IRC log of mlw-lt on 2013-02-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:53:42 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
14:53:53 [Zakim]
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14:55:00 [fsasaki]
meeting: MLW-LT WG
14:55:02 [fsasaki]
chair: felix
14:55:20 [fsasaki]
14:56:22 [fsasaki]
regrets: christian, clemens, dom
14:56:39 [fsasaki]
topic: roll call
14:56:42 [fsasaki]
14:56:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fsasaki
14:59:23 [joerg]
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14:59:38 [joerg]
present+ joerg
14:59:49 [fsasaki]
present+ felix
15:00:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fsasaki
15:00:52 [fsasaki]
present+ kfritsche
15:00:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fsasaki
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present+ Ankit
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15:01:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fsasaki
15:02:00 [Des]
present+ Des
15:02:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fsasaki
15:02:30 [Pedro]
present+ Pedro
15:03:12 [omstefanov]
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15:03:21 [omstefanov]
present+ omstefanov
15:03:22 [Jirka]
present+ Jirka
15:03:48 [Yves_]
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15:03:58 [Yves_]
present+ Yves
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present+ shaunm
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15:05:37 [Marcis]
present+ Marcis
15:05:56 [fsasaki]
scribe: shaunm
15:06:20 [fsasaki]
topic: agenda
15:06:20 [fsasaki]
15:06:43 [fsasaki]
topic: High level usage scenario doc publication
15:07:05 [fsasaki]
15:07:24 [fsasaki]
- having Christian editing the doc until next Monday - vote for publication 6 March call - publication 8 March
15:07:38 [pnietoca]
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15:07:41 [fsasaki]
next monday = 4 march
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15:07:49 [pnietoca]
present+ pnietoca
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15:08:01 [leroy]
present+ leroy
15:08:19 [shaunm]
fsasaki: publishing march 8. last date before the workshop
15:08:27 [mdelolmo]
present+ mdelolmo
15:08:37 [shaunm]
fsasaki: Please go through your use cases
15:08:42 [fsasaki]
topic: HTML ITS default behaviour
15:08:56 [Milan]
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15:09:11 [Giuseppe]
present + Giuseppe
15:09:22 [Milan]
present+ Milan
15:09:38 [Giuseppe]
present+ Giuseppe
15:09:44 [shaunm]
Yves_: there is discrepancy in behavior between different data categories in HTML
15:10:04 [shaunm]
Yves_: when an author marks up a document because of different behavior in different tools
15:10:30 [shaunm]
Yves_: we don't specify things like the <b> element should be withinText
15:11:13 [fsasaki]
ITS 1.0 global rules are at
15:11:14 [shaunm]
Yves_: have a set of global rules for HTML that implementors must use
15:11:59 [shaunm]
Yves_: if you don't implement global rules, this won't work. instead have default attributes
15:12:08 [fsasaki]
default implementation proposal at
15:12:10 [shaunm]
Yves_: implementation of such defaults is probably difficult
15:12:18 [tadej]
present+ tadej
15:12:32 [fsasaki]
15:13:41 [shaunm]
Yves_: implementation is not a problem for okapi
15:14:21 [fsasaki]
15:15:12 [shaunm]
pnietoca: some MT systems hardcode translation of some attributes
15:15:16 [fsasaki]
15:16:32 [shaunm]
Yves_: currently html translate affects attribute and its:translate does not
15:17:28 [fsasaki]
15:17:51 [shaunm]
kfritsche: in our implementation, we use defaults
15:18:22 [Marcis]
Will there be a list of defaults somewhere specified? We are currently adding Elements Within Text rules within HTML documents...
15:18:58 [pnietoca]
15:19:17 [fsasaki]
ack pnietoca
15:19:43 [shaunm]
pnietoca: we use global rules for translate, for instance.
15:20:03 [shaunm]
pnietoca: if some people don't use it, you have to hardcode which attributes to translate
15:20:53 [shaunm]
kfritsche: is this the proposal to change the default values in table 8.1?
15:21:14 [shaunm]
Yves_: proposal is to have in the html specification information on defaults
15:21:39 [shaunm]
fsasaki: or we could provide a global rules file
15:21:50 [shaunm]
fsasaki: I was proposing the defaults for people only doing its locally
15:22:23 [shaunm]
Yves_: there's a discrepancy between defaults and global rules because of overriding
15:23:15 [shaunm]
Yves_: people who don't implement ITS globally just have to make sure the behavior with defaults matches what it would be with default values
15:24:11 [fsasaki]
shaun: issue of not knowing what you are overriding with local attributes - that is an issue with any format right?
15:24:13 [fsasaki]
yves: yes
15:24:23 [fsasaki]
shaun: who are the implementers who don't do global rules?
15:24:36 [fsasaki]
15:25:04 [fsasaki]
it seems everybody of the implementers currently on the table, do global rules
15:25:20 [fsasaki]
karl: new implementers might do local markup only - we should be aware of that
15:26:16 [fsasaki]
shaun: there is no implementation difficulty for me either way
15:26:56 [shaunm]
fsasaki: propose not to close this issue too fast
15:27:28 [shaunm]
fsasaki: other people not on the call might have different opinions
15:28:16 [shaunm]
Yves_: implementors could look at their implementations to see how difficult defaults versus global rules is
15:28:54 [daveL]
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15:28:56 [shaunm]
fsasaki: give implementors a week, come back to issue next wednesday
15:28:57 [daveL]
present+ davelewis
15:29:05 [daveL]
apologies for joining late
15:30:12 [fsasaki]
15:31:10 [fsasaki]
see draft + example files here
15:31:16 [shaunm]
tadej: no major contents changes. sent a draft to the mailing list
15:31:39 [shaunm]
tadej: we are dropping granularity levels, renaming to text analysis, clarified some
15:33:32 [fsasaki]
action: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at into the its2 draft
15:33:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-451 - Edit issue-68 proposal at into the its2 draft [on Christian Lieske - due 2013-03-04].
15:33:41 [fsasaki]
15:35:27 [shaunm]
omstefanov: all the file names in the test suite still refer to disambiguation
15:35:41 [shaunm]
tadej: should we rename all the files?
15:36:00 [shaunm]
leroy: yes, and move to directories named for the category
15:36:51 [fsasaki]
topic: Conformance type
15:37:15 [fsasaki]
15:37:39 [shaunm]
fsasaki: needs input from Phil. Phil not present today
15:37:50 [fsasaki]
topic: XLIFF mapping
15:39:02 [shaunm]
daveL: xliff round-trip examples for rome help use work through some issues
15:39:58 [shaunm]
daveL: we need separate discussions on how best to present that as best practices. don't spend time on that now. maybe in rome
15:40:41 [shaunm]
Yves_: while discussing terminology, we realized when you tag something in xliff, we don't have a way to mark it up with ITS in the original document
15:40:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fsasaki
15:41:39 [Marcis]
A question: if we add mark-up to XLIFF, should we use the mrk or its:span annotation?
15:42:11 [shaunm]
daveL: in XLIFF we can add things after authoring time; don't have local markup for these in ITS
15:43:03 [Yves_]
to marcis: <mrk> (you can't have <its:span> in XLIFF)
15:45:39 [shaunm]
Yves_: you can add ITS attributes to <mrk>. some are redundant with XLIFF attributes
15:46:08 [fsasaki]
15:47:34 [shaunm]
daveL: three use cases: mapping from source format to XLIFF, mapping from XLIFF to target format, marking up XLIFF to be consumed in XLIFF in another process
15:47:49 [shaunm]
daveL: ideally have the same markup in all those cases, but might not be possible
15:50:41 [fsasaki]
topic: Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS Ontology
15:51:17 [fsasaki]
15:52:55 [shaunm]
fsasaki: don't require normalization in other technologies. propose to close issue
15:53:37 [fsasaki]
15:53:44 [fsasaki]
15:54:43 [shaunm]
daveL: expanded that out of example in NIF
15:55:24 [shaunm]
daveL: took a Relax NG schema and went through data categories to see which could be used in RDF and NIF
15:55:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fsasaki
15:55:46 [shaunm]
daveL: appreciate feedback
15:56:10 [shaunm]
daveL: haven't figured out what we need to do with annotators ref. works out in provenance setting, but maybe not NIF
15:56:37 [shaunm]
daveL: problems where we've introduced idea that order has temporal relationship
15:58:33 [fsasaki]
topic: AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep
15:58:48 [fsasaki]
15:59:18 [shaunm]
fsasaki: have a call to prepare for rome meeting. please fill in doodle poll
16:01:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate fsasaki
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