16:59:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
16:59:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-irc
16:59:55 <Zakim> TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started
17:00:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:00:11 <annevk_> Zakim, IP is me
17:00:11 <Zakim> sorry, annevk_, I do not recognize a party named 'IP'
17:00:16 <Zakim> +??P1
17:00:36 <Zakim> + +1.718.877.aaaa
17:01:02 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:01:13 <annevk_> Zakim, +1.7 is wycats_
17:01:13 <Zakim> +wycats_; got it
17:01:30 <annevk> Zakim, who is on the call?
17:01:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see annevk_, ht, wycats_, JeniT
17:01:37 <JeniT> trackbot, start telcon
17:01:37 <annevk> Zakim, annevk_ is me
17:01:37 <Zakim> +annevk; got it
17:01:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:01:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TAG
17:01:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started
17:01:42 <trackbot> Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
17:01:42 <trackbot> Date: 04 April 2013
17:01:42 <annevk> Zakim, who is on the call?
17:01:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see annevk, ht, wycats_, JeniT
17:03:48 <Zakim> +TimBL
17:03:49 <timbl> brb
17:04:48 <noah> noah has joined #tagmem
17:06:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:06:38 <noah> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
17:06:38 <Zakim> +noah; got it
17:06:45 <noah> zakim, who is here?
17:06:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see annevk, ht, wycats_, JeniT, TimBL, noah
17:06:46 <Zakim> On IRC I see noah, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, JeniT, annevk, timbl, wycats_, slightlyoff, plinss, Yves, trackbot
17:06:48 <timbl> b
17:07:00 <annevk> scribenick: annevk
17:07:34 <annevk> Topic: Agenda
17:07:37 <noah> agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/04/04-agenda
17:07:58 <Zakim> +Yves
17:08:00 <annevk> Zakim, passcode?
17:08:00 <Zakim> the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), annevk
17:08:31 <annevk> Noah: Lets go through F2F actions and then through the TAG's backlog
17:09:04 <Zakim> +Alex
17:09:20 <annevk> Noah: For those in the backlog we may want to go through them and indicate whether we'll be working on them or that they should not expect an update.
17:09:48 <annevk> Noah: The next call will be in two weeks.
17:09:50 <noah> Alex will scribe on 18 April
17:09:55 <noah> No regrets for the 18th
17:10:22 <annevk> Noah: Another administrative item was a request for a calendar feed
17:10:25 <noah> Calendar: https://cal.csswg.org/public.php/tag/calendar.ics
17:10:36 <annevk> Noah: this is experimental, set up by plinss
17:10:43 <ht> ht has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/04/04-agenda.html
17:10:49 <annevk> Noah: I'll do the updates, you can pull out of it
17:11:54 <annevk> Noah: TAG F2F in London coming up, start thinking about travel
17:12:24 <noah> Reminder, please put ACTION-XXX in subject or body of your emails
17:13:39 <annevk> Noah: beware of cross-posting ACTION- to other lists as there's no namespacing
17:13:52 <annevk> [no namespacing, how can this be!]
17:14:00 <annevk> Topic: Actions
17:14:14 <annevk> JeniT: I'd like to postpone my action
17:14:14 <noah> ACTION=790?
17:14:30 <noah> ACTION-790?
17:14:30 <trackbot> ACTION-790 -- Jeni Tennison to do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR -- due 2013-04-16 -- OPEN
17:14:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/790
17:14:43 <noah> ACTION-791?
17:14:43 <trackbot> ACTION-791 -- Alex Russell to redraft proposed "status" section that TAG is suggesting for Polyglot -- due 2013-03-27 -- OPEN
17:14:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/791
17:15:14 <noah> NM: Has discussion converged?
17:15:17 <annevk> Yehuda: it seems there were two points
17:15:36 <annevk> Yehuda: Larry thought Alex' use cases were too narrow and I had mentioned another use case worth mentioning
17:15:49 <annevk> Yehuda: It seemed people were talking past each other via email
17:15:56 <ht> sorry, but I've been busy -- I'd like to review the emails before discussing
17:15:59 <annevk> Yehuda: easiest would be for Alex to reply to those emails
17:16:04 <noah> OK, Henry
17:16:10 <noah> zakim, who is here?
17:16:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see annevk, ht, wycats_, JeniT, TimBL, noah, Yves, Alex
17:16:11 <Zakim> On IRC I see noah, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, JeniT, annevk, timbl, wycats_, slightlyoff, plinss, Yves, trackbot
17:16:21 <annevk> Yehuda: Both Larry and I wanted to expand your wording
17:16:27 <annevk> Alex: Yes that works for me
17:16:55 <annevk> Noah: bump due date?
17:17:13 <annevk> Alex: yes
17:17:15 <noah> ACTION-791?
17:17:15 <trackbot> ACTION-791 -- Alex Russell to redraft proposed "status" section that TAG is suggesting for Polyglot -- due 2013-04-16 -- OPEN
17:17:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/791
17:17:47 <slightlyoff_> slightlyoff_ has joined #tagmem
17:17:57 <slightlyoff_> *finally*. Sorry 'bout that
17:18:16 <annevk> Noah: anything else on Polyglot?
17:18:19 <annevk> [silence]
17:18:23 <noah> ACTION-793?
17:18:23 <trackbot> ACTION-793 -- Anne van Kesteren to draft disclaimer text for Authoritative Metadata -- due 2013-04-05 -- OPEN
17:18:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/793
17:18:42 <noah> AVK: Just updated due date, will do it tomorrow.
17:19:57 <annevk> [Discussing details of note formatting.]
17:20:38 <noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/mime-respect-20060412
17:22:07 <timbl> It is better to work in the CVS space than to have it at your own private site
17:22:08 <annevk> Noah: use a date in the URL
17:22:54 <annevk> Noah: Yehuda, any update on F2F minutes?
17:23:01 <annevk> Yehuda: one flight away
17:24:09 <annevk> Topic: TAG backlog
17:24:24 <annevk> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/open
17:25:10 <annevk> Noah: The TAG used its own issue tracking system that had shortnames. That explains errorHandling-20 and such.
17:25:35 <annevk> Noah: The first six or so years of the TAG it used issues to drive its agenda.
17:26:52 <annevk> Noah: And looked at aspects of them, e.g. error handling in HTML vs XML.
17:27:26 <annevk> Noah: Larry expressed frustration with this process and so we created product pages to have a more overarching goal of what we're working towards.
17:27:49 <noah> ISSUE-34?
17:27:49 <trackbot> ISSUE-34 -- XML Transformation and composability (e.g., XSLT,XInclude, Encryption) -- open
17:27:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/34
17:27:51 <annevk> Noah: Lets go through the issues and see which we can close.
17:28:22 <Zakim> -wycats_
17:29:09 <annevk> Noah: Processing model of XML. Is there any interest in this?
17:29:40 <ht> xmlFunctions-34
17:30:20 <ht> q+ to add 0.02USD
17:30:22 <annevk> Tim: I'm happy to do things with XML. This came from when we're talking about XML was processed. The meaning from XML has to be taken outside-in. Otherwise you cannot create new XML specifications that interweave with what exist.
17:30:31 <annevk> Tim: Not clear people noticed that.
17:30:59 <noah> I note that traceker has several status codes we can assign, including OPEN, PENDING, REVIEW, POSTPONED, and CLOSED.
17:31:12 <annevk> Tim: Henry did a lot more work on that. I don't feel we need to put a whole lot of energy into XML at all. JSON is the new way for me. It's much more straightforward.
17:31:19 <noah> Suggestion: if we think this is now resolved or uninteresting, CLOSE it; if we think it's interesting but not now, then POSTPONED?
17:31:29 <noah> q?
17:32:07 <annevk> Tim: We need another concept besides OPEN/CLOSED. Something like NOT WORKING ON IT.
17:32:16 <annevk> Noah: It has POSTPONED.
17:32:48 <annevk> Tim: POSTPONED expresses a feeling of guilt. But there's no guilt.
17:33:11 <annevk> Noah: It's close enough and I'm not looking forward to changing Tracker.
17:33:13 <noah> ack next
17:33:14 <Zakim> ht, you wanted to add 0.02USD
17:33:46 <annevk> Henri: I'm happy to move this to the backburner. I think there's a genuine issue here and of interest to the community but I don't have the bandwidth.
17:33:52 <JeniT> s/Henri/Henry/
17:34:20 <annevk> Noah: We need to tell ourselves a story as to what these codes mean.
17:34:32 <annevk> Noah: Historically we used CLOSED for "it's in pretty good shape".
17:34:51 <annevk> Henry: I'm happy with POSTPONED and it's better than CLOSED.
17:35:14 <noah> . PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We mark issue xmlFunctions-34 POSTPONED
17:35:17 <annevk> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We mark ISSUE-34 (xmlFunctions-34) POSTPONED
17:35:26 <slightlyoff_> +1 for postponing
17:35:30 <noah> RESOLUTION: We mark issue xmlFunctions-34 POSTPONED
17:35:30 <JeniT> +1
17:35:33 <annevk> RESOLUTION: We mark ISSUE-34 (xmlFunctions-34) POSTPONED
17:35:48 <slightlyoff_> I think this is important, thanks for doing it noah
17:36:04 <noah> ISSUE-35?
17:36:04 <trackbot> ISSUE-35 -- Syntax and semantics for embedding RDF in XHTML -- open
17:36:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/35
17:36:09 <noah> RDFinXHTML-35
17:36:09 <annevk> Noah: I think it's important going through these.
17:36:31 <annevk> Noah: even though it's somewhat boring to do our due diligence and set expectations.
17:36:59 <annevk> Noah: I think people were pretty happy with the progress Jeni made here.
17:37:01 <noah> Propose to CLOSE this one.
17:37:32 <noah> q?
17:37:32 <annevk> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We mark ISSUE-35 (RDFinXHTML-35) CLOSED
17:38:02 <JeniT> +1
17:38:04 <slightlyoff_> +1
17:38:05 <annevk> RESOLUTION: We mark ISSUE-35 (RDFinXHTML-35) CLOSED
17:38:14 <noah> RESOLUTION: The TAG closes issue RDFinXHTML-35, believing that good answers have been developed
17:39:06 <noah> ACTION: Jeni to draft text on closing of issue RDFinXHTML-35
17:39:07 <trackbot> Created ACTION-794 - Draft text on closing of issue RDFinXHTML-35 [on Jeni Tennison - due 2013-04-11].
17:39:19 <noah> ISSUE-46?
17:39:19 <trackbot> ISSUE-46 -- Impact of changes to XML 1.1 on other XML Specifications -- open
17:39:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/46
17:39:59 <slightlyoff_> +1
17:40:29 <ht> +1
17:40:44 <Zakim> -ht
17:41:11 <annevk> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-46 (xml11Names-46) CLOSED because it has been dealt with.
17:41:44 <annevk> RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-46 (xml11Names-46) CLOSED because it has been dealt with and time has passed.
17:41:57 <noah> close ISSUE-46
17:41:57 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-46 Impact of changes to XML 1.1 on other XML Specifications.
17:42:13 <noah> close ISSUE-35
17:42:13 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-35 Syntax and semantics for embedding RDF in XHTML.
17:42:24 <noah> ISSUE-47?
17:42:24 <trackbot> ISSUE-47 -- WS-Addressing SOAP binding & app protocols -- open
17:42:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/47
17:42:50 <noah> Issue description:
17:42:50 <noah> "In a nutshell, it [
17:42:50 <noah> WS-Addressing - SOAP Binding ] requires that the URI in the "Address" component of a WS-Addressing EPR be serialized into a wsa:To SOAP header, independent of the underlying protocol. IMO, a Web-architecture consistent means of doing this would be to serialize it to the Request-URI when using SOAP with HTTP, or the "RCPT TO:" value when using SOAP with SMTP, etc.."
17:43:03 <JeniT> must have been overtaken by events, surely
17:43:43 <timbl> close
17:43:43 <annevk> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-47 (endPointRefs-47) CLOSED because we cannot affect this.
17:43:47 <noah> ACTION: Noah to draft text on closing of ISSUE-46
17:43:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-795 - Draft text on closing of ISSUE-46 [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2013-04-11].
17:44:29 <noah> NM: Even the WS community is not using Endpoint References.
17:44:35 <noah> NM: Even the WS community is not using Endpoint References?
17:44:40 <noah> YL: That's my understanding
17:44:55 <annevk> PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-47 (endPointRefs-47) CLOSED because we cannot affect this and code has either been deployed or is dead.
17:46:09 <slightlyoff_> SGTM
17:46:13 <Yves> +1
17:46:13 <JeniT> +1
17:46:16 <slightlyoff_> +1
17:46:30 <annevk> RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-47 (endPointRefs-47) CLOSED because we cannot affect this and code has either been deployed or is dead.
17:46:51 <noah> close ISSUE-47?
17:46:51 <trackbot> Closed ISSUE-47 WS-Addressing SOAP binding & app protocols.
17:47:04 <annevk> Noah: Yves, can you draft text to post to the community?
17:47:15 <annevk> Yves: sure thing
17:47:20 <noah> ISSUE-61?
17:47:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-61 -- URI Based Access to Packaged Items -- open
17:47:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/61
17:47:45 <noah> Description: "
17:47:45 <noah> The TAG opened an issue, uriBasedPackageAccess-61 [1] to consider URI based access and reference to items within a web accessible package. In addressing a more general problem the TAG expects to cover the requirements of the WAF community who have requested help wrt to their current work on widgets [2] as well other situations that involve reference within and into packaged structures on the
17:47:45 <noah> web."
17:48:20 <JeniT> I don't know but this looks like it could still be interesting
17:48:50 <noah> q?
17:48:57 <annevk> Anne: SysApps is the new group that works on stuff like this, I think
17:49:08 <annevk> Anne: there's an app:// URL thingie
17:49:29 <JeniT> q+
17:49:32 <noah> I agree, I just wanted us to look because I knew that the original issue arose from concerns about a particular component technology that I believe is no longer moving ahead. I agree that it's reasonable to keep the issue open.
17:49:39 <noah> ack next
17:49:41 <annevk> Tim: Certainly with a zip file you want to get bits out of it.
17:50:11 <annevk> Jeni: Coming from the Open Data angle is that we have really big data files, zip them up, and still reference bits inside of it.
17:51:36 <annevk> Anne: There's different use cases. One is about locally referencing a file. The other one is referencing a file from the outside.
17:52:05 <annevk> Tim: it would be nice if they could be treated consistently.
17:52:37 <annevk> Noah: issues track several things usually
17:53:08 <annevk> Anne: I think they are orthogonal, but I suspect we won't work on it much
17:54:57 <JeniT> looking at http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/#zip-relative-paths
17:54:59 <annevk> Noah: Okay, lets keep it open, and if we later get more information we can add it to and revisit it
17:55:12 <annevk> http://appuri.sysapps.org/
17:55:23 <JeniT> this is stuff marcosc is working on
17:56:26 <annevk> Tim: can you add that link to ISSUE-61 Anne?
17:56:28 <annevk> Anne: done
17:56:49 <annevk> Topic: Pending review actions
17:56:50 <noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview
17:57:10 <annevk> Noah: I think these can be closed
17:57:45 <slightlyoff_> +1 to closing the action
17:57:45 <noah> close ACTION-741
17:57:46 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-741 Check with Norm Walsh on closing out HTML/XML unification work.
17:57:51 <noah> ACTION-782?
17:57:51 <trackbot> ACTION-782 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule F2F discussion of polyglot, the TAG's request to HTML WG on polygot, and HTML/XML Unification -- due 2013-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:57:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/782
17:57:52 <Zakim> -JeniT
17:58:07 <noah> close ACTION-782
17:58:07 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-782 schedule F2F discussion of polyglot, the TAG's request to HTML WG on polygot, and HTML/XML Unification.
17:58:09 <slightlyoff_> +1
17:58:14 <noah> ACTION-785?
17:58:14 <trackbot> ACTION-785 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule discussion of developer involvement/outreach at F2F -- due 2013-03-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:58:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/785
17:58:37 <slightlyoff_> I think this should be extended
17:58:53 <slightlyoff_> can we assign marcosc?
17:58:59 <slightlyoff_> hate to volunteer him
17:59:08 <noah> close ACTION-785
17:59:08 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-785 schedule discussion of developer involvement/outreach at F2F.
17:59:41 <noah> ACTION: Marcos to develop new ideas for improved synergy with and outreach to the developer community - Due: 2013-05-20
17:59:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-796 - Develop new ideas for improved synergy with and outreach to the developer community - Due: 2013-05-20 [on Marcos Caceres - due 2013-04-11].
18:00:22 <noah> ACTION-796?
18:00:22 <trackbot> ACTION-796 -- Marcos Caceres to develop new ideas for improved synergy with and outreach to the developer community -- due 2013-05-20 -- OPEN
18:00:22 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/796
18:00:39 <noah> ACTION-787?
18:00:39 <trackbot> ACTION-787 -- Alex Russell to solicit informal discussion on HTML WG list of clarifying: polyglot doesn't restrict html5 futures -- due 2013-02-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:00:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/787
18:00:54 <slightlyoff_> it was me
18:01:26 <noah> close ACTION-787
18:01:26 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-787 solicit informal discussion on HTML WG list of clarifying: polyglot doesn't restrict html5 futures.
18:01:27 <annevk> Alex: I solicited that feedback privately, no follow up
18:01:38 <annevk> Noah: all pending review actions are dealt with
18:01:58 <noah> http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue?sort=owner
18:03:18 <slightlyoff_> curious to know if we want to keep pursuing http://www.w3.org/wiki/TagIssue57Proposal27
18:03:26 <annevk> Noah: overdue actions is a permathread
18:03:28 <slightlyoff_> thanks
18:04:34 <annevk> Alex: I'm curious to know what happens to actions assigned to outgoing TAG members
18:05:19 <annevk> Noah: I think it's my task to sort out these overdue actions with outgoing TAG members and then come back to the TAG
18:06:08 <Zakim> -Alex
18:06:08 <noah> ADJOURNED
18:06:08 <annevk> Noah: I propose to adjourn the call. Please keep me up to date with requests for the meeting. That'd be very helpful.
18:06:09 <Zakim> -TimBL
18:06:13 <Zakim> -Yves
18:06:20 <annevk> s/the meeting/the meetings/
18:06:25 <annevk> RRSAgent: make minutes
18:06:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
18:06:33 <noah> Anne, please check in formatted minutes if you can, else send me HTML and I'll check it in/.
18:06:35 <noah> Tnx
18:06:56 <annevk> Zakim, on the phone?
18:06:56 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, annevk.
18:07:01 <annevk> Zakim, who is on the phone?
18:07:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see annevk, noah
18:07:26 <noah> https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/coordination/TAGGuide.html#scribing
18:09:23 <annevk> RRSAgent: draft minutes
18:09:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
18:10:10 <Zakim> -annevk
18:10:12 <Zakim> -noah
18:10:12 <Zakim> TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
18:10:12 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.718.877.aaaa, ht, JeniT, wycats_, annevk, TimBL, noah, Yves, Alex
18:10:31 <annevk> Present: Yehuda Jeni Tim Noah Yves Henry Alex Anne
18:10:37 <annevk> Chair: Noah
18:11:05 <annevk> s/AVK/Anne/
18:11:37 <annevk> RRSAgent: make minutes
18:11:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
18:15:46 <annevk> Regrets: Marcos
18:15:50 <annevk> RRSAgent: make minutes
18:15:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
18:15:59 <annevk> scribe: Anne
18:16:26 <annevk> RRSAgent: make minutes
18:16:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
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18:40:23 <annevk> noah: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/04/04-minutes.html
18:40:34 <annevk> noah: I'll email them now
18:44:06 <noah> noah has joined #tagmem
18:44:25 <annevk> and done
18:44:53 <annevk> ooh, I used camelcase in my email subject
18:44:54 <annevk> I hate that
18:45:01 <annevk> Zakim, bye
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