14:58:54 RRSAgent has joined #rdf-wg 14:58:54 logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-rdf-wg-irc 14:59:05 Zakim, this will be RDF 14:59:05 ok, davidwood, I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM already started 14:59:14 +Sandro 14:59:16 +OpenLink_Software 14:59:18 Chair: Guus 14:59:39 trackbot, start meeting 14:59:42 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:59:44 Zakim, this will be 73394 14:59:44 ok, trackbot; I see SW_RDFWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute 14:59:45 Meeting: RDF Working Group Teleconference 14:59:45 Date: 27 March 2013 15:00:54 pfps has joined #rdf-wg 15:02:12 Zakim, who's here? 15:02:12 I notice SW_RDFWG()11:00AM has restarted 15:02:13 On the phone I see bhyland, Sandro, OpenLink_Software, [IPcaller], pfps, [GVoice], [IPcaller.a] 15:02:13 On IRC I see pfps, RRSAgent, Zakim, tbaker, AndyS, TallTed, ivan, gavinc, gkellogg, Arnaud, manu, davidwood, mischat, manu1, yvesr, sandro, ericP, trackbot 15:02:22 Zakim, [GVoice] is me 15:02:22 +ericP; got it 15:02:33 Guus has joined #rdf-wg 15:02:42 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:02:42 On the phone I see bhyland, Sandro, OpenLink_Software, [IPcaller], pfps, ericP, [IPcaller.a] 15:02:42 zakim, who is here? 15:02:45 On the phone I see bhyland, Sandro, OpenLink_Software, [IPcaller], pfps, ericP, [IPcaller.a] 15:02:45 On IRC I see Guus, pfps, RRSAgent, Zakim, tbaker, AndyS, TallTed, ivan, gavinc, gkellogg, Arnaud, manu, davidwood, mischat, manu1, yvesr, sandro, ericP, trackbot 15:02:59 markus has joined #rdf-wg 15:03:00 zakim, IPcaller.a is me 15:03:00 +AndyS; got it 15:03:07 zakim, [IPcaller.a] is Guus 15:03:07 sorry, Guus, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller.a]' 15:03:18 -AndyS 15:03:20 zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me 15:03:21 sorry, Guus, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller.a]' 15:03:38 zakim, IPcaller.a is Guus 15:03:38 sorry, tbaker, I do not recognize a party named 'IPcaller.a' 15:03:42 zakim, who is on the phone 15:03:43 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', AndyS 15:03:50 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:03:50 On the phone I see bhyland, Sandro, OpenLink_Software, [IPcaller], pfps, ericP 15:03:58 +??P0 15:04:01 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:04:01 On the phone I see bhyland, Sandro, OpenLink_Software, [IPcaller], pfps, ericP, ??P0 15:04:06 zakim, IPcaller is Guus 15:04:06 +Guus; got it 15:04:11 Zakim, bhyland is me 15:04:11 +davidwood; got it 15:04:12 zakim, ??P0 is me 15:04:13 +AndyS; got it 15:04:17 zakim, code? 15:04:17 the conference code is 73394 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan 15:04:37 +Ivan 15:04:48 scribe? 15:04:51 zakim, mute me 15:04:51 Ivan should now be muted 15:05:08 zakim, who is here? 15:05:08 On the phone I see davidwood, Sandro, OpenLink_Software, Guus, pfps, ericP, AndyS, Ivan (muted) 15:05:10 On IRC I see markus, Guus, pfps, RRSAgent, Zakim, tbaker, AndyS, TallTed, ivan, gavinc, gkellogg, Arnaud, manu, davidwood, mischat, manu1, yvesr, sandro, ericP, trackbot 15:05:10 +??P6 15:05:13 +??P8 15:05:20 zakim, ??P6 is me 15:05:20 +markus; got it 15:05:57 +Arnaud 15:06:05 Zakim, who is noisy? 15:06:16 davidwood, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: AndyS (23%), OpenLink_Software (6%), ericP (20%) 15:06:23 scribe: Arnaud 15:06:31 Will redial (I'm muted) 15:06:35 -AndyS 15:06:53 manu1 has left #rdf-wg 15:07:02 +GavinC 15:07:03 +[IPcaller] 15:07:07 topic: Admin 15:07:11 zakim, IPcaller is me 15:07:11 +AndyS; got it 15:07:13 manu1 has joined #rdf-wg 15:08:05 zakim, who is noisy? 15:08:05 subtopic: Accepting minutes of last meeting March 20 15:08:05 minutes are fine 15:08:05 guus: any objections? 15:08:05 AZ has joined #rdf-wg 15:08:05 resolved: minutes of March 20 accepted 15:08:09 AndyS, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: OpenLink_Software (32%), Guus (68%) 15:08:17 q+ 15:08:21 subtopic: Review of action items 15:08:22 q- 15:08:32 q+ to ask that JSON-LD be moved to the beginning of the Agenda. 15:08:34 guus: anyone wants to declare victory? 15:08:40 Zakim, mute me 15:08:40 sorry, TallTed, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you 15:08:42 ... none, moving on 15:08:50 Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 15:08:51 +TallTed; got it 15:08:51 Zakim, mute me 15:08:51 TallTed should now be muted 15:09:03 topic: Progress FPWD requests 15:09:29 guus: need to agree on proposed shortnames 15:09:38 http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Request-FPWD-Semantics-TriG-NTriples-Nquads 15:09:40 Zakim, please dial ericP-mobile 15:09:40 ok, ericP; the call is being made 15:09:41 +EricP 15:09:43 +1 to short names 15:09:45 -ericP 15:09:59 yes 15:10:04 Yes 15:10:07 yes 15:10:20 +1 15:10:23 +??P22 15:10:26 sandro: hyphens in both shortnames and mediatypes? 15:10:32 gavinc: yes 15:10:44 Zakim, ??P22 is me 15:10:44 +AZ; got it 15:11:18 guus: would like gavinc to add to the wiki on n-quads 15:11:25 q? 15:11:26 gavinc: not sure there is much to add 15:12:43 +MHausenblas 15:12:54 cygri has joined #rdf-wg 15:13:27 guus and gavinc talk about STOD and abstract sections 15:14:15 discussion on cvs access 15:16:52 talks about requirements for FPWD 15:17:52 manu: would like to talk about JSON-LD before Turtle 15:18:28 topic: Turtle 15:18:35 guus: status? 15:18:44 q- 15:18:44 -> http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments Disp of CR Comments 15:18:59 guus: let's start with the status of the test suite 15:19:54 ericp: working on issues that need to be closed to be done with test suite 15:20:51 ... issues mostly around definition of the base when running a test 15:21:23 ... saw pushback on description of the algorithm 15:21:38 q? 15:21:39 sandro: why not let them use the location they ask for? 15:22:18 ericp: will need to move stuff out of mercurial into www space 15:22:49 ... that will set the base to the directory it is put in 15:23:03 ericP, yes, once there are two LICENSE files that comply with the http://www.w3.org/Consortium/Legal/2008/04-testsuite-copyright.html 15:23:13 sandro: wants to make sure the base isn't hardcoded 15:23:23 We should TAG the test suite after we agree we're done 15:23:44 +q 15:23:55 ack gavinc 15:24:09 gavinc: think we should tag the repository when we think we are done 15:24:29 ... and state what license applies 15:24:31 -Guus 15:24:41 ... believe andy was fine with that 15:24:55 can we have a publication request for test suite on the table? 15:25:00 ericp: gavinc can you ask that all contributors are ok with that? 15:25:00 Andy is fine - when text ready I'll change the copy in hg 15:25:06 gavinc: ok 15:25:48 ericp: presume we are going to tell the world in April we're not going to change it anymore 15:26:02 +??P20 15:26:26 ericp: there were several comments we will decline, like normalization of bnodes 15:26:26 zakim, ??P20 is me 15:26:26 +Guus; got it 15:26:46 proposal to publish? 15:27:09 ... another one was about ordering of triples 15:27:09 +q question for team... is http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/testgrants-200409/ the required grant for the test cases still? 15:27:22 +q to ask a question for team... is http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/testgrants-200409/ the required grant for the test cases still? 15:27:27 -q question 15:27:35 guus: apart from the location, is there any other issues stopping us from publishing? 15:28:32 ericp: one issue is about whether we test what is outside of NFC 15:28:54 andy: ??? 15:29:33 ericp: suggest the answer is no 15:29:53 guus: can we have a proposal to publish? 15:29:55 AndyS: Test good practice and not do worry about non-NFC : tests are often examples as well conformance 15:30:17 ... would like a link and a proposal 15:30:42 gavinc: it's not been tagged yet so we don't have a URL to share 15:31:44 PROPOSED: 15:31:49 guus: this has been lingering for weeks 15:32:29 gavinc: we have 2 contributors who are not members of the WG 15:32:33 no idea:-( 15:32:33 "If the Contribution is to be published by a Group in a Recommendation Track document governed by the W3C Patent Policy, all parties must agree to the W3C Patent Policy License Requirements. Participants agreed to these Requirements by joining the group. Non-participants must agree to these Requirements either by joining the Group (if eligible) or by agreeing to the terms of Grant I." 15:33:02 ... confident they will agree to the license but we need to make sure that's the case 15:33:03 q+ 15:33:27 q- 15:33:30 -q 15:33:33 davidwood: I don't know what they have agreed to since they haven't joined the wG 15:33:37 q? 15:35:04 Topic: 15:35:04 guus: will move to json-ld and come back to turtle later 15:35:04 Topic: JSON-LD 15:35:04 My understanding is that RDF WG wanted to publish LCWDs for all JSON-LD REC-track 15:35:04 documents by end of March. 15:35:04 JSON-LD CG agreed to publish the JSON-LD Syntax and Algorithms specifications as 15:35:04 Final Community Group Specifications (FCGS) and prep the RDF WG Last Call (LC) 15:35:04 documents for publication on April 4th 2013. 15:35:04 The documents are available here: 15:35:04 JSON-LD 1.0 (LCWD) 15:35:04 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld-syntax/20130404/index.html 15:35:06 JSON-LD 1.0: Algorithms and API (LCWD) 15:35:07 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/spec/WD/json-ld-api/20130404/index.html 15:35:09 This group will need to decide whether or not they want to publish those 15:35:10 documents as Last Call WDs on April 4th 2013 with the caveat that the editors 15:35:12 will integrate decisions made on the JSON-LD call yesterday, fix pubrule 15:35:13 issues, as well as make any editorial changes requested by RDF WG before 15:35:15 April 4th 2013. 15:36:27 manu explains what the status is from his understanding and asks whether they have to create WDs or what 15:36:48 ... does anybody disagree with taking these two docs to last call? 15:36:52 q+ 15:37:00 sandro: would expect the decision to be taken in a week from now 15:37:01 q- (Sandro made my point) 15:37:05 q- 15:37:26 davidwood: agree with sandro, review is done in a week 15:37:40 s/done/due/ 15:37:44 sandro: haven't completed review of the syntax 15:38:12 manu: getting all review comments in the spec, editors think they have done that 15:38:27 ... but also some commenters haven't necessarily agreed with the disposition 15:38:56 guus: we can wait one or two week for LC 15:39:03 Comments now, better then 2nd LC 15:39:07 ... would prefer to have consensus on the comments 15:39:17 davidwood: won 15:39:26 't reach consensus though 15:39:30 No, thus the need for a grant ;) 15:39:49 manu: other thing is if we get another set of comments from sandro, this may push us back for months 15:39:57 We will need to respond to all commenters, but may not agree 15:39:59 s/months/a month/ 15:40:00 ... want to make sure WG is aware 15:40:10 guus: always a possibility, we'll have to deal with it 15:40:38 manu: if sandro can respond to comments and I'll respond to David Booth comments 15:40:57 guus: in two weeks is fine, if ready in a week it's better 15:41:56 sandro: json-ld.org lists some implementations, we should have that on the w3c website 15:42:06 ... C. Relationship to RDF isn't normative? 15:42:13 manu: all of json-ld mercurial is on w3c website 15:42:17 It has MUSTs 15:42:23 and refers to JSON-LD-API 15:42:23 sandro: can you browse it? 15:42:28 manu: no 15:42:29 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/json-ld/raw-file/default/index.html 15:42:55 ... but if you go to the link markus just pasted you can get to it 15:43:11 ... it's on the w3c website 15:43:20 sandro: a bit confusing, not sure this is enough 15:43:32 ... communication is important 15:43:44 manu: also have a link in the spec 15:44:06 ... it's on the json-ld website though 15:44:37 sandro: really should have a link to a www.w3.org page 15:45:06 ... test suite results should also be there 15:45:15 manu: still working on that 15:45:41 q? 15:45:41 Turtle's reports are in dvcs 15:45:44 no one complained yet 15:46:00 topic: Turtle (back) 15:46:09 zakim, who is here? 15:46:09 On the phone I see davidwood, Sandro, TallTed (muted), pfps, Ivan (muted), markus, ??P8, Arnaud, GavinC, AndyS, EricP, AZ, MHausenblas, Guus 15:46:12 On IRC I see cygri, AZ, manu1, markus, Guus, pfps, RRSAgent, Zakim, tbaker, AndyS, TallTed, ivan, gavinc, gkellogg, Arnaud, manu, davidwood, mischat, yvesr, sandro, ericP, trackbot 15:46:14 ericp: got some proposal 15:46:21 .PROPOSED: accept tests-ttl revision 1bd3ae36aebf as the presumed final Turtle test suite. 15:46:24 .ACTION: Gavin to provide license text, asking submitters of comments 21 and 28 if they are willing to share their submitted tests with no IP restrictions and under the proposed license. 15:46:28 .ACTION Gavin to tag 1bd3ae36aebf as "TurtleCRtests2013" 15:46:31 .ACTION ericP (with Sandro) to copy or proxy TurtleCRtests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleCRtests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/TurtleCRtests/ 15:46:57 -??P8 15:47:21 q? 15:47:21 q+ to ask who has passed this test suite 15:47:24 .ACTION AndyS Update license statement on contributed files. 15:47:34 .ACTION AndyS Update license statement on his contributed files. 15:48:18 AndyS, magic text is: Distributed under both the W3C Test Suite License and the W3C 3-clause BSD License. To contribute to a W3C Test Suite, see the policies and contribution forms. 15:48:26 So non-NFC in test suite? 15:48:38 guus: exactly the proposal I was asking for, any concerns? 15:49:19 -1 on putting "CR" in the base 15:49:24 ericp: want to remove the non NFC test suite 15:49:32 4 tests cause non_NFC warning (but I pass the test - it's a warning) 15:49:35 sandro: who has passed all these tests? 15:49:39 gavinc: greg 15:50:27 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/file/8aacaffa3c52/rdf-turtle/reports 15:51:01 .ACTION: ericP to remove #localName_with_PN_CHARS_BASE_character_boundaries 15:51:12 sandro: don't agree on CR in the base, this test suite isn't just for CR it will remain for the Rec 15:51:41 ericp: I think only greg and myself have run those tests 15:52:02 ... but anybody who've run them before should pass these 15:52:23 https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/rdf/rev/6e2055fe64f0 15:52:38 guus: sandro, is that enough? 15:52:48 sandro: if that is true, then yes 15:53:05 Jena passes with 34 warnings. 15:53:06 q+ 15:53:12 gavinc: having a single manifest was done on people's request, they shouldn't have a problem with it 15:53:29 ack sandro 15:53:29 sandro, you wanted to ask who has passed this test suite 15:53:35 sandro: ok approving it now and see if there are any complaints 15:53:38 ack AndyS 15:54:09 sandro: I guess I'm okay with approving these tests on Eric and Greg's reports of having passed all of them, provisionally, to see if anyone else complains. 15:54:21 andy: can we really still pretend people who passed the tests before pass the new ones? 15:54:54 gavinc: people were confused about where the tests were 15:55:03 +1 gavin: let's make the cleaned up test suite clearly available for people to try 15:55:16 ericp: don't agree, comments indicate people know 15:55:41 guus: given all the editorial actions that have been listed, can we approve the proposal? 15:56:15 ACTION: Gavin to provide license text, asking submitters of comments 21 and 28 if they are willing to share their submitted tests with no IP restrictions and under the proposed license. 15:56:15 Created ACTION-243 - Provide license text, asking submitters of comments 21 and 28 if they are willing to share their submitted tests with no IP restrictions and under the proposed license. [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-04-03]. 15:56:15 ... eric can you put the proposal back with the updated URI 15:56:19 ACTION Gavin to tag 1bd3ae36aebf as "Turtletests2013" 15:56:19 Created ACTION-244 - Tag 1bd3ae36aebf as "Turtletests2013" [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-04-03]. 15:56:21 ACTION ericP (with Sandro) to copy or proxy Turtletests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/ 15:56:21 Created ACTION-245 - (with Sandro) to copy or proxy Turtletests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/ [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2013-04-03]. 15:56:25 ACTION: ericP to remove #localName_with_PN_CHARS_BASE_character_boundaries 15:56:25 Created ACTION-246 - Remove #localName_with_PN_CHARS_BASE_character_boundaries [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2013-04-03]. 15:56:34 eric creating the actions first 15:57:22 ACTION: Gavin to tag 1bd3ae36aebf as "Turtletests2013" 15:57:22 ACTION: ericP (with Sandro) to copy or proxy Turtletests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/ 15:57:22 Created ACTION-247 - Tag 1bd3ae36aebf as "Turtletests2013" [on Gavin Carothers - due 2013-04-03]. 15:57:22 Created ACTION-248 - (with Sandro) to copy or proxy Turtletests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/ [on Eric Prud'hommeaux - due 2013-04-03]. 15:57:34 PROPOSED: accept tests-ttl revision 1bd3ae36aebf as the presumed final Turtle test suite. 15:57:55 So we're going with some UNASSIGNED_UNICODE_CHARACTER in PATH depending in Unicode version? 15:58:41 ericp: I believe yes 15:58:53 +1 assuming the licenses are added, and with the understanding that we can undo this if people don't like the tests 15:59:23 +1 15:59:43 +1 15:59:45 +1 15:59:45 +1 15:59:51 +1 15:59:52 +1 15:59:53 +? 15:59:56 1 16:00:27 resolved: accept tests-ttl revision 1bd3ae36aebf as the presumed final Turtle test suite. 16:00:46 where is the table or turtle test results, gkellogg ? 16:00:48 -(i)^2 16:01:20 guus: aob? 16:01:30 guus: meeting adjourned! 16:01:33 -Sandro 16:01:35 -Ivan 16:01:43 -Arnaud 16:01:45 -AZ 16:01:45 eric, pfps 16:01:53 -davidwood 16:01:57 http://www.w3.org/2011/rdf-wg/wiki/Turtle_Candidate_Recommendation_Comments#Issues 16:01:58 bye 16:02:04 -markus 16:02:13 -AndyS 16:02:36 I think guus was asking for followup on the write-access to hg/cvs/whatever 16:02:41 -MHausenblas 16:02:46 peter, who promised to help? 16:03:15 someone said that they would help, but I'm not sure who 16:03:48 ppatelsc 16:03:53 trackbot, end meeting 16:03:53 Zakim, list attendees 16:03:53 As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, pfps, ericP, AndyS, Guus, davidwood, Ivan, markus, Arnaud, GavinC, TallTed, AZ, MHausenblas 16:03:58 ppatelsc pfpschneider@gmail.com 16:04:01 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:04:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-rdf-wg-minutes.html trackbot 16:04:02 RRSAgent, bye 16:04:02 I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-rdf-wg-actions.rdf : 16:04:02 ACTION: Gavin to provide license text, asking submitters of comments 21 and 28 if they are willing to share their submitted tests with no IP restrictions and under the proposed license. [1] 16:04:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-rdf-wg-irc#T15-56-15 16:04:02 ACTION: ericP to remove #localName_with_PN_CHARS_BASE_character_boundaries [2] 16:04:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-rdf-wg-irc#T15-56-25 16:04:02 ACTION: Gavin to tag 1bd3ae36aebf as "Turtletests2013" [3] 16:04:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-rdf-wg-irc#T15-57-22 16:04:02 ACTION: ericP (with Sandro) to copy or proxy Turtletests2013 to http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/..., updating all base or ttl references to http://example/base/ to be http://www.w3.org/2013/Turtletests/ [4] 16:04:02 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-rdf-wg-irc#T15-57-22-1