14:50:52 RRSAgent has joined #prov 14:50:52 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/28-prov-irc 14:50:54 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:50:54 Zakim has joined #prov 14:50:56 Zakim, this will be PROV 14:50:56 ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes 14:50:56 zakim, this will be PROV 14:50:57 Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference 14:50:57 Date: 28 March 2013 14:50:58 ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes 14:51:07 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.03.28 14:51:22 Chair: Luc Moreau 14:52:00 Scribe: dgarijo 14:52:23 rrsagent, make logs public 14:53:14 dgarijo has joined #prov 14:55:35 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.03.28 14:56:39 Hi daniel, are you OK to scribe? 14:57:04 khalidBelhajjame has joined #prov 14:57:55 SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started 14:58:03 + +44.238.059.aaaa 14:58:32 +??P2 14:58:53 zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me 14:58:54 +Luc; got it 14:59:01 GK has joined #prov 14:59:08 Hi daniel, are you OK to scribe? 14:59:12 +[IPcaller] 14:59:13 zednik has joined #prov 14:59:15 zakim, ??p2 is me 14:59:15 +GK; got it 14:59:27 Paolo has joined #prov 14:59:34 Hi Luc, yes, I'm ok. 15:00:03 +??P13 15:00:09 Zakim, ??P13 is me 15:00:10 +dgarijo; got it 15:00:42 jcheney has joined #prov 15:00:55 + +1.818.731.aabb 15:01:20 hook has joined #prov 15:01:24 - +1.818.731.aabb 15:01:47 + +1.818.731.aacc 15:01:59 scribe: dgarijo 15:02:23 Luc: today we are going to Luc at the documents we are going to release+ organize reviews. 15:02:25 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-03-21 15:02:26 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.03.28 15:02:32 christine has joined #prov 15:02:34 Proposed: approved last week's minutes 15:02:43 +jcheney 15:02:46 dgarijo:+0 (I wasn't) 15:02:51 zakim, who is here? 15:02:51 On the phone I see Luc, GK, [IPcaller], dgarijo, +1.818.731.aacc, jcheney 15:02:54 On IRC I see christine, hook, jcheney, Paolo, zednik, GK, khalidBelhajjame, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, GK-alt, TallTed, ivan, stain, trackbot 15:02:58 +[IPcaller.a] 15:03:06 I'm here 15:03:08 me :) 15:03:10 here 15:03:16 here 15:03:16 Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is christine 15:03:16 +christine; got it 15:03:18 +1 15:03:19 +SamCoppens 15:03:19 Wasn't present last week meeting. 15:03:21 +1 15:03:23 +0 15:03:24 TomDN has joined #prov 15:03:35 +0 15:03:35 zakim, code? 15:03:35 the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan 15:03:36 RESOLVED: last week's minutes 15:03:39 0 (not present) 15:03:51 Luc:a few open actions left 15:03:57 +ivan 15:04:00 ... Paul -> prov overview document 15:04:07 +[IPcaller.a] 15:04:14 ... another one for Graham. Is it done (about PAQ). 15:04:25 Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:04:25 On the phone I see Luc, GK, [IPcaller], dgarijo, +1.818.731.aacc, jcheney, christine, SamCoppens, ivan, [IPcaller.a] 15:04:34 actuib0-166? 15:04:39 Looking... 15:04:40 action-166? 15:04:40 ACTION-166 -- Graham Klyne to add a bit of text explaining the inconsistency between html/rdf and http -- due 2013-03-21 -- OPEN 15:04:40 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/actions/166 15:04:44 Zakim, tomDN is with SamCoppens 15:04:44 +tomDN; got it 15:04:51 Yes, did it. 15:04:58 Zakim, tomDN is me 15:04:58 sorry, TomDN, I do not recognize a party named 'tomDN' 15:05:01 GK: (can't understand). 15:05:06 smiles has joined #prov 15:05:08 I'm going to re-connect 15:05:10 Zakim, mute me 15:05:10 sorry, TomDN, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 15:05:12 -GK 15:05:22 Zakim, TomDN is with SamCoppens 15:05:22 tomDN was already listed in SamCoppens, TomDN 15:05:41 +??P32 15:05:47 Luc: Action to Paul to talk to james about reviewing xml 15:05:51 zakim, ??P32 is smiles 15:05:53 +smiles; got it 15:05:59 +??P1 15:06:02 q? 15:06:06 zakim, ??p1 is me 15:06:06 +GK; got it 15:06:37 jcheney: ran across Henry Thompson, who is willing in principle o take a look, but not sure. Will try to ask other people 15:06:45 Luc: Action is now closed. 15:06:48 topic: prov-xml 15:06:50 ... PROV-XML 15:07:07 ... we had a few issues. The first one is about the media type 15:07:21 ... we have received some feedback this morning 15:07:33 ... stephan, have you had a chance to look at it? 15:07:54 zednik:will read it and provide a response before the end of the day 15:08:12 q? 15:08:25 Luc: next item is the jaxb issue 15:08:53 hook: we may have a potential candidate solution. 15:09:27 ... it may be depending the jaxb implementation. 15:10:40 CraigTrim has joined #PROV 15:10:44 zakim, who is noisy? 15:10:50 ... One possible solution is to remove the sequence inside to ??? (I'm getting a lot of noise). 15:10:55 Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (8%), GK (18%), +1.818.731.aacc (94%), ivan (43%) 15:11:09 That\'s odd - I'm muted. 15:11:18 Reconnecting again. 15:11:21 -GK 15:11:23 I muted myself 15:11:26 is it better? 15:11:29 +Satya_Sahoo 15:11:39 satya has joined #prov 15:12:00 +??P1 15:12:08 zakim, ??p1 is me 15:12:08 +GK; got it 15:12:17 Luc: what is the timetable, was it today? How are you planning to move towards a decission. 15:12:26 q+ 15:12:59 ack z 15:13:02 hook: we may need to get some confirmation. The possible solution requires one edit, but that will be the only change (adding the document bundling class). 15:13:10 +CraigTrim 15:13:48 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/WorkplanTillFinalPublication 15:13:55 zednik: We are going to add a level of indirection to the xml serialization. I was not aware that we were going to release something today. 15:14:41 Luc: somebody said that in the current timetable. If that's not the case then we should correct it. This will be the final internal review. 15:14:49 q? 15:15:05 Luc: when could we hope to have a proposal to the group. 15:15:08 ... ? 15:15:27 q? 15:16:26 hook: it will be a very small edit change. It can be done shortly after we get confimration to the solution. 15:16:37 zednik: by next thursday would be good? 15:16:52 Luc: we need to have the document staged by the 23 of April. 15:17:23 ... If there is a vote on the 4th and a release on the 11th then we are tight on time. 15:17:37 zednik: ok, we will have it by tuesday. 15:17:39 Luc: ok 15:18:07 ... the we don't need to set up reviewers yet. 15:18:16 q? 15:18:17 zednik: ok. I'll stage the document as well. 15:18:21 Luc: thanks. 15:18:27 topic: prov-aq 15:18:41 Luc: Is the doc ready for review? 15:18:54 Yes, dpocument is ready 15:19:00 GK: I'll write down my responses 15:19:03 See: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/5 15:19:18 Sam volunteers 15:19:24 Luc: reviewers for PROV-AQ? 15:20:07 +[IPcaller.aa] 15:20:08 Luc: it would be nice to have Tim's input as well. 15:20:16 Zakim, IPcaller.aa is me 15:20:16 +stain; got it 15:20:31 (I'll take a look at it as well, but will integrate my comments in Sam's review) 15:20:35 Luc: stian? 15:20:58 stain: ok, I'll do a quick one 15:21:06 log that Stian won't do an evil review this time 15:21:17 :D 15:21:21 For reviewers, the comments in the tracker may help you locate the chamnges 15:21:30 Luc: anything else? 15:21:38 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/5 15:21:48 Also change log in document. 15:22:02 ... the intent is that we'd like to have the reviews complete by the 4th of April. 15:22:06 Mercurial can provide diffs if required. 15:22:08 q? 15:22:22 Luc: prov-primer 15:22:24 topic: prov-primer 15:22:46 Luc: status? 15:23:04 smiles: I thiyght that it was going to be easy, but I'm struggling a bit. 15:23:18 r/thiyght/thought 15:23:27 ... I'm aiming to finish tomorrow 15:23:29 Luc: ok 15:23:43 ... will the document be staged tomorrow? 15:23:49 smiles: I don't know. 15:24:00 ... working as fast as I can 15:24:23 Luc: ok, as soon as you can stage the document 15:24:30 smiles: sure. 15:24:59 zakim, who is noisy? 15:25:09 I can have a look at the primer 15:25:10 stain, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 15:25:22 zakim, who is noisy? 15:25:33 stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (36%), smiles (91%) 15:26:02 smiles: influence relationship. Should that be included in the primer? 15:26:13 +1 15:26:20 q? 15:26:51 q? 15:27:27 q+ 15:27:30 smiles: I have the feeling that it might not be that important. Is there any objection to include bundles and collections? 15:27:31 +1 - it could also be used for "other provenance" we don't quite cover - like I've used wasInfluencedBy as a superproperty of purl.org/pav/html#http://purl.org/pav/sourceAccessedAt 15:28:01 Luc: you can include a small section for provenance of provenance. 15:28:06 q? 15:28:13 ack Luc 15:28:20 +1 for provenance of provenance section 15:28:40 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/WorkplanTillFinalPublication 15:28:44 Luc: Simon, please update the timetable. 15:28:56 pgroth has joined #prov 15:29:24 smiles: sure. The timetable should be left as it is. 15:29:32 topic: prov-dc 15:29:34 i'm not on the call 15:29:39 but will follow irc 15:31:39 q? 15:32:06 q? 15:32:23 I can volunteer as I've been doing something similar mapping with dcterms recently 15:32:40 i'm already going to read it 15:32:47 what is the deadline for the review? 15:32:49 assuming we're talking about prov-dc 15:32:58 and the URI for what to review 15:33:05 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/prov/raw-file/default/dc-note/dc-note.html ? 15:33:34 q? 15:33:37 Paul and Stian will review prov-dc 15:33:45 topic: prov-dictionary 15:33:47 Daniel: 2 issues remain to be added to tghe document: 1- finish the dc:references debate. 2) add something about prov:hasProvenance. 15:34:00 http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/WorkplanTillFinalPublication 15:34:03 Reviews complete by: 2013-04-04 15:34:20 Daniel: Will finish and stage the document tomorrow for internal reviw. 15:34:21 https://www.w3.org/2011/prov/track/products/19 15:35:02 Tom: we are running a bit behind but it will be done by the end of today/tomorrow morning. 15:35:16 dgarijo, is it just the default/dc-note/dc-note.html in mercurial? 15:35:31 @stian: yes. 15:35:34 great 15:36:01 changed prov:KeyValuePair to prov:KeyEntityPair; prov:keyValuePair to prov:keyEntityPair; prov:pairValue to prov:pairEntity. 15:36:04 Tom: I have done a little change to key entity pair in order to make it less ambiguous. 15:36:34 ... makes things a lot more consistent 15:36:44 +1 15:36:44 +1 to this change 15:36:52 ... if there are objections I can change it back 15:36:53 q+ 15:37:22 ack L 15:37:24 - +1.818.731.aacc 15:37:56 q? 15:38:00 Tom: we don't want to touch the definition of influence, so the proposal is to leave things as they are. 15:38:09 Luc: what is the implication for the owl file? 15:38:15 +1 for not touching influence 15:38:23 Tom: it still needs to be updated. And the xml schema. 15:38:51 Luc: once you've completed the doc it will be fine to inform Tim and Stephan about the latest changes 15:39:21 q? 15:39:26 Luc: we had identified some reviewer: Luc, Simon. Anybody else? 15:40:03 q? 15:40:06 ... the reviews are due by next week. 15:40:10 ... anything else? 15:40:13 topic: prov-overview 15:40:44 suggestions due today 15:40:57 Luc: There was a call for suggestions and the deadline was today. Paul was going to produce the next version for next week 15:41:03 document ready for review next week? 15:41:09 I had some from Tim, Graham, and also outside 15:41:16 it will be ready for review next week 15:41:17 yes 15:41:26 thanks 15:41:48 We have craig also. Anybody else? 15:41:58 it's not long :-) 15:42:11 Ivan, it would be nice if you could have a look with your w3c hat. 15:42:26 q? 15:42:32 Ivan: I have to go to China, I don't think I'll be able. 15:42:42 q? 15:42:58 ... if the doc is ready at the beggining of next week, I'll do it. 15:43:08 ok 15:43:11 (Small note on prov-dictionary: there is a small change in the prov-n grammar: the production rules keyValuePairs and keyValuePair changed to keyEntityPairs and keyEntityPair. Will update the grammar file and notify Luc, sorry) 15:43:14 i'll try and make sure it's up-to-date 15:43:18 before then 15:43:20 topic: prov-links 15:43:29 Luc: PROV-Links is ready for review. 15:43:45 Yes 15:43:46 I just sent a brief review of prov-links to the mailing list 15:43:53 ... I sent an email earlier today. smiles had volunteeres. Is it still the case? 15:43:59 I volunteer for prov-links as well 15:44:00 (Just now!) 15:44:06 ...anybody else' 15:44:10 ...? 15:44:36 Tom, Simon and Graham will review prov-links. 15:44:39 q? 15:44:47 q+ 15:44:54 Do any editors want to bring any issues ? 15:45:03 ack sm 15:45:58 smiles: section about collections and bundles to the primer. My concern is about prov-o examples. There is no "official" way. 15:45:58 q? 15:45:58 that sounds like the most obvious way to do it 15:46:04 q+ 15:46:15 ack st 15:46:20 (I'm checking what PROV-AQ says here - I think it's compatible) 15:46:43 -CraigTrim 15:46:54 stian: yes, prov-o examples are fine. But it's not the only way. 15:46:58 for instance when using SPARQL it would make more sense to do them as named graphs 15:47:10 yes thanks 15:47:21 Luc: are you fine with this? 15:47:24 simon: yes 15:47:27 topic: Updates to FAQ / posts / other 15:47:28 q+ 15:47:52 Luc: stian, were you preparing a blog post? 15:47:53 Confirm no disagreement with note in PROV-AQ (re bundles in primer discussion) 15:48:04 stian: yes, it's a bit long. 15:48:14 q? 15:48:29 ... I can post it in my blog and then referr from the w3c blog 15:48:33 Luc: up to you 15:48:38 q? 15:48:46 zakim, who is noisy 15:48:46 I don't understand 'who is noisy', Luc 15:48:48 zakim, who is noisy? 15:48:59 Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: smiles (60%) 15:49:07 ivan: we have slightly more than 2 weeks to take all the votes together. 15:49:11 iMinds, Apple, VU, NASA, Newcastle Univ, OpenLink, IBM, Pacific Northwest, Wright Univ, INRIA 15:49:22 ... large nubmer of members that have not voted. 15:49:29 I am talking to my acrep! 15:49:40 @ivan: UPM has voted. 15:49:47 Hmmm… I did ask our AC rep (Oxford) 15:50:06 @tallted, last week you said you would talk to your acrep? 15:50:14 ... there are a number of companies that they are not anymore here. 15:50:29 ivan: yes, UPM has voted. 15:50:56 ... we have to get emails to the missing persons in the group and their acrep. 15:50:59 @Ivan, only AC rep can vote? Or can we as members do it? 15:51:28 Luc: we have already contacted all members individually, last week. 15:51:33 9 days ago I got the reminder from Luc 15:51:55 ivan: do you have the list with the AC rep? 15:52:07 Luc: very few of them responded to me directly. 15:52:22 ivan: some of them are here. 15:52:52 ivan: Edinbourgh? Manchester? 15:52:59 ... those are here. 15:53:03 I have just reminded my Manchester contact again, but he's been on holiday this week 15:53:28 ivan: how do you want to handle that? WHat is the best to do it? 15:53:43 Luc: Ted said he would talk to his acrep. Ted? 15:53:58 open link already voted ? 15:54:05 ivan: at some point in time we have to contact the acreps 15:54:58 ... I don't want to contact the acreps again. If I have the list of those acreps that don't have an active member, I can contact them 15:55:04 apologies - moving to next call - thank you Luc, all 15:55:10 2013-04-09 23:59 boston time 15:55:16 -christine 15:55:23 ...^^deadline for votes 15:55:37 ... next thursday is sort of ok. 15:56:04 Luc: thx for bringing that up 15:56:15 I've just sent a chasing email to our AC Rep. 15:56:44 action pgroth to post daniel'post 15:56:44 Created ACTION-169 - Post daniel'post [on Paul Groth - due 2013-04-04]. 15:56:51 Daniel has sent blog post to Paul 15:57:11 Luc: many people have given tutorials. 15:57:36 Paolo: I how do I do it? 15:57:38 will do 15:57:48 paolo: you can send the blog post to me 15:58:14 zakim, mute ivan 15:58:14 ivan should now be muted 15:58:16 @pgroth I did send it earlier today 15:58:19 Luc: send the tutorials to Paul 15:58:22 will send a slightly revised version 15:58:42 cool 15:58:51 http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PROV-FAQ 15:58:53 Luc: FAQ brainstorm 15:59:02 ... what do we want to add? 15:59:03 +q 15:59:16 who is going to add it? 15:59:25 -smiles 15:59:37 zakim, unmute ivan 15:59:37 ivan should no longer be muted 15:59:50 zakim, mute ivan 15:59:50 ivan should now be muted 15:59:58 ack iv 16:00:13 zakim, mute ivan 16:00:13 ivan should now be muted 16:00:35 need to go... 16:00:39 -[IPcaller] 16:00:52 action dgarijo to draft blog post on provenance as rdfa in html documents 16:00:52 Created ACTION-170 - Draft blog post on provenance as rdfa in html documents [on Daniel Garijo - due 2013-04-04]. 16:00:53 Daniel: draft blog post on rdf-a and PROV. 16:01:17 @daniel, I can help with this 16:01:18 Luc: If you think on something, could you circulate it to the list? 16:01:24 @paul: thanks 16:01:27 -ivan 16:01:27 Luc goodbye 16:01:30 -Satya_Sahoo 16:01:33 -jcheney 16:01:34 -dgarijo 16:01:36 Bye 16:01:40 -Luc 16:01:41 -GK 16:01:47 -SamCoppens 16:03:41 GK has left #prov 16:03:55 -stain 16:11:14 -[IPcaller.a] 16:11:16 SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended 16:11:16 Attendees were Luc, [IPcaller], GK, dgarijo, +1.818.731.aabb, +1.818.731.aacc, jcheney, christine, SamCoppens, ivan, tomDN, smiles, Satya_Sahoo, CraigTrim, stain 16:36:08 Luc - sorry, failed to attend today... our rep voted last week -- within hours of meeting. unless I sent him to the wrong poll? 17:42:03 TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ -- agenda http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.03.28 18:27:58 Zakim has left #prov