15:00:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #egov
15:00:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/05-egov-irc
15:00:49 <PhilA> zakim, this is egov
15:00:49 <Zakim> ok, PhilA; that matches T&S_EGOV(Atlantic)11:00AM
15:01:17 <Zakim> + +1.703.281.aadd
15:01:34 <Zakim> +??P12
15:02:50 <LarsG> LarsG has joined #egov
15:03:57 <HadleyBeeman> zakim, what's the code?
15:03:58 <Zakim> the conference code is 3468 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), HadleyBeeman
15:04:23 <Jeanne_Holm> Telecon line: Dial +1-617-761-6200 or sip:zakim@voip.w3.org then conference code 3468# ("EGOV#")
15:04:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:04:38 <PhilA> zakim, ipcaller.a is me
15:04:38 <Zakim> +PhilA; got it
15:04:50 <Jeanne_Holm> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/Main_Page#Upcoming_Meetings for the agenda and minutes of past meetings
15:04:51 <Zakim> +HadleyBeeman
15:05:47 <Zakim> + +88697069aaee
15:06:07 <thschee> zakim, +88697069aaee is me
15:06:07 <Zakim> +thschee; got it
15:06:18 <Brand_Niemann> Brand_Niemann has joined #egov
15:06:23 <PhilA> zakim, aadd is Brand_Niemann
15:06:23 <Zakim> +Brand_Niemann; got it
15:06:31 <PhilA> zakim, who is here?
15:06:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P2, [IPcaller], +1.508.333.aaaa (muted), +1.818.434.aabb, +1.413.652.aacc, Brand_Niemann, ??P12, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, thschee
15:06:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see Brand_Niemann, LarsG, RRSAgent, Zakim, PhilA, MartinMurillo, Gwyn_S, Jeanne_Holm, GannonDick, HadleyBeeman, KNY, bhyland, TallTed, thschee, heath, trackbot
15:06:57 <GannonDick> zakim, aaaa is me
15:06:57 <Zakim> +GannonDick; got it
15:07:08 <PhilA> zakim, aabb is Jeanne_Holm
15:07:08 <Zakim> +Jeanne_Holm; got it
15:07:39 <PhilA> zakim, aacc is Brian_Handspicker
15:07:39 <Zakim> +Brian_Handspicker; got it
15:08:31 <PhilA> scribe: PhilA
15:08:38 <PhilA> scribeNick: PhilA
15:08:48 <thschee> yes i am online but its 23:00
15:09:37 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Introduces meeting
15:09:47 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: This is the 10th meeting on open data
15:10:10 <PhilA> ... we began with a bunch of questions we wanted to answer. Tomasz has done a lot of work to pull together what we've heard
15:10:57 <PhilA> http://www.w3.org/2013/04/odw/
15:11:34 <LarsG> See you there
15:11:41 <Jeanne_Holm> Huge amount of activities going on in London and other cities April 23 and 24 on open data
15:11:44 <PhilA> http://www.w3.org/2013/04/odw/evening
15:11:44 <Jeanne_Holm> "Big Data Week"
15:11:45 <HadleyBeeman> Looking forward to it
15:12:58 <PhilA> topic: Martin Murillo
15:13:15 <Jeanne_Holm> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/4/4f/EIT_-_Martin_Murillo_-_eGov_IG_Presentation.pdf for presentation
15:14:10 <Zakim> +bhyland
15:14:41 <PhilA> Martin: Slide 2 - the government loop
15:15:00 <PhilA> slide 3 Recentresearch[1]hasfoundthattransparencyisnotenoughforthereductionofcorruption.Importantnecessaryconditions,publicityandaccountability,mustalsobepresent:
15:15:17 <PhilA> oops - copying from the PDF isn't good :-(
15:15:48 <PhilA> Martin: Citiznes need to receive and understand the info - govers need to be accountable
15:15:55 <PhilA> s/govers/govs/
15:16:42 <PhilA> slide 4 - agent-principal framework
15:16:53 <Zakim> + +1.919.617.aaff
15:17:45 <PhilA> Martin: 2 types of trabsparency, agent controlled and non-agent controlled
15:18:00 <PhilA> s/trabsparency/transparency/
15:18:13 <Hatem> Hatem has joined #egov
15:18:36 <PhilA> ... non agent controlled often represented by a free press
15:18:47 <Zakim> + +1.301.384.aagg
15:19:08 <PhilA> Martin: points to measures of transparency
15:19:13 <Zakim> +??P28
15:19:17 <PhilA> Martin: slide 5
15:19:51 <Owen> Owen has joined #egov
15:20:28 <PhilA> MartinMurillo: slide 7
15:20:45 <PhilA> ... various tools we could use to measure transparency
15:21:13 <PhilA> ... not a statistical study but is qualitative
15:21:36 <PhilA> scribe note - it's hard to hear Martin but we're doing our best to hear what he's saying
15:22:21 <Zakim> -HadleyBeeman
15:22:25 <HadleyBeeman> HadleyBeeman has left #egov
15:24:38 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Picks up at slide 11
15:25:04 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Correlation between institutional transparency and the effect that it has
15:25:36 <Zakim> +??P3
15:25:49 <PhilA> ... civil society, advocacy groups etc. making requests does have an effect
15:25:53 <PhilA> zakim, mute ??P3
15:25:53 <Zakim> ??P3 should now be muted
15:26:52 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: On slide 12 Martin notes that we're not as able as we'd like to get machine readable data out there. TimBL's 5 stars are hard to climb
15:27:02 <Martin_Murillo> Martin_Murillo has joined #egov
15:27:05 <Hatem> sorry :) muted myself
15:27:34 <PhilA> Slides are pretty detailed in terms of conclusions
15:27:45 <Zakim> +??P29
15:27:55 <Martin_Murillo> Thanks Phil. Sorry connection problems.
15:28:14 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Martin talked about digital divide, tech capability etc.
15:28:33 <PhilA> it happens Martin_Murillo - no one's fault. Jeanne_Holm is working through the remainder of your slide deck
15:28:41 <PhilA> please add to IRC if you can
15:29:11 <Martin_Murillo> Thanks Jeanne!
15:30:12 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: hypercharged version of the ?unstransparent? and knowledge/empowerment divided real world
15:31:37 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Summarising - Martin_Murillo notes that there are many aspects to the digital divide. It's not just access to expensive equipment (scribe summary, not ther words used)
15:31:57 <Jeanne_Holm> Are there any question for Marin?
15:32:18 <PhilA> Martin_Murillo: Thanks Jeanne for doing that. I'm happy to answer questions on IRC or by mail
15:32:51 <PhilA> Final quote - A computer does not substitute for judgment any more than a pencil substitutes for literacy. But writing ability without a pencil is no particular advantage
15:32:51 <Gwyn_S> great topic.  will have to read over more carefully
15:33:00 <Gwyn_S> thanks martin
15:33:39 <GannonDick> q+
15:34:22 <Gwyn_S> I feel like martin said something interesting, but I couldn't hear it
15:34:58 <PhilA> Martin_Murillo: (I think) talking about an empowerment divide cf. 'simple' digital divide
15:35:16 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: And I think he also talked about a data divide
15:35:28 <Martin_Murillo> Africa's Internet connectividy (broadband) is 17%; by 2020, it will be only 25%!
15:35:48 <Martin_Murillo> thus all audiences must be included in any initiative.
15:35:50 <Jeanne_Holm> ack GannonDick
15:35:55 <PhilA> PhilA: Notes that 50% of EU citizens of never been online so Africa isn't *that* far behind
15:36:04 <Gwyn_S> but 3G in africa by 2015 will be like eastern europe
15:36:06 <Zakim> -Brian_Handspicker
15:36:23 <Jeanne_Holm> Wow, Phil.  50% of EU citizens? That's enlightening.
15:36:38 <PhilA> GannonDick: That point about hypercharged... is thet effect convergent in time or something that will be forever divergent/parallel, meaning that if we do something today to...
15:36:58 <PhilA> ... to increase/identify transparency that it will ahve a convergent effect, making the digital divide go away
15:37:04 <Zakim> +??P9
15:38:08 <PhilA> Martin_Murillo: Historically, it's the same as the industrial revolution - it affects people differntly (scribe being liberal with re-wording probably inaccurate)
15:38:18 <Jeanne_Holm> ...important to consider cultural, religion, and other issues that are important in understanding the different views
15:38:25 <PhilA> PhilA: Figure varies. UK it's 15%, Jeanne_Holm
15:38:54 <PhilA> Martin_Murillo: Africa has been labelled as a 'mobile only' continent
15:39:04 <PhilA> ... think black and white only, text only
15:39:30 <PhilA> PhilA: really? Martin_Murillo??  I thought even cheap phones were more powerful, no?
15:40:08 <PhilA> Martin_Murillo: People fear that the Internet will be Balkanised as a response to cyber attacks
15:40:34 <PhilA> Martin_Murillo: Lots of issues to consider.
15:40:51 <Zakim> +Brian_Handspicker
15:41:06 <PhilA> PhilA: Apologises to Martin_Murillo for only getting some of what you're saying and probably recording what I do hear inaccurately
15:41:33 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Thanks Martin_Murillo
15:41:49 <PhilA> ... appreciate your struggling with the digital divide today!
15:42:14 <PhilA> Martin_Murillo: Once I'm back in Canada I'll be able to have a better connection
15:42:14 <Martin_Murillo> Thank you all!
15:42:36 <PhilA> topic: data.gov and the US efforts
15:42:54 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: I realised I'd not talked about this so I wanted to briefly highlight some changes that are coming
15:42:59 <GannonDick> slides or it never happened
15:43:04 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: A lot of you know what we're doing
15:43:12 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: slides at http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/8/8f/DataGov_April_2013.pdf
15:43:42 <neeta> neeta has joined #egov
15:43:53 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Brief summary. data.gov is the US gov initiative, from the CIO in the White House
15:44:00 <PhilA> ... we get very high level support
15:44:05 <bdhandspicker> bdhandspicker has joined #egov
15:44:19 <Zakim> -??P28
15:44:44 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Also get support from the World Bank and others
15:45:04 <PhilA> ... separates federal and state level government (and cities)
15:45:31 <PhilA> ... means that developers at hackathons can't get to data from different gov levels typically
15:45:59 <PhilA> ... launched cities.data.gov and .... ?? missed it
15:46:01 <Martin_Murillo> Africa as a "mobile-only" continent: http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/04/tech/mobile/africa-mobile-opinion
15:46:16 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Slide 3
15:47:05 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Having a site that just does open data separately from anything else is hard to maintain/justify. So it's now part of something bigger, part of hte core mission
15:47:16 <PhilA> ... calls for significant changes in our infrastructure
15:47:22 <PhilA> ... needed a more agile architecture
15:47:34 <PhilA> ... so hence the move from Socrata to CKAN
15:48:03 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: We want to provide access to the data anda context for it
15:48:16 <PhilA> alpha.data.gov is the story around the data
15:48:38 <PhilA> The stories around what happens to a data set and how it helps are embedded in the new site
15:49:25 <Zakim> + +1.571.332.aahh
15:49:44 <PhilA> ... lots of examples of economic benefit, and how it sometimes literally saves lives
15:49:55 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Our Communities also create context
15:50:05 <PhilA> ... policies, events etc. that help to make sense of the data
15:50:26 <PhilA> ... our energy and safety communities are really strong at the mo - see slide 16
15:51:10 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Talking about New Horizons oil spill and its impact
15:51:34 <PhilA> ... created data sets around that. Did similar following the japanese earthquake
15:51:41 <PhilA> s/16/13/
15:52:04 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Now we're on slide 16
15:52:15 <PhilA> ... recently had a big storm on the east coast (Sandy)
15:52:43 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: People were still trying to get around of course, even with flooded tunnels etc.
15:52:50 <PhilA> ... visualisations helped direct people
15:53:20 <PhilA> ... developers worked with the transportation folks to visualise what the options were
15:53:29 <PhilA> ... over 700K downloads on the first vweekend
15:53:41 <PhilA> ... agile infrastructure was important
15:53:49 <PhilA> ... can modify data presentation easily
15:53:56 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Skip to slide 20
15:54:08 <PhilA> ... code for OGPL is open source (on Github)
15:54:23 <PhilA> ... being used in India, talking to Canada and Rwanda
15:54:44 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: There's a fork to include CKAN and other forks
15:55:07 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Slide 21 - where we've been and where we're headed
15:55:29 <Zakim> -??P9
15:55:51 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: We're focused on APIs - trying to provide APIs for most data sets
15:56:53 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: US spends a ton on research that produces data that isn't always accessible - working on that, making it all accessible
15:57:13 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: So that's what we're doing and felt that I needed to make sure the US was covered
15:57:16 <Jeanne_Holm> Any questions?
15:58:37 <PhilA> PhilA: Any push back on the use of URIs as identifiers for things?
15:58:49 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Not really. People see we need persistent methodologies
15:59:01 <PhilA> ... there are some tech issues on the implementation
15:59:10 <PhilA> ... may be related to moving to CKAN/Drupal
15:59:22 <PhilA> ... some messy details right now
15:59:33 <PhilA> ... but it will be resolved
15:59:58 <PhilA> ... agreement has gone from people not knowing what a URI was to being very supportive
16:00:00 <bhyland> q+
16:00:11 <PhilA> Jeanne_Holm: Looking at DCAT and schema.org
16:01:08 <Jeanne_Holm> ack bhyland
16:01:11 <PhilA> ack bhyland
16:01:37 <PhilA> bhyland: we're at last call for the 3 Rec Track covabularies - ORG, DCAT and QB
16:01:47 <PhilA> bhyland: We've sent out a lot of mail about this :-)
16:01:52 <bdhandspicker> Jeanne, Phil, I can take over scribing if you need...
16:02:01 <PhilA> bhyland: next face to face meeting is next week in Dublin
16:02:02 <Jeanne_Holm> Brian, thank you!!!
16:02:28 <PhilA> scribe: bdhandspicker
16:02:36 <PhilA> scribeNick: bdhandspicker
16:03:06 <Zakim> -PhilA
16:03:19 <bhyland> Open Data Policy from the US White House has a lot of details about publication of government open data
16:03:19 <Zakim> -??P12
16:03:20 <PhilA> rrsagent, make logs public
16:03:31 <PhilA> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:03:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/05-egov-minutes.html PhilA
16:03:51 <bdhandspicker> Jeanne: There are two areas being announced - schema.org and open data policy of white house
16:03:53 <bhyland> Jeanne: Schema.org and Open Data Policy (in review a long time) is forthcoming.
16:04:20 <bdhandspicker> Jeanne: A lot of public comments on the draft version, so some interesting changes coming
16:05:32 <bdhandspicker> Presentation by Lisa and Thomas summarizing meetings on Open Goverment Data
16:05:58 <Brand_Niemann> Yesterday's Third Annual Government Big Data Forum: Big Data in the Age of Analytics: From Infrastructure to Sense Making: http://semanticommunity.info/Third_Annual_Government_Big_Data_Forum#Story for new strategy for making OGD Big Data
16:06:04 <bdhandspicker> It is a work in progress, missing last couple of meetings but can be added to by community
16:07:01 <Jeanne_Holm> http://www.w3.org/egov/wiki/images/5/5b/Open_government_data_5.pdf is the presentation
16:07:16 <bdhandspicker> Intend is to create a formal paper based on our joint work
16:11:30 <bhyland> scribe: bhyland
16:11:37 <bdhandspicker> bdhandspicker has joined #egov
16:11:49 <bdhandspicker> Test...
16:11:58 <bdhandspicker> OK, I"m back
16:12:07 <Brand_Niemann> Example of OMB Dominic Sale's new Digital Government Strategy for OGD applied to Todd Park's Health Data Palooza IV and Redesigning Data's Innovation Challenge: http://semanticommunity.info/Health_Datapalooza_IV#Story
16:12:22 <bhyland> scribe: bdhanspicker
16:12:38 <bdhandspicker> Slide 6 - Where eGov is deployed... local, national, global
16:13:00 <bdhandspicker> Slide 6 - What is eGov and what are good exemplars
16:13:35 <bdhandspicker> Slide 6 - Themes across all the presentations
16:14:26 <bdhandspicker> Slide 10 - Summarizes the cases presented by various participants over the  course of the group meetings
16:15:53 <bdhandspicker> Each of 20 cases are evaluated based on how they address the questions "What", "Why", "How", and "Where"
16:18:39 <bdhandspicker> Slide 33 - Conclusions Overview: The dimensions of the questions what, why, how, where
16:19:26 <bdhandspicker> Slide 35: The characteristics of the What Dimension
16:20:33 <bdhandspicker> Slide 36-37: The characteristics of the Why Dimension
16:22:00 <bdhandspicker_> bdhandspicker_ has joined #egov
16:22:25 <bdhandspicker_> Slide 38-39: The characteristics of the How Dimension
16:22:42 <bdhandspicker_> S;ide 40-41: The characteristics of the Where Dimension
16:23:43 <bhyland> q+
16:23:48 <bdhandspicker_> Slide 42: Conclusion
16:23:50 <GannonDick> q+
16:23:50 <Jeanne_Holm> ack bhyland
16:24:12 <Zakim> -??P3
16:24:28 <Hatem> Hatem has left #egov
16:24:31 <bdhandspicker_> bhyland: Question: How to articulate our open data publishing efforts (breaking up)
16:25:07 <Jeanne_Holm> bhyland: Are you planning to articulate the ROI or greater value proposition of broader initiatives on innovation?
16:25:57 <Owen> Sandro noted the eGov IG's charter is nearing its expiration date and that folks should consider joining the new communities.  What are the plans for the IG?
16:26:04 <bdhandspicker> bdhandspicker has joined #egov
16:26:57 <bdhandspicker> Jeanne: we are hoping for more government researchers to present on the resulting value proposition associated with their use cases.
16:27:13 <Jeanne_Holm> ack GannonDick
16:27:48 <bdhandspicker> Gannon: Make clear that GIS stands for Government Information Systems not Geography... Geometry... etc.
16:29:16 <bhyland> TLA's are not unique to the government.  All organizations use them, from the military to private sector
16:29:42 <bdhandspicker> Brand: Big Data meetings happening... see comments above with links to results of meetings/conferences
16:30:26 <bdhandspicker> Make all government data "big data"
16:31:30 <bdhandspicker> Jeanne: Not a lot of our discussions have been specific to "big data", perhaps because of our timing and the ongoing maturing of the big data concept
16:31:43 <bhyland> @Jeanne, @Martin, et al.  Thank you for sharing your respective updates today.  Must leave for another call.
16:31:50 <Zakim> -bhyland
16:32:15 <bdhandspicker> Brand: Would be interesting to work with data across multiple data sets to identify new relationships between the data sets
16:32:55 <bdhandspicker> Brand: the real interesting results come from adding new relationships between data sets, making it "big data", then adding even more data set relationships
16:33:55 <bdhandspicker> Brand: Recommend that the government have a Chief Data Officer with a team of Data Scientists to work on interesting problems across multiple government data sets
16:34:39 <bdhandspicker> Brand: In some cases the laws don't allow creating relationships between some data sets, e.g. census, tax, etc.
16:35:48 <bdhandspicker> Brand: Broader transparency efforts now have a mandate in the hurricane relief domain to identify both opportunities and fraud, waste and abuse
16:37:49 <bdhandspicker> Thomas will put out an upcoming agenda ideas for review by the group
16:38:12 <Zakim> -Brand_Niemann
16:38:12 <bdhandspicker> The charter is coming up for review and we may be retitle a community group rather than an interest group
16:38:13 <Zakim> - +1.301.384.aagg
16:38:14 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:38:15 <Zakim> - +1.571.332.aahh
16:38:17 <bdhandspicker> Thank you all
16:38:17 <GannonDick> bye, thanks
16:38:17 <Zakim> -??P29
16:38:21 <Zakim> -GannonDick
16:38:39 <Zakim> -Jeanne_Holm
16:38:43 <bdhandspicker> zakim, list attendees
16:38:43 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been [IPcaller], +1.508.333.aaaa, +1.818.434.aabb, +1.413.652.aacc, +1.703.281.aadd, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, thschee, Brand_Niemann, GannonDick,
16:38:47 <Zakim> ... Jeanne_Holm, Brian_Handspicker, bhyland, +1.919.617.aaff, +1.301.384.aagg, +1.571.332.aahh
16:39:03 <bdhandspicker> rrsagent, please draft minutes
16:39:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/05-egov-minutes.html bdhandspicker
16:39:33 <bdhandspicker> zakim, bye
16:39:33 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were [IPcaller], +1.508.333.aaaa, +1.818.434.aabb, +1.413.652.aacc, +1.703.281.aadd, PhilA, HadleyBeeman, thschee, Brand_Niemann,
16:39:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #egov
16:39:36 <Zakim> ... GannonDick, Jeanne_Holm, Brian_Handspicker, bhyland, +1.919.617.aaff, +1.301.384.aagg, +1.571.332.aahh
16:39:41 <bdhandspicker> rrsagent, bye
16:39:41 <RRSAgent> I see no action items