16:36:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:36:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-irc
16:36:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:36:55 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
16:36:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:36:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 24 minutes
16:36:58 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:36:58 <trackbot> Date: 04 April 2013
16:37:05 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
16:37:16 <allanj> regrets: kelly
16:37:25 <allanj> chair: JimAllan, KellyFord
16:37:41 <KimPatch> KimPatch has joined #ua
16:37:44 <allanj> title: UAWG telecon 4 April 2013
16:47:38 <allanj> Agenda+ Conformance requirements for platform - finish
16:47:40 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130321/
16:47:41 <allanj> Agenda+ conformance survey
16:47:43 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results finish Required Components
16:47:44 <allanj> Agenda+ Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0
16:47:46 <allanj> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0041.html
16:59:51 <allanj_> allanj_ has joined #ua
17:01:09 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:01:16 <Zakim> +Eric
17:01:34 <Zakim> +Jeanne
17:02:04 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
17:04:06 <Zakim> +Greg_Lowney
17:04:07 <Greg> Greg has joined #ua
17:05:40 <sharper> sharper has joined #ua
17:06:09 <sharper> zakim, code?
17:06:09 <Zakim> the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper
17:06:14 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
17:09:22 <Zakim> +??P12
17:09:28 <sharper> zakim, ??P12 is sharper
17:09:28 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
17:11:18 <allanj> zakim, agenda?
17:11:18 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
17:11:19 <Zakim> 1. Conformance requirements for platform - finish [from allanj]
17:11:19 <Zakim> 2. conformance survey [from allanj]
17:11:19 <Zakim> 3. Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 [from allanj]
17:14:43 <allanj> Discussion of new rendering engines: Blink, Servo. and industry realignment. and existing engines...webkit, IE, etc.
17:15:36 <allanj> regrets+ Jan
17:16:00 <sharper> zakin, agenda?
17:16:07 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
17:16:07 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
17:16:08 <Zakim> 1. Conformance requirements for platform - finish [from allanj]
17:16:08 <Zakim> 2. conformance survey [from allanj]
17:16:08 <Zakim> 3. Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 [from allanj]
17:17:57 <sharper> Conformance requirements for platform - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130321/
17:18:12 <sharper> Conformance survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results finish Required Components
17:18:22 <sharper> Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 - http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0041.html
17:19:24 <sharper> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0005.html
17:19:34 <sharper> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0004.html
17:21:36 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
17:21:36 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Conformance requirements for platform - finish" taken up [from allanj]
17:21:42 <sharper> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0004.html
17:21:47 <sharper> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0005.html
17:22:01 <sharper> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0007.html
17:22:15 <Eric_Hansen> Eric_Hansen has joined #ua
17:23:09 <sharper> GL: discussing item 6 - host web browser - not numbered
17:23:54 <sharper> EH: May not be a correct transcription from the editors versions - should be a separate item.
17:24:24 <sharper> EH: thinks OS etc is already covered under #2
17:26:09 <sharper> KP: which parts are new - which old - first 'bunch the same' lets not look at these
17:26:55 <sharper> GL: different from what JR had - this new one in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0007.html is now confusing.
17:26:57 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130328/MasterUAAG20130404.html#conformance-req-components
17:27:44 <sharper> EH: - for each software component list name, manufacturer, version, config changes.
17:28:05 <sharper>  - more 'thinking on the hoof'
17:29:08 <sharper> EH: discussion re zero software platform - ?
17:29:17 <sharper> SH: is firmware not software?
17:31:25 <sharper> EH/GL: reconfirms - software component - elaborate where it affects the browser examples should be OS, other Software environments, and other catch all - name, manufacturer, version, config changes
17:32:42 <allanj> 2. Version of key software components (e.g., operating system, 'host' web browser, other software environment)
17:32:56 <sharper> GL: channeling JR (who isn't here) re best presentation method - list or paragraph
17:34:28 <sharper> JA: we may be loosing stuff as erics comes from the draft while we have minutes from last week not yet integrated...
17:35:34 <Greg> This was Jan's proposal in email (http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0087.html):
17:35:35 <Greg> Platform: Provide relevant information regarding the software and/or hardware platform(s) on which the user agent depends for conformance. This information may include:
17:35:37 <Greg> - hardware limitations (e.g., audio output enabled, minimum screen size: 2")
17:35:38 <Greg> - operating system(s) (e.g., Windows 8, Android 4.0+, iOS 5.0+, GNOME 2)
17:35:40 <Greg> - other software environment (Java SE 7+, Eclipse 3.7+)
17:35:41 <Greg> - "host" web browser - relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox 14+, Safari 7.0+)
17:35:47 <sharper> JA: list seem prescriptive - paragraph don't - EH tends to agree
17:38:17 <sharper> KP - likes Jans list
17:38:29 <Greg> By contrast, here's the version from Greg, Kim and Eric that Jan suggested replacing with the above:
17:38:30 <Greg> 8.	Platform: Include the name, manufacturer, and version information of operating system, operating environment, and/or application on which the user agent is being hosted. (Example platforms could include Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a hosting web browser, and...
17:38:32 <Greg> ...Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All would include specific version numbers or ranges.) Include any required configuration changes to the platform (e.g.a web-based browser will conform when run on Firefox with the Mouseless Browsing extension) and any relevant hardware limitations (e.g. minimum screen...
17:38:33 <Greg> ...size, audio output).
17:41:27 <sharper> GL: now moving to editorial - should we not delegate to the editors - as long as we can make sure no technical errors introduced into it.
17:41:45 <sharper> GL: lets not do this on the conference call...
17:43:02 <allanj> action: jeanne to add Jan's list to document, remove version numbers from examples, add info about inclusion of version numbers in the conformance claim.
17:43:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-812 - Add Jan's list to document, remove version numbers from examples, add info about inclusion of version numbers in the conformance claim. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-04-11].
17:43:23 <sharper> EH: comment on platform hardware - indicated an intention that it is mandatory to list limitations or hardware - the platforms would be option - name manufacturer hardware number (version etc). All I was going to list was at the end of #2 '(optional)'
17:43:56 <sharper> GL: now seems to be more prominent than platform software.
17:44:16 <sharper> EH: hardware is mandatory - software may not be.
17:44:23 <sharper> SH: as a say - firmware?
17:44:43 <sharper> EH: should be able to say more than the minimum.
17:45:08 <sharper> JS: seems like we are suggesting they list that they tested this on a 'Dell' with windows 8
17:45:36 <sharper> EH: only manditory listing hardware limitations - other would be optional.
17:45:44 <sharper> JS: so #2 would be optional
17:45:51 <sharper> EH: yes
17:46:07 <jeanne> 6.1.2 (Optional) Other information about the platform hardware (e.g., name and manufacturer and version number of the hardware components)
17:46:30 <allanj> ack greg
17:46:31 <sharper> ack Greg
17:47:00 <sharper> GL: though the other version has clearer on this point
17:47:06 <sharper> EH: happy to change
17:47:44 <jeanne> 6.a.1 Key hardware limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal, audio output device [What about input devices]).
17:49:03 <jeanne>  6.a.1 Key hardware limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal, audio output device, any input hardware restrictions).
17:50:51 <allanj> 6.a.2 Other optional information about the platform hardware (e.g., name and manufacturer and version number of the hardware components)
17:51:55 <sharper> RESOLVED: Allow editors (or their delegates) to make changes and present changes - to all before 7 - as they see fit, back to the group.
17:53:06 <sharper> topic: Point 7 of http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0007.html
17:53:07 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130328/MasterUAAG20130404.html#conformance-req-components
17:55:50 <sharper> Discussing preposition for #7 as described in new KP/JS work above - against EH version.
17:56:28 <sharper> EH: maybe impossible to specify the elements that are not included in the set.
17:57:10 <sharper> GL: gives example of including HTML5 and excluding (say) MathML Exemplar Only
17:57:45 <sharper> EH: was not clear to me - burdomsome requirement to describe what they don't support
17:57:56 <Greg> I thought the idea is that they list the web technologies they support, and identify which are supported conforming and which are supported non-conforming.
17:58:16 <jeanne> In the case of video codex, that it would be very difficult to list what codexes are not accessible.
17:58:27 <sharper> EH: thought that people would specify what they where relaying on to meet conformance
17:59:22 <Greg> Are video codices "web technologies"?
17:59:32 <sharper> SH: at least one technology as to be listed in the conformance claim right...?
17:59:44 <sharper> s/as/has
18:00:13 <sharper> EH: could try and refine what I was trying to get at in my edits
18:00:39 <sharper> EH: the content technologies may not be relied upon to meet the claim.
18:01:30 <sharper> GL: Discussion re clarification of this.
18:01:59 <sharper> SH Obviously if this isn't clear to us - it wont be to others...
18:02:23 <Greg> The wording in the editor's draft seems clear to me...
18:03:04 <sharper> s/fri/fyi
18:04:30 <sharper> ack Greg
18:06:09 <sharper> EH/GL: Still trying to understand each other.
18:08:09 <sharper> RESOLVED: EH to try to make this more explicit and clarify the points.
18:09:07 <sharper> Action Eric_Hansen to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes'
18:09:07 <trackbot> Error finding 'Eric_Hansen'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.
18:09:50 <allanj> original: Declarations: For each success criterion: A declaration of whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied; or a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not.
18:10:11 <allanj> proposed: Declarations: Provide, for each success criterion, a declaration of either (a) whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied or (b) a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not. Refer to Note ABC for further information on determining which success criteria may not be applicable.
18:11:30 <sharper> Action: 'member:Eric_Hansen' to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes'
18:12:00 <sharper> Action: Eric_Hansen to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes'
18:12:00 <trackbot> Error finding 'Eric_Hansen'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.
18:12:09 <allanj> Action: Eric to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes'
18:12:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-813 - 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [on Eric Hansen - due 2013-04-11].
18:13:02 <sharper> Comment location: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013AprJun/0005.html
18:13:08 <allanj> comment from Eric: note ABC Platform: Include the name, manufacturer, and version information of operating system, operating environment, and/or application on which the user agent is being hosted. (Example platforms could include Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a...
18:13:10 <allanj> ...hosting web browser, and Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All would include specific version numbers or ranges.) Include any required configuration changes to the platform (e.g.a web-based browser will conform when run on Firefox with the Mouseless Browsing extension) and any relevant hardware limitations (e.g
18:13:11 <allanj> . minimum screen size, audio output).
18:13:36 <sharper> EH removing #8 from eric's document
18:14:15 <sharper> RESOLVED: Edits to be made
18:14:31 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
18:14:31 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
18:14:32 <Zakim> 1. Conformance requirements for platform - finish [from allanj]
18:14:32 <Zakim> 2. conformance survey [from allanj]
18:14:32 <Zakim> 3. Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 [from allanj]
18:14:35 <sharper> zakim, close item 1
18:14:35 <Zakim> agendum 1, Conformance requirements for platform - finish, closed
18:14:36 <sharper> zakim, take up item 2
18:14:37 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
18:14:37 <Zakim> 2. conformance survey [from allanj]
18:14:37 <Zakim> agendum 2. "conformance survey" taken up [from allanj]
18:14:50 <sharper> Conformance survey - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results finish Required Components
18:15:28 <sharper> topic: Optional Components of an UAAG 2.0 Conformance Claim
18:15:30 <sharper> Done
18:15:43 <sharper> topic:"Progress Towards Conformance" Statement
18:15:51 <allanj> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results#xq12
18:16:00 <sharper> http://goo.gl/fnAO9
18:16:28 <sharper> 3-happy / 2 - changes / 1 neutral
18:16:47 <sharper> Jan says Neutral - In ATAG, the vendors said they wouldn't use such a thing.
18:17:10 <sharper> as legal people would never permit it
18:17:20 <sharper> Not include? All concure
18:17:43 <sharper> RESOLVED: Delete "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement
18:18:02 <sharper> Action: Jeanne to remove "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement
18:18:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-814 - Remove "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-04-11].
18:18:19 <sharper> topic: Any new section proposed
18:18:44 <sharper> JS: proposes - Partial Conformance
18:18:44 <sharper> two conditions to address use cases 6 (extensions) and 8 (platform restrictions) Suggest Jan's original partial conformance proposal for extensions and platforms. (Not the example for full browsers with missing SC.)
18:19:06 <sharper> Eric Hansen - makes propositions but these have been covered and addressed (JA)
18:20:44 <sharper> EH: would suggest that as I drafted the other piece - can people look at this - see if anything should be added from the list here to clarify the point in #7/#8
18:21:25 <allanj> scribe: jallan
18:21:57 <Zakim> -sharper
18:23:14 <allanj> js: partial conformance - two conditions to address use cases 6 (extensions) and 8 (platform restrictions)  - see Jan's proposal.
18:24:26 <allanj> action: jallan to revisit partial conformance for next week
18:24:26 <trackbot> Created ACTION-815 - Revisit partial conformance for next week [on Jim Allan - due 2013-04-11].
18:24:39 <allanj> zakim, agenda?
18:24:39 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
18:24:40 <Zakim> 2. conformance survey [from allanj]
18:24:40 <Zakim> 3. Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 [from allanj]
18:24:49 <allanj> close item 2
18:26:09 <allanj> open item 3
18:26:44 <Zakim> -Eric
18:27:27 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
18:27:30 <Zakim> -Greg_Lowney
18:27:32 <Zakim> -Jeanne
18:27:38 <allanj> action: jeanne to make editorial changes from Erics comments, and present non-editorial items to the group.
18:27:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-816 - Make editorial changes from Erics comments, and present non-editorial items to the group. [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-04-11].
18:27:41 <Zakim> -Jim_Allan
18:27:42 <Zakim> WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:27:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Eric, Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, sharper
18:28:14 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:28:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:28:34 <allanj> zakim, please part
18:28:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
18:28:40 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:28:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:30:13 <allanj> rrsagent, please part
18:30:13 <RRSAgent> I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-actions.rdf :
18:30:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeanne to add Jan's list to document, remove version numbers from examples, add info about inclusion of version numbers in the conformance claim. [1]
18:30:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-irc#T17-43-02
18:30:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: 'member:Eric_Hansen' to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [2]
18:30:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-irc#T18-11-30
18:30:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Eric_Hansen to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [3]
18:30:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-irc#T18-12-00
18:30:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Eric to 'clarify based on the discussion in the minutes' [4]
18:30:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-irc#T18-12-09
18:30:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jeanne to remove "Progress Towards Conformance" Statement [5]
18:30:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-irc#T18-18-02
18:30:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jallan to revisit partial conformance for next week [6]
18:30:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-irc#T18-24-26
18:30:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jeanne to make editorial changes from Erics comments, and present non-editorial items to the group. [7]
18:30:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-ua-irc#T18-27-38