14:40:16 RRSAgent has joined #prov 14:40:16 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-prov-irc 14:40:18 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:40:18 Zakim has joined #prov 14:40:20 Zakim, this will be PROV 14:40:20 ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes 14:40:21 Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference 14:40:21 Date: 04 April 2013 14:50:38 dgarijo has joined #prov 14:53:45 TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.04.04 14:55:14 SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started 14:55:21 +[IPcaller] 14:55:23 pgroth has joined #prov 14:55:36 trackbot, start telcon 14:55:38 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:55:40 Zakim, this will be PROV 14:55:40 ok, trackbot, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started 14:55:41 Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference 14:55:41 Date: 04 April 2013 14:55:43 Zakim, this will be PROV 14:55:44 ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started 14:56:19 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.04.04 14:56:30 Chair: Paul Groth 14:56:37 rrsagent, make logs public 14:56:38 GK-ALT has joined #prov 14:56:42 zakim, who is on the call? 14:56:42 On the phone I see [IPcaller] 14:56:50 Zakim, [IPcaller] is me 14:56:50 +pgroth; got it 14:57:16 +[IPcaller] 14:57:19 christine has joined #prov 14:58:06 Paolo has joined #prov 14:58:08 GK has joined #prov 14:58:49 +[IPcaller.a] 14:59:15 can anyone scribe? 14:59:17 Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is christine 14:59:17 +christine; got it 14:59:33 +??P6 14:59:37 jun has joined #prov 14:59:48 +??P10 14:59:49 zakim, ??p6 is me 14:59:51 +GK; got it 14:59:51 smiles has joined #prov 14:59:56 Zakim, ??P10 is me 14:59:56 +dgarijo; got it 15:00:13 scribe: christine 15:00:25 Luc_ has joined #prov 15:00:31 +[IPcaller.a] 15:00:32 + +1.661.748.aaaa 15:00:46 Zakim, who is on the call? 15:00:46 On the phone I see pgroth, [IPcaller], christine, GK, dgarijo, [IPcaller.a], +1.661.748.aaaa 15:00:50 khalidBelhajjame has joined #prov 15:00:53 zakim, « and » is me 15:00:53 I don't understand '« and » is me', stain 15:00:56 args! 15:01:00 +[IPcaller.aa] 15:01:12 zakim, +1.661.748.aaaa is me 15:01:12 +smiles; got it 15:01:13 zakim, +[IPcaller.aa] is me 15:01:13 sorry, Luc_, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.aa]' 15:01:17 zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me 15:01:17 +stain; got it 15:01:22 +[IPcaller.a] 15:01:22 Topic: Admin 15:01:28 zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me 15:01:28 +Luc_; got it 15:01:29 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-03-28 15:01:36 Minutes of March 28, 2013 Telcon 15:01:41 +1 15:01:45 Vote on minutes of last week 15:01:48 satya has joined #prov 15:01:48 +1 15:01:51 +1 15:01:58 +1 15:02:01 zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me 15:02:02 +1 15:02:03 +khalidBelhajjame; got it 15:02:23 +Satya_Sahoo 15:02:26 +1 15:02:26 accepted: Minutes of March 28, 2013 Telcon 15:02:33 hook has joined #prov 15:02:38 + +1.818.731.aabb 15:02:38 Review of Open Action Items 15:02:48 Update to editorial (for Paul) 15:02:49 +OpenLink_Software 15:02:54 zakim, code? 15:02:54 the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan 15:02:59 Closed - Graham took care of this 15:03:14 +ivan 15:03:16 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 15:03:16 +TallTed; got it 15:03:18 Zakim, mute me 15:03:18 TallTed should now be muted 15:03:21 Blog post action items are also closed 15:03:38 Topic: AC Rep Reminder 15:03:52 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/provpf/results 15:04:01 Results of current voting see link above 15:04:07 16 votes so far 15:04:25 Quite good. It would be good to have more votes. 15:04:43 Still waiting for some replies. We may get up to 19 votes by next week. 15:04:56 TomDN has joined #prov 15:04:58 +TomDN 15:05:06 Zakim, mute me 15:05:06 TomDN should now be muted 15:05:09 Paul: Please make sure your AC Reps vote. 15:05:12 1? 15:05:14 q? 15:05:25 Topic: Blog Posts 15:05:33 http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2013/03/29/dublin-core-to-prov-mapping/ 15:05:40 http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2013/04/03/successful-prov-tutorial-at-edbt/ 15:05:43 Paul: 2 blog posts in the last week - see links above 15:05:59 zednik has joined #prov 15:06:13 yes 15:06:16 yes 15:06:29 Thanks to Daniel and Stain for two additional blog posts 15:06:34 no problem :) 15:06:35 They will be posted in the next week 15:06:50 jcheney has joined #prov 15:06:59 +[IPcaller.a] 15:07:03 Topic: PROV-SEM 15:07:04 SamCoppens has joined #prov 15:07:05 Paul: review of outstanding items 15:07:23 zakim, I am with TomDN 15:07:23 +SamCoppens; got it 15:07:25 +jcheney 15:07:25 -jcheney 15:07:26 james? 15:07:27 Paul: is PROV-SEM ready to be sent out for review? 15:07:35 just tried calling in will try again 15:07:46 sorry 15:07:47 Moving to another item 15:07:50 Topic: PROV-Overview 15:08:17 Paul: Not ready - edits not finished - more time needed - hopefully can sent out by Monday of next week 15:08:22 q? 15:08:45 Topic: PROV-XML 15:08:46 +[IPcaller.aa] 15:08:59 zakim, +[ipcaller.aa] is me 15:08:59 sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named '+[ipcaller.aa]' 15:09:01 Update from Stephen 15:09:05 zakim, aa is me 15:09:05 sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named 'aa' 15:09:08 zakim, aa] is me 15:09:08 sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named 'aa]' 15:09:13 zakim, [ipcaller.aa] is me 15:09:13 +jcheney; got it 15:09:24 Stephen: is ready for review but is missing the FAQ entry 15:09:38 but the note content is ready for review 15:09:48 s/Stephen/zednik/ 15:09:51 Paul: is the schema finalised? 15:10:21 Stephen: yes but FAQ may introduce a modification to the new schema but not a change to the schema - so my intention that it is finalised 15:10:29 Paul: review by what date? 15:10:54 Stephen: staged last night - not sure 15:11:10 Paul: original reviews by 4 and changes by 15 15:11:29 Paul: if reviewed by 11 can you incorporate changes by 15 15:11:52 Stephen: hope so - small changes ok - but 11th and 15th should work 15:11:59 Paul: reviewer? 15:12:03 +1 15:12:16 +1 15:12:22 +1 15:12:45 Paul: any responses from our last publication of it? 15:12:57 ? from Luc 15:13:18 Paul: will try to get someone from Oracle to take a look 15:13:58 and would be good for Henry to review 15:14:10 q? 15:14:28 Topic: PROV-AQ 15:14:34 zakim, unmute me 15:14:34 sorry, SamCoppens, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 15:14:52 My review is following tonight 15:15:06 Graham: we have reviews in now from Stain and Luc - not one from Sam yet - had a cursory look at the review - not aware of any blocker there 15:15:09 but no blocking issues from my side 15:15:50 Graham: plan to review in detail in the coming week and finalise the document by this time next week - and then aim to hand over to Paul to finish up as will be out of circulation in 2 weeks time 15:16:05 Paul: Stain and Luc, could we vote to be a final note? 15:16:08 q+ 15:16:45 zakim, unmute TomDN 15:16:45 TomDN should no longer be muted 15:16:49 ack Luc_ 15:17:15 q+ 15:17:21 Luc: we want to publish the note - some comments are more serious than Graham said - related to ping back - would like to see some responses to my comments 15:17:23 ack SamCoppens 15:17:40 Sam: read the document today - will send review tonight - no blocking issues 15:17:48 q+ 15:17:51 I'll need to look in more detail at Luc;s comments, and the others - I'll respond when I do so. 15:18:10 ack stain 15:18:27 Stain: no blocking issues but some of my issues are more serious 15:18:32 zakim, mute TomDN 15:18:32 TomDN should now be muted 15:18:44 Paul: then let's wait for next week for the vote 15:19:06 to ensure issues are addressed before vote 15:19:06 q+ 15:19:15 ack jcheney 15:19:29 James: need reviewers for PROV-SEM 15:19:48 Topic: PROV-SEM 15:19:56 draft almost done: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/semantics/releases/NOTE-prov-sem-20130430/Overview.html 15:20:05 I'd like to review PROV-SEM, but cannot be sure I'll have time in the coming week. 15:20:38 James: vote on everything next week? 15:20:45 Paul: yes (if not today) 15:21:16 James: better if reviewers can look now rather than waiting for it to be completely done 15:21:22 I ll review it 15:21:23 Zakim, unmute me 15:21:23 TomDN should no longer be muted 15:21:26 q+ 15:21:32 Paul: reviewers 15:21:33 ack TomDN 15:21:55 I can review it 15:21:55 Tom: a colleague (logic/maths background) and Tom will review 15:22:00 when is it due again? 15:22:02 I'd like to review PROV-SEM, but cannot be sure I'll have time in the coming week 15:22:06 Zakim, mute me 15:22:06 TomDN should now be muted 15:22:09 Paul: review due by next Thursday 15:22:24 would love to but on leave, sorry... 15:22:48 q+ 15:22:48 I will try to complete 15:22:53 James: goal to have something complete - anything controversial will have to be left out 15:23:10 ack Luc_ 15:23:28 Luc: What change has been regarding this issue [?] 15:24:11 James: to get semantics general enough to not constrain the formal constraints - less of the connection to the inituitve model but necessary 15:24:27 James: takes a while to figure out the right way to do that 15:24:33 reviewers - Tom, Khalid, (tom's colleague), simon, satya, 15:24:41 +1 will attempt a quick review 15:24:53 Topic: PROV-Primer 15:25:14 Simon: received some reviews - only outstanding is from Craig 15:25:34 Simon: don't see any blocking issues - will make the changes by next week - timeframe is okay 15:25:36 q? 15:25:42 It read well, no comment really 15:26:01 Paul: agree, only a need for some minor changes 15:26:07 Paul: vote now 15:26:25 proposed: release prov-primer as a final note 15:26:28 +1 15:26:31 +1 15:26:32 +1 15:26:36 +1 15:26:37 +1 15:26:38 +1 15:26:39 +1 15:26:40 +1 15:26:41 +1 15:26:42 +1 15:26:55 +1 15:27:01 +1 15:27:12 +1 15:27:22 accepted: release prov-primer as a final note 15:27:30 Great, thanks :) 15:27:37 Topic: PROV-DC 15:27:38 Paul: congrats Simon and Yolanda 15:28:01 - received a couple of reviews - no blocking issues 15:28:06 q+ 15:28:09 - missing a review by Stain 15:28:27 ack stain 15:28:43 Stain: almost finished - some changes re mapping but should be able to be done in the week 15:28:53 Paul: given that, do not want to vote now 15:29:04 Paul: Tom's review was very long. What was the main issue? 15:29:49 - issue with how we declare the classes - specialising the ontology and also a lot of editorial issues with intro and also with naming spaces - no criticism of the mapppings - so i think no blocking issues 15:29:59 Paul: Stain, which mapping to change? 15:30:05 Stain: the is version 15:31:10 - analysed defns and realised they are equivalent - version and revisions {/} 15:31:57 - not necessarily a directional element - don't want to go into the detail now 15:32:06 Paul: only one? 15:32:10 - yes 15:32:15 q? 15:32:22 Paul: debate the issue online and delay the vote to next week 15:32:31 Zakim, unmute me 15:32:31 TomDN should no longer be muted 15:32:33 Topic: PROV-Dictionary 15:33:08 q? 15:33:08 +1 15:33:17 Craig: review from Luc and Simon, thanks, no blocking issues, have enough time, give an update next week, do not forsee problems 15:33:18 +q 15:33:20 q+ 15:33:27 ack Luc_ 15:34:07 Luc: in my review, indicated I have implemented PROV-Dictionary, but it turns out it was not working - it took a while to find problem - extensibility production and the new productions conflict 15:34:37 Luc: problem will also occur in PROV-LINKS 15:34:47 q- 15:35:07 Luc: fix in both 15:35:11 q+ 15:35:17 ack TomDN 15:35:21 ack Luc_ 15:35:24 Craig: suggest holding off on voting until the document is in a more final state 15:35:38 Craig = Tom 15:35:38 s/Craig/TomDN 15:35:47 s/TomDN/Craig 15:35:54 Luc: agree useful to have time to discuss issues further 15:36:03 q? 15:36:16 Topic: PROV-Links 15:36:19 Zakim, mute me 15:36:19 TomDN should now be muted 15:36:44 I have to leave now 15:36:56 Luc: 4 reviews received - thank you - have not had time to read them in detail - but you seem to be happy with the document - some small changes 15:37:00 No blocking issues from me 15:37:04 -[IPcaller.a] 15:37:06 q? 15:37:06 none from me either 15:37:08 No blockers that I recall 15:37:12 No bloking issues from me either 15:37:21 Topic: PROV Implementations 15:38:20 Paul: held it open a little longer - nothing to change in the text - just to rerun scripts to update the tables (essentially) - no need to review 15:38:22 +1 15:38:28 +1 15:38:45 Paul: one or two people who said they want to register another implementation 15:38:59 q? 15:38:59 Paul: there is still time 15:39:28 Topic: Provenance of Docs 15:39:35 +q 15:39:36 Paul: status? 15:39:48 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/e1fa26593295/provenance/test/prov-family.svg 15:39:57 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/e1fa26593295/provenance/test/prov-family.ttl 15:40:01 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/e1fa26593295/provenance/test/prov-family.provn 15:40:26 Luc: tried to recreate the history of all our documents assuming the specs were out 15:40:43 wow 15:40:57 Third link returns "error: provenance/test/prov-family.provn@e1fa26593295: not found in manifest" for me 15:41:25 Luc: covering all versions of the reports we publish - will ask all editors to check when finalised - also should add authorship - do we have URIs for everybody? 15:41:56 Paul: Ivan, can we use URLs for the name in the tracker to represent people? 15:42:11 @Luc: provn version, I get: error: provenance/test/prov-family.provn@e1fa26593295: not found in manifest 15:42:26 How many of us have ORCID IDs? 15:42:31 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/ 15:42:34 Ivan: hmm, it can be used ... but ... often people put a page about themselves on the wiki ... can you give me an example URL to look at in tracker? 15:42:54 Ivan: not ideal 15:43:08 WebID! :-) 15:43:09 you would have hoped for W3C to provide an ontology or dataset of every member! 15:43:13 Paul: wiki user pages? 15:43:19 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/User:Ctrim 15:43:19 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/User:Lmoreau 15:43:20 Ivan: not sure those are public 15:43:33 dgarijo has joined #prov 15:43:38 Ivan: what I was suggesting - if they are all complete that is fine 15:43:48 Ivan: they will be frozen 15:43:53 in foaf they might or might not be seen to represent accounts rather than people.. 15:44:09 q? 15:44:14 ack Luc_ 15:44:14 Paul: use wiki ones - so if you want your proper info recorded update your wiki page 15:44:19 Luc: fine with that 15:44:44 it might be easiest to identify people like [ a prov:Person, foaf:homepage ] 15:45:09 foaf:homepage is inverse functional, thus identifying (but not being) the person 15:45:19 [?] useful to add the link from the RDF files ... 15:45:20 q+ 15:45:31 s/SVG/RDF 15:45:42 s/SVG/RDF/ 15:45:44 Paul: can we do content negotation on SVG? 15:46:02 Ivan: not exactly - not a serialisation 15:46:06 q+ 15:46:12 ack pgroth 15:46:17 ack Luc_ 15:46:44 Luc: when the file is more or less finalised - post a blog explaining provenance - could put the SVG file there 15:47:02 q? 15:47:04 you COULD define a prov-diagram that is a formal language that says how to describe prov-dm as a diagram - and then the SVG could still be a representation of the provenance 15:47:09 possibly better pages than wiki -- e.g., https://www.w3.org/users/42501 15:47:11 Ivan: could point to as wekk 15:47:24 q? 15:47:30 TallTed: except they are seeecret :( 15:47:37 secret 15:47:39 Zakim, unmute me 15:47:39 TallTed should no longer be muted 15:47:53 q+ 15:47:56 I get Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges 15:47:59 No, browser is asking for login 15:48:08 ack smiles 15:48:24 up to editors 15:48:29 Simon: re provenance for primer - what is the preference? 15:48:40 Luc: editors can decide to use the same provenance, don't have to 15:49:06 q+ 15:49:12 ack ivan 15:49:16 Paul: thanks everyone, good work, keep it up 15:49:18 @Simon: we did already a file for prov-o. You can base yours in that one, if you want 15:49:55 Ivan: votes ends on Tuesday - well send an official transition request to publish - expect to get green light by email - try to take care of this next week 15:50:14 bbye 15:50:17 -Satya_Sahoo 15:50:18 bye 15:50:18 -christine 15:50:19 -pgroth 15:50:19 Bye 15:50:20 - +1.818.731.aabb 15:50:21 -ivan 15:50:21 -[IPcaller] 15:50:23 -Luc_ 15:50:24 bye 15:50:24 -dgarijo 15:50:26 -smiles 15:50:27 Bye! 15:50:28 -TallTed 15:50:29 -TomDN 15:50:29 -stain 15:50:33 rrsagent, set log public 15:50:34 -jcheney 15:50:36 -khalidBelhajjame 15:50:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:50:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-prov-minutes.html pgroth 15:50:39 -GK 15:50:39 rackbot, end telcon 15:50:40 SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended 15:50:40 Attendees were pgroth, [IPcaller], christine, GK, dgarijo, smiles, stain, Luc_, khalidBelhajjame, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aabb, ivan, TallTed, TomDN, SamCoppens, jcheney 15:50:40 SamCoppens has left #prov 15:50:43 trackbot, end telcon 15:50:43 Zakim, list attendees 15:50:43 sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is 15:50:51 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 15:50:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/04-prov-minutes.html trackbot 15:50:52 RRSAgent, bye 15:50:52 I see no action items