15:57:53 RRSAgent has joined #htmlt 15:57:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/09-htmlt-irc 15:59:04 Bin_ has joined #HTMLT 16:00:00 Here is the agenda I posted http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-testsuite/2013Apr/0004.html 16:00:47 We can wait a few more minutes to see if anyone else attends (tobie?) 16:01:52 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:02:31 present+ Bin_Hu 16:03:40 OK let's get rolling! 16:04:02 * maybe mdyck will come back? 16:04:23 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:04:38 * Indeed mdyck is back 16:05:17 The first agenda item I had was the April F2F at eBay 16:05:28 Will others be attending? 16:06:05 I will be attending 16:06:26 One item t discuss (part webapps) would be organization of the github repository 16:06:53 For example I noticed some stuff that had approved/submitted folders 16:07:12 Which I didn't think was the intent 16:08:04 bin: good to hear 16:08:14 Yes, I am listening 16:08:26 sorry 16:08:49 so what is your proposal of organizing the github repository? 16:08:53 darobin/jgraham are you following? 16:10:48 Kris: only you and me here? 16:11:16 I am not proposing and thing per se - just wondering what the 'intent' is since it looks like some stuff is not following the practice that was intially setup 16:12:24 I guess when some group migrates to github, they may have their own naming convention or convention of folder structure 16:14:53 Kris: when you mentioned "following the practice", is the practice documented somewhere? 16:15:12 hang tight and I'll add a link 16:17:07 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:21:35 Kris: are we done here? 16:21:47 Here bin - https://github.com/w3c/html 16:22:17 Now this is for the HTML spec 16:23:15 I see. Thanks. So the diagram specifies the convention for HTML spec. But other WG may not follow it, right? 16:23:28 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:24:52 Now look at this example pull request https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/pull/69 16:26:04 Then look at https://github.com/w3c/web-platform-tests/tree/CR 16:26:41 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:27:48 OK, the first pull request added to directory "IndexedDB/submissions/TestTWF_Paris/rhuet/" 16:29:33 Now every so often a script is ran that takes stuff in master and the cr branches and moves them to http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/CR 16:29:38 and http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master 16:30:15 If you look at http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/ you'll see all kinds of stuff that is not specific to the HTML WG 16:31:39 Now back in December it was discussed and CR would map to the HTML5 spec and HTML5.1 would be in 'master' 16:31:58 I hear you. So irrelevant stuff were put there 16:32:21 Maybe irrelevant is too strong of a word :) 16:32:46 sorry :) 16:32:53 I think it's valueable to have a known good set of tests, thus the 'CR' branch 16:33:29 I think so too. We need a known, stable, and goos set of test suites 16:33:32 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:33:51 mdyck2 has joined #htmlt 16:33:58 Though if stuff just gets merged right into master then master starts to lose value since it's not clear that the tests are correct 16:34:17 Do you want to discuss it in F2F in San Jose? Request an agenda item there? 16:34:29 yes 16:35:16 For example we have some test suites in the 'master' branch and the spec is at REC 16:35:18 e.g. http://w3c-test.org/web-platform-tests/master/SelectorsAPI/Status.html 16:35:27 I support to discuss it, because a stable, known good test suite is essential to vendors and service providers to have more confidence of the test result 16:35:47 Which I'd expect to have this set of tests in the 'CR' branch 16:36:12 but it's only in the 'master' branch 16:36:41 OK, thanks 16:36:42 That's right. Once spec is REC, and test suite is stable, "master" branch should be "locked" 16:37:43 The next agenda item is that their is a test the web forward event this Friday and Saturday in Seattle 16:38:03 "CR" branch should be open to those CR spec, and the new tests that have been reviewed and known good 16:38:41 And the tests for others should be reviewed and ratified first before puttint it to CR 16:39:08 Yes, from our AT&T side, Bryan, Dan and Jen will be there 16:39:14 yes 16:39:24 at the F2F? 16:39:27 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:39:37 Here is a link to the event http://testthewebforward.org/ 16:39:45 I meant "Test the Web Forward" event in Seattle 16:39:52 Oh nice! 16:40:16 I'll be asking for some people to focus on writting HTML5 tests 16:40:18 I won't be there, because I am located in San Jose area. 16:40:30 no problem 16:41:02 So I will definitely be attending everything in San Jose area, like this F2F and any future events 16:41:09 cool 16:41:32 The last agena item was to do some more spec classification of the HTML5 spec 16:41:49 This time, we may not be able to contribute HTML5 tests to this Test the Web ofrward event in Seattle 16:41:54 starting with http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/infrastructure.html#conformance-requirements 16:42:02 any reason? 16:42:34 CSS WG also needs some tests to move a few spec forward (background, border radius) 16:43:44 we are trying, but cannot promise anything 16:43:52 resources and time constraint 16:44:05 IMHO though 2.2 Conformance requirements has some 'MUST's it's just definitions and no actual tests are needed 16:44:27 Which is not clear on the coverage report http://w3c-test.org/html-testsuite/master/tools/coverage/ 16:44:36 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:45:29 does anyone disagree? 16:45:32 That's right 16:45:37 agre 16:45:42 mdyck? 16:45:50 yes? 16:46:09 OK lets move on to http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/infrastructure.html#conformance-classes 16:47:24 This is a bigger section and the coverage report lists that it has no tests and normative requirements exist 16:48:07 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:48:37 Indeed this part of the spec needs some tests 16:48:58 For example 16:48:59 A conforming XHTML processor would, upon finding an XHTML script element in an XML document, execute the script contained in that element. However, if the element is found within a transformation expressed in XSLT (assuming the user agent also supports XSLT), then the processor would instead treat the script element as an opaque element that forms part of the transform. 16:49:12 and... 16:49:13 Web browsers that support the XHTML syntax must process elements and attributes from the HTML namespace found in XML documents as described in this specification 16:50:23 Good catch 16:51:17 So specifically in this section "Web browsers and other interactive user agents" need a few tests 16:51:31 Agree 16:51:39 Conforming HTML5 documents just looks like a definition 16:52:06 That's right 16:52:09 Same with 'Non-interactive presentation user agents' 16:52:18 mdyck has joined #HTMLT 16:53:13 Visual user agents that support the suggested default rendering is also a definition with the expectation that tests will come from the 'rendering section' of the spec 16:53:22 e.g. http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/rendering.html#rendering 16:53:32 Correct 16:53:59 Looks like User agents with no scripting support is also a definition 16:54:11 is the test suite just for testing user agents, or also for testing things like conformance-checkers? 16:54:31 That is a good question 16:54:58 The role of the test suite to make sure that two or more implementations can be created that are interoperable 16:55:27 So I would presume that we would want/expect a conformance checker to be able to be created using the spec 16:56:01 So you would need a test for a conformance checker - maybe a page that then is ran by the checker 16:56:55 ...itself and would report conformance issues 16:57:26 Is the Conformance Checker itself considered a sort of "test suite"? 16:58:07 Let's talk about this at the next meeting, it's alomst 10am (pacific time) and I need to head to another meeting 16:58:17 ok 16:58:24 Me too, another meeting in 2 minutes 16:58:36 Since I expect this will not quick converstation 16:58:38 Thank you Kirs, and see you in San Jose 16:58:44 OK let's adjourn 16:59:00 sounds good 16:59:15 RRAAgent, make logs public 16:59:21 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:59:46 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:59:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/09-htmlt-minutes.html krisk 17:03:00 mdyck has left #HTMLT 18:17:17 Ms2ger has joined #HTMLT