15:53:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
15:53:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-irc
15:53:35 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
15:53:41 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
15:53:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:53:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
15:53:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:46 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
15:53:46 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2013
15:54:38 <aphillip> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2013Mar/0012.html
15:54:44 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
15:54:55 <aphillip> rrsagent, set logs world
15:54:59 <aphillip> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:54:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:55:32 <aphillip> zakim, agenda+ Reviews
15:55:32 <Zakim> agendum 1 added
15:55:49 <aphillip> zakim, agenda+ Ruby Use Cases
15:55:49 <Zakim> agendum 2 added
15:56:07 <aphillip> zakim, agenda+ What Time is this Meeting At
15:56:07 <Zakim> agendum 3 added
15:56:21 <aphillip> zakim, agenda+ CSS3-text-decoration skip spaces
15:56:21 <Zakim> agendum 4 added
15:56:35 <aphillip> zakim, agenda+ bidi change proposal
15:56:35 <Zakim> agendum 5 added
15:56:52 <aphillip> zakim, agenda+ Charmod-Norm
15:56:52 <Zakim> agendum 6 added
15:57:42 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
15:57:42 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has not yet started, aphillip
15:57:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, aphillip, fsasaki, r12a, fantasai, trackbot
15:57:57 <David> David has joined #i18n
15:58:51 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
15:58:58 <Zakim> + +1.408.536.aaaa
15:59:03 <Zakim> - +1.408.536.aaaa
15:59:03 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
15:59:03 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.536.aaaa
16:00:10 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has now started
16:00:16 <Zakim> +aphillip
16:00:21 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
16:00:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see aphillip
16:00:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see David, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, fsasaki, r12a, fantasai, trackbot
16:00:34 <aphillip> zakim, agenda?
16:00:34 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
16:00:35 <Zakim> 1. Reviews [from aphillip]
16:00:35 <Zakim> 2. Ruby Use Cases [from aphillip]
16:00:35 <Zakim> 3. What Time is this Meeting At [from aphillip]
16:00:35 <Zakim> 4. CSS3-text-decoration skip spaces [from aphillip]
16:00:36 <Zakim> 5. bidi change proposal [from aphillip]
16:00:36 <Zakim> 6. Charmod-Norm [from aphillip]
16:00:38 <r12a> zakim, dial richard
16:00:39 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:00:39 <Zakim> +Richard.a
16:00:45 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
16:00:58 <Zakim> +??P15
16:01:16 <aphillip> zakim, ??P15 is matial
16:01:16 <Zakim> +matial; got it
16:01:27 <Zakim> +??P30
16:01:55 <Zakim> + +1.617.245.aaaa
16:02:15 <r12a> zakim, who's here?
16:02:15 <Zakim> On the phone I see aphillip, Richard.a, matial, fsasaki (muted), johnC
16:02:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see JcK, David, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, fsasaki, r12a, fantasai, trackbot
16:02:36 <Zakim> + +1.408.536.aabb
16:02:59 <aphillip> zakim, +1.408 is JohnO
16:02:59 <Zakim> +JohnO; got it
16:03:22 <David> It may be a few minutes before I can dial in
16:03:47 <matial> matial has joined #i18n
16:03:58 <Zakim> +Norbert
16:04:10 <Norbert> Norbert has joined #i18n
16:05:01 <aphillip> Topic: Action Items
16:06:08 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
16:06:30 <joconner> joconner has joined #i18n
16:06:51 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
16:08:00 <aphillip> close action-189
16:08:00 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-189 Announce ruby note will be published as note, last call for next week.
16:08:09 <DavidClarke> DavidClarke has joined #i18n
16:08:36 <aphillip> close action-190
16:08:37 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-190 Write to contacts and cjk list about bopomofo handling as base and as ruby text.
16:09:47 <aharon> aharon has joined #i18n
16:10:00 <aphillip> close action-191
16:10:00 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-191 Request comments on wiki page about bidi change proposal to robin, bidi list, winter list, and html.
16:10:34 <aphillip> close action-192
16:10:34 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-192 Solicit from input Unicode on skipping spaces in css3 text-decoration specifically ethiopic word sep, etc..
16:10:40 <Najib-ma> Najib-ma has joined #i18n
16:10:45 <aphillip> close action-193
16:10:45 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-193 Supply CSS3 with pictures of skip-ink for tibetan or khmer.
16:10:53 <Zakim> + +44.141.888.aacc
16:10:56 <aphillip> Topic: Info Share
16:10:59 <Zakim> + +972.5.424.5aadd
16:11:00 <aphillip> zakim, +44 is David
16:11:00 <Zakim> +David; got it
16:11:13 <aphillip> zakim, +972 is aharon
16:11:13 <Zakim> +aharon; got it
16:11:17 <r12a> zakim, who's here?
16:11:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see aphillip, Richard.a, matial (muted), fsasaki (muted), JcK, JohnO, Norbert, David, aharon
16:11:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see Najib-ma, aharon, DavidClarke, joconner, Norbert, matial, JcK, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, fsasaki, r12a, fantasai, trackbot
16:11:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:11:27 <aharon> zakim, mute me
16:11:27 <Zakim> aharon should now be muted
16:11:34 <aphillip> Norbert: ecmascript
16:11:36 <Norbert> http://norbertlindenberg.com/ecmascript/intl.html
16:11:45 <r12a> agenda?
16:11:52 <aphillip> Norbert: published frist draft of second edition
16:11:56 <aphillip> ... adds time zone ids
16:12:01 <aphillip> ... from tzinfo
16:12:13 <aphillip> ... can specify language for casing
16:12:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:12:46 <Norbert> s/frist/first
16:12:49 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 1
16:12:49 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Reviews" taken up [from aphillip]
16:13:02 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar
16:13:43 <aphillip> [ http://www.w3.org/2012/sysapps/drafts/contacts-manager-api ]
16:14:05 <aphillip> norbert volunteers to shepherd :-)
16:15:02 <aphillip> HTML+RDFa and XInclude 1.1: no comments
16:16:12 <aphillip> zakim, take up 3
16:16:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up 3', aphillip
16:16:19 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 3
16:16:19 <Zakim> agendum 3. "What Time is this Meeting At" taken up [from aphillip]
16:16:28 <aphillip> http://www.doodle.com/nzks8wivyfuk84mw#table
16:16:55 <aharon> zakim, unmute me
16:16:55 <Zakim> aharon should no longer be muted
16:17:27 <matial> zakim, unmute me
16:17:27 <Zakim> matial was not muted, matial
16:22:19 <aphillip> JcK: stick to 1600Z and check for whom this is a problem?
16:22:32 <aphillip> action: addison: poll for heartburn for keeping call at 1600Z
16:22:32 <trackbot> Created ACTION-194 - Poll for heartburn for keeping call at 1600Z [on Addison Phillips - due 2013-03-14].
16:24:47 <aphillip> s/1600/1500/
16:25:27 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 5
16:25:27 <Zakim> agendum 5. "bidi change proposal" taken up [from aphillip]
16:26:02 <aphillip> richard: didn't move wiki forward because of discussion of
16:26:11 <aphillip> ... IE in stds mode is doing isolation
16:26:27 <aphillip> ... so use case of "old hacks" might not be important?
16:26:32 <aphillip> ... so crucial question
16:26:43 <aphillip> ... simplest way to is change semantics of @dir
16:26:50 <aphillip> ... and that woudl be easiest
16:26:54 <aphillip> ...want to discuss that
16:27:09 <DavidClarke> s/woudl/would/
16:27:12 <aphillip> aharon: agree with your analysis
16:27:18 <aphillip> ... did more IE testing
16:27:30 <aphillip> ... if non-stds mode, does weird stuff
16:27:36 <aphillip> ... if span with @dir
16:27:43 <aphillip> ... isolates stuff following
16:27:47 <aphillip> ... but not preceeding it
16:27:51 <aphillip> ... so weird
16:27:58 <aphillip> ... can't say IE has isolation
16:28:06 <JcK> Having had that scheduling discussion, regrets for next week -- IETF meeting conflicts with anything after 1130 UT :-(
16:28:08 <aphillip> ... but can say that currently a lack of interop
16:28:54 <aphillip> richard: do to decide?
16:29:03 <aphillip> s/do/how/
16:29:06 <aphillip> richard: three scenarios
16:29:17 <aphillip> ... ask WG?
16:29:39 <aphillip> Norbert: anyone rely on embedding
16:29:55 <aphillip> ... and how does it work with IE
16:29:59 <aphillip> ... if no one relies on
16:30:02 <aphillip> ... then can change
16:30:12 <aphillip> richard: aharon had examples of it though
16:30:26 <aphillip> aharon: actually found examples in pages designed for IE7
16:30:45 <aphillip> ... those pages would have been broken by change in IE
16:31:06 <aphillip> richard: how many more fixed than broken by change??
16:31:19 <aphillip> ... so maybe some uplift too
16:31:32 <aphillip> aharon: probably right thing to to
16:31:43 <aphillip> ... but don't believe my opinion will carry day
16:32:36 <aphillip> richard: two items docuemented
16:32:40 <aphillip> ... new @diration
16:32:42 <Norbert> zakim, who is noisy?
16:32:45 <aphillip> .... add two values
16:32:53 <Zakim> Norbert, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: matial (4%), Richard.a (85%)
16:32:54 <aphillip> s/diration/direction/
16:33:02 <aphillip> ... and third would be change semantics
16:33:35 <aphillip> matial: limit damage with semantics change
16:33:43 <aharon_> aharon_ has joined #i18n
16:33:45 <aphillip> ... by giving guidance for using RLM etc
16:34:16 <aphillip> ... using same markup, so to get same behavior you'd add enclosing RLM/LRM
16:34:43 <aphillip> aharon: new version of article gives that as guidance now
16:35:01 <matial> zakim, mute me
16:35:01 <Zakim> matial should now be muted
16:35:22 <aphillip> richard: need to put in front of HTML and CSS
16:35:39 <aphillip> ... need to edit wiki first
16:35:49 <aphillip> ... won't get to for two weeks
16:36:44 <aphillip> chair: to look at in two weeks
16:36:59 <aphillip> aharon: one other thing
16:37:03 <aphillip> ... new attribute values
16:37:12 <aphillip> ... dependent on using css hack for transition
16:37:18 <aphillip> ... css-hack doesn't work
16:37:21 <aphillip> ... for IE7 and earlier
16:37:24 <aphillip> ... nothing works there
16:38:03 <aphillip> ... totally ignore (and doesn't show css) any @dir with unrecognized values
16:38:13 <aphillip> ... as if @dir=foo is not even there
16:38:31 <aphillip> richard: please send me examples for wiki
16:38:34 <aphillip> ... so can be complete
16:38:36 <aphillip> aharon: okay
16:38:41 <aphillip> agenda?
16:38:56 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 2
16:38:56 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Ruby Use Cases" taken up [from aphillip]
16:39:04 <r12a> ACTION: Aharon to send Richard notes about IE behaviour wrt direction
16:39:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-195 - Send Richard notes about IE behaviour wrt direction [on Aharon Lanin - due 2013-03-14].
16:39:11 <aharon> zakim, mute me
16:39:12 <Zakim> aharon should now be muted
16:39:14 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/docs/ruby/Overview2.html#usecased
16:39:25 <aphillip> richard: started making edits
16:39:30 <aphillip> ... more I thought about it...
16:39:41 <aphillip> ... combining new thing with old thing
16:39:53 <aphillip> ... hypothetical cases were pretty historical
16:40:00 <aphillip> ... didn't think I'd have time to fix it
16:40:06 <aphillip> ... but deciced to plunge ahead
16:40:14 <aphillip> ... much better document (and shorter too)
16:40:25 <aphillip> ... so have rewritten a lot (most text touched)
16:40:31 <aphillip> ... so back to needing to review
16:40:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:40:41 <aphillip> ... need wide review
16:41:05 <aphillip> addison: think this is useful
16:41:20 <aphillip> Norbert: markup?
16:41:55 <aphillip> richard: space issue
16:42:09 <aphillip> ... everyone pretty prints their html for examples
16:42:23 <aphillip> ... this causes spurious spaces
16:43:53 <aphillip> Consider the sequence: がつgatsu月. There are no spaces in the sequence. You don't want to insert one just because the break occurs just before or after "gatsu". However, the opposite case can also exist: "The word 月 appears in this sentence." 月 wants spaces around it here. It is the layout context that matters and this cannot be determined strictly from the characters at the line break location.
16:45:53 <aphillip> doesn't work for Thai either
16:46:08 <aphillip> richard: should move away from current html5 (another reason)
16:46:16 <aphillip> ... open/close <rb> tags help
16:46:37 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'drafit minutes', aphillip.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:46:38 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/white-space/results-white-space#wfh
16:46:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:47:11 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/white-space/results-white-space#thai
16:47:22 <RRSAgent> I'm logging.  Sorry, nothing found for 'who is here'
16:47:55 <aphillip> action: richard: request fequest feedback on ruby use cases with an eye towards publishing updated version in two weeks
16:47:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-196 - Request fequest feedback on ruby use cases with an eye towards publishing updated version in two weeks [on Richard Ishida - due 2013-03-14].
16:48:12 <aphillip> s/two weeks from 7 March/
16:48:24 <aphillip> s/two weeks/two weeks from 7 March/
16:48:35 <aphillip> agenda?
16:48:55 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 6
16:48:55 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Charmod-Norm" taken up [from aphillip]
16:49:09 <aphillip> http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/CharmodNormProposal2013
16:49:43 <aphillip> http://inter-locale.com/w3c/charmod-norm-1.1-draft.html
16:54:34 <aphillip> Norbert: add search cases for user text and user interaction with text
16:54:38 <aphillip> ... rather than identifiers, etc.
16:55:26 <aphillip> addison: wouldn't affect content authors and wouldn't affect specs
16:55:36 <aphillip> ... but implementatinos of "find" would be
16:56:57 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
16:58:12 <aphillip> addison: will take css skip spaces next week, will send email with the feedback
16:58:31 <Zakim> -David
16:58:33 <Zakim> -aphillip
16:58:34 <Zakim> -JcK
16:58:34 <matial> Bye
16:58:35 <Zakim> -Norbert
16:58:37 <Zakim> -fsasaki
16:58:42 <Zakim> -aharon
16:58:44 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:58:45 <joconner> joconner has left #i18n
16:58:49 <Zakim> -matial
16:58:52 <r12a> zakim, drop richard
16:58:52 <Zakim> Richard.a is being disconnected
16:58:54 <Zakim> -Richard.a
16:59:12 <aharon> zakim, unmute me
16:59:12 <Zakim> sorry, aharon, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:59:28 <aharon> aharon has left #i18n
16:59:32 <r12a> zakim, drop richard
16:59:32 <Zakim> sorry, r12a, I do not see a party named 'richard'
16:59:36 <aphillip> present: Addison, Richard, Felix, John O, John K, Mati, Aharon, David
16:59:40 <r12a> zakim, drop all
16:59:41 <Zakim> sorry, r12a, I do not see a party named 'all'
16:59:46 <aphillip> zakim, who is here?
16:59:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see JohnO
16:59:47 <Zakim> On IRC I see Najib-ma, Norbert, Zakim, RRSAgent, aphillip, fsasaki, r12a, fantasai, trackbot
16:59:59 <aphillip> zakim, drop JohnO
16:59:59 <Zakim> JohnO is being disconnected
17:00:00 <Zakim> I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM has ended
17:00:00 <Zakim> Attendees were aphillip, Richard.a, matial, fsasaki, +1.617.245.aaaa, JcK, +1.408.536.aabb, JohnO, Norbert, +44.141.888.aacc, +972.5.424.5aadd, David, aharon
17:13:57 <fsasaki> fsasaki has left #i18n
17:25:24 <r12a> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:25:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-i18n-minutes.html r12a