14:48:15 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
14:48:15 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-forms-irc
14:48:17 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:48:17 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
14:48:19 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
14:48:19 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
14:48:20 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
14:48:20 <trackbot> Date: 27 March 2013
14:49:04 <Steven> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0022
14:49:06 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0022.html
14:49:13 <Steven> Regrets: Uli
14:49:16 <Steven> Chair: Steven
14:57:20 <pfennell> pfennell has joined #forms
14:59:57 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
15:00:05 <Zakim> +pfennell
15:02:31 <alain> alain has joined #forms
15:04:05 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek has joined #forms
15:04:21 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
15:04:21 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
15:05:22 <Zakim> + +1.323.425.aaaa
15:05:32 <nvdbleek> zakim, I am +1.323
15:05:33 <Zakim> +nvdbleek; got it
15:05:44 <Zakim> +??P10
15:05:50 <nvdbleek> zakim, who is here?
15:05:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfennell, nvdbleek, ??P10
15:05:51 <Zakim> On IRC I see nvdbleek, alain, pfennell, Zakim, RRSAgent, Steven, trackbot
15:05:52 <Steven> zakim, I am ?
15:05:54 <Zakim> +Steven; got it
15:06:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:06:59 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
15:07:00 <Steven> zakim, [ is alain
15:07:01 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
15:07:02 <Zakim> +alain; got it
15:07:08 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
15:08:11 <Zakim> +ebruchez
15:08:42 <Steven> zakim, who is on the call?
15:08:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see pfennell, nvdbleek, Steven, alain, ebruchez
15:10:19 <nvdbleek> Topic: Action item review
15:10:20 <nvdbleek> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/
15:10:34 <nvdbleek> Steven: Some people have a lot of them
15:10:49 <nvdbleek> Steven: A lot of mine were items I never closed
15:11:21 <nvdbleek> Steven: There are 2 large ones that are still on my radar, will do them when we come closer to publication
15:11:39 <nvdbleek> Steven: pfennell you have a couple, can you close the ones that are done?
15:11:47 <nvdbleek> pfennell: Will do
15:12:02 <nvdbleek> Steven: alain can you go over your list?
15:12:26 <nvdbleek> alain: I can't list my action items
15:12:48 <nvdbleek> alain: authorisation is rejected
15:13:06 <nvdbleek> Steven: Nick you have some
15:13:16 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: planning to do some this week
15:13:23 <nvdbleek> Topic: [ACTION-1934] Completed (Update the XML and relax-ng schema (change mediatype to accept on upload))
15:13:24 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0013.html
15:13:44 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: I will do this one this week
15:13:53 <nvdbleek> Topic: The function Element
15:13:54 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0018.html
15:13:55 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0019.html
15:13:56 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0028.html
15:14:55 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We wanted to have the element, Uli proposed to drop it, I was not sure. Now I'm in favour of keeping it
15:15:15 <nvdbleek> discussing http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0018.html
15:15:56 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: The main problem I have is the heavy syntax
15:16:53 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: If we only have the lighter weight syntax then we loose variable support when using XPath as expr. lang, so I'm proposing of supporting both the lighter and the heavier syntax
15:17:15 <nvdbleek> Leight weight:
15:17:19 <nvdbleek> <function signature="my:sumproduct($p as xs:decimal*, $q as
15:17:20 <nvdbleek> xs:decimal*) as xs:decimal">
15:17:21 <nvdbleek>         sum(for $i in 1 to count($p) return $p[$i]*$q[$i])
15:17:21 <nvdbleek>     </function>
15:17:30 <nvdbleek> s/Leight/Light/
15:17:39 <nvdbleek> Full syntax:
15:18:06 <nvdbleek> <function signature="my:sumproduct($p as xs:decimal*, $q as
15:18:06 <nvdbleek> xs:decimal*) as xs:decimal">
15:18:07 <nvdbleek>         <result value="sum(for $i in 1 to count($p) return $p[$i]*$q[$i])"/>
15:18:08 <nvdbleek>     </function>
15:18:13 <nvdbleek> With variables:
15:18:19 <nvdbleek> <function signature="my:foo($p as xs:decimal*) as xs:decimal" override="no">
15:18:19 <nvdbleek>         <var name="v1" value="$p[1]"/
15:18:21 <nvdbleek>         <var name="v2" value="$p[2]"/
15:18:22 <nvdbleek>         <result value="$v1 + $v2"/>
15:18:22 <nvdbleek>     </function>
15:18:44 <nvdbleek> You can also specify the language of the function:
15:18:46 <nvdbleek> <function signature="my:foo($p as xs:decimal*) as xs:decimal"
15:18:46 <nvdbleek> override="no" type="text/javascript">
15:18:47 <nvdbleek>         foo(XForms.var.p);
15:18:48 <nvdbleek>     </function>
15:19:35 <ebruchez> <function><result>expression</result></functin>
15:20:08 <ebruchez> s/functin/function
15:20:27 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: if you have a bigger expression in text would look nicer then in an attribute
15:21:39 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: For consistency I think we should keep it as an attribute
15:23:35 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: for the expression the function in the lightweight syntax it is text content, that looks nicer
15:23:43 <ebruchez> <function><var/><var/><result>very large expression</result></function>
15:23:54 <nvdbleek> Steven: Are we all happy with it?
15:23:58 <nvdbleek> alain: Yes
15:24:00 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: yes
15:24:16 <nvdbleek> Steven: We need some text
15:24:48 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: It are only minor changes to spec
15:25:26 <nvdbleek> RESOLUTION: We will go with the lightweight syntax for the function element
15:26:20 <nvdbleek> s/lightweight syntax/lightweight and heavier syntax/
15:26:58 <nvdbleek> ACTION: nvdbleek incorporate Erik's proposal about a lighter weight syntax for the function element
15:26:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1940 - Incorporate Erik's proposal about a lighter weight syntax for the function element [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2013-04-03].
15:27:20 <nvdbleek> Topic: ACTION-1932 - Suggest text spec for target keywords referring to host language
15:27:20 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0020.html
15:28:11 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: It is about submitting to another window
15:29:13 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: The target attribute is basically the HTML target attribute
15:29:22 <ebruchez> http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/multipage/browsers.html#valid-browsing-context-name-or-keyword
15:29:23 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: the value is a bit funny
15:30:16 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: so the target works well when the host language is HTML
15:31:36 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: for other host languages we don't want to do the same thing
15:31:40 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: So I made the values host-language and implementation dependent, recommending the HTML values when the host language is HTML
15:32:19 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: the question arises what to do with the show attribute because it does similar things, but target does more
15:35:04 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: If both are specified and the implementation supports the target attribute the target attribute will win, so the show attribute is more 'reliable' to use across implementations
15:35:04 <nvdbleek> Steven: Erik can you ask Michaeals feedback
15:35:04 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: it is a bit annoying to have two attributes doing the same thing, I'm not happy with this
15:35:04 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We could deprecate the show attribute, and mandate that the target attribute supports _blank and _self
15:35:45 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: the only problem is that I think we shouldn't specify the complete value space for all platforms
15:36:14 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: I also noted that the load element was referencing Xlink quite a bit...
15:36:46 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: I don't think a lot of people would mind if we are in line with Xlink or not
15:37:31 <nvdbleek> Steven: you could have show="replace" and target="self"
15:37:49 <nvdbleek> s/self/_self/
15:38:14 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: those are the default, so I don't think you use them a lot
15:39:22 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: In our implementation we just forward the target attribute to the browser, which handles it
15:40:14 <nvdbleek> Steven: currently we are very neutral about the host language
15:40:35 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: the values for target are ugly
15:41:59 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: I don't have a strong opinion about it, but I think we should support the target attributes if you are using HTML as a host language
15:42:38 <nvdbleek> Steven: another option would be show="target" and in that case you should use the target attribute to specify the target
15:43:30 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: this makes it a bit more complicated, because you should always write both the show and target attribute
15:44:00 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: we could make the default value of show target if you specify a target attribute
15:44:22 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: on submission you don't have a show attribute, only a target attribute
15:45:04 <Steven> So with submission we would have replace="all" target="mytab"
15:47:12 <Steven> So consistent would be load show="replace" target="mytab"
15:47:57 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: there is no clash with other attributes on submission
15:48:36 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: replace is the default for show on load
15:48:55 <ebruchez> show="replace" target="_blank"
15:49:38 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: when you do show="replace" target="_blank" will not replace the form but will open an new window
15:50:01 <nvdbleek> Steven: I don't see that as a big problem
15:51:56 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: We need to be sure then that we don't imply that the xforms processor is shut down you do a submission with replace all, because when you have a different target the form will keep running
15:55:05 <nvdbleek> http://www.w3.org/MarkUp/Forms/wiki/index.php?title=XForms_2.0#Processing_the_Response_from_a_Submission
15:55:17 <nvdbleek> all: the event xforms-submit-done may be dispatched with appropriate context information, and submit processing concludes with the entire containing document being replaced with the returned body.
15:55:28 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: This is not correct
15:55:47 <Steven> It depends on the meaning of "containing document"
15:56:07 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: The xforms spec uses different wording
15:56:22 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: html uses a browsing context
15:56:48 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: xforms uses 'presentation context'
15:56:51 <ebruchez> HTML: "browsing context"
15:56:58 <ebruchez> XForms: "presentation context" (load action)
15:57:13 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: the submission uses document
15:59:34 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: the desired behaviour is clear it will replace the 'presentation context'/'document' of the target
15:59:58 <Zakim> -pfennell
15:59:59 <Zakim> -ebruchez
15:59:59 <Zakim> -Steven
16:00:00 <Zakim> -alain
16:00:05 <alain> alain has left #forms
16:00:07 <nvdbleek> Steven: We might need to tweak the wording a bit, but the direction is good
16:00:10 <Zakim> -nvdbleek
16:00:11 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has ended
16:00:11 <Zakim> Attendees were pfennell, +1.323.425.aaaa, nvdbleek, Steven, [IPcaller], alain, ebruchez
16:00:23 <Steven> trackbot, end call
16:00:23 <trackbot> Sorry, Steven, I don't understand 'trackbot, end call'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
16:00:30 <Steven> trackbot, end telcon
16:00:30 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:00:31 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:00:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:00:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-forms-minutes.html trackbot
16:00:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:00:39 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-forms-actions.rdf :
16:00:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: nvdbleek incorporate Erik's proposal about a lighter weight syntax for the function element [1]
16:00:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/27-forms-irc#T15-26-58