16:45:34 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:45:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/28-ua-irc 16:45:36 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:45:36 Zakim has joined #ua 16:45:38 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:45:38 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes 16:45:39 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:45:39 Date: 28 March 2013 16:54:48 jeanne has joined #ua 16:55:01 Agenda+ conformance survey 16:55:05 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 16:55:09 Agenda+ Proposal to remove 2.12.13 16:55:12 + +1.425.883.aaaa 16:55:23 Agenda+ Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 16:55:35 Agenda+ Conformance requirements for platform 16:55:56 chair: KellyFord, JimAllan 16:57:53 +Jim_Allan 16:58:11 +Jeanne 16:58:15 zakim, aaaa is really KellyFord 16:58:15 +KellyFord; got it 17:00:36 Greg has joined #ua 17:00:59 zakim, who is here? 17:00:59 On the phone I see KellyFord, Jim_Allan, Jeanne 17:01:00 On IRC I see Greg, jeanne, Zakim, RRSAgent, allanj, trackbot 17:01:08 +Greg_Lowney 17:03:28 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:04:50 Jan has joined #ua 17:04:51 sharper has joined #ua 17:04:57 zakim, code? 17:04:57 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 17:05:29 +Kim_Patch 17:06:13 +??P10 17:06:33 zakim, ??P10 is really Jan 17:06:33 +Jan; got it 17:09:32 +Eric 17:11:08 +??P15 17:11:16 zakim, ??P15 is sharper 17:11:16 +sharper; got it 17:12:19 Eric_Hansen has joined #ua 17:13:26 kford has joined #ua 17:13:46 I'll be a bit slow on irc, using the web client. 17:14:17 zakim, agenda? 17:14:17 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 17:14:19 1. conformance survey [from allanj] 17:14:19 2. Proposal to remove 2.12.13 [from allanj] 17:14:19 3. Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 [from allanj] 17:14:19 4. Conformance requirements for platform [from allanj] 17:14:57 scribe: allanj 17:15:23 open item 2 17:15:34 Proposal to remove 2.12.13 17:15:35 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0091.html 17:16:39 js: reviewing 2.12. 2.12.1 pointing device for input of text, level A. 17:17:13 2.12.2 pointing for navigation, level AA, which include Level A from 2.12.1 17:17:44 2.12.3 is combining 1 & 2 , seems redundant 17:18:05 jr: confusing, seems to be a platform support issue 17:18:31 ... if platform supports any input method...keyboard, pointing device, perhaps gesture 17:18:32 Here's the complete text of all three: 17:18:33 2.12.1 Support Platform Text Input Devices: If the platform supports text input using an input device, the user agent is compatible with this functionality. (Level A) 17:18:35 2.12.2 Operation With Any Device: If an input device is supported by the platform , all user agent functionality other than text input can be operated using that device. (Level AA) 17:18:36 2.12.3 Text Input With Any Device: If an input device is supported by the platform , all user agent functionality including text input can be operated using that device. (Level AAA) 17:18:56 kp: gesture is subset of touch 17:19:01 kford has joined #ua 17:19:18 ... voice is several ways, keyboard shortcuts 17:19:48 kf: can you issue a touch with voice, drag in from right edge 17:20:05 kp: yes, but say it a different way. 17:20:49 ... can change wording to make it functional 17:21:16 jr: there is some platform service that converts voice to some screen action 17:22:10 kf: there are 3 device input handlers - keyboard, pointer, touch 17:22:18 jr: but not 4 17:23:03 jr: perhaps collapse 2.12 to use platform input handlers. 17:23:33 kf: don't want UA to write this, want to use platform services 17:23:50 kp: does 1 & 2 negate need for 3 17:23:56 ja: yes 17:24:24 jr: is there a way to simplify. 2.12 is hard to read & understand 17:25:13 jr: says even text input can be done with a mouse 17:25:42 gl: if platform doesn't have onscreen keyboard, then the UA can add one per 2.12.3 17:27:14 gl: if device has no keyboard, then 2.12.1 is NA, but if provides onscreen keyboard, then can say YES to 2.12.3 17:27:27 ... they are similar enough to be confusing. 17:27:41 EDITORS will smith this. 17:28:38 gl: summary would be a good place to cover explanation, and it needs rewritten. current summary not adequate. 17:28:45 gl: put on survey? 17:28:54 zakim, agenda? 17:28:54 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 17:28:55 1. conformance survey [from allanj] 17:28:55 2. Proposal to remove 2.12.13 [from allanj] 17:28:55 3. Eric Hansen comments on UAAG 2.0 [from allanj] 17:28:55 4. Conformance requirements for platform [from allanj] 17:29:12 close item 2 17:29:26 open item 1 17:29:36 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130225/results 17:33:00 topic: Conformance for Platform 17:33:11 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/36791/20130321/ 17:33:53 Proposal: Proposed 17:33:54 Platform: Include the name, manufacturer, and version information of operating system, operating environment, and/or application on which the user agent is being hosted. (Example platforms could include Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a hosting web browser, and... 17:33:56 ...Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All would include specific version numbers or ranges.) Include any required configuration changes to the platform (e.g.a web-based browser will conform when run on Firefox with the Mouseless Browsing extension) and any relevant hardware limitations (e.g. minimum screen... 17:33:58 ...size, audio output). 17:35:45 reword from Jan: 17:35:50 Platform: Provide relevant information regarding the software and/or hardware platform(s) on which the user agent depends for conformance. This information may include: 17:35:52 - hardware limitations (e.g., audio output enabled, minimum screen size: 2") 17:35:53 - operating system(s) (e.g., Windows 8, Android 4.0+, iOS 5.0+, GNOME 2) 17:35:55 - other software environment (Java SE 7+, Eclipse 3.7+) 17:35:56 - "host" web browser - relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox 14+, Safari 7.0+) 17:37:06 proposal from Eric: 17:38:02 Required Components of UAAG 2.0 Conformance Claims (normative) 17:38:04 Each component is required unless explicitly cited as “optional.” 17:38:05 1. Claimant name and affiliation. 17:38:07 2. Claimant contact information 17:38:08 3. Date of the claim. 17:38:10 4. Conformance level satisfied (level A, AA, or AAA).. 17:38:12 5. User agent information: Provide the name of the user agent and sufficient additional information to specify the version (e.g. vendor name, version number or version range, required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation). 17:38:14 Note 1: If the user agent is a collection of software components (e.g. a browser and extensions or plugins), then the name and version information must be provided separately for each component, although the conformance claim will treat them as a whole. 17:38:16 6. Platform: Describe the *platform* 17:39:57 (software and hardware) on which the user agent depends for conformance. Include the name, manufacturer, and version of key software components (e.g., operating system, operating environment) as well as hostedkey hardware components or limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal[Do we need to state an aspect ratio?], audio output device, [What about input devices?]). Also... 17:39:58 ...describe any required configuration changes to the platform.[It is possible that some local configuration requirements may be best documented in the declarations] 17:40:00 7. Range of web content technologies rendered [By the way, do they actually have to be “web” content technologies. Do we need to specify web?] 17:40:02 a. Web content technologies rendered. Identify all web content technologies the rendering of which is relied upon to meet the claimed conformance level. 17:40:27 By including a web content technology, the claimant is claiming that the user agent meets the requirements of UAAG 2.0 (at the claimed level) during the rendering of web content using that web content technology. 17:40:29 Note: Web content technologies may be a combination of constituent web content technologies. For example, an image technology (e.g. PNG) might be listed together with a markup technology (e.g. HTML) since web content in the markup technology is used make web content in the image technology. 17:41:38 q+ to discuss the specific implementation information - e.g. Webkit 17:41:40 1. b. Content technologies not relied upon (optional). Identify one or more web content technologies that are not relied upon to meet the claimed conformance level. The user agent is not required to meet the requirements of UAAG 2.0 in the rendering web content technologies on this list. 17:41:42 8. Declarations: Provide, for each success criterion, : a declaration of either (a) whether or not the success criterion has been satisfied;, or (b) a declaration that the success criterion is not applicable and a rationale for why not. 17:42:22 Glossary entry: 17:42:24 platform 17:42:26 1. In the context of this document [or the conformance section of this document], this refers to the software and hardware on which the user agent operates. [Or “in which the user agent is hosted”]. Examples of key software components of a software platform ordinarily might include 17:42:28 a. operating system(s) (e.g., Windows, Android, iOS) [??GNOME] 17:42:29 b. other operating environment (Java SE, Eclipse) 17:42:31 c. host web browser (relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox, Safari) 17:42:33 [Should a platform be able to include software AT?)] 17:42:35 [Other possible materials to include: Microsoft Windows an operating system, Gnome and the Java Runtime Environment as operating environments, Eclipse as a hosting IDE, Mozilla Firefox for OS X as a hosting web browser, and Samsung's version of Google Android for the Galaxy S III as a combination of customized operating system and hardware. All would include specific version numbers or ranges.”] 17:42:37 Examples of platform hardware might be: 17:42:39 a. operating-system-computers (e.g., Windows 8 compatible laptops, etc). 17:42:41 b. [Should a platform be able to include hardware AT?)] 17:42:43 2. More generally [Any other meaning of platform ] 17:42:45 [Comments on current 22 March 2013 version of glossary entry for “platform”: 17:42:47 platform 17:42:49 software and hardware environment(s) within which the user agent operates. Platforms provide a consistent operational environment. There may be layers of software in a hardware architecture and that each layer may be considered a platform. *Non-web-based* platforms include desktop operating systems (e.g. Linux, MacOS, Windows, etc.), mobile operating systems (e.g. Android, Blackberry, iOS,... 17:42:51 ...Windows Phone, etc.), and cross-OS environments (e.g. Java). *Web-based* platforms are other user agents . User agents may employ server-based processing, such as web content transformations, text-to-speech production, etc. 17:42:53 Note 1: A user agent may include functionality hosted on multiple platforms (e.g. a browser running on the desktop may include server-based pre-processing and web-based documentation). 17:42:55 Note 2: Accessibility guidelines for developers exist for many platforms 17:44:53 eh: tried to move some of the detail out of conformance claim and into def of Platform 17:49:13 eh: what are the platform(s) that you are making the claim about...then ask what you tested on 17:51:29 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0087.html 17:53:41 eric proposal http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0094.html 17:58:50 If the user agent is a collection of software components that have different version numbers (e.g. a browser and extensions or plugins), then the name and version information must be provided separately for each component, although the conformance claim will treat them as a whole. 18:06:46 gl: mouseless browsing is a modification to the UA not the platform 18:07:53 The Mouseless Browsing add-in would be listed in 5 for platform-based user agents (because it's an add-in for the user agent for which the claim is written), or in 6 for web-based user agent (because it's an add-in for the browser hosting the user agent). 18:10:07 I'd add a new paragraph between 5 and 6 which would be about configuration changes to the user agent, including add-ins and non-default preference settings. 18:10:32 That would be in contrast to the sentence in 6 about configuration changes to the platform on which the user agent is hosted. 18:11:12 eh: configuration changes to the local UA not the Platform. perhaps should be on an SC 18:11:37 gl: would not want this, much cause conflicts. 18:13:07 s/this, much/may 18:15:43 User agent information: Provide the name of the user agent and sufficient additional information to specify the version (e.g. vendor name, version number or version range, required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation). 18:15:43 Note: If the user agent is a collection of software components that have different version numbers (e.g. a browser and extensions or plugins), then the name and version information must be provided separately for each component, although the conformance claim will treat them as a whole. 18:17:15 5. User agent information: 18:17:17 a. name 18:17:19 b. version number or version range, 18:17:21 c. required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation). 18:17:23 d. hardware limitations (e.g., audio output enabled, minimum screen size: 2") 18:17:25 e. operating system(s) (e.g., Windows 8, Android 4.0+, iOS 5.0+, GNOME 2) 18:17:27 f. other software environment (Java SE 7+, Eclipse 3.7+) 18:17:29 g. "host" web browser - relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox 14+, Safari 7.0+) 18:17:31 h. Include any required configuration changes to the user agent (e.g. ignore author forground/background color) 18:19:11 new... 18:19:22 5. User agent information: 18:19:23 a. name 18:19:25 b. version number or version range, 18:19:27 c. required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation). 18:19:29 d. Include any required configuration changes to the user agent (e.g. ignore author foreground/background color) 18:25:09 ------------------------------------------ 18:25:17 5. User agent information: 18:25:18 a. name and manufacturer 18:25:20 b. version number or version range, 18:25:22 c. required patches or updates, human language of the user interface or documentation). 18:25:24 d. Include any required configuration changes to the user agent (e.g. ignore author forground/background color) 18:25:26 e. required plugins or extensions with versions (e.g., mouseless browsing) 18:25:28 6. Platform: Describe the *platform* (software and hardware) on which the user agent depends for conformance. 18:25:30 a. name and manufacturer 18:25:32 b. version of key software components (e.g., operating system, operating environment) 18:25:34 c. key hardware components or limitations (e.g., minimum screen size: 2-inch diagonal, audio output device). 18:25:36 d. any required configuration changes to the platform (e.g., turn on sticky keys) 18:25:38 e. operating system(s) (e.g., Windows 8, Android 4.0+, iOS 5.0+, GNOME 2) 18:25:40 f. other software environment (Java SE 7+, Eclipse 3.7+) 18:25:42 g. "host" web browser - relevant when the conforming user agent is web-based (e.g., Firefox 14+, Safari 7.0+) 18:26:18 gl: 3rd party add ons should be a separate list item 18:26:30 js: lets just go with this... 18:27:29 jr: the claimant should list required add-on and versions 18:28:27 all agree this is ok!!!!!!!!! 18:31:19 rrsagent, set logs public 18:31:33 rrsagent, make minutes 18:31:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/28-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:31:37 -sharper 18:31:38 -Jan 18:31:39 -Eric 18:31:41 -Kim_Patch 18:31:42 -Greg_Lowney 18:31:54 zakim, who is here? 18:31:54 On the phone I see KellyFord, Jim_Allan, Jeanne 18:31:55 rrsagent, make minutes 18:32:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/28-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:32:09 On IRC I see kford, Eric_Hansen, sharper, KimPatch, Greg, jeanne, Zakim, RRSAgent, allanj, trackbot 18:32:10 sharper has left #ua 18:34:05 rrsagent, please part 18:34:05 I see no action items 18:35:55 RRSAgent has joined #ua 18:35:55 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/28-ua-irc 18:36:26 rrsagent, make minutes 18:36:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/28-ua-minutes.html allanj