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0053.html
11:34:09 <fsasaki> regrets: christian, Jörg, Dave, olaf-michael, Dom
11:34:21 <fsasaki> topic: roll call
11:34:25 <fsasaki> checking attendance ...
11:34:27 <fsasaki> present+ felix
11:34:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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12:02:57 <dF> present+ dF
12:03:16 <Jirka> present+ Jirka
12:03:19 <giuseppe> present+ Giuseppe
12:04:21 <fsasaki> present+ phil
12:04:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
12:05:39 <dF> I am on it, go to acts strangely..
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12:06:14 <pnietoca> present+ pnietoca
12:06:40 <fsasaki> present+ dF
12:07:10 <fsasaki> dF, is it ok to start?
12:07:11 <dF> trying again
12:07:16 <fsasaki> ok, waiting
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12:07:35 <fsasaki> present+ arle
12:07:36 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0053.html
12:07:42 <dF> no problem, go ahead
12:08:08 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
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12:08:24 <fsasaki> present+ mauricio
12:08:27 <philr> present+ philr
12:08:29 <fsasaki> topic: Review of issues 100-120
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12:08:38 <Yves_> Yves_ has joined #mlw-lt
12:08:48 <Yves_> Present+ Yves
12:08:54 <mdelolmo> present+ mdelolmo
12:09:32 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0050.html
12:10:11 <fsasaki> jirka: can close the issues that are marked to be closed
12:10:42 <fsasaki> david: chase came back yesterday, I closed precedence issue
12:10:56 <fsasaki> topic: Review of issues 70 - 92
12:11:04 <fsasaki> dave has regrets, postponed
12:11:14 <fsasaki> topic: LC issues in general
12:11:21 <fsasaki> http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling
12:11:27 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0043.html
12:12:02 <fsasaki> felix: any other open issues than the four issues in the mail?
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12:12:14 <Ankit> present+ Ankit
12:12:31 <fsasaki> felix: if you find something, please let the wg list know
12:12:56 <fsasaki> .. in public draft, I would mention these four issues to get feedback
12:13:16 <fsasaki> .. e.g. HTML defaults
12:13:26 <fsasaki> topic: Change of regex for allowed characters
12:14:13 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0053.html
12:14:21 <fsasaki> 4) Change of regex for allowed characters
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12:14:46 <Milan> presentˇMilan
12:14:57 <Milan> present+ Milan
12:15:06 <fsasaki> present+milan
12:15:32 <fsasaki> felix summarizing the topic from the agenda
12:17:05 <Yves_> I think the latest ABNF Felix posted was fine.
12:17:28 <fsasaki> felix: for removing the xml schema dependencey we need to close this issue
12:17:58 <Pedro> Pedro has joined #mlw-lt
12:18:22 <Pedro> present+ Pedro
12:18:38 <fsasaki> felix: would people be happy to have an ABNF and then use that for validation
12:18:58 <fsasaki> pablo: I could make the abnf but I'm not familiar with that
12:21:40 <pnietoca> http://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#nt-MultiCharEsc
12:21:40 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0041.html
12:23:09 <fsasaki> action: pablo to create an ABNF based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0047.html
12:23:09 <trackbot> 'pablo' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., pnietoca, pbada).
12:23:17 <fsasaki> action: pnietoca to create an ABNF based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0047.html
12:23:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-484 - Create an ABNF based on http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Apr/0047.html [on Pablo Nieto Caride - due 2013-04-17].
12:23:57 <fsasaki> topic: Ruby section
12:24:11 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2013AprJun/0014.html
12:24:21 <fsasaki> norberts reply http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2013AprJun/0015.html
12:25:02 <fsasaki> felix: are people ok with removing the ruby section and explain like in norbert's mail?
12:25:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
12:25:51 <fsasaki> david: what would be the explanation? where would it point to?
12:26:14 <Yves_> I'm fine with removing the section with explanation
12:26:32 <fsasaki> felix: pointing to ITS1 and the in flux HTML5 ruby
12:27:17 <fsasaki> action: felix to remove ruby section and to write an explanation as a non-normative appendix, pointing to ITS1 and the in flux HTML5 ruby
12:27:17 <trackbot> Created ACTION-485 - Remove ruby section and to write an explanation as a non-normative appendix, pointing to ITS1 and the in flux HTML5 ruby [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-04-17].
12:27:35 <fsasaki> felix: will also mention that in status section
12:27:50 <fsasaki> topic: HTML translate
12:28:06 <fsasaki> yves' bug https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21495
12:28:14 <fsasaki> present+ pedro
12:31:04 <fsasaki> david: it is acceptable to drop it, it is intertwined with html defaults in general
12:31:24 <fsasaki> .. we can't make a sensible default handling of html defaults without knowing how the bug will be handled
12:31:31 <fsasaki> .. what phase is html in?
12:31:45 <fsasaki> .. we cannot reference in the final draft something that is two steps behind?
12:32:09 <fsasaki> s/drop it/drop interpretation of HTML translate/
12:32:27 <fsasaki> david: probably not acceptable to have both its translate and html translate html
12:32:42 <fsasaki> .. this cannot be resolved until html has final solution
12:33:13 <fsasaki> http://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html
12:33:48 <fsasaki> felix: dcu, enlaso, linguaserve, lucy, ul - would need to change impl if we have normative dependency on HTML translate
12:35:23 <Yves_> We implemented HTML defaults as global rules, but it cannot really work for overriding.
12:35:39 <Yves_> Having explicit defaults would be better.
12:35:50 <fsasaki> pedro: think there is not a full overlap between translate html5 and ITS translate
12:36:10 <fsasaki> .. in HTML5 there is language information and we have it in ITS, but the behaviour is different
12:36:33 <fsasaki> .. in HTML5 transalte can be coded in a global rule? ITS translate is more powerful
12:36:40 <fsasaki> .. co-existency is possibly
12:37:15 <fsasaki> felix: with explicti defaults, we woudl have to wait for html5, as david said
12:37:38 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Mar/0203.html
12:38:18 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#the-translate-attribute
12:38:33 <fsasaki> The following ARIA [ARIA] attributes are translatable attributes:      aria-label on all HTML elements elements     aria-valuetext on any element with an ARIA role of progressbar, scrollbar, slider or spinbutton.
12:38:56 <fsasaki> felix: even with explict defaults, html5 for a long time will still be a moving target
12:38:57 <Yves_> Then we define our own defaults for HTML5 based on what we think is right and their discussion.
12:39:23 <Yves_> yes
12:40:23 <fsasaki> felix: agree with yves, let's focus on our mechanism for defaults, see next topic
12:40:33 <fsasaki> topic: HTML defaults
12:40:44 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/118
12:42:38 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#datacategories-defaults-etc
12:43:26 <fsasaki> "translate="yes" for elements, and translate="no" for attributes" > "For HTML5, use these defaults: ..."
12:43:59 <fsasaki> felix: precedence would be lower than inline markup, global rules, inheritance
12:44:17 <fsasaki> david: that is alll other methods are overriden?
12:44:19 <fsasaki> felix: yes
12:44:20 <Yves_> I can try to come up with the list of defaults by data category
12:44:30 <Yves_> as a starting point
12:45:02 <fsasaki> s/precedence/power/
12:45:32 <fsasaki> s/overriden/stronger/
12:45:56 <Yves_> good then
12:46:09 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/HTML5_Defaults
12:47:10 <fsasaki> http://tinyurl.com/its20-testsuite-dashboard
12:47:37 <fsasaki> felix: will implementers be willing for HTML defaults?
12:47:50 <fsasaki> david: cannot estimate the effort
12:48:09 <Yves_> redoing the test should just be re-running them. The hard part is to implement the defaults
12:48:12 <fsasaki> pablo: we should do it if we have defaults
12:49:10 <fsasaki> felix: some implementations have a lot of parts for the conformance testing
12:50:13 <Yves_> It should affect only Translate, Element Within Text and maybe one or two data categories, not all 20 of them.
12:50:43 <fsasaki> felix: ankit, felix, would you be able to implement the defaults in WP4?
12:52:32 <fsasaki> action: felix to go back to thomas and check defaults implemtation effort
12:52:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-486 - Go back to thomas and check defaults implemtation effort [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-04-17].
12:52:55 <fsasaki> daivd: about real implementations compared to conformance testing - our input depencdy on enalso and tcd
12:53:46 <fsasaki> felix: pablo and yves coudl do conformance testing for html translate
12:54:42 <Yves_> yes
12:54:53 <fsasaki> action: yves to stabilize the defaults page from karl
12:54:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-487 - Stabilize the defaults page from karl [on Yves Savourel - due 2013-04-17].
12:55:19 <fsasaki> topic: Publication of WD
12:55:31 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html
12:55:55 <fsasaki> felix: everybody fine with publciation as a "heart beat" draft?
12:56:05 <fsasaki> .. we are askgin for feedback on open issues, that is it
12:56:14 <fsasaki> pablo: ok
12:56:35 <fsasaki> action: felix to prepare next ITS2 public draft
12:56:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-488 - Prepare next ITS2 public draft [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-04-17].
12:56:48 <fsasaki> topic: WG topics until Bled f2f
12:57:38 <fsasaki> felix: propose to focus from next week until bled on xliff mapping
12:58:25 <fsasaki> david: we hope to push xliff 2.0 in 2nd half of april
12:58:48 <fsasaki> .. in xliff 2.0 we removed all blocks that prevented the mapping into XLIFF 2.0
12:59:03 <fsasaki> .. so mappnig will cover XLIFF 1.2 and 2.0
12:59:11 <fsasaki> .. for Rome we concentrated on 1.2
12:59:24 <fsasaki> .. the methods choosen for 1.2 where choosen so that they could be adopted
13:00:27 <fsasaki> pedro: if there are chnages to html5 tranlate after june we won't have resources
13:00:37 <fsasaki> .. we need to close implementations, need to have stability
13:00:49 <fsasaki> felix: my goal is to close all unstable within april
13:01:35 <fsasaki> .. also dfaults need to be finalized in April
13:04:06 <fsasaki> topic: aob
13:04:13 <fsasaki> discussion on EU deliverable timing
13:04:34 <dF> sorry, guys, I need to run..
13:05:08 <dF> I saw the googledoc, fine with UL
13:05:14 <dF> bye
13:05:20 <dF> :-)
13:05:54 <Arle> Felix, let's discuss tomorrow when I'm in.
13:07:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
13:07:48 <fsasaki> action: talk to Cocomore about HTML defaults
13:07:48 <trackbot> Error finding 'talk'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/users>.
13:07:52 <fsasaki> action: felix to talk to Cocomore about HTML defaults
13:07:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-489 - Talk to Cocomore about HTML defaults [on Felix Sasaki - due 2013-04-17].
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13:21:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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