21:03:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
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21:03:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
21:03:14 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
21:03:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
21:03:16 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG(SVG1)4:00PM already started
21:03:17 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
21:03:17 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2013
21:03:46 <hober> hober has joined #svg
21:03:52 <dino> zakim, passcode
21:03:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'passcode', dino
21:03:57 <dino> zakim, passcode?
21:03:57 <Zakim> the conference code is 7841 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dino
21:04:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:04:09 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
21:04:09 <Zakim> +ed; got it
21:04:12 <Zakim> +cabanier
21:04:15 <Zakim> +[Apple]
21:04:16 <hober> Zakim, Apple has me
21:04:16 <Zakim> +hober; got it
21:04:18 <hober> Zakim, Apple has smfr
21:04:18 <Zakim> +smfr; got it
21:04:20 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
21:04:28 <dino> zakim, [IP is me
21:04:28 <Zakim> +dino; got it
21:04:43 <smfr> agenda?
21:04:47 <ed> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0064.html
21:04:54 <smfr> smfr has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0064.html
21:05:03 <ed> chair: ed
21:05:38 <krit> zakim,Oliver_Goldman is me
21:05:38 <Zakim> +krit; got it
21:05:52 <hober> Zakim, Apple has smfr, hober
21:05:52 <Zakim> smfr was already listed in [Apple], hober
21:05:54 <Zakim> +hober; got it
21:06:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Rich
21:06:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: skip over publication status
21:06:31 <dino> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/matrix/index.html
21:06:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Transformation Proposal
21:06:51 <krit> s/tip/default/
21:07:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
21:07:20 <Zakim> + +33.9.53.77.aaaa
21:07:41 <Tav> zakim, +33 is me
21:07:41 <Zakim> +Tav; got it
21:07:47 <Zakim> + +61.2.980.5.aabb
21:07:56 <nikos> Zakim +61.2.9 is me
21:08:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: at the last face to face we though it would be a go change to create a new svg matrix that is integral with other specifications so that could be used with canvas
21:08:07 <nikos> Zakim, +61.2.9 is me
21:08:07 <Zakim> +nikos; got it
21:08:20 <krit> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/tip/matrix/index.html
21:08:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: they thought it was good and to evolve over time
21:08:25 <krit> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/default/matrix/index.html#webidl-ref
21:08:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> the interface is  quite similar to the interface proposed by D Jackson
21:09:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: I made more compatible with SVG matrix. It has a 2 dimensional scale. it scales to the x and y axis
21:10:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: there is one more change. for svg matrix  for 2d compatibility
21:10:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: just 2d instead of 3d
21:10:45 <dino> the change was rotate() to be compatible with SVG, so is only 2d
21:10:56 <dino> but 3d is covered by rotateAxisAngle
21:11:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> dino: maybe you should take vector x, y, z
21:11:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: just the x and y
21:11:43 <dino> s/dino/smfr/
21:11:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> thanks
21:12:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> smfr/we did not have skew z
21:12:11 <dino> smfr: suggest renaming to rotate(double angle, optional double originX, ...)
21:12:45 <dino> smfr: the fact that x,y is origin should be clear, and that the x,y,z from rotateAxisAngle is a vector
21:13:07 <krit> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/default/matrix/index.html#the-constructors
21:13:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> smfr: I would like to ask the same question as David Baron. Can they take a string and slam into a transform attribute
21:13:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: yes. takes a DOM String and does a CSS transform
21:15:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> Kitt: if you have an element get the transform out of it. … the pixel would not be the same.
21:15:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> smfr: maybe this text needs some non-normative examples. The spec. is isolated right now
21:15:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: the specification can reference it.
21:16:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: i happy to put more informative text in it
21:16:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: examples like this one with a constructor with dom strings in it and the transforms.
21:17:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> smfr: when you are inputing a string where it the text for the conversion into the matrix
21:17:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: that is why issue 3 is there
21:17:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> … I think it is ok to put an example in
21:17:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: if we keep it I will extend the example
21:18:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: for SVG it might be a problem because SVG 1 is already a recommendation
21:18:24 <krit> s/might/might not/
21:18:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: if you translate 2020 to 20px
21:19:10 <krit> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/default/matrix/index.html#widl-Matrix-translate-Matrix-double-tx-double-ty-double-tz
21:19:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> … trying to learn the voices
21:19:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> :-)
21:19:18 <ed>  Constructor (DOMString transformList),
21:19:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: this takes double
21:19:35 <ed> new Matrix("translate(20,20)") something liek that
21:19:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: yeah that works. you don't have units for the pixel
21:20:46 <hober>  /query smfr
21:20:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: one for presentation and one for CSS presentation attributes. We can't say we have a relaxed syntax for the DOM string as well.
21:21:03 <hober> s| /query smfr||
21:21:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: we have 2 different syntaxes at the moment - one relaxed and one strict
21:21:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> smfr: we can decide what people want?
21:22:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: I don't see why the CSS wg would object to that.
21:22:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: do we public this?
21:23:04 <ed> s/public/publish/
21:23:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: yes
21:24:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: SVG wants to publish the spec as a first public working draft
21:24:51 <ed> s/the spec/Transformation matrix interface spec/
21:25:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> Ken: why don't we ask to publish it as a first public working draft?
21:25:52 <dino> s/Ken/Dean/
21:25:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> thanks
21:26:13 <ed> s/SVG/SVG WG/
21:27:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Krit mail the spec. to the effects list and have David Barron review.
21:27:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3470 - Mail the spec. to the effects list and have David Barron review. [on Dirk Schulze - due 2013-03-14].
21:28:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-transforms/
21:29:06 <ed> topic: SVG2 publication status
21:29:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: I will reference HTML5 vs. the working draft
21:29:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: put an action on me to make that happen
21:30:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: I will contact the appropriate people to make it publish
21:30:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> smfr: Any idea why my changes would not result in a notification?
21:31:15 <smfr> s/smfr/cameron
21:31:27 <ed> ACTION: erik to follow up on getting the SVG2 WD published, run linkchecker etc
21:31:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3471 - Follow up on getting the SVG2 WD published, run linkchecker etc [on Erik Dahlström - due 2013-03-14].
21:31:35 <krit> s/cameron/nikos/
21:31:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: Can I touch the spec. since you are taking it to public working draft
21:32:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: can we reference a specific version in Mercurial?
21:32:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: wait until we get this published
21:33:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> smfr: we should highlight the changes since the last working draft
21:33:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik:
21:33:34 <smfr> s/smfr/nikos
21:33:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Pseudo stacking context for 2D transformations
21:34:23 <nikos> s/we should highlight the changes since the last working draft/Once publication has happened, we will need to remove highlighting for changes since last WD 1, in preparation for editing for WD 2
21:34:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> smfr: do not address to day and leave on mailing list
21:34:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: OK
21:34:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Masking
21:34:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: all masks are clipped at the moment
21:35:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: I would like to ask if we could skip this binding and use the bounding box. … an unbound mask
21:36:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> Krit: only place - filters are bound.
21:36:27 <krit> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/default/masking/index.html#MaskElementXAttribute
21:36:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> smfr: I don't have any problems with masks being unbounded.
21:37:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: the default value matching is 10%
21:37:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: ah ok
21:38:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> smrf: I think this important in HTML where you may be masking and the content overflows and you don't want the content to get clipped by the mask
21:38:12 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: the clipping could effect the content
21:38:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: to me it sounds better to use the unbounded one but I guess that is something to look at to see how much content is effected
21:38:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: guess not that much
21:39:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: how do we get data as to whether content is effected in a negative way.
21:39:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: this does not effect x, y with height.
21:39:34 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: yes
21:40:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: I guess one way to look at it would be see what authoring tools output.
21:40:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: I don't think there is going to be much of a problem
21:40:54 <ed> s/effect/affect explictly set/
21:40:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: do we want to get to a resolution or delay that
21:41:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: I think it would be fine to have the spec. allow it and deal with any concerns at the next draft
21:41:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: next version should be the last call
21:42:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: do you see any problem along that or the other way around
21:42:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: there is the property called mask .. maskclip
21:43:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: I don't have a strong opinion
21:43:31 <krit> s/maskclip/maskclip but this does not apply to the mask element/
21:43:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: any objections to having unbounded masks?
21:44:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: allow unbounded masks and see what we get back from last call
21:45:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: CSS X, y, and height . Is it ok that we don't reference it in this specification?
21:45:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: I think that is probably fine
21:45:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: so at the moment there is nothing to reference
21:46:10 <krit> s/reference it/specify them in SVG2 and not /
21:46:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Filter Effects
21:46:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> @support rule for filter effects extension
21:46:31 <richardschwerdtfeger>        https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/FXTF/raw-file/default/filters/index.html#support-condition-filter
21:46:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: I put this on the mailing list
21:47:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: Ok so follow up with the discussion on the mailing list
21:47:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Make filter regions unbound
21:48:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: the only problems as we have some filter effects that produce infinite boundaries
21:48:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: things like lighting filters or inputs could be effected
21:49:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: this filter has a drop shadow
21:49:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: we still have the 10% margin and everything outside gets clipped awayu
21:50:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: I agree this problem has been up for discussion a number of times
21:50:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: for example just be as big as ever
21:51:27 <ed> s/for example just be as big as ever/for example feFlood has unbounded output, so can just fill the viewport e.g/
21:51:41 <Zakim> -Tav
21:52:32 <Zakim> +Tav
21:52:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: there can be problems. I would write a proposal where there could be problems and with a solution for that. Is it worth it for me to do that or is it too difficult to be specified
21:52:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: we have some sort of unbound filter region already
21:53:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> erik: I think it would be much of a problem to run a similar filter on this
21:53:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> krit: can you and I work on that?
21:54:46 <ed> s/we have some sort of unbound filter region already/we have a sort of unbounded filter region already with filterUnits=userSpaceOnUse, requires impls to optimize otherwise perf is really bad/
21:54:52 <krit> ACTION: ed and krit to work together on an unbound filter proposal
21:54:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3472 - And krit to work together on an unbound filter proposal [on Erik Dahlström - due 2013-03-14].
21:55:06 <krit> ACTION: krit to work together on an unbound filter proposal
21:55:06 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3473 - Work together on an unbound filter proposal [on Dirk Schulze - due 2013-03-14].
21:55:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Publication of new WD
21:56:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> Erik: I don't have any problems with publishing a new working draft
21:57:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: would like to get tabindex out in a public working draft
21:57:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: never mind
21:57:17 <richardschwerdtfeger>  :-)
21:58:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: publish a new working draft of the filter effect spec.
21:59:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: krit create the public working draft
21:59:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3474 - Create the public working draft [on Dirk Schulze - due 2013-03-14].
21:59:52 <cabanier> scribenick: cabanier
22:00:02 <cabanier> topic: Referencing the HTML spec
22:00:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-svg-wg/2013JanMar/0055.html
22:00:23 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: I started working on tabindex
22:00:37 <cabanier> … we found a number of interesting points that we need to agree on
22:00:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> 1. Do you agree that the way event listeners are registered in SVG and HTML
22:00:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> should be the
22:00:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> same? -- both should support `element.addEventListener("click", ...)` and
22:00:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> `element.onclick = ...`.  (The latter needs some spec work still, but
22:00:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> implementations all support this.)
22:01:15 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: this discussion, should we follow the same scheme for eventl listener like html
22:01:23 <cabanier> … how are they registered in svg 1
22:01:27 <ed> rich, did you see my response here: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Feb/0061.html (please keep technical discussions on the www-svg list)
22:01:32 <cabanier> krit: it should not be different
22:01:40 <cabanier> ed: it should work the same, yes
22:01:45 <cabanier> … did you see my reply
22:01:54 <cabanier> … I responded to some of your points
22:02:01 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: I didn't see that
22:02:04 <Zakim> -[Apple]
22:02:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> 2. There are some inconsistencies between the events SVG defines to fire
22:02:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> > and those in HTML.  We need to be harmonizing these and
22:02:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> > should do it for SVG 2.
22:02:25 <cabanier> … number 2, there are inconsistencies. we have focus out in svg 2 but HTML has onblur
22:02:28 <smfr> smfr has left #svg
22:02:34 <cabanier> … should they be consistent or should there be a mapping
22:02:54 <cabanier> krit: onfocus is already used. can we have them in parallel or should we map them?
22:03:03 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: not sure.
22:03:15 <cabanier> ed: it should be possible to map them. they are different event
22:03:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> This is about SVG not having the focus and blur events, right? I think SVG
22:03:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> should have them. Feel free to add a complete list of the inconsistencies
22:03:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> you found.
22:03:27 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: since we're sharing the same dom, should we have the same events?
22:03:31 <Zakim> -dino
22:03:39 <cabanier> krit: so, if onfocus fires, onblur should fire too
22:03:45 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: yes.
22:04:00 <cabanier> … SVG didn't have keyboard focusable events
22:04:11 <cabanier> krit: blur is for mouse
22:04:16 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: we do have the anchor
22:04:22 <cabanier> … what do we want to do for that?
22:04:34 <cabanier> … should the spec say that they're the same
22:04:49 <cabanier> ed: they are 2 different events
22:05:06 <cabanier> … I don't see a problem with allowing both and then mapping them so old and new content
22:05:17 <cabanier> … one might fire after the other
22:05:20 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: OK
22:05:52 <cabanier> … so maybe only 1 event listener
22:06:06 <cabanier> ed: no, you can have listener for both events
22:06:18 <cabanier> … I'm not sure if they're connected right now but they could be
22:06:35 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: where would the event stop. would it go outside the svg container?
22:06:41 <cabanier> ed: with an iframe?
22:07:06 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: we have an svg doc in a html doc. the onblur in the svg is not processed. does it go up?
22:07:30 <cabanier> ed: if the svg is inline, yes, it should
22:07:47 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger:  …(?)
22:08:39 <cabanier> … if we have onfocus out and onblur and nothing captured them, only onblur would get out because onfocus is not recognized by the parent
22:08:59 <ed> not sure that's correct
22:09:24 <ed> events typically bubble regardless of the event type if they bubble
22:09:50 <cabanier> … the next one is: how do the document and window align between html and svg
22:10:09 <cabanier> … what if you have a reader that only supports SVG. how much of HTML do we have to implement?
22:10:19 <cabanier> … Cam, suggested the following text:
22:10:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> Cam suggested the following intorductory text:
22:10:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> >
22:10:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> >    Conforming SVG interpreters are not required to implement HTML;
22:10:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> >    however, some specific features of HTML are required to be
22:10:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> >    implemented.
22:10:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> >
22:10:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> > And then later in the spec:
22:10:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> >
22:10:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> >    A conforming SVG interpreter that does not also implement HTML
22:10:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> >    must implement the following IDL fragment:
22:10:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> >
22:10:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> >      partial interface Document {
22:10:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> >        readonly attribute Element? activeElement;
22:10:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> >      };
22:10:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> >
22:10:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> >    The activeElement attribute must have the same behavior as
22:10:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> >    described in HTML.  [with a link to HTML's definition of
22:10:50 <richardschwerdtfeger> >    activeElement]
22:10:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2013Feb/0061.html
22:11:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> Document element Interface: https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#InterfaceSVGDocument
22:11:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> DOM Document element Interface: http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-dom-20120405/#interface-document
22:11:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> HTML5 Document element Interface: http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/dom.html#the-document-object
22:11:52 <cabanier> krit:  is it part of the integration spec?
22:11:59 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: I posted 3 links
22:12:35 <cabanier> … we would say to add this text for SVG to the document object
22:12:52 <cabanier> … for SVG standalone, you'd have these properties
22:13:20 <cabanier> … does that make sense?
22:13:36 <cabanier> krit: I think I have an action on this
22:13:48 <cabanier> … we already relying on the document interface of HTML5
22:14:10 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: so, you're referring to the document object of htmk5
22:14:22 <cabanier> krit: yes. I have an action to add the link
22:14:36 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: you want this spec:
22:14:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/dom.html#the-document-object
22:14:47 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: that's the cr version
22:15:07 <cabanier> krit: ah. I think I have the wrong one then
22:15:32 <cabanier> … I'm using the partial interface
22:15:54 <cabanier> … HTML5 is relying on the definition of DOM (?)
22:16:22 <cabanier> … this is a problem. We have dom4 now
22:16:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/struct.html#InterfaceSVGDocument
22:16:36 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: this is the current spec
22:17:32 <cabanier> … I need the activeElement to be there
22:17:48 <cabanier> krit: If we say document is an HTMLDocument
22:18:01 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: we have other things in here
22:18:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> partial interface Document {
22:18:02 <richardschwerdtfeger>   readonly attribute DOMString title;
22:18:03 <richardschwerdtfeger>   readonly attribute DOMString referrer;
22:18:04 <richardschwerdtfeger>   readonly attribute DOMString domain;
22:18:05 <richardschwerdtfeger>   readonly attribute SVGSVGElement rootElement;
22:18:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> };
22:18:13 <cabanier> … this is what we currently have
22:18:24 <cabanier> … and we want to add activeElement
22:18:39 <cabanier> … and it's not in DOM4
22:18:47 <cabanier> krit: is it in html5?
22:19:07 <cabanier> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/CR/editing.html#dom-document-activeelement
22:19:18 <cabanier> who is editing dom4?
22:19:22 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: I don't know
22:19:29 <cabanier> krit: could you follow up?
22:19:55 <krit> s/up/up with Anne van Kesteren/ ?
22:20:07 <cabanier> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/domcore/raw-file/tip/Overview.html
22:20:37 <cabanier> krit: can you follow up with Anne and other?
22:20:47 <cabanier> … ms2ger is also good
22:21:08 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: for publishing, you might want to add the right link
22:21:18 <cabanier> … here it is:
22:22:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://www.w3.org/TR/dom/
22:22:31 <cabanier> … do we need title, referrer, domain in dom 4?
22:22:53 <cabanier> action: richardschwerdtfeger to ask HTML WG and Anne to add activeElement to their spec
22:22:53 <trackbot> Error finding 'richardschwerdtfeger'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/track/users>.
22:23:18 <cabanier> action: rich to ask HTML WG and Anne to add activeElement to their spec
22:23:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3475 - Ask HTML WG and Anne to add activeElement to their spec [on Richard Schwerdtfeger - due 2013-03-14].
22:24:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> 4. When HTML refers to tab navigation it indicates the elements that can
22:24:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> receive focus without using tabindex. Examples are command, input, and
22:24:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> anchor elements. Cam and I think this is fine if the UA does not implement
22:24:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> HTML and therefore won't be doing anything with <html:input> elements for
22:24:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> example, then it doesn't matter if they are focusable by default or not.
22:24:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> Yet, in terms of defining that <svg:a> is focusable by default, we might
22:24:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> need to get HTML to change there -- either by having a hook that we can
22:24:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> refer to from SVG to state that <svg:a> is focusable by default, or just by
22:24:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> HTML defining it so. Do people agree we should define this in HTML?
22:25:04 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: we might need to html to change their spec
22:25:55 <cabanier> ed: svg tiny already does define that elements are focusable
22:26:11 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: do you want to put that in our spec that certain elements are focusable?
22:26:20 <cabanier> ed: that would make more sense.
22:26:33 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: are there others that are focusable in tiny?
22:26:41 <cabanier> ed: yes, you could do it on any element.
22:26:47 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: we were using tabindex
22:27:03 <cabanier> ed: we can see if it can be made compatible
22:27:13 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: tabindex of −1 would change the tab order
22:27:26 <cabanier> … would this change the tab order?
22:27:32 <cabanier> ed: yes
22:27:49 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: so it's equivalent to tabindex 0
22:27:59 <cabanier> … so you think we should say something like that?
22:28:01 <cabanier> ed: yet
22:28:08 <cabanier> s/yet/yes
22:28:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: so focusable is equivalent to tabindex="0" in DOM order sequential navigation
22:29:10 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: do we need to say anything in the HTML spec since anchor is alreadu focusable
22:29:26 <cabanier> ed: I'm unsure. aspects in the model are not defined
22:29:39 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: yes, that's the browser context
22:29:53 <cabanier> …. if we need to go to the html wg we can do that
22:30:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> 5. The HTML5 spec. defines how to process browsing contexts. IOW documents
22:30:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> in a document when it comes to sequential navigation. Do people agree we
22:30:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> can just refer to the HTML5 definition of browsing context? This will also
22:30:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> be important when we embed <iframe>s in and SVG document per the face to
22:30:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> face.
22:30:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> This was the approach I was going to take when adding tabindex.
22:30:44 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: do people agree that we refer to browsing context when we do sequential navigation?
22:30:46 <cabanier> ed:yes
22:30:49 <cabanier> krit: yes
22:31:03 <cabanier> richardschwerdtfeger: ok, we'll refer to HTML5 and go from there
22:31:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakim, bye
22:31:47 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Rich, [IPcaller], ed, cabanier, hober, smfr, dino, krit, +33.9.53.77.aaaa, Tav, +61.2.980.5.aabb, nikos
22:31:47 <Zakim> Zakim has left #svg
22:31:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make minutes
22:31:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-svg-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
22:36:50 <birtles> birtles has joined #svg