12:50:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #a11y-bugs
12:50:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-a11y-bugs-irc
12:50:29 <LJWatson> zakim, this will be 2119
12:50:29 <Zakim> ok, LJWatson; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)9:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
12:50:44 <LJWatson> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
12:51:00 <LJWatson> LJWatson has changed the topic to: HTML A11y TF bug triage weekly telecon
12:51:19 <LJWatson> Meeting: HTML A11y TF bug triage weekly telecon
12:51:24 <LJWatson> Chair: Léonie Watson
12:51:36 <LJWatson> agenda+ New bugs review
12:51:47 <LJWatson> agenda+ Open bugs review
12:51:53 <LJWatson> zakim, save agenda
12:52:00 <Zakim> ok, LJWatson, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-a11y-bugs-agenda.rdf
12:57:00 <hhillen> hhillen has joined #a11y-bugs
13:00:39 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)9:00AM has now started
13:00:47 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
13:03:31 <Zakim> + +44.117.929.aaaa
13:04:38 <Zakim> +Cooper
13:06:49 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
13:06:49 <Zakim> agendum 1. "New bugs review" taken up [from LJWatson]
13:07:12 <LJWatson> Scribe: Hans Hillen
13:07:34 <hhillen> scribe: hhillen
13:07:47 <hhillen> HH: 16 new bugs
13:08:16 <hhillen> HH: Majority were bugs from Leif about longdesc
13:08:36 <hhillen> HH: not sure if we need to track these
13:09:08 <hhillen> LW: Just add the number to the chat, Charles is probably on top of those since it's his extension
13:09:54 <hhillen> HH: Longdesc related bugs:
13:09:59 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21436&list_id=7384
13:10:00 <hhillen>  @longdesc should, like @src, be a valid *non-empty* URL.
13:10:02 <hhillen>  Longdesc related, Fixed, no need to track
13:10:03 <hhillen>  https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21437&list_id=7384
13:10:05 <hhillen>   Say that @longdesc should point to *accessible* descriptions
13:10:06 <hhillen>  Longdesc related, not sure if this needs to be tracked
13:10:08 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21438&list_id=7384
13:10:09 <hhillen> Relocate the informative NOTE on authoring Best Practices to where it is relevant.
13:10:11 <hhillen>   Not sure if this needs to be tracked
13:10:12 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21493&list_id=7384
13:10:14 <hhillen> Describe the longdesc link rot issue and suggest how to combat it
13:10:15 <hhillen> Longdesc related, not sure if this needs to be tracked
13:10:17 <hhillen>   https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21494&list_id=7384
13:10:18 <hhillen>   Describe data URIs as a valid use of the longdesc attribute
13:10:20 <hhillen> Longdesc related, not sure if this needs to be tracked
13:10:21 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21501&list_id=7384
13:10:23 <hhillen> Advice to conformance checkers section
13:10:24 <hhillen> Longdesc related, not sure if this needs to be tracked
13:10:26 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21564&list_id=7384
13:10:27 <hhillen> Allow ATs/UAs to use heuristics to suppress presentation of erroneous or pointless longdescs
13:10:29 <hhillen> Longdesc related, not sure if this needs to be tracked
13:10:30 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21565&list_id=7384
13:10:32 <hhillen> Should it be an error to use @longdesc on presentational images? And/Or should it _affect_ the role of the image?
13:10:33 <hhillen> Longdesc related, not sure if this needs to be tracked
13:10:35 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21566&list_id=7384
13:10:36 <hhillen> User agents must present longdesc through normal interfaces.
13:10:38 <hhillen> Longdesc related, not sure if this needs to be tracked
13:10:39 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21571&list_id=7384
13:10:40 <hhillen> The sub-sentence "but there are many resources available" etc.
13:10:41 <hhillen> Longdesc related, not sure if this needs to be tracked
13:10:41 <hhillen> HH: Additional bugs:
13:10:59 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21420
13:11:55 <hhillen> Bug 21420 - note about conforming image is incorrect
13:11:56 <hhillen> No need to track
13:12:21 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21421&list_id=7384
13:12:21 <hhillen> add aria-label and aria-valuetext to list of translatable attributes in html 5.1
13:13:23 <hhillen> HH: no need to track
13:15:44 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21579&list_id=7384
13:15:51 <hhillen> Empty @alt should not imply role="presentation" if the <img> has @usemap
13:16:27 <hhillen> LW: We should probably push this up to the TF, I will get their decision on it and if necessary add the keyword later.
13:16:35 <Zakim> +??P15
13:16:40 <Zakim> -Cooper
13:16:45 <hhillen> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21615&list_id=7384
13:16:55 <hhillen>  refer to details not summary in reference to open element
13:17:46 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
13:18:01 <MichaelC> hh: seemed editorial
13:18:06 <MichaelC> lw: agree
13:18:44 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21623
13:18:53 <MichaelC> hh: editorial, looking for example, no need to track
13:18:55 <MichaelC> lw: agree
13:19:05 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21563
13:19:28 <MichaelC> hh: this essentially functions as Steve´s announcement that he plans to remove hgroup from the spec
13:19:55 <MichaelC> lw: no need for TF tracking of the bug
13:20:15 <MichaelC> mc: are we happy with the decision to remove hgroup? There were various opinions
13:21:26 <MichaelC> lw: there´s discussion about using <small> element for sub-headings
13:21:42 <MichaelC> mc: seems worse than hgroup
13:21:42 <MichaelC> lw: agree
13:21:42 <MichaelC> hh: what is point of hgroup
13:22:04 <MichaelC> mc: for sub-headings
13:23:08 <MichaelC> do see value in it
13:24:22 <MichaelC> though lots of room for author misunderstanding and a11y problems from bad implementation
13:24:29 <MichaelC> lw: can take to TF
13:24:49 <MichaelC> hh: seems marginal value compared to other stuff we´re working on
13:25:42 <MichaelC> mc: see no value in pushing if it´s not implemented
13:26:01 <MichaelC> but too bad, thought was good to meet the use case
13:26:11 <MichaelC> hh: you could meet this with ARIA, and aria-level
13:26:44 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
13:26:44 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Open bugs review" taken up [from LJWatson]
13:27:30 <LJWatson> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?keywords=a11ytf%2C%20&query_format=advanced&keywords_type=allwords&list_id=3940&bug_status=NEW
13:30:18 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9280
13:30:42 <MichaelC> looks like this was moved to WhatWG product, and Ian started processing
13:30:51 <MichaelC> lw: a couple seem to be assigned to CSS, why do they have TF keyword
13:32:36 <MichaelC> mc: they may have been originally HTML bugs that were subsequently moved to other groups
13:32:55 <MichaelC> may be legitimate to do that, we´ve seen bugs that were more appropriate to another spec
13:33:05 <MichaelC> lw: but then they´re not TF bugs, they´re PF issues
13:33:17 <MichaelC> mc: yes, something to worry about process-wise to hand off
13:33:23 <MichaelC> lw: will raise question with TF
13:33:55 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=9544
13:34:09 <MichaelC> mc: has TF keyword, but we never triaged this in
13:36:04 <MichaelC> somebody just randomly added it, not sure who that person is
13:36:08 <MichaelC> lw: will remove TF keyword
13:36:34 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=12999
13:38:52 <MichaelC> another one moved to WhatWG, but cloned to HTML as 19039
13:39:09 <MichaelC> lw: so can move the TF keyword from the WhatWG one, and just track the HTML one
13:40:21 <MichaelC> but that one was promptly marked resolved later, so we´ll need to track that
13:40:39 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=13576
13:40:45 <MichaelC> mc: also moved to WhatWG
13:41:08 <MichaelC> again cloned to make 19044
13:41:23 <MarkS> MarkS has joined #a11y-bugs
13:42:06 <MichaelC> similarly promptly marked as resolved later
13:42:42 <MichaelC> lw: we´ll look at resolved later next week
13:49:50 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
13:49:54 <Zakim> - +44.117.929.aaaa
13:49:55 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
13:49:57 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML_TF)9:00AM has ended
13:49:57 <Zakim> Attendees were [IPcaller], +44.117.929.aaaa, Cooper, Michael_Cooper
13:50:01 <hhillen> RRSAgent, make minutes
13:50:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-a11y-bugs-minutes.html hhillen
14:00:52 <hhillen> Zakim, please part
14:00:52 <Zakim> Zakim has left #a11y-bugs
14:03:30 <hhillen> MichaelC: The minutes link leads to a 404 page, is there something else I need to do?
14:21:41 <hhillen> hhillen has joined #a11y-bugs
15:50:54 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
15:50:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-a11y-bugs-minutes.html MichaelC
15:51:22 <MichaelC> present: Léonie_Watson, Hans_Hillen, Michael_Cooper
15:51:36 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
15:51:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-a11y-bugs-minutes.html MichaelC
15:51:40 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
15:51:40 <RRSAgent> I see no action items