IRC log of tagmem on 2013-04-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:59:41 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #tagmem
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-irc
16:59:55 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has now started
17:00:02 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:00:11 [annevk_]
Zakim, IP is me
17:00:11 [Zakim]
sorry, annevk_, I do not recognize a party named 'IP'
17:00:16 [Zakim]
+??P1
17:00:36 [Zakim]
+ +1.718.877.aaaa
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+[IPcaller]
17:01:13 [annevk_]
Zakim, +1.7 is wycats_
17:01:13 [Zakim]
+wycats_; got it
17:01:30 [annevk]
Zakim, who is on the call?
17:01:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see annevk_, ht, wycats_, JeniT
17:01:37 [JeniT]
trackbot, start telcon
17:01:37 [annevk]
Zakim, annevk_ is me
17:01:37 [Zakim]
+annevk; got it
17:01:39 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:01:41 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be TAG
17:01:41 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see TAG_Weekly()1:00PM already started
17:01:42 [trackbot]
Meeting: Technical Architecture Group Teleconference
17:01:42 [trackbot]
Date: 04 April 2013
17:01:42 [annevk]
Zakim, who is on the call?
17:01:42 [Zakim]
On the phone I see annevk, ht, wycats_, JeniT
17:03:48 [Zakim]
+TimBL
17:03:49 [timbl]
brb
17:04:48 [noah]
noah has joined #tagmem
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+[IPcaller]
17:06:38 [noah]
zakim, [IPcaller] is me
17:06:38 [Zakim]
+noah; got it
17:06:45 [noah]
zakim, who is here?
17:06:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see annevk, ht, wycats_, JeniT, TimBL, noah
17:06:46 [Zakim]
On IRC I see noah, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, JeniT, annevk, timbl, wycats_, slightlyoff, plinss, Yves, trackbot
17:06:48 [timbl]
b
17:07:00 [annevk]
scribenick: annevk
17:07:34 [annevk]
Topic: Agenda
17:07:37 [noah]
agenda: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/04/04-agenda
17:07:58 [Zakim]
+Yves
17:08:00 [annevk]
Zakim, passcode?
17:08:00 [Zakim]
the conference code is 0824 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), annevk
17:08:31 [annevk]
Noah: Lets go through F2F actions and then through the TAG's backlog
17:09:04 [Zakim]
+Alex
17:09:20 [annevk]
Noah: For those in the backlog we may want to go through them and indicate whether we'll be working on them or that they should not expect an update.
17:09:48 [annevk]
Noah: The next call will be in two weeks.
17:09:50 [noah]
Alex will scribe on 18 April
17:09:55 [noah]
No regrets for the 18th
17:10:22 [annevk]
Noah: Another administrative item was a request for a calendar feed
17:10:25 [noah]
Calendar: https://cal.csswg.org/public.php/tag/calendar.ics
17:10:36 [annevk]
Noah: this is experimental, set up by plinss
17:10:43 [ht]
ht has changed the topic to: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/04/04-agenda.html
17:10:49 [annevk]
Noah: I'll do the updates, you can pull out of it
17:11:54 [annevk]
Noah: TAG F2F in London coming up, start thinking about travel
17:12:24 [noah]
Reminder, please put ACTION-XXX in subject or body of your emails
17:13:39 [annevk]
Noah: beware of cross-posting ACTION- to other lists as there's no namespacing
17:13:52 [annevk]
[no namespacing, how can this be!]
17:14:00 [annevk]
Topic: Actions
17:14:14 [annevk]
JeniT: I'd like to postpone my action
17:14:14 [noah]
ACTION=790?
17:14:30 [noah]
ACTION-790?
17:14:30 [trackbot]
ACTION-790 -- Jeni Tennison to do new Editor's Draft of fragids spec for approval to publish as CR -- due 2013-04-16 -- OPEN
17:14:30 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/790
17:14:43 [noah]
ACTION-791?
17:14:43 [trackbot]
ACTION-791 -- Alex Russell to redraft proposed "status" section that TAG is suggesting for Polyglot -- due 2013-03-27 -- OPEN
17:14:43 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/791
17:15:14 [noah]
NM: Has discussion converged?
17:15:17 [annevk]
Yehuda: it seems there were two points
17:15:36 [annevk]
Yehuda: Larry thought Alex' use cases were too narrow and I had mentioned another use case worth mentioning
17:15:49 [annevk]
Yehuda: It seemed people were talking past each other via email
17:15:56 [ht]
sorry, but I've been busy -- I'd like to review the emails before discussing
17:15:59 [annevk]
Yehuda: easiest would be for Alex to reply to those emails
17:16:04 [noah]
OK, Henry
17:16:10 [noah]
zakim, who is here?
17:16:10 [Zakim]
On the phone I see annevk, ht, wycats_, JeniT, TimBL, noah, Yves, Alex
17:16:11 [Zakim]
On IRC I see noah, RRSAgent, Zakim, ht, JeniT, annevk, timbl, wycats_, slightlyoff, plinss, Yves, trackbot
17:16:21 [annevk]
Yehuda: Both Larry and I wanted to expand your wording
17:16:27 [annevk]
Alex: Yes that works for me
17:16:55 [annevk]
Noah: bump due date?
17:17:13 [annevk]
Alex: yes
17:17:15 [noah]
ACTION-791?
17:17:15 [trackbot]
ACTION-791 -- Alex Russell to redraft proposed "status" section that TAG is suggesting for Polyglot -- due 2013-04-16 -- OPEN
17:17:15 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/791
17:17:47 [slightlyoff_]
slightlyoff_ has joined #tagmem
17:17:57 [slightlyoff_]
*finally*. Sorry 'bout that
17:18:16 [annevk]
Noah: anything else on Polyglot?
17:18:19 [annevk]
[silence]
17:18:23 [noah]
ACTION-793?
17:18:23 [trackbot]
ACTION-793 -- Anne van Kesteren to draft disclaimer text for Authoritative Metadata -- due 2013-04-05 -- OPEN
17:18:23 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/793
17:18:42 [noah]
AVK: Just updated due date, will do it tomorrow.
17:19:57 [annevk]
[Discussing details of note formatting.]
17:20:38 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/mime-respect-20060412
17:22:07 [timbl]
It is better to work in the CVS space than to have it at your own private site
17:22:08 [annevk]
Noah: use a date in the URL
17:22:54 [annevk]
Noah: Yehuda, any update on F2F minutes?
17:23:01 [annevk]
Yehuda: one flight away
17:24:09 [annevk]
Topic: TAG backlog
17:24:24 [annevk]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/open
17:25:10 [annevk]
Noah: The TAG used its own issue tracking system that had shortnames. That explains errorHandling-20 and such.
17:25:35 [annevk]
Noah: The first six or so years of the TAG it used issues to drive its agenda.
17:26:52 [annevk]
Noah: And looked at aspects of them, e.g. error handling in HTML vs XML.
17:27:26 [annevk]
Noah: Larry expressed frustration with this process and so we created product pages to have a more overarching goal of what we're working towards.
17:27:49 [noah]
ISSUE-34?
17:27:49 [trackbot]
ISSUE-34 -- XML Transformation and composability (e.g., XSLT,XInclude, Encryption) -- open
17:27:49 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/34
17:27:51 [annevk]
Noah: Lets go through the issues and see which we can close.
17:28:22 [Zakim]
-wycats_
17:29:09 [annevk]
Noah: Processing model of XML. Is there any interest in this?
17:29:40 [ht]
xmlFunctions-34
17:30:20 [ht]
q+ to add 0.02USD
17:30:22 [annevk]
Tim: I'm happy to do things with XML. This came from when we're talking about XML was processed. The meaning from XML has to be taken outside-in. Otherwise you cannot create new XML specifications that interweave with what exist.
17:30:31 [annevk]
Tim: Not clear people noticed that.
17:30:59 [noah]
I note that traceker has several status codes we can assign, including OPEN, PENDING, REVIEW, POSTPONED, and CLOSED.
17:31:12 [annevk]
Tim: Henry did a lot more work on that. I don't feel we need to put a whole lot of energy into XML at all. JSON is the new way for me. It's much more straightforward.
17:31:19 [noah]
Suggestion: if we think this is now resolved or uninteresting, CLOSE it; if we think it's interesting but not now, then POSTPONED?
17:31:29 [noah]
q?
17:32:07 [annevk]
Tim: We need another concept besides OPEN/CLOSED. Something like NOT WORKING ON IT.
17:32:16 [annevk]
Noah: It has POSTPONED.
17:32:48 [annevk]
Tim: POSTPONED expresses a feeling of guilt. But there's no guilt.
17:33:11 [annevk]
Noah: It's close enough and I'm not looking forward to changing Tracker.
17:33:13 [noah]
ack next
17:33:14 [Zakim]
ht, you wanted to add 0.02USD
17:33:46 [annevk]
Henri: I'm happy to move this to the backburner. I think there's a genuine issue here and of interest to the community but I don't have the bandwidth.
17:33:52 [JeniT]
s/Henri/Henry/
17:34:20 [annevk]
Noah: We need to tell ourselves a story as to what these codes mean.
17:34:32 [annevk]
Noah: Historically we used CLOSED for "it's in pretty good shape".
17:34:51 [annevk]
Henry: I'm happy with POSTPONED and it's better than CLOSED.
17:35:14 [noah]
. PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We mark issue xmlFunctions-34 POSTPONED
17:35:17 [annevk]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We mark ISSUE-34 (xmlFunctions-34) POSTPONED
17:35:26 [slightlyoff_]
+1 for postponing
17:35:30 [noah]
RESOLUTION: We mark issue xmlFunctions-34 POSTPONED
17:35:30 [JeniT]
+1
17:35:33 [annevk]
RESOLUTION: We mark ISSUE-34 (xmlFunctions-34) POSTPONED
17:35:48 [slightlyoff_]
I think this is important, thanks for doing it noah
17:36:04 [noah]
ISSUE-35?
17:36:04 [trackbot]
ISSUE-35 -- Syntax and semantics for embedding RDF in XHTML -- open
17:36:04 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/35
17:36:09 [noah]
RDFinXHTML-35
17:36:09 [annevk]
Noah: I think it's important going through these.
17:36:31 [annevk]
Noah: even though it's somewhat boring to do our due diligence and set expectations.
17:36:59 [annevk]
Noah: I think people were pretty happy with the progress Jeni made here.
17:37:01 [noah]
Propose to CLOSE this one.
17:37:32 [noah]
q?
17:37:32 [annevk]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We mark ISSUE-35 (RDFinXHTML-35) CLOSED
17:38:02 [JeniT]
+1
17:38:04 [slightlyoff_]
+1
17:38:05 [annevk]
RESOLUTION: We mark ISSUE-35 (RDFinXHTML-35) CLOSED
17:38:14 [noah]
RESOLUTION: The TAG closes issue RDFinXHTML-35, believing that good answers have been developed
17:39:06 [noah]
ACTION: Jeni to draft text on closing of issue RDFinXHTML-35
17:39:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-794 - Draft text on closing of issue RDFinXHTML-35 [on Jeni Tennison - due 2013-04-11].
17:39:19 [noah]
ISSUE-46?
17:39:19 [trackbot]
ISSUE-46 -- Impact of changes to XML 1.1 on other XML Specifications -- open
17:39:19 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/46
17:39:59 [slightlyoff_]
+1
17:40:29 [ht]
+1
17:40:44 [Zakim]
-ht
17:41:11 [annevk]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-46 (xml11Names-46) CLOSED because it has been dealt with.
17:41:44 [annevk]
RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-46 (xml11Names-46) CLOSED because it has been dealt with and time has passed.
17:41:57 [noah]
close ISSUE-46
17:41:57 [trackbot]
Closed ISSUE-46 Impact of changes to XML 1.1 on other XML Specifications.
17:42:13 [noah]
close ISSUE-35
17:42:13 [trackbot]
Closed ISSUE-35 Syntax and semantics for embedding RDF in XHTML.
17:42:24 [noah]
ISSUE-47?
17:42:24 [trackbot]
ISSUE-47 -- WS-Addressing SOAP binding & app protocols -- open
17:42:24 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/47
17:42:50 [noah]
Issue description:
17:42:50 [noah]
"In a nutshell, it [
17:42:50 [noah]
WS-Addressing - SOAP Binding ] requires that the URI in the "Address" component of a WS-Addressing EPR be serialized into a wsa:To SOAP header, independent of the underlying protocol. IMO, a Web-architecture consistent means of doing this would be to serialize it to the Request-URI when using SOAP with HTTP, or the "RCPT TO:" value when using SOAP with SMTP, etc.."
17:43:03 [JeniT]
must have been overtaken by events, surely
17:43:43 [timbl]
close
17:43:43 [annevk]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-47 (endPointRefs-47) CLOSED because we cannot affect this.
17:43:47 [noah]
ACTION: Noah to draft text on closing of ISSUE-46
17:43:47 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-795 - Draft text on closing of ISSUE-46 [on Noah Mendelsohn - due 2013-04-11].
17:44:29 [noah]
NM: Even the WS community is not using Endpoint References.
17:44:35 [noah]
NM: Even the WS community is not using Endpoint References?
17:44:40 [noah]
YL: That's my understanding
17:44:55 [annevk]
PROPOSED RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-47 (endPointRefs-47) CLOSED because we cannot affect this and code has either been deployed or is dead.
17:46:09 [slightlyoff_]
SGTM
17:46:13 [Yves]
+1
17:46:13 [JeniT]
+1
17:46:16 [slightlyoff_]
+1
17:46:30 [annevk]
RESOLUTION: Mark ISSUE-47 (endPointRefs-47) CLOSED because we cannot affect this and code has either been deployed or is dead.
17:46:51 [noah]
close ISSUE-47?
17:46:51 [trackbot]
Closed ISSUE-47 WS-Addressing SOAP binding & app protocols.
17:47:04 [annevk]
Noah: Yves, can you draft text to post to the community?
17:47:15 [annevk]
Yves: sure thing
17:47:20 [noah]
ISSUE-61?
17:47:20 [trackbot]
ISSUE-61 -- URI Based Access to Packaged Items -- open
17:47:20 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/issues/61
17:47:45 [noah]
Description: "
17:47:45 [noah]
The TAG opened an issue, uriBasedPackageAccess-61 [1] to consider URI based access and reference to items within a web accessible package. In addressing a more general problem the TAG expects to cover the requirements of the WAF community who have requested help wrt to their current work on widgets [2] as well other situations that involve reference within and into packaged structures on the
17:47:45 [noah]
web."
17:48:20 [JeniT]
I don't know but this looks like it could still be interesting
17:48:50 [noah]
q?
17:48:57 [annevk]
Anne: SysApps is the new group that works on stuff like this, I think
17:49:08 [annevk]
Anne: there's an app:// URL thingie
17:49:29 [JeniT]
q+
17:49:32 [noah]
I agree, I just wanted us to look because I knew that the original issue arose from concerns about a particular component technology that I believe is no longer moving ahead. I agree that it's reasonable to keep the issue open.
17:49:39 [noah]
ack next
17:49:41 [annevk]
Tim: Certainly with a zip file you want to get bits out of it.
17:50:11 [annevk]
Jeni: Coming from the Open Data angle is that we have really big data files, zip them up, and still reference bits inside of it.
17:51:36 [annevk]
Anne: There's different use cases. One is about locally referencing a file. The other one is referencing a file from the outside.
17:52:05 [annevk]
Tim: it would be nice if they could be treated consistently.
17:52:37 [annevk]
Noah: issues track several things usually
17:53:08 [annevk]
Anne: I think they are orthogonal, but I suspect we won't work on it much
17:54:57 [JeniT]
looking at http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets/#zip-relative-paths
17:54:59 [annevk]
Noah: Okay, lets keep it open, and if we later get more information we can add it to and revisit it
17:55:12 [annevk]
http://appuri.sysapps.org/
17:55:23 [JeniT]
this is stuff marcosc is working on
17:56:26 [annevk]
Tim: can you add that link to ISSUE-61 Anne?
17:56:28 [annevk]
Anne: done
17:56:49 [annevk]
Topic: Pending review actions
17:56:50 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/pendingreview
17:57:10 [annevk]
Noah: I think these can be closed
17:57:45 [slightlyoff_]
+1 to closing the action
17:57:45 [noah]
close ACTION-741
17:57:46 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-741 Check with Norm Walsh on closing out HTML/XML unification work.
17:57:51 [noah]
ACTION-782?
17:57:51 [trackbot]
ACTION-782 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule F2F discussion of polyglot, the TAG's request to HTML WG on polygot, and HTML/XML Unification -- due 2013-03-01 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:57:51 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/782
17:57:52 [Zakim]
-JeniT
17:58:07 [noah]
close ACTION-782
17:58:07 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-782 schedule F2F discussion of polyglot, the TAG's request to HTML WG on polygot, and HTML/XML Unification.
17:58:09 [slightlyoff_]
+1
17:58:14 [noah]
ACTION-785?
17:58:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-785 -- Noah Mendelsohn to schedule discussion of developer involvement/outreach at F2F -- due 2013-03-04 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:58:14 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/785
17:58:37 [slightlyoff_]
I think this should be extended
17:58:53 [slightlyoff_]
can we assign marcosc?
17:58:59 [slightlyoff_]
hate to volunteer him
17:59:08 [noah]
close ACTION-785
17:59:08 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-785 schedule discussion of developer involvement/outreach at F2F.
17:59:41 [noah]
ACTION: Marcos to develop new ideas for improved synergy with and outreach to the developer community - Due: 2013-05-20
17:59:41 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-796 - Develop new ideas for improved synergy with and outreach to the developer community - Due: 2013-05-20 [on Marcos Caceres - due 2013-04-11].
18:00:22 [noah]
ACTION-796?
18:00:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-796 -- Marcos Caceres to develop new ideas for improved synergy with and outreach to the developer community -- due 2013-05-20 -- OPEN
18:00:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/796
18:00:39 [noah]
ACTION-787?
18:00:39 [trackbot]
ACTION-787 -- Alex Russell to solicit informal discussion on HTML WG list of clarifying: polyglot doesn't restrict html5 futures -- due 2013-02-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
18:00:39 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/787
18:00:54 [slightlyoff_]
it was me
18:01:26 [noah]
close ACTION-787
18:01:26 [trackbot]
Closed ACTION-787 solicit informal discussion on HTML WG list of clarifying: polyglot doesn't restrict html5 futures.
18:01:27 [annevk]
Alex: I solicited that feedback privately, no follow up
18:01:38 [annevk]
Noah: all pending review actions are dealt with
18:01:58 [noah]
http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/group/track/actions/overdue?sort=owner
18:03:18 [slightlyoff_]
curious to know if we want to keep pursuing http://www.w3.org/wiki/TagIssue57Proposal27
18:03:26 [annevk]
Noah: overdue actions is a permathread
18:03:28 [slightlyoff_]
thanks
18:04:34 [annevk]
Alex: I'm curious to know what happens to actions assigned to outgoing TAG members
18:05:19 [annevk]
Noah: I think it's my task to sort out these overdue actions with outgoing TAG members and then come back to the TAG
18:06:08 [Zakim]
-Alex
18:06:08 [noah]
ADJOURNED
18:06:08 [annevk]
Noah: I propose to adjourn the call. Please keep me up to date with requests for the meeting. That'd be very helpful.
18:06:09 [Zakim]
-TimBL
18:06:13 [Zakim]
-Yves
18:06:20 [annevk]
s/the meeting/the meetings/
18:06:25 [annevk]
RRSAgent: make minutes
18:06:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
18:06:33 [noah]
Anne, please check in formatted minutes if you can, else send me HTML and I'll check it in/.
18:06:35 [noah]
Tnx
18:06:56 [annevk]
Zakim, on the phone?
18:06:56 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, annevk.
18:07:01 [annevk]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
18:07:01 [Zakim]
On the phone I see annevk, noah
18:07:26 [noah]
https://www.w3.org/2001/tag/coordination/TAGGuide.html#scribing
18:09:23 [annevk]
RRSAgent: draft minutes
18:09:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
18:10:10 [Zakim]
-annevk
18:10:12 [Zakim]
-noah
18:10:12 [Zakim]
TAG_Weekly()1:00PM has ended
18:10:12 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.718.877.aaaa, ht, JeniT, wycats_, annevk, TimBL, noah, Yves, Alex
18:10:31 [annevk]
Present: Yehuda Jeni Tim Noah Yves Henry Alex Anne
18:10:37 [annevk]
Chair: Noah
18:11:05 [annevk]
s/AVK/Anne/
18:11:37 [annevk]
RRSAgent: make minutes
18:11:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
18:15:46 [annevk]
Regrets: Marcos
18:15:50 [annevk]
RRSAgent: make minutes
18:15:50 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
18:15:59 [annevk]
scribe: Anne
18:16:26 [annevk]
RRSAgent: make minutes
18:16:26 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-tagmem-minutes.html annevk
18:20:18 [annevk]
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18:40:23 [annevk]
noah: http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/2013/04/04-minutes.html
18:40:34 [annevk]
noah: I'll email them now
18:44:06 [noah]
noah has joined #tagmem
18:44:25 [annevk]
and done
18:44:53 [annevk]
ooh, I used camelcase in my email subject
18:44:54 [annevk]
I hate that
18:45:01 [annevk]
Zakim, bye
18:45:01 [Zakim]
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