22:00:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
22:00:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/06-indie-ui-irc
22:00:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
22:00:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #indie-ui
22:00:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
22:00:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM already started
22:00:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
22:00:25 <trackbot> Date: 06 March 2013
22:00:43 <Zakim> +??P5
22:01:25 <MichaelC> zakim, Ipcaller is Andy_Heath
22:01:25 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
22:01:28 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
22:01:29 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P3 is Jason_White
22:01:29 <Zakim> +Jason_White; got it
22:01:34 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P4 is Janina_Sajka
22:01:34 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
22:01:34 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
22:01:34 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
22:01:34 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Update
22:01:34 <janina> agenda+ Upcoming Teleconference Time Shifts
22:01:34 <janina> agenda+ Adjusting Our Fortnightly Process
22:01:37 <janina> agenda+ Reconsidering Our User Context Process
22:01:39 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
22:01:42 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
22:01:45 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 20 March at 22:00Z)
22:01:48 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
22:02:23 <Zakim> +[Apple]
22:02:32 <MichaelC> regrets: Rich_Simpson
22:02:36 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple has jcraig
22:02:36 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
22:03:44 <MichaelC> regrets+ Ted_O´Connor
22:03:56 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0000.html
22:05:23 <jcraig> scribe: jcraig
22:05:50 <jcraig> JS: Topic: Editor Update
22:05:59 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
22:05:59 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Editor's Update" taken up [from janina]
22:06:38 <jasonjgw> There's an open issue regarding specs not loading properly in Chrome browsers.
22:07:49 <jasonjgw> Branch oddities have occurred in PF hg repository and may occur if anyone pushes changes without pulling the latest revisions first.
22:08:05 <jcraig> jc: updated specs for Chrome not loading http scripts
22:08:28 <jcraig> jc: have not been able to update User Context spec yet
22:08:56 <jcraig> jc: have local edits for additional actions in Events spec; hope to have those in today or tomorrow.
22:09:50 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
22:09:55 <jcraig> jc: Make sure, if you're pushing to the Mercurial repo, be sure to pull first, otherwise, we get weird branching problems.
22:10:09 <jcraig> Topic: Telecon
22:11:06 <jcraig> js: Daylight Savings Time is this weekend. Next 4 meetings (8 weeks) are at 21:00 UTC Zulu
22:12:04 <jcraig> js: EU and OZ times will be different. US times will still be 5pm Eastern, 2pm Pacific
22:12:17 <jcraig> s/OZ/AU/
22:12:55 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
22:12:55 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
22:12:56 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:12:56 <Zakim> 2. Upcoming Teleconference Time Shifts [from janina]
22:12:57 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
22:12:58 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Upcoming Teleconference Time Shifts" taken up [from janina]
22:13:01 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
22:13:01 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
22:13:02 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
22:13:02 <Zakim> 3. Adjusting Our Fortnightly Process [from janina]
22:13:10 <jcraig> js: looking to improve efficiency/productivity of the group email and telecon process
22:13:12 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
22:13:12 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Adjusting Our Fortnightly Process" taken up [from janina]
22:14:05 <jcraig> js: weekly telecon time is one consideration
22:14:23 <jcraig> js: trying to avoid the flurry of activity only right before telecons
22:15:03 <jcraig> js: will call for agenda earlier, and post a survey of topics (scribe may have missed some details here?)
22:15:18 <jcraig> q+
22:15:32 <janina>  ack jas
22:16:05 <jcraig> jw: from experience, when WCAG WG ran surveys, we found it very useful, particularly with controversial items
22:16:06 <janina> ack jc
22:17:01 <MichaelC> q+
22:17:17 <janina> ack m
22:17:56 <MichaelC> ack me
22:19:07 <jcraig> jc: regular list contributions come with more regular edits; also think the survey and earlier agenda is a good idea.
22:19:33 <jcraig> mc: agreed. trying to stimulate discussion of topics not necessarily tied to spec edits
22:20:02 <jcraig> jc: such as privacy; user expectations of what to share, when, and how.
22:20:20 <jasonjgw> James suggests that the timing of discussions (tending to occur shortly before meetings) is not caused by the bi-weekly meeting arrangements.
22:20:23 <jcraig> mc: checking for issue on privacy; no issues exists
22:20:27 <MichaelC> issue: Privacy in User Context
22:20:27 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-10 - Privacy in User Context; please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/issues/10/edit>.
22:20:31 <jasonjgw> He agrees with the survey and agenda proposals.
22:20:42 <MichaelC> trackbot, associate issue-10 with product-3
22:20:42 <trackbot> ISSUE-10 (Privacy in User Context) associated with PRODUCT-3.
22:20:56 <jasonjgw> There are larger topics that could productively be discussed on list, e.g., privacy issues raised by User Contexts.
22:21:13 <jcraig> js: no objection to earlier agenda and use of surveys to organize meeting efficiency
22:21:17 <jasonjgw> Discussion of grounding this  topic in open issues on the issue list.
22:21:56 <jcraig> js: will call for agenda items on wednesday or thursday of week prior to call
22:22:07 <jcraig> s/will/i will/
22:22:44 <jcraig> jw: surveys tend to be most useful with existing controversies
22:23:05 <jcraig> mc: will also open survey items to other suggestions
22:23:38 <jcraig> RESOLUTION: Janina and Michael will try the early agenda and survey approach
22:23:57 <jcraig> agenda
22:24:01 <jcraig> agenda?
22:24:42 <jcraig> zakim, next item
22:24:42 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Reconsidering Our User Context Process" taken up [from janina]
22:25:25 <jcraig> js: CSUN takeaway is that we need this as soon as possible
22:26:48 <jcraig> js: ~ Events was more concrete. WG understanding of User Context draft is more subjective. Need to coalesce WG opinion.
22:27:07 <jcraig> js: need more use cases for User Context module.
22:27:37 <jcraig> s/Events was/Events module is/
22:27:42 <MichaelC> q+ to volunteer to take actions
22:28:35 <jcraig> js: could have an action to clean up the use case wiki, so that the read is not repetitive. Cooper volunteered.
22:30:16 <jcraig> mc: Some requirements were around things like tree controls. e.g. "command to open a tree branch" (expad request)
22:30:26 <jcraig> s/expad/expand/
22:31:12 <jcraig> mc: some are accessibility requirements PFWG should work on in other technologies.
22:31:40 <jcraig> mc: in order to more clearly focus the IndieUI work
22:33:00 <jasonjgw> James agrees that use cases need to be collapsed/reorganized as discussed.
22:33:32 <jasonjgw> Some use cases are covered by events not yet in the draft and should be consolidated in the requirements.
22:33:48 <janina> q?
22:33:53 <janina> ack m
22:33:53 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to volunteer to take actions
22:34:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
22:34:52 <jcraig> mc: need to sort and reorg Use Case requirements, and identify related requirements.
22:34:53 <MichaelC> zakim, Ipcaller is Andy_Heath
22:34:53 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
22:35:56 <jcraig> jw: Identifying use cases for User Context would help codify WG understanding regarding this module
22:36:51 <jcraig> jw: seems most useful for cases that are most controversial
22:37:35 <janina> q?
22:37:39 <janina> ack ja
22:37:43 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
22:37:48 <jcraig> js: I don't think they were controversial in that anyone disagreed they were useful, just regarding the technical and UI implementation.
22:37:55 <MichaelC> q+
22:38:06 <Zakim> +Rich
22:38:29 <jcraig> jw: I suggest that some (all?) of the more easily specified prefs are already covered by other specs.
22:38:31 <jcraig> q+
22:39:06 <jcraig> ah: I think all of these are necessary and not covered by existing technologies
22:40:07 <jcraig> js: privacy issues need use cases, for example less private at work or with your bank than with forums, or general sites
22:40:23 <janina> q?
22:40:29 <janina> ack m
22:40:30 <jcraig> action: cooper to consolidate use cases
22:40:30 <trackbot> Created ACTION-42 - Consolidate use cases [on Michael Cooper - due 2013-03-13].
22:41:12 <jcraig> mc: later step will be thinking about which use cases are most relevant to User Context
22:42:24 <MichaelC> ack me
22:42:25 <jcraig> mc: first pass of use case cleanup will be about structure more than content
22:42:43 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
22:42:52 <MichaelC> ack j
22:42:53 <jcraig> q-
22:43:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
22:43:58 <MichaelC> zakim, IPcaller is Andy_Heath
22:43:58 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
22:46:11 <jcraig> jc: mentioned captions as an example of one that is not fully covered by other technologies, including WebVTT
22:46:34 <jcraig> js: WebVTT is competing with TTML
22:46:56 <jcraig> js: CVA will probably go TTML; may have to support both.
22:47:21 <jcraig> agenda?
22:48:15 <jcraig> js: something about key/value pairs?
22:48:59 <MichaelC> q+ to volunteer to reformat the proposal from Andy / Rich as key value pairs - as a proposed structure only to show how it would look, not comments on content
22:49:05 <jcraig> js: to improve efficiency of spec prod, need to also prioritize each use case and feature
22:50:10 <jcraig> mc: andy and rich's proposal included properties and multiple values
22:50:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
22:50:49 <jcraig> mc: could be more understandable as simpler key/value pairs
22:51:02 <janina> q?
22:52:01 <janina> ack m
22:52:01 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to volunteer to reformat the proposal from Andy / Rich as key value pairs - as a proposed structure only to show how it would look, not comments on content
22:52:40 <MichaelC> action: cooper to reformat the proposal from Andy / Rich as key value pairs
22:52:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Reformat the proposal from Andy / Rich as key value pairs [on Michael Cooper - due 2013-03-13].
22:53:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
22:53:13 <jcraig> rs: i like the idea of key/value pairs
22:53:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> q-
22:53:30 <janina> ack r
22:53:55 <jcraig> ah: will make comments on IRC if call drops out
22:54:14 <jcraig> ah: can't do "influencing" with key value pairs?
22:54:50 <jcraig> s/"influencing" with key value pairs?/inferencing with key value pairs/
22:55:25 <jcraig> ah: discussing inferencing main value versus fallback values or lower priority values
22:55:52 <jcraig> mc: I'll take a pass at showing how that can be done with key/value pairs
22:56:46 <jcraig> js: CSUN consensus "what do we do until we can use IndieUI"
22:56:52 <jcraig> q+
22:57:22 <jcraig> q+ to make sure people are not promoting IndieUI as the spec that will solve everything
22:57:36 <jcraig> ack j
22:57:36 <Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to make sure people are not promoting IndieUI as the spec that will solve everything
22:58:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
23:01:01 <MichaelC> ack r
23:01:26 <Zakim> +Cooper
23:01:45 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
23:01:46 <jcraig> ack j
23:02:23 <jcraig> jw: web app authors will have to implement
23:03:16 <jcraig> q?
23:03:54 <Zakim> -Rich
23:03:55 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
23:03:55 <Zakim> -[Apple]
23:03:57 <Zakim> -Jason_White
23:04:00 <Zakim> -Cooper
23:04:02 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
23:04:02 <Zakim> Attendees were Michael_Cooper, Andy_Heath, Jason_White, Janina_Sajka, jcraig, Rich, Cooper
23:04:03 <jcraig> jcraig has left #indie-ui
23:15:12 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
23:15:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/06-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
23:15:49 <MichaelC> trackbot, end meeting
23:15:49 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
23:15:49 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
23:15:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
23:15:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/06-indie-ui-minutes.html trackbot
23:15:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
23:15:58 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/06-indie-ui-actions.rdf :
23:15:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cooper to consolidate use cases [1]
23:15:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/06-indie-ui-irc#T22-40-30
23:15:58 <RRSAgent> ACTION: cooper to reformat the proposal from Andy / Rich as key value pairs [2]
23:15:58 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/03/06-indie-ui-irc#T22-52-40